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Question for Joel (Page 2)
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 2006-01-17 7:22 PM in reply to: #326175 |
 8763       Boulder, Colorado |  Subject: RE: Question for JoelI think it's right for the right kind of person, yes. I am very particular with what I give my athletes - all my plans are custom. Some people will get walk/run - other won't. There is a lot that goes into if I am for it or not. I have had success using it with my athletes so for some, it's a good method to use, yes. |
| 2006-01-17 7:46 PM in reply to: #325243 |
Pro 3870 Virginia Beach, VA | Subject: RE: Question for Joel 2:45 with a bunch of 30sec walk breaks...DAMN! Let's see...I'm doing my mile repeats for Boston @ 6:16 with 60sec recoveries. If I could do that for the entire race and cut my recoveries down to 30sec I'd run ~2:56. I think I'd rather just hold a steady 6:30 pace and run 2:50  |
| 2006-01-17 9:33 PM in reply to: #326186 |
| 8763 Boulder, Colorado | Subject: RE: Question for Joel I know, I know. I thought the same thing - there is something to clearing the legs out. I may try it in my next IM. |
| 2006-01-18 5:42 AM in reply to: #325915 |
Expert 1070 North Carolina | Subject: RE: Question for Joel Hmm, that explains it. Now I am wondering if it is it better to go out of your zone and get up the hill and then recover back into your zone or barely turn the peddles at a low cadence and stay in your zone (if cars are behind you they will hate this)? TH3_FRB - 2006-01-17 2:58 PM That's easy...you ever been to VA Beach? Does "pancake flat" mean anything to you? I have to be very creative in order to find any possible way to do hill work without driving an hour+. Usually it's no big deal but as I start to train for Boston I need to do hill work so I'll either be on the treadmill or doing repeats back and forth over a bridge by my house...either way it's going to be Uber boring. BeCivil - 2006-01-17 7:30 AMHow did you stay in your low heart rate zones while bike riding outside (road biking on hills and mountain biking over rolling terrain) and keep your cadence up when you first started your base training? No problem on the trainer and I am sure as you get more base this issue goes away. While running you can just walk the hills but what about the bike? Edited by BeCivil 2006-01-18 5:42 AM |
| 2006-01-18 8:18 AM in reply to: #325994 |
| Expert 842 | Subject: RE: Question for Joel In comparing LT HR zones I wasn't implying similar speed but rather that the test I did seemed to provide a meaningful result. Everyone is different but if Joel's zone 1 was 20 bpm off from mine and we are of a similar age and ahtletic backgroound (I was a x-country and track guy as well) then I would have to rethink the testing that I did. Now I just have to work at being as fast Mark |
| 2006-01-18 8:32 AM in reply to: #325243 |
Expert 623 Wye Mills, MD | Subject: RE: Question for Joel While we are on the subject... How hard, RPE-wise or other description, should the upper end of Z2 be? I recently did a 5 mile tempo run and over the last 3 miles (~20 min) my avg HR was 166, which gives zones of : Z1: 110-141 Z2: 142-151 Z3: 152-158 Z4: 159-165 Z5: 166-184 A HR of 151 is difficult - beyond 70% effort for me. Do these results seem high for a 42 y/o? |
| 2006-01-18 8:52 AM in reply to: #326346 |
| 8763 Boulder, Colorado | Subject: RE: Question for Joel When you climb a hill its ok to go into Z3, just don't do it for a long period of time - keep it to about 5 minutes. Carry that momentum over the top of the hill and yes, you can coast, soft pedal and recover on the back side. Makes perfect sense. |
| 2006-01-18 8:56 AM in reply to: #326428 |
| 8763 Boulder, Colorado | Subject: RE: Question for Joel Stone - 2006-01-18 6:18 AM In comparing LT HR zones I wasn't implying similar speed but rather that the test I did seemed to provide a meaningful result. Everyone is different but if Joel's zone 1 was 20 bpm off from mine and we are of a similar age and ahtletic backgroound (I was a x-country and track guy as well) then I would have to rethink the testing that I did. Now I just have to work at being as fast >>>If you and an 80 yr old had the same LT, you would have the same training zones. it wouldn't matter if he were a fisherman his whole life and you were a world calss runner. Similar background has nothing do with your LT - it has to do with current fitness level and genetics - so you can't control Joel's current fitness level (unless you send him a box of Krispy Kreme's every Friday) or his genetics. So - compare yourself now, to where you were before - that is all we can do in terms of LT VO2 etc. Mark |
| 2006-01-18 9:01 AM in reply to: #326452 |
| 8763 Boulder, Colorado | Subject: RE: Question for Joel wyecrab - 2006-01-18 6:32 AM While we are on the subject... How hard, RPE-wise or other description, should the upper end of Z2 be? I recently did a 5 mile tempo run and over the last 3 miles (~20 min) my avg HR was 166, Z1: 110-141 Z2: 142-151 Z3: 152-158 Z4: 159-165 Z5: 166-184 A HR of 151 is difficult - beyond 70% effort for me. >>>There is no high/low or anything like that - read the HR thread - please. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... |
| 2006-01-18 9:53 AM in reply to: #326490 |
Expert 623 Wye Mills, MD | Subject: RE: Question for Joel "Was this a max effort over those 20'?" 110% "70% effort of what?" Perceived effort My point/question is that the below description, from D3, does not reflect my perception of 142-151 bpm. And that is, there's nothing easy about it. I'm just wondering if I can run high enough in Z5 for a relatively short period of time that it biases the field trial results upward or if some other factors may influence the results (I know - do it again, get the blood test). 220-age may not be an accurate method to calculate training zones, but age does play a part in how many bpm you can get out of a heart. Believe me, if this field trial is accurate I'm happy to have the extra beats below LT. My curiosity lies in my perception of effort and what other people's results/perceptions are. Zone 2 – This is an easy effort but not quite as easy as Zone 1. This may be twenty-five beats lower then LT. |
| 2006-01-18 9:58 AM in reply to: #326532 |
| 8763 Boulder, Colorado | Subject: RE: Question for Joel Ok - I'll give you 100%. No such thing as 110% - you only have 100% to give. Now - I completely understand you - if your LT is 166, then go for 25 beats below - or 141- try that for 1 month, go back and test again. Let's see how that works ok? High Z2 is hard for ME to maintain too, it's not supposed to be easy, trust me. But once you can work yourself up to that High Z2 and train in that zone day after day, you'll be one fit dude. |
| 2006-01-18 10:12 AM in reply to: #326541 |
Expert 623 Wye Mills, MD | Subject: RE: Question for Joel Okay, it makes sense that I need to work up to that level. I've actually been using 141 on my long runs, trying to stay close to that threshold, and seen significant improvements in my pace over about a month and a half. Thanks for the feedback, Mike. |
| 2006-01-18 10:53 AM in reply to: #325311 |
Master 2033 | Subject: RE: Question for Joel mikericci - 2006-01-16 6:42 PM Brad - you are right on the money - just keep it rollin' - day in, day out! Have you lost weight in the time that you improved as well? PS - you can throw in some Z3 everyone once in a while, especially on the hills! I have come down from 242 to 229 as of today... I did get to the upper end of Z-3 last night on a new big hill, it really kicked my butt, but I think thats what I need now. Those big hills add strength! |
| 2006-01-18 11:01 AM in reply to: #326611 |
| 8763 Boulder, Colorado | Subject: RE: Question for Joel piggpen35 - 2006-01-18 8:53 AM mikericci - 2006-01-16 6:42 PM Brad - you are right on the money - just keep it rollin' - day in, day out! Have you lost weight in the time that you improved as well? PS - you can throw in some Z3 everyone once in a while, especially on the hills! I have come down from 242 to 229 as of today... I did get to the upper end of Z-3 last night on a new big hill, it really kicked my butt, but I think thats what I need now. Those big hills add strength! Absolutely - strength makes you fast. |
| 2006-01-18 11:15 AM in reply to: #326556 |
Expert 1070 North Carolina | Subject: RE: Question for Joel Before I got my HRM I am pretty sure that I never ran under zone 3. wyecrab - 2006-01-18 11:12 AM Okay, it makes sense that I need to work up to that level. I've actually been using 141 on my long runs, trying to stay close to that threshold, and seen significant improvements in my pace over about a month and a half. Thanks for the feedback, Mike. |
| 2006-01-18 12:41 PM in reply to: #325243 |
Pro 3870 Virginia Beach, VA | Subject: RE: Question for Joel For me personally, the bottom half of Z2 is easy. My breathing is completely under control and I could hold that pace for hours. The top end of Z2 starts to feel like a bit of work but I still wouldn't call it hard. I don't train extensively at that level so I only know what it feels like to do 30min at the end of a long run there. For reference I ran my marathon primarily in upper Z2 for the first 16 miles and it felt relatively easy. After that the distance and pace began to catch up with me and my HR gradually increased over the last 10 miles while I held a very consistent pace. |
| 2006-01-18 1:42 PM in reply to: #326754 |
Expert 623 Wye Mills, MD | Subject: RE: Question for Joel TH3_FRB - 2006-01-18 12:41 PM For me personally, the bottom half of Z2 is easy. My breathing is completely under control and I could hold that pace for hours. The top end of Z2 starts to feel like a bit of work but I still wouldn't call it hard. I don't train extensively at that level so I only know what it feels like to do 30min at the end of a long run there. For reference I ran my marathon primarily in upper Z2 for the first 16 miles and it felt relatively easy. After that the distance and pace began to catch up with me and my HR gradually increased over the last 10 miles while I held a very consistent pace. That was helpful!!! HR zone during a marathon was a question that's been bothering me for a while. Thanks. |
| 2006-01-18 7:32 PM in reply to: #326820 |
Pro 3870 Virginia Beach, VA | Subject: RE: Question for Joel I didn't have any specific plan to run at that HR. My plan was based on pace...that's just where my HR ended up for the pace I wanted. wyecrab - 2006-01-18 2:42 PM That was helpful!!! HR zone during a marathon was a question that's been bothering me for a while. Thanks. |
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