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 2014-12-01 4:44 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Champion  7821     Brooklyn, NY |  Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal...Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz.  Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. I agree with you 100% that a society that seeks to be tolerant should be welcoming of different traditions. I grew up celebrating both holidays, and even though we're Jewish in my home, I still get a Christmas tree because I like them. Presents that we get from our Christian friends go under the Christmas tree and we open them on Christmas. Presents from our family and our Jewish friends get opened on Hanukah. It stretches the season out and it's fun. And did I mention that Christmas trees are pretty and they smell good? Listen, if you're a non-Christian in this country, you're reminded quite often of your "minority status", and that's cool with me. I'm not expecting a giant menorah to be built at Rockefeller Center, nor do I expect the Rockettes to perform a second Hanukah-themed show where they dress as the Maccabis. I'm not advocating for neutering holidays at all-- just for being inclusive where it's warranted. If an office party isn't specifically intended to honor the Christian holiday, why define it as such when calling it a Holiday Party is more appropriate anyway? All you have to do is walk around NYC, which is a very culturally diverse city, and a liberal one to boot, and you can see Christmas decorations on practically every building. If there's a War on Christmas, I can tell you unequivocally that Christmas is winning. |
| 2014-12-02 12:28 AM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Elite 6387  | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by powerman I believe every state has their own environmental oversight agency. The Federal EPA was founded as the regulatory arm to carry out laws passed by Congress. So that would certainly be within the scope of the constitutional authority of the executive branch to set up a department to carry out laws passed by the Congress. Now there is certainly an argument that the laws passed by Congress and the regulations drawn up and enforce by the EPA are over reaching and unconstitutional. But the existence of the EPA is well within the constitution. Originally posted by Jackemy1 I didn't write the Constitution so I didn't say it. Those that you heard it from are provide you wrong information. Below are the related text; Article I Section 8 The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; ....To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;..... Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. I have read it a couple times.... While a provision is in the Constitution for raising armies, it was also pretty clear our Founders did not believe in standing armies, or becoming the next military empire like England. The GOP has a very long history of being isolationists, and did not believe in military intervention. They begrudgingly agreed to enter into WWII. Post WWII, they have done a 180, and the Neo Cons went as far as advocating for a Welfare Globe ushered in by U.S. intervention and nation building. I'm not advocating we disband our military, but that too is a long long way from what was started out. I certainly do not agree with being the World Police, which is exactly what we are. The EPA is another good example. I for one happen to like clean air and water. The EPA is not designated by the Constitution, so therefore it should go to the states. But that is a Federal sort of thing to take care of. There are other examples that could work with the States, but many can't. Plenty want to abolish them for that very reason.
I don't disagree with any of that. There are those that do. I don't agree with them, but they love to talk about anything that wasn't written in the Constitution should be left to the states. Faulty logic for sure, but plenty believe it. |
| 2014-12-02 7:24 AM in reply to: powerman |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by powerman I believe every state has their own environmental oversight agency. The Federal EPA was founded as the regulatory arm to carry out laws passed by Congress. So that would certainly be within the scope of the constitutional authority of the executive branch to set up a department to carry out laws passed by the Congress. Now there is certainly an argument that the laws passed by Congress and the regulations drawn up and enforce by the EPA are over reaching and unconstitutional. But the existence of the EPA is well within the constitution. Originally posted by Jackemy1 I didn't write the Constitution so I didn't say it. Those that you heard it from are provide you wrong information. Below are the related text; Article I Section 8 The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; ....To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;..... Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. I have read it a couple times.... While a provision is in the Constitution for raising armies, it was also pretty clear our Founders did not believe in standing armies, or becoming the next military empire like England. The GOP has a very long history of being isolationists, and did not believe in military intervention. They begrudgingly agreed to enter into WWII. Post WWII, they have done a 180, and the Neo Cons went as far as advocating for a Welfare Globe ushered in by U.S. intervention and nation building. I'm not advocating we disband our military, but that too is a long long way from what was started out. I certainly do not agree with being the World Police, which is exactly what we are. The EPA is another good example. I for one happen to like clean air and water. The EPA is not designated by the Constitution, so therefore it should go to the states. But that is a Federal sort of thing to take care of. There are other examples that could work with the States, but many can't. Plenty want to abolish them for that very reason.
I don't disagree with any of that. There are those that do. I don't agree with them, but they love to talk about anything that wasn't written in the Constitution should be left to the states. Faulty logic for sure, but plenty believe it. You know usually "conservatives" fault liberals for having a lack of civic understanding but there are plenty on my side that are pretty misinformed as well. |
| 2014-12-02 8:07 AM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Jackemy1 You know usually "conservatives" fault liberals for having a lack of civic understanding but there are plenty on my side that are pretty misinformed as well. I think it is the age we live in. Before we would have never heard them unless it was at a coffee shop. Now they get a mike. |
| 2014-12-02 8:10 AM in reply to: ChemNerd23 |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by ChemNerd23 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. |
| 2014-12-02 11:39 AM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Welcome to Christmas in a Vacuum. Fa la la, la la la, la la la... That's a straw man if I ever heard one. Acknowleging other less-popular faiths, or being "faith agnostic" for the sake of being inclusive does not constitute "repressing and expunging the dominant religion". The two aren't mutually exclusive at all. (xmas.jpg) Attachments ---------------- xmas.jpg (17KB - 5 downloads) |
| 2014-12-02 12:13 PM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. |
| 2014-12-02 12:43 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. You need to eat more meat! Happy Chuck Roast.. |
| 2014-12-02 12:47 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. You need to eat more meat! Happy Chuck Roast.. No, I'm starting the war on the meat eating religion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY Edited by dmiller5 2014-12-02 12:52 PM |
| 2014-12-02 1:18 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Member 465 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. As I said, every society has a dominant religion which guides their beliefs, principles and culture. The Western world is Judeo-Christian and North Korea's is Dear Leader. I am sorry to ruin your day but as Jmk-Brooklyn so beautifully illustrated with his photo of Rockefeller plaza, Judeo-Christian values are already forced down your throat and will be for the foreseeable future. My point is that there are those that say you can remove religion from the public square. I argue that it will never happen even in your ideal world. |
| 2014-12-02 4:42 PM in reply to: Jackemy1 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. As I said, every society has a dominant religion which guides their beliefs, principles and culture. The Western world is Judeo-Christian and North Korea's is Dear Leader. I am sorry to ruin your day but as Jmk-Brooklyn so beautifully illustrated with his photo of Rockefeller plaza, Judeo-Christian values are already forced down your throat and will be for the foreseeable future. My point is that there are those that say you can remove religion from the public square. I argue that it will never happen even in your ideal world. I guess I don't really see it as having it forced down my throat. Having to pass a Christmas tree on the way to the subway isn't compelling me to worship Jesus. What I think it silly, though is the idea that there's a war on organized religion. |
| 2014-12-02 6:54 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by Jackemy1 I guess I don't really see it as having it forced down my throat. Having to pass a Christmas tree on the way to the subway isn't compelling me to worship Jesus. What I think it silly, though is the idea that there's a war on organized religion. Originally posted by dmiller5 As I said, every society has a dominant religion which guides their beliefs, principles and culture. The Western world is Judeo-Christian and North Korea's is Dear Leader. I am sorry to ruin your day but as Jmk-Brooklyn so beautifully illustrated with his photo of Rockefeller plaza, Judeo-Christian values are already forced down your throat and will be for the foreseeable future. My point is that there are those that say you can remove religion from the public square. I argue that it will never happen even in your ideal world. Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. Preach it jmk!!!.........wait........don't preach......uh........Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka!!, uh......don't forget to chew when the tree is being shoved down. I don't get this stuff.....how is there not room for everyone to enjoy whatever there is to enjoy? How does someone feel put off by other's celebration? I like to see people celebrating, it makes me want to join in. What's everyone so upside down about? Edited by Left Brain 2014-12-02 6:54 PM |
| 2014-12-02 7:44 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by Jackemy1 I guess I don't really see it as having it forced down my throat. Having to pass a Christmas tree on the way to the subway isn't compelling me to worship Jesus. What I think it silly, though is the idea that there's a war on organized religion. Originally posted by dmiller5 As I said, every society has a dominant religion which guides their beliefs, principles and culture. The Western world is Judeo-Christian and North Korea's is Dear Leader. I am sorry to ruin your day but as Jmk-Brooklyn so beautifully illustrated with his photo of Rockefeller plaza, Judeo-Christian values are already forced down your throat and will be for the foreseeable future. My point is that there are those that say you can remove religion from the public square. I argue that it will never happen even in your ideal world. Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. Preach it jmk!!!.........wait........don't preach......uh........Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka!!, uh......don't forget to chew when the tree is being shoved down. I don't get this stuff.....how is there not room for everyone to enjoy whatever there is to enjoy? How does someone feel put off by other's celebration? I like to see people celebrating, it makes me want to join in. What's everyone so upside down about? because saying happy holidays offends the christians, its christmas time and only christmas time |
| 2014-12-03 8:27 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by Jackemy1 I guess I don't really see it as having it forced down my throat. Having to pass a Christmas tree on the way to the subway isn't compelling me to worship Jesus. What I think it silly, though is the idea that there's a war on organized religion. Originally posted by dmiller5 As I said, every society has a dominant religion which guides their beliefs, principles and culture. The Western world is Judeo-Christian and North Korea's is Dear Leader. I am sorry to ruin your day but as Jmk-Brooklyn so beautifully illustrated with his photo of Rockefeller plaza, Judeo-Christian values are already forced down your throat and will be for the foreseeable future. My point is that there are those that say you can remove religion from the public square. I argue that it will never happen even in your ideal world. Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. I get what you're saying. I don't necessarily think there's a "war" per se', but I think both secular and faith groups of various flavors are pushing against each other in several venues. For example, there are faith groups trying to push religion into the public square where it doesn't necessarily belong and there are also secular groups pushing to remove all references to any religion in every public place. So, each side may see it as a "war" because the other side is pushing against their agenda. Now, as for the masses. I agree completely that the vast majority of people are completely tolerant and understand that there are many different religions and people celebrate the holiday season in different ways. |
| 2014-12-03 8:35 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by Jackemy1 I guess I don't really see it as having it forced down my throat. Having to pass a Christmas tree on the way to the subway isn't compelling me to worship Jesus. What I think it silly, though is the idea that there's a war on organized religion. Originally posted by dmiller5 As I said, every society has a dominant religion which guides their beliefs, principles and culture. The Western world is Judeo-Christian and North Korea's is Dear Leader. I am sorry to ruin your day but as Jmk-Brooklyn so beautifully illustrated with his photo of Rockefeller plaza, Judeo-Christian values are already forced down your throat and will be for the foreseeable future. My point is that there are those that say you can remove religion from the public square. I argue that it will never happen even in your ideal world. Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. Preach it jmk!!!.........wait........don't preach......uh........Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka!!, uh......don't forget to chew when the tree is being shoved down. I don't get this stuff.....how is there not room for everyone to enjoy whatever there is to enjoy? How does someone feel put off by other's celebration? I like to see people celebrating, it makes me want to join in. What's everyone so upside down about? because saying happy holidays offends the christians, its christmas time and only christmas time I don't get that either. (but I know you are right) People say "happy holidays" to me all the time, I say "merry christmas" back to them....I never give it a thought. I say "merry christmas" to people and some of them respond, "happy holidays". Again, I never give it a thought. I think it's all much ado about nothing. Edited by Left Brain 2014-12-03 8:35 AM |
| 2014-12-03 9:36 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by Jackemy1 I guess I don't really see it as having it forced down my throat. Having to pass a Christmas tree on the way to the subway isn't compelling me to worship Jesus. What I think it silly, though is the idea that there's a war on organized religion. Originally posted by dmiller5 As I said, every society has a dominant religion which guides their beliefs, principles and culture. The Western world is Judeo-Christian and North Korea's is Dear Leader. I am sorry to ruin your day but as Jmk-Brooklyn so beautifully illustrated with his photo of Rockefeller plaza, Judeo-Christian values are already forced down your throat and will be for the foreseeable future. My point is that there are those that say you can remove religion from the public square. I argue that it will never happen even in your ideal world. Originally posted by Jackemy1 Originally posted by ChemNerd23 If religion is a gun, I think question is whose finger on the trigger do you want? Mankind just so happens to be a creature of faith. We are also social creatures and as a result we interject our belief systems and core morale principles into the societies we create. Therefore societies will always have religion and there will always be religion in the public square. Whether that religion is based in god, dear leader, or change in average temperature...oh the blasphemy..... , it will be there. So we can try to suppress and expunge our current dominate religions in the public square because it is offensive, or it is not inclusive, or in the name of diversity or whatever harmed ideal that you think justifies your cause. But in the end we are just creating a vacuum that will be filled by some other dominate religion. And I think if history serves right, the alternatives aren't very pleasant. Originally posted by tuwood So there is a funny quote out there about religion in our culture: Religion is like a "gun" (insert what you will lol). It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down our throats. Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it. "Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents. I tend to agree with you CD. Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth. Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one. Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property. I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature, that are getting forced out of the public space. For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night. There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them. For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures. mankind just so happens to be a curious creature. a creature that needs explanations for how things work. So religions were created to explain what we could not, or to exert control over others. I don't see anywhere in the constitution that it says we all have to listen to made up stories for months on end, or allow someone else made up stories to be dominant over anything. Go celebrate your holidays with your family however you choose, but stop fighting over forcing it upon everyone else. its getting old.
happy holidays. Preach it jmk!!!.........wait........don't preach......uh........Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka!!, uh......don't forget to chew when the tree is being shoved down. I don't get this stuff.....how is there not room for everyone to enjoy whatever there is to enjoy? How does someone feel put off by other's celebration? I like to see people celebrating, it makes me want to join in. What's everyone so upside down about? because saying happy holidays offends the christians, its christmas time and only christmas time I don't get that either. (but I know you are right) People say "happy holidays" to me all the time, I say "merry christmas" back to them....I never give it a thought. I say "merry christmas" to people and some of them respond, "happy holidays". Again, I never give it a thought. I think it's all much ado about nothing. I usually say back whatever someone says to me. If they say "Merry Christmas", I say the same back to them. When I initiate it, I usually say "Happy Holidays", unless I know for certain what someone's religion is. Keep it simple, I say. |
| 2014-12-03 10:04 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... right. it would be all fine if people would just appreciate that saying happy holidays, or merry Christmas, or happy festivus (for the rest of us!) is just someone being nice/polite/friendly. the problem is when people get in a tizzy because they want to be a PIA. See: O'Reilly, Bill. I think it is mostly because people are so self centered they can't see anything other than their own viewpoint and belief system. (and just to clarify I was being sarcastic and inflammatory earlier to make a point for y'all) even if that point is rooted in truth |
| 2014-12-03 10:11 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by dmiller5 right. it would be all fine if people would just appreciate that saying happy holidays, or merry Christmas, or happy festivus (for the rest of us!) is just someone being nice/polite/friendly. the problem is when people get in a tizzy because they want to be a PIA. See: O'Reilly, Bill. I think it is mostly because people are so self centered they can't see anything other than their own viewpoint and belief system. (and just to clarify I was being sarcastic and inflammatory earlier to make a point for y'all) even if that point is rooted in truth What the hell is festivus?? |
| 2014-12-03 10:13 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 right. it would be all fine if people would just appreciate that saying happy holidays, or merry Christmas, or happy festivus (for the rest of us!) is just someone being nice/polite/friendly. the problem is when people get in a tizzy because they want to be a PIA. See: O'Reilly, Bill. I think it is mostly because people are so self centered they can't see anything other than their own viewpoint and belief system. (and just to clarify I was being sarcastic and inflammatory earlier to make a point for y'all) even if that point is rooted in truth What the hell is festivus?? What's Festivus!!! Oh boy, are you in for a treat.
First, we will begin with the Airing of Grievances!!! |
| 2014-12-03 10:14 AM in reply to: powerman |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 right. it would be all fine if people would just appreciate that saying happy holidays, or merry Christmas, or happy festivus (for the rest of us!) is just someone being nice/polite/friendly. the problem is when people get in a tizzy because they want to be a PIA. See: O'Reilly, Bill. I think it is mostly because people are so self centered they can't see anything other than their own viewpoint and belief system. (and just to clarify I was being sarcastic and inflammatory earlier to make a point for y'all) even if that point is rooted in truth What the hell is festivus?? What's Festivus!!! Oh boy, are you in for a treat.
First, we will begin with the Airing of Grievances!!! bwaaaaahahahahaha!!! |
| 2014-12-03 10:19 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Deep in the Heart of Texas | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 right. it would be all fine if people would just appreciate that saying happy holidays, or merry Christmas, or happy festivus (for the rest of us!) is just someone being nice/polite/friendly. the problem is when people get in a tizzy because they want to be a PIA. See: O'Reilly, Bill. I think it is mostly because people are so self centered they can't see anything other than their own viewpoint and belief system. (and just to clarify I was being sarcastic and inflammatory earlier to make a point for y'all) even if that point is rooted in truth What the hell is festivus?? What's Festivus!!! Oh boy, are you in for a treat.
First, we will begin with the Airing of Grievances!!! bwaaaaahahahahaha!!! Followed by the Feats of Strength. |
| 2014-12-03 10:22 AM in reply to: Hook'em |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 right. it would be all fine if people would just appreciate that saying happy holidays, or merry Christmas, or happy festivus (for the rest of us!) is just someone being nice/polite/friendly. the problem is when people get in a tizzy because they want to be a PIA. See: O'Reilly, Bill. I think it is mostly because people are so self centered they can't see anything other than their own viewpoint and belief system. (and just to clarify I was being sarcastic and inflammatory earlier to make a point for y'all) even if that point is rooted in truth What the hell is festivus?? What's Festivus!!! Oh boy, are you in for a treat.
First, we will begin with the Airing of Grievances!!! bwaaaaahahahahaha!!! Followed by the Feats of Strength. And my favorite..... A list of all the ways you people have disappointed me. |
| 2014-12-03 10:27 AM in reply to: powerman |
| Deep in the Heart of Texas | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Hook'em Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by dmiller5 right. it would be all fine if people would just appreciate that saying happy holidays, or merry Christmas, or happy festivus (for the rest of us!) is just someone being nice/polite/friendly. the problem is when people get in a tizzy because they want to be a PIA. See: O'Reilly, Bill. I think it is mostly because people are so self centered they can't see anything other than their own viewpoint and belief system. (and just to clarify I was being sarcastic and inflammatory earlier to make a point for y'all) even if that point is rooted in truth What the hell is festivus?? What's Festivus!!! Oh boy, are you in for a treat.
First, we will begin with the Airing of Grievances!!! bwaaaaahahahahaha!!! Followed by the Feats of Strength. And my favorite..... A list of all the ways you people have disappointed me. I'm pretty sure that is the Airing of Grievances. |
| 2014-12-03 11:33 AM in reply to: Hook'em |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... 2 years ago I had a donation made in my name to the human fund. I got a card and everything about it. |
| 2014-12-03 12:04 PM in reply to: chirunner134 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Are you a Liberal... So I googled festivus and see it was a seinfeld invention.......no wonder I'm clueless. I have never seen a seinfeld episode.....I don't watch TV. Merry Christmas! |
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