Iran nuclear agreement (Page 2)

Some metaphorically and some literally.  hehe

I truly do try to understand both sides of the discussion, but I can't for the life of me find much of anything describing why Obama is pushing so hard on this.  I found a CNN article earlier today that said it was because of his "legacy" and he just wants to get some/any agreement in place.  I thought that was a pretty pathetic excuse so there has to be something more.  Anyone know?

This is a REALLY good deal for Iran. Geez. 

could have something to do with the Russian forces in syria

And Iran is something like 95% Shia (in contrast to ISIS).

I also suspect that behind closed doors, the U.S. is trying very hard to dissuade Saudi Arabia from developing their own bomb.

From what I have read this deal puts BILLIONS of dollars into Iran's coffers and opens up the channels for them to buy conventional weapons from Russia and China, not to mention their nuclear ambitions......where in the hell does anybody in their right mind think that money is going??  All you have to do is listen to what those maniacs running Iran are saying.  I agree with Cheney on this.....this is madness.  WTF???

I saw another article last night (can't find the link now) that based on a lot of the language this "deal" is crossing into treaty territory.  By law, any treaty with another country needs 2/3 approval from the congress.  Not that the rules apply to Washington anymore, but I found it interesting.

or we're just tired of stupid

In my other life I hated you.

a big baby?

How do you see this playing out?  If no nuclear deal-  Iran no longer dismantles their nuclear program.  We have no inspectors, we don't remove 15,000 of their modern centrifuges, or their weapons grade plutonium.  We don't track their nuclear engineers.  Arak is up and running.  Within a year, Iran would have 25,000 modern centrifuges, and its breakout time would shrink to mere weeks and the sanctions against it would crumble anyway. Who does this serve?  Who benefits from 'no deal'?

We've been there before.  In 2005, three European powers rejected a nuclear deal with Iran after two years of negotiations. Hassan Rouhani, now president (elected because he was a moderate), was then Iran’s chief negotiator. After the talks collapsed, the Islamic republic ramped up centrifuge production, going from fewer than 200 installed to 20,000 today. It also built up more than 16,000 pounds of enriched uranium gas and accelerated work on the heavy-water reactor at Arak, which provides a path to a plutonium bomb.

You see- treating people like enemies- guarantees that they will fester as enemies.  Obama is structuring this as a chance for a future peace.  A way forward for the people of Iran to not be treated as pariah's in the world.  Yes- they have their hardliners (and we have ours), but as stated above- they also have a modern, educated youth that doesn't want any part of those old conservative ideologues, who hang onto power by painting Israel and the US as the great Satans.  It's the most childish way to lead a country- putting fear into the uneducated.

And if you really cared about a middle east country supporting terrorism, you would have stopped driving your SUV decades ago.  Saudi Arabia is the largest supporter of jihadist groups... by far.

How would Ronald Reagan have handled Iran... oh right, he would have sold them weapons to finance an illegal war.  At least we made money off that deal.

I have seen nothing to make me trust Iran, other then to trust them when they say they want the destruction of Israel and will continue to support terrorism in the region.  So in my mind Iran is heading for the Bomb either way.  Or at the very least, they will stockpile conventional weapons from Russia and China or be a conduit for supplying those weapons to terrorist organizations hell bent on the destruction of Israel.  We are tied to Israel......they have been our staunch allies, and will always be.  I don't think we can walk out on that.  Soooooo.......no deal and let Israel deal with Iran with our support......or make the deal and still have to come to Israel's aid in a war that only escalates from here.  It's a no win situation with Iran.....they have said they want the destruction of Israel and there is no reason to believe they won't try to carry out that goal.  To that end, no, I don't want to negotiate with Iran.......in fact, fork them.  They are a major catalyst for the ongoing problems in the Middle East and will continue down that road.  Iran only wants peace on their terms.......and peace to them means the destruction of Israel and the US.  We just handed them a means to that end.  I was good with the sanctions and even ramping them up to a point where the people of Iran rise up and overthrow the lunatics who run that country now.

If you are my neighbor and you tell me that you want to kill my family, I don't hand you a shotgun.

Oh...and what would Reagan have done?  He would have supplied Iraq instead of attacking them. Unfortunately, we've blown that bridge up.

We don't trust them.  They don't trust us.  the agreement is not based on trust.  Some of their radicals say they intend to wipe Israel of the face of the earth.  Some of our radicals (i.e. many of our political leaders from the crazy party), say they want to bomb Iran.  Funny thing is- the guys doing the saber rattling on both sides... they ain't fighting and dying.  They're both just using it to gain political power by creating an enemy. (please- you're smart enough to see this)

Without a doubt they'll be building up their conventional forces.  Russia is already talking deals with Iran.  But- you must understand, that this is going to happen anyway.  Our European friends were doing good business with Iran until 2012 and enacted the sanctions to pressure Iran into this deal.  It worked.  they got the deal, once the nuclear program is dismantled, and we can prove it, the sanctions get lifted.  i.e- they got what they wanted, with or without the US, this is gonna' happen.   Plus, we have not taken our military option off of the table.  It's still there.  Except with the deal, we have a chance that they won't be developing nuclear weapons.  Without the deal... they're building a bomb.  I take the chance and go with the no-bomb opportunity.

One of the strong arguments that Kerry used with Iran was that, even if you do build a bomb... you can never use it.  The day you use it, is the day your country gets wiped off the earth.  You may be right- in that it's a no win situation. But without the deal, it's a definite lose.  With the deal- there's a chance at a more peaceful future.  it will take a decade or more, but opinions do evolve with time, and good leadership.  Rouhani is a moderate.  If he can cut a deal to open up his economy, he gains support with the moderates in Iran for building the economy.  The "$150B" in trade- yeah, some of it may go towards terrorism groups, but probably nothing compared to what the Saudi's have been tossing in.  Plus- they've got ISIS to fight and people to keep happy.  Rouhani wants to stay in power, and his base is not the hard liners- they are his adversaries.  So, he is motivated to make this work for his country.  Iranians are not monolithic evil doers.  But- they have a strong nationalistic spirit.  So- you want war?  just back them into a corner tight enough, and you'll have your war.

The logic is that delaying them is a good thing.  Who knows, maybe this will even somewhat undermine the hardliners who hate the U.S. so much.  And if all this is crap, so what?  Iran can violate this deal and we're left with exactly the same alternative we have now: war.  They know it, we know it.  The only difference with "no deal" is that they can basically have a bomb sooner than we can react, if you believe the rumblings from our intel.

Netanyahu would prefer war now.  But I guarantee you, even if the U.S. was prepared to jump into that, you'd have an unbelievable mess.  ISIS would suddenly have less pressure on them.  Putin would have a field day doing whatever the hell he wants now that our attention is diverted.  Probably same for China.

I don't think I'm buying much of that.  I'm definitely not buying the idea that a political party in this country is trying to gain power by creating an enemy......at least not with Iran.  They chose us.  We have been content to lead the charge for sanctions against them, and they were working.  I think you have it exactly backwards.....we didn't push Iran into a corner, they pushed us.  And our idea of getting out of that corner is to make a deal with the devil.  It's not saber rattling on their end when they are the major backer of Hamas and Hezbollah.  It is what it is, a constant push against our biggest ally in the region.....a push to eliminate them.

Obama is the only one using Iran for political "gain"......and he bullied his way to get enough support so his veto would not be overridden.  He owns this one alone.

Not exactly-He owns it with the rest of the entire WORLDS Superpowers.  Who, BTW, also think this is the best step forward.   Maybe we should resign ourselves to the facts that we're mostly just mediocre athletes and NOT completely versed in the intricate details of this agreement.  There are really, really smart people from across the globe who think this is a good preventative measure.  I'm inclined to believe them.  

 But... if Iran falls out of line.  We have ways to fix that, too.  

I'm alright with that......but I'm not alright with Iran.  I suppose it's because I was in the Marine Corps when they took over our Embassy and our citizens hostage....I would have gladly went to war back then, for no political gain. 

It wasn't really my Father's or my Grandfather's Marine Corps though.......Carter made sure of that.