Crime and punishment (Page 2)

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by chirunner134 Tony, this video is for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuctitle: Don't Talk to Police. Pretty interesting viewing. I also seen even enough stupid people at check points were if you talked to police for about 1 minute you can move about your day. Being kind of a dick its you in trouble. So I guess talk to the police sometimes.

Seen this many times, and it was mandatory viewing for all of my kids prior to them getting the keys to their car.  There's a handful of other Civil Liberties ones I have them watch that role play out several scenarios.

My oldest had a funny incident where he went to visit a friend at school and arrived a few minutes before the last bell went off.  He just walked in to hang out in the lunch area to meet his friend, but the school security guard stopped him and told him to go back out to his car.  He walked out and sat on a bench near the parking lot to wait for his friend there and the school resource officer (uniformed officer) came out screaming and yelling at him about if he'd been asked to go to his car.  Being very well informed of his rights he exercised his 5th amendment protection with the officer because he wasn't sure if there was some rule or regulation he violated.  He was respectful and polite, but refused to answer the question and the officer went full on emo against him screaming and yelling and caused quite a scene.  My son asked if he was being detained and walked away with the cop still screaming at him.  He was genuinely fearful after the event, but I simply asked him if he got arrested and his answer was no, so we called it a success.

Told him I was proud of him, but that probably wasn't the best battle to pick because it was pretty obvious he wasn't doing anything illegal.  lol

Seems pretty clear a school official said he couldn't be on the campus during school hours and asked him to wait in the car, but your son didn't want to follow his instruction.

How is this a success? It all could have been avoided

Originally posted by jford2309

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by chirunner134 Tony, this video is for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuctitle: Don't Talk to Police. Pretty interesting viewing. I also seen even enough stupid people at check points were if you talked to police for about 1 minute you can move about your day. Being kind of a dick its you in trouble. So I guess talk to the police sometimes.

Seen this many times, and it was mandatory viewing for all of my kids prior to them getting the keys to their car.  There's a handful of other Civil Liberties ones I have them watch that role play out several scenarios.

My oldest had a funny incident where he went to visit a friend at school and arrived a few minutes before the last bell went off.  He just walked in to hang out in the lunch area to meet his friend, but the school security guard stopped him and told him to go back out to his car.  He walked out and sat on a bench near the parking lot to wait for his friend there and the school resource officer (uniformed officer) came out screaming and yelling at him about if he'd been asked to go to his car.  Being very well informed of his rights he exercised his 5th amendment protection with the officer because he wasn't sure if there was some rule or regulation he violated.  He was respectful and polite, but refused to answer the question and the officer went full on emo against him screaming and yelling and caused quite a scene.  My son asked if he was being detained and walked away with the cop still screaming at him.  He was genuinely fearful after the event, but I simply asked him if he got arrested and his answer was no, so we called it a success.

Told him I was proud of him, but that probably wasn't the best battle to pick because it was pretty obvious he wasn't doing anything illegal.  lol

 

Seems pretty clear a school official said he couldn't be on the campus during school hours and asked him to wait in the car, but your son didn't want to follow his instruction.

How is this a success? It all could have been avoided

He didn't get arrested or charged.  Success.

He actually misunderstood her and thought he was just supposed to go outside.  It wasn't until the Cop started to interrogate him about her telling him to go to his car that he asserted his rights and realized that she may have.  He didn't know what the rules were or if he violated something so he clammed up, which is completely appropriate.

I pray that you never have to experience talking to the police backfiring on you.  It's not a fun thing.

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jford2309

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by chirunner134 Tony, this video is for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuctitle: Don't Talk to Police. Pretty interesting viewing. I also seen even enough stupid people at check points were if you talked to police for about 1 minute you can move about your day. Being kind of a dick its you in trouble. So I guess talk to the police sometimes.

Seen this many times, and it was mandatory viewing for all of my kids prior to them getting the keys to their car.  There's a handful of other Civil Liberties ones I have them watch that role play out several scenarios.

My oldest had a funny incident where he went to visit a friend at school and arrived a few minutes before the last bell went off.  He just walked in to hang out in the lunch area to meet his friend, but the school security guard stopped him and told him to go back out to his car.  He walked out and sat on a bench near the parking lot to wait for his friend there and the school resource officer (uniformed officer) came out screaming and yelling at him about if he'd been asked to go to his car.  Being very well informed of his rights he exercised his 5th amendment protection with the officer because he wasn't sure if there was some rule or regulation he violated.  He was respectful and polite, but refused to answer the question and the officer went full on emo against him screaming and yelling and caused quite a scene.  My son asked if he was being detained and walked away with the cop still screaming at him.  He was genuinely fearful after the event, but I simply asked him if he got arrested and his answer was no, so we called it a success.

Told him I was proud of him, but that probably wasn't the best battle to pick because it was pretty obvious he wasn't doing anything illegal.  lol

 

Seems pretty clear a school official said he couldn't be on the campus during school hours and asked him to wait in the car, but your son didn't want to follow his instruction.

How is this a success? It all could have been avoided

He didn't get arrested or charged.  Success.

He actually misunderstood her and thought he was just supposed to go outside.  It wasn't until the Cop started to interrogate him about her telling him to go to his car that he asserted his rights and realized that she may have.  He didn't know what the rules were or if he violated something so he clammed up, which is completely appropriate.

I pray that you never have to experience talking to the police backfiring on you.  It's not a fun thing.

It is if you're a criminal and I'm the one doing it.  

I'm interested in hearing more about this. If I ever got pulled over and a cop asked to look in my car, my first instinct would be to say "sure, why not?" because I have nothing to hide and refusing feels like I'd be giving the impression that I DO have something to hide. What reason do you give your kids for having them say no to a search?

If you watch the video posted above, it will make a lot more sense.  The simple truth is that you are betting your life and freedom that you haven't done anything illegal and that there's nothing illegal in your car.  If a friend had a thumb drive with something illegal on it that fell out of his pocket in the seat then you are now in possession of whatever is on that drive.  Remember what I mentioned earlier about intent being removed from laws.  It's about possession, not intent.

Other kids are in their car at times......there is no way to know what was dropped or left in there if you don't check constantly.  I know there have been times in my career where someone has been charged with an item in their car that was not theirs. 

The other reason is, on the chance that they DO have something they shouldn't have, there is no point in going to jail when the Police had no probable cause and just decided they wanted to look in their car.  It's why the constitution protects you under the 4th amendment.

Lastly, as I said earlier, each of your rights in the constitution is there to protect you from an overzealous government.  Those rights should ALWAYS be exercised from my way of thinking.....or you risk losing them.

As for a reason for saying no to the cops......I tell them to tell the cops, "Sir, my dad told me to never let you look in the car, and if you have any questions you can call him, here is his number....."

Can I ask why?  I've heard that before and I think I remember you saying it.  This in a situation where your kid has done nothing.  I agree with you but I can't remember the logic behind it.  Does it revolve around opening up the door to a problem when there isn't one.  Also, say I was pulled over and asked for consent to search my car.  If I have done nothing and am reasonable sure there is nothing in the car why should I say no?  Reasonable sure = 100% before reading this now 99% sure because it was just inspected and out of my control for 2 days. 

Haha, asked and answered.

I believe you should NEVER give up a constitutionally granted right to a govt. official.  Those rights are there for your protection.....use them.

Dad... you forgot to give me your number. 

HAHAHA!!

But....I didn't mean that only from my kids because of my job.  Tell your kids to call you in that situation (talking to everybody here)......it's pretty stressful for kids and they need guidance....it's our job as parents.  The Police don't care about our kids in the same way.

Ok so I just watched that video. Pretty informative for those of you who haven't checked it out, and kinda frightening too. The idea that you can be convicted even if you're innocent just because of a minor flub in what you say is unsettling to say the least.

As you guys know I'm a pretty conservative guy and always had the "if you aren't doing anything wrong" kind of attitude when it comes to the police.

Then in 2006 I had an incident that wasn't necessarily right, but it wasn't illegal and the police were called.  I had absolutely nothing to hide and told them everything they wanted to know.  The whole time they were telling me how I did the right thing in that situation and that they understood completely.  Well, the next thing you know I'm being arrested and charged with a felony offense based almost entirely on my statements.  I spent over two years and close to $100k defending myself and they managed to manipulate what I said to make it look illegal and I was nearly powerless.  The prosecutors took little pieces of my statements and twisted me into the worst human on the planet to the point that I was ultimately found guilty of a lesser included misdemeanor offense by a jury.
Had I not had the money to get a high power attorney, I would likely be sitting in prison yet today.

It was the worst thing that my family and I have ever experienced and still to this day causes us occasional heartache, and had I not talked to the police I would have never had to deal with any of it.

Today I spend a great deal of time fighting and volunteering for people who are going through the system and a big percentage of them would not be dealing with it had they not talked to the police.  Even if you did do something wrong and are guilty of something, you're still always better off if you don't talk to the police.  If you make their entire case for them you have zero leverage to work out a plea deal for a lesser charge or reduced time.