The Inquisition

Pro

15655

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

The BEST part of this hearing going on so long today is that Congresspersons are now asking the witnesses, "this is a headline on X right now....they have written that you said XXXXX, was that your testimony here today?" Witness replies, "I don't believe I said that in my testimony."

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Stop the madness!!!! The Dems, and this impeachment farce, are completely unhinged. The liberal media wants this SO bad they will make chit up........and the truth is.....you couldn't make this crap up if you tried.

I gotta turn this BS off......the hockey game is on. LOL

Edited by Left Brain 2019-11-19 7:04 PM

, Arizona

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

It's a complicated story, there seem to be some extremely important facts missing. Shokin (the prosecutor) was blocking corruption investigations including slow-walking the Burisma investigation which he inherited from the previous prosecutor in 2015... hence the push from the EU for his removal months before Biden and the US intervened. The investigation into Bursma started years before Hunter had joined the board and was for a time period that was unrelated to his tenure with them, to try and link the two is flat out fake news as far as I can see. In May of this year the Ukrainian prosecutor general said Hunter had not violated Ukrainian law, and then his replacement also said there is no evidence of wrongdoing in September and October.

Are you suggesting Hunter was still under some kind of protection by Ukrainian officials even with dangling a $400 million dollar carrot in front of them to make a scene? Because that's literally all it would be, an announcement of an investigation is the only thing Trump cared about getting to release the funds. I really can't believe you are using corruption as a way to justify this... if Trump really thought there was corruption why would he make a contingent offer for the money in the first place? Let alone ask a corrupt country to investigate his political rivals son as if they could be trusted... really??? That's really what you think happened? Ok here is your $400 million, thanks for the announcement, now don't go do anything else corrupt with it! LOL!

Originally posted by Left Brain

Would President Trump benefit from an investigation into Ukrainian corruption that might lead into a problem with Biden getting his son a high paying position THAT HE HAD NO QUALIFICATIONS FOR? Of course it might.

Well, there it is then, the obvious truth. Of course it might. Finally, the only question that really matters during this whole circus.

Edited by Synon 2019-11-19 11:46 PM

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Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

This is where I stand.

Dems accuse Trump of withholding aid to get Ukraine to investigate Biden to “dig up dirt on a political opponent”. That is their entire case for impeachment.

1. Trump was looking for exoneration and/or vindication for the 2016 election. He would have asked this regardless of whether or not Biden was running.

2. The aid was eventually released. Was it released because of the whistleblower? We will never know. Trump has a tendency to make threats as part of his bargaining. Remember him threatening to “shut down the border”? He never did. Remember him threatening huge tariffs on Mexico? He never did. So “investigate Biden or you won’t get aid” could very well be the same thing; Trump using leverage.

I think the Dems biggest problem with the Inquisition is the optics of Schiff sitting there like acting like a “judge” deciding who is out of order and what questions are out of bounds while at the same time he goes off on his partisan rants slamming the President. Secondly, it does not in any way look like a search for the truth. They are not trying fact finding or looking for the truth, they are trying to convince the audience Trump is quilts. So this LOOKS like a trial. But it a very unfair trial with the “judge” being the prosecutor”.

What became crystal clear yesterday is LTC Vindman is the source for the whistleblower. The fact that the Ukrainians would offer a US Army Officer the job as Ukraine Ministry of Defense is a bit disturbing and suggests the Ukrainians at least believed he would be loyal to Ukraine.

BTW, the fact that he is a decorated Army Officer does not mean he is beyond reproach. I was an Army Officer too but certainly not beyond reproach. The media thinks it’s ok to slander and disrespect the President of the United States but you better not question anyone in uniform! BTW, Benedict Arnold was also a highly decorated Army Officer. Just say don’t judge a man by his uniform.

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Pro

15655

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Vindman is every booger eater I ever hated in my life wrapped into a single package. That clown thinks HE makes policy. LOL

Military officer my arse.

Edited by Left Brain 2019-11-20 8:32 AM

Pro

15655

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Originally posted by Synon It's a complicated story, there seem to be some extremely important facts missing. Shokin (the prosecutor) was blocking corruption investigations including slow-walking the Burisma investigation which he inherited from the previous prosecutor in 2015... hence the push from the EU for his removal months before Biden and the US intervened. The investigation into Bursma started years before Hunter had joined the board and was for a time period that was unrelated to his tenure with them, to try and link the two is flat out fake news as far as I can see. In May of this year the Ukrainian prosecutor general said Hunter had not violated Ukrainian law, and then his replacement also said there is no evidence of wrongdoing in September and October. Are you suggesting Hunter was still under some kind of protection by Ukrainian officials even with dangling a $400 million dollar carrot in front of them to make a scene? Because that's literally all it would be, an announcement of an investigation is the only thing Trump cared about getting to release the funds. I really can't believe you are using corruption as a way to justify this... if Trump really thought there was corruption why would he make a contingent offer for the money in the first place? Let alone ask a corrupt country to investigate his political rivals son as if they could be trusted... really??? That's really what you think happened? Ok here is your $400 million, thanks for the announcement, now don't go do anything else corrupt with it! LOL!

Originally posted by Left Brain Would President Trump benefit from an investigation into Ukrainian corruption that might lead into a problem with Biden getting his son a high paying position THAT HE HAD NO QUALIFICATIONS FOR? Of course it might.

Well, there it is then, the obvious truth. Of course it might. Finally, the only question that really matters during this whole circus.

Except it doesn't really matter. Like I said, Trump can't help that Biden is dumb enough to run for President. President Trump has an obligation to investigate corruption in a foreign govt. that we are giving aid to. Whatever comes from that is what it is. If Biden gets hammered over it then who's fault is that? I know, I know......liberals will never take responsibility for anything they do.....but Biden owns it.

This is all a joke. It is the Democrats trying to influence the 2020 election......just like they tried and failed in 2016.

When President Trump is elected to a second term I'm taking a week of vacation just to watch the left run and jump off a cliff. LOL

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Even for a political junkie like me, the hearings are getting increasingly boring! It’s the same thing over and over again. Next witness? Same thing....over and over. Nothing new ever comes out...just differences in opinions from different people.

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Pro

15655

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

In the end.....as with the beginning....Trump is Impeached in the House and found not guilty, removed in the Senate....no matter what was found that was the deal.....nobody's mind is changed and nobody cares... .bring on the election!!

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

I started this thread on the 13th and thought the title of the thread was appropriate. I had not and have not seen anyone call it that since my op....till last night when Rep Nunes gave his closing statement! About time he got around to reading my BT posts.

The impeachment all comes down to military aid being delayed. This is a fact. It was delayed 55 days. The only thing in dispute is the motive. It is certainly legal to delay aid as we learned yesterday aid was also delayed to several other counties also.

So the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove it was delayed purely for political reasons to help Trump in the 2020 election. Dems are gonna need more than “it was my perception or feeling” to prove this. Well at least in a real court they would need this. So look forward to the trial in the Senate when WH lawyers have a chance to cite rules of evidence and strike all the hearsay testimony.

I heard yesterday that a poll in WI showed an 4% drop in support for impeachment since the Inquisition started. This has got to be disconcerting for Dems.

Edited by Rogillio 2019-11-21 6:02 AM

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Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

I keep hearing people extol “career public servants” (government employees) as if working for the government is more noble than working a job in the private sector. You know, those people who drive trucks across the country making sure the shelves at Walmart are stocked. Or the farmer who works 18 hrs a day growing the food we eat. Or the engineers who design the cars we drive. Or the oil field worker making sure you have gas for your car.

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Extreme Veteran

5722

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Originally posted by Rogillio

I keep hearing people extol “career public servants” (government employees) as if working for the government is more noble than working a job in the private sector. You know, those people who drive trucks across the country making sure the shelves at Walmart are stocked. Or the farmer who works 18 hrs a day growing the food we eat. Or the engineers who design the cars we drive. Or the oil field worker making sure you have gas for your car.

I could flip that. There is a perception of "bureaucrats" as cushy 9 to 5 jobs, no rush, no stress...and we keep on using the term "non elected"

I cycle with a couple of guys, some pretty high up, but non elected civil service jobs. They are very passionate about their work. They care about respective departments. Often they have a longer term view and aren't tied to election cycles.

If you have massive policy swings every election you would never achieve anything. Diplomacy is the perfect example. It takes ears to establish. Some can, if not destroy it, hurt it for years to come.

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Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Rogillio

I keep hearing people extol “career public servants” (government employees) as if working for the government is more noble than working a job in the private sector. You know, those people who drive trucks across the country making sure the shelves at Walmart are stocked. Or the farmer who works 18 hrs a day growing the food we eat. Or the engineers who design the cars we drive. Or the oil field worker making sure you have gas for your car.

I could flip that. There is a perception of "bureaucrats" as cushy 9 to 5 jobs, no rush, no stress...and we keep on using the term "non elected"

I cycle with a couple of guys, some pretty high up, but non elected civil service jobs. They are very passionate about their work. They care about respective departments. Often they have a longer term view and aren't tied to election cycles.

If you have massive policy swings every election you would never achieve anything. Diplomacy is the perfect example. It takes ears to establish. Some can, if not destroy it, hurt it for years to come.

Understand. But the last election was precisely about massive policy swings. People have become sick and tired of government as usual. I understand the frustrations of career officials getting frustrated. I worked for Boeing as an engineer on the Space Station program. When Clinton was elected he named a new head of NASA and we completely redesigned the Space Station based on the desires of the new administration. It cost us billion and years of schedule slides.

I also worked on Missile Defense programs and priorities changed every 4 to 8 years based on administration national security policy. I have worked with hundreds of “non-elected government employees” and by no means meant to impugn their work. My comment was about the media extolling these people as if “government servals” give them some sort of elevated status. These people are no better than anyone else.

I would also note it is almost impossible to fire lazy, do nothing government employees. I’ve worked with many that would never survive in the corporate world.

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Extreme Veteran

5722

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Rogillio

I keep hearing people extol “career public servants” (government employees) as if working for the government is more noble than working a job in the private sector. You know, those people who drive trucks across the country making sure the shelves at Walmart are stocked. Or the farmer who works 18 hrs a day growing the food we eat. Or the engineers who design the cars we drive. Or the oil field worker making sure you have gas for your car.

I could flip that. There is a perception of "bureaucrats" as cushy 9 to 5 jobs, no rush, no stress...and we keep on using the term "non elected"

I cycle with a couple of guys, some pretty high up, but non elected civil service jobs. They are very passionate about their work. They care about respective departments. Often they have a longer term view and aren't tied to election cycles.

If you have massive policy swings every election you would never achieve anything. Diplomacy is the perfect example. It takes ears to establish. Some can, if not destroy it, hurt it for years to come.

Understand. But the last election was precisely about massive policy swings. People have become sick and tired of government as usual. I understand the frustrations of career officials getting frustrated. I worked for Boeing as an engineer on the Space Station program. When Clinton was elected he named a new head of NASA and we completely redesigned the Space Station based on the desires of the new administration. It cost us billion and years of schedule slides.

I also worked on Missile Defense programs and priorities changed every 4 to 8 years based on administration national security policy. I have worked with hundreds of “non-elected government employees” and by no means meant to impugn their work. My comment was about the media extolling these people as if “government servals” give them some sort of elevated status. These people are no better than anyone else.

I would also note it is almost impossible to fire lazy, do nothing government employees. I’ve worked with many that would never survive in the corporate world.

We agree.

It would be nice to be able to get an honest assessment of how good a job was done making this change

Edited by marcag 2019-11-21 9:54 AM

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Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

If you mean changes in the government, it has ugly. But change is always painful. There are deep rooted beliefs not to rock the boat. Take moving the embassy in Israel. Both Bush and Obama ran on that but when they got in office and heard from the career “professionals” who advised against it, they reneged. Trump ignored them - and members of both parties - and did what he said he’d do. He did what he ran on. Same with immigration, trade, Paris Climate Accord, Iran nuke deal, tax cuts, Syria, Keystone, energy independence, etc. I’m sure this is why he’s had such a high turnover in his cabinet.

Obama ran on change. Trump was like, “You wanted change? Hold my beer...,”

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Pro

15655

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Spent the last 5 days at the hunt club and intentionally away from cell phone or news of any kind. It appears that the Dems are playing a game of poker that they probably don't have the stomach for.....and it looks like they are beginning to see that they don't have a candidate that can beat President Trump. A second term for Trump will be priceless!! LMAOOOO

Pro

15655

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Even the Left now realizes how stupid Pelosi, Schiff, et al look in this thing. LOL

It's just impossible to make this stuff up. I can't wait to see what these idiots do next to ensure that President Trump is re-elected.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/politics/nancy-pelosi-mitch-mcconnnell/index.html

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

Originally posted by Left Brain

Even the Left now realizes how stupid Pelosi, Schiff, et al look in this thing. LOL

It's just impossible to make this stuff up. I can't wait to see what these idiots do next to ensure that President Trump is re-elected.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/politics/nancy-pelosi-mitch-mcconnnell/index.html

Trumps’s best chance for vindication is re-election.

After all the Mueller/Russia bs, I think even those who think what he allegedly did was improper are willing to give him a pass. Reps need to work on messaging and quit using the Dems “withheld” aid. At best, he delayed aid. Did the aid end up in Baron’s off shore checking account? Nope, the Ukrainians got every single penny!

I think this is going to be very boring at best. Much time will be spent on the rule. E.g. What is the burden of proof? Beyond a reasonable doubt? A preponderance of the evidence? Since there is no crime alleged there is no precedence.

I’m sure political scientists everywhere are trying to figure out the differential calculus for the Senate vote. If Doug Jones votes to convict he is history. Will “they” allow him to vote to acquit? If so, how does that effect the House votes? OTOH, Jones is a dead man walking anyway, so he will likely vote to convict.

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Pro

15655

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

None of this matters one bit. The libs in this country overplayed their hand on day one of Trump's Presidency. This has all been nothing but a charade by a democrat party that is completely fractured, if not permanently broken. At this point, President Trump wins re-election in a landslide. The rest of this is just noise.

Pro

6838

Tejas

Subject: RE: The Inquisition

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