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2006-12-27 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL

Pete10 - 2006-12-26 6:54 PM The toughest part of this whole ordeal is convincing my mom to let me run this thing.

What is the biggest stumbling block in her mind?  I didnt run my first until I was 27 but I used to play tons of bball like yourself along with soccer.  If you plan on keeping a heavy schedule of sports and doing the marathon, you could be pushing it a bit.  You most certainly will not be able to hammer it the week after either as there is some recovery involved.  Maybe take a look at how your schedule fits in with that.  Are you playing basketball during for school now?  She may have some legitimate concerns with your schedule and age.  I had terrible knees at your age and if you are going through any kind of growth spurt the longer distances could hurt a bit.  Just some things to consider.  Not yay or naying it though.  Maybe a half would be a good compromise to start out though too.



2006-12-27 6:38 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
Hey guys how is everyone doing over christmas break? I am doing pretty well so far, but i am having trouble getting motivated to get up in the morning to SWIM!!! Swimming is my least favorite of the three sports. I think that is because it is my biggest weakness. When do you guys swim? Morning.....lunch....after work?? Do you have any suggestions or support besides just suck it up and get out of bed in the morning?

Also, i am new to biking as well and am having problems finding time to bike when it isn't dark outside. I live in an area where it takes a while of riding before i get out of heavy traffic. It's ok when its light out, but it is dark until about 7:30am here and gets dark around 5. I work 7:15 to 5 everyday. Should i get a trainer and ride on that during the week and do my longer rides on the weekend when it is light? Any suggestions on a cheap trainer to get me through my first season?

Thanks guys,
John
2006-12-27 8:04 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
jszat - 2006-12-27 8:02 AM

Pete10 - 2006-12-26 6:54 PM The toughest part of this whole ordeal is convincing my mom to let me run this thing.

What is the biggest stumbling block in her mind?  I didnt run my first until I was 27 but I used to play tons of bball like yourself along with soccer.  If you plan on keeping a heavy schedule of sports and doing the marathon, you could be pushing it a bit.  You most certainly will not be able to hammer it the week after either as there is some recovery involved.  Maybe take a look at how your schedule fits in with that.  Are you playing basketball during for school now?  She may have some legitimate concerns with your schedule and age.  I had terrible knees at your age and if you are going through any kind of growth spurt the longer distances could hurt a bit.  Just some things to consider.  Not yay or naying it though.  Maybe a half would be a good compromise to start out though too.


The biggest stumbling block in her mind is my schedule and school. I get good grades and she doesn't want this interfering. For the first three weeks of training I would have to do some night runs due to practice being right after school.

If I can go through with this I'd start training January 28th and the season ends February 15th. If I run a marathon in the near future this would be the year to do it because Freshman season ends a lot sooner then JV and Varsity. I think my knees are fine. I've been back squatting, front squatting, and wall squating (a** to the grass) for awhile now.
You can check my training log here http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=32640&page=2
2006-12-27 9:42 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL

ballyard7 - 2006-12-27 6:38 PM Hey guys how is everyone doing over christmas break? I am doing pretty well so far, but i am having trouble getting motivated to get up in the morning to SWIM!!! Swimming is my least favorite of the three sports. I think that is because it is my biggest weakness. When do you guys swim? Morning.....lunch....after work?? Do you have any suggestions or support besides just suck it up and get out of bed in the morning? Also, i am new to biking as well and am having problems finding time to bike when it isn't dark outside. I live in an area where it takes a while of riding before i get out of heavy traffic. It's ok when its light out, but it is dark until about 7:30am here and gets dark around 5. I work 7:15 to 5 everyday. Should i get a trainer and ride on that during the week and do my longer rides on the weekend when it is light? Any suggestions on a cheap trainer to get me through my first season? Thanks guys, John

I have the convenience of four kids to force my training to the AM or it usually doesnt get done (except in run ups to longer rides and runs on the weekends), but it helps me to pack everything for the gym the night before so I am not fumbling around wasting workout time.  I have changed my priorities to cutting out most tv in the evening and trying to get to bed at a decent time (still need work on that).  I live on the very edge of civilization between the burbs and rural roads, so generally can get some decent biking in the spring and summer in the early AM.  Just get some blinkers and a good head lamp and you are good to go (oh yeah, vest helps folks see ya too).

RE the swim, I am still reluctant to get in the pool most of the time but will focus on it once my shoulder heals.  I found the best results came about signing up for a race with a swim much longer than I could fudge through.  With about a month before my first half iron I decided it would be a good idea to focus my training on the swim as that whole drowning thing could really ruin my day.  I know how hard the swim can be cuz I really have only been doing this sport for about a year and a half and it took me about a 15 months to get my freestyle somewhat functional.  Read, research, watcher others swim and see what they do.  Just a few thoughts for ya.  Motivationally, you have to decide if it is worth it.

2006-12-29 7:46 AM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
Pete10 - 2006-12-27 8:04 PM
jszat - 2006-12-27 8:02 AM

Pete10 - 2006-12-26 6:54 PM The toughest part of this whole ordeal is convincing my mom to let me run this thing.

What is the biggest stumbling block in her mind?  I didnt run my first until I was 27 but I used to play tons of bball like yourself along with soccer.  If you plan on keeping a heavy schedule of sports and doing the marathon, you could be pushing it a bit.  You most certainly will not be able to hammer it the week after either as there is some recovery involved.  Maybe take a look at how your schedule fits in with that.  Are you playing basketball during for school now?  She may have some legitimate concerns with your schedule and age.  I had terrible knees at your age and if you are going through any kind of growth spurt the longer distances could hurt a bit.  Just some things to consider.  Not yay or naying it though.  Maybe a half would be a good compromise to start out though too.

The biggest stumbling block in her mind is my schedule and school. I get good grades and she doesn't want this interfering. For the first three weeks of training I would have to do some night runs due to practice being right after school. If I can go through with this I'd start training January 28th and the season ends February 15th. If I run a marathon in the near future this would be the year to do it because Freshman season ends a lot sooner then JV and Varsity. I think my knees are fine. I've been back squatting, front squatting, and wall squating (a** to the grass) for awhile now. You can check my training log here http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=32640&page=2[/QUOTE]

I am not so certain that squatting necessarily translates into repetitive stress and pounding that running puts on the knees.  One of my best friends on this site who is a very competitive triathlete and about a 3:10 marathoner used to be hardcore into weights and has had some issues with his knees.  Granted, his workload and intensity on running is way up there, but I know he used to work a ton of legs.  Weight training for endurance events is heavily debated on whether or not it will help you.  Personally, I still add about two days cuz I dont want to whittle away to a stick (and core is actually very important) but few really support heavy weight training as going hand in hand or enhancing training for longer events.  You might want to search the forums for more information on the specific topic though.

2006-12-29 5:57 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
I think weight training is definitely overlooked in endurance sports even though I am a little bias. I think it can definitely help performance.

The last day of registration for the Marathon is May 23rd but won't it fill up before then? When should I register to be sure I can get in. I don't have the money right now.


2006-12-30 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
I did it, and ran for the first time in around 6 months in preparation for the marathon. I want to get a few runs in before my official 18 week training starts in late January. Here's how it went.
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?p=418627#post4186...


Edited by Pete10 2006-12-30 5:11 PM
2007-01-03 8:14 AM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL

Pete10 - 2006-12-29 5:57 PM I think weight training is definitely overlooked in endurance sports even though I am a little bias. I think it can definitely help performance. The last day of registration for the Marathon is May 23rd but won't it fill up before then? When should I register to be sure I can get in. I don't have the money right now.

It seems most of the ones not on the weight training bandwagon are the fast ones.  Look at the average marathon winner or top tri guys.  Very little excess bulk.  I dont really want to be wispy thin (and dont think I could ever get there with my diet and affinity for a few frosty ones from time to time) so throw in weight training.  I dont know that Madison has a cap on participants, but would check into that.  I never recall it being sold out or anything like that, but I ran it in 2000.

2007-01-03 9:17 AM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL

Pete10 - 2006-12-30 3:39 PM I did it, and ran for the first time in around 6 months in preparation for the marathon. I want to get a few runs in before my official 18 week training starts in late January. Here's how it went. http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?p=418627#post4186...

I cant access that forum from work, but took a look at it over the weekend.  Have you done any runs since?  I would say there is no reason not to get a jump start and start running ASAP. 

2007-01-03 2:33 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
Hey all, Have a few questions. Running my first half mary on Sat. 01/06, any good advice? Should I keep running up to that day or take a few days of before the race? I have never run that far before in a race and my main goal is to just finish.I did run the course a few weeks back and it was a bit@h!!! At the 10mile mark the monkey jumped on for a ride, at the 11mile mark the whole damn zoo jumped on. Should I run for 30 min and walk a min.or two, and run for 30 more or run till I drop and then walk? Looking for any help you guys can give me. My lungs are great ,but my legs are avg. at best. I hope to keep it under 2hrs...But we will have to wait and see.Thanks, Steve

Edited by slashwv 2007-01-03 2:35 PM
2007-01-03 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
I would cut down on your mileage this week for sure. 2-3 days before i will just do an easy 2-3 mile run. The day before i either take off or go jog a mile or two just to keep the lactic acid from building up in the legs.

Something i know alot of people do is run until the water station and then walk through that and take in your water and then start running again. That will give you about a 15s break ever couple of miles.

The day before you need to hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. Lots and lots of water and some gatorade. Anyway thats what i do before a long race.


2007-01-03 4:45 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
slashwv - 2007-01-03 2:33 PM

Hey all, Have a few questions. Running my first half mary on Sat. 01/06, any good advice? Should I keep running up to that day or take a few days of before the race? I have never run that far before in a race and my main goal is to just finish.I did run the course a few weeks back and it was a bit@h!!! At the 10mile mark the monkey jumped on for a ride, at the 11mile mark the whole damn zoo jumped on. Should I run for 30 min and walk a min.or two, and run for 30 more or run till I drop and then walk? Looking for any help you guys can give me. My lungs are great ,but my legs are avg. at best. I hope to keep it under 2hrs...But we will have to wait and see.Thanks, Steve


I'd definitely limit the amount you run before. Take the day before off, and in the next day or so just do some short runs. My only experience with that distance was the HIM that I did last year. I walked all the aid stations, granted I blew up on the bike though and I was just happy to run at all. But I would say the walking the aid stations is a good plan. Once you get to last last couple of miles just give it everything you've got. Enjoy the day, it's a great accomplishment.
2007-01-03 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
Hey guys, what socks do you wear (if any) while running and biking (mainly running). I have been running for years, but always seem to get blisters on runs longer than 5 miles. I recently found out that you aren't supposed to wear cotton socks. Is this true? I've never tried running w/out socks. So what kind of socks do you recommend and do you know where i can pick some up?
2007-01-03 9:22 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
Hey Matt and John, thanks for the advice. I will be sure to use it. Never even thought about walking through the aid stations, sounds like a plan. I will hydrate until I float on friday. Once again, thank you. I will post the race and experince later on. Steve
2007-01-04 7:57 AM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL

slashwv - 2007-01-03 2:33 PM Hey all, Have a few questions. Running my first half mary on Sat. 01/06, any good advice? Should I keep running up to that day or take a few days of before the race? I have never run that far before in a race and my main goal is to just finish.I did run the course a few weeks back and it was a bit@h!!! At the 10mile mark the monkey jumped on for a ride, at the 11mile mark the whole damn zoo jumped on. Should I run for 30 min and walk a min.or two, and run for 30 more or run till I drop and then walk? Looking for any help you guys can give me. My lungs are great ,but my legs are avg. at best. I hope to keep it under 2hrs...But we will have to wait and see.Thanks, Steve

I would agree on the 2-3 days of no to light running.  For most of my races, I will shut er down a few days for total rest and then maybe a short run at race pace (even like a mile or two) just to get the sticks going.  Dont overdo it though.  Your fitness is as good as its going to get for the race at this point so any longer runs or whatever with the hopes of building more ability will actually just fatigue the legs.  As far as pacing goes, you should run a steady pace that you can comfortably sustain.  If you are pushing too hard or too fast to where you are breathing heavy, you likely have gone beyond your lactic threshhold.  This is basically the point where the body stops working aerobically (efficiently) and works at an oxygen deficit.  When this happens, your body produces lactic acid, which is a bad thing for longer distance events especially early in the game.  So keep the pace easy, remember that you are going a full 13 and avoid blowing up.  Believe me cuz I have done this before- it is better to stay with the comfy pace versus going out to fast and having a sufferfest the remainder of the race.  Walk if you need to and when you need to, but then get back at it.  And keep hydration in focus, definitely.

2007-01-04 8:03 AM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL

ballyard7 - 2007-01-03 6:35 PM Hey guys, what socks do you wear (if any) while running and biking (mainly running). I have been running for years, but always seem to get blisters on runs longer than 5 miles. I recently found out that you aren't supposed to wear cotton socks. Is this true? I've never tried running w/out socks. So what kind of socks do you recommend and do you know where i can pick some up?

I generally go with plain cotton socks for training runs, though also use biking socks (footy type).  For shorter events, I work up to sockless too to save time in transitions.  With blister issues, you might want to check more in to technical socks. They have many different types that help prevent blisters.  You might want to try this for starters:

http://www.roadrunnersports.com/rrs/mensapparel/menssocks/list/?_requestid=10062



2007-01-05 3:01 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
ballyard7 - 2007-01-03 6:35 PM

Hey guys, what socks do you wear (if any) while running and biking (mainly running). I have been running for years, but always seem to get blisters on runs longer than 5 miles. I recently found out that you aren't supposed to wear cotton socks. Is this true? I've never tried running w/out socks. So what kind of socks do you recommend and do you know where i can pick some up?


I hate the same problem, and then my wife introduced me to cool max type socks. I use the Adidas ones, I believe they are called Climacool. She buys them for me cause she always finds the deals. They are like heaven on your feet.
2007-01-06 7:04 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
Hey all, just dropping a line to tell you all I made it! 1hr 57min 06sec. Got it under the goal of 2hrs. I've posted a little about it on my training log, and have started a draft on my race log. Hope to have it updated soon. Thanks to everyone for your support and advice.I used most of it,( ran whole thing....not a great idea!) but all in all a great adventure that I never would have dreamed of doing as little as a year ago. I now have 2 Races under my belt. ( the other was a 5k, talk about a BIG difference) and I'm looking forward to more. Esp. my first Tri. later this year. Here's to a great way to start out a new year, lets all kick the hell out of it, and make it ours!

PS The 1st round of beers is on me

Steve

Edited by slashwv 2007-01-06 7:07 PM
2007-01-08 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
Well I'm back from vacation and let the training begin! Or i should say restart. I've been bad and have been very lax in my training since my last triathlon. But now it is 2007 and i have a new beginning with motivation.

Joe -

I'm looking at the the Olympic Elkhart Lake tri. It may be too early in the season and I may not have enough experience to make it a sucessful race. By successful I mean fun and finishing and not wanting me to quit the sport. Thoughts? Most of my training will be indoors on a treadmill and swimming 1x week at the High School. I don't have trainer for the bike, but my eyes are open for some good deals.

I started my nutritional log too. My goal is to be down 25-30 lbs. by June.

Talk to you later,

AJ
2007-01-08 1:42 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL

ajotto - 2007-01-08 1:33 PM Well I'm back from vacation and let the training begin! Or i should say restart. I've been bad and have been very lax in my training since my last triathlon. But now it is 2007 and i have a new beginning with motivation. Joe - I'm looking at the the Olympic Elkhart Lake tri. It may be too early in the season and I may not have enough experience to make it a sucessful race. By successful I mean fun and finishing and not wanting me to quit the sport. Thoughts? Most of my training will be indoors on a treadmill and swimming 1x week at the High School. I don't have trainer for the bike, but my eyes are open for some good deals. I started my nutritional log too. My goal is to be down 25-30 lbs. by June. Talk to you later, AJ

Welcome back!!  Where are you at on the run?  Do you have access to spin classes at all (better than nothing)?  That race is early June, correct?

2007-01-08 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
Here is my run situation. Definitely my weakest area. At the peak of my training last year I could go 3.5 miles without stopping @ 10-11 min pace. During a race I would have to stop 2-3 times and would finish at a 10:00 min/mile pace. My first race i was at 10:30 pace, but I contacted my old chemistry teacher who is the hight school track coach and he gave me some drills to increase speed. I know that my stopping is 99% mental and i just need to break through it. Starting tomorrow, I want to concentrate on running shorter distances, but faster pace, maybe 9 - 9:30 miles and build up miles from there. Last year I think I trained myself into a jogging pace, and running is my biggest opportunity for improvement.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

AJ


2007-01-09 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL

ajotto - 2007-01-08 2:56 PM Here is my run situation. Definitely my weakest area. At the peak of my training last year I could go 3.5 miles without stopping @ 10-11 min pace. During a race I would have to stop 2-3 times and would finish at a 10:00 min/mile pace. My first race i was at 10:30 pace, but I contacted my old chemistry teacher who is the hight school track coach and he gave me some drills to increase speed. I know that my stopping is 99% mental and i just need to break through it. Starting tomorrow, I want to concentrate on running shorter distances, but faster pace, maybe 9 - 9:30 miles and build up miles from there. Last year I think I trained myself into a jogging pace, and running is my biggest opportunity for improvement. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. AJ

Well, here is my two cents.  First off, step away from the speed work.  Before you even sniff that stuff, you need to build a stronger base in just general running.  This helps build your aerobic system and builds your body to the stresses of running.  Right now hitting speed work will likely lead to 1) discouragement  2) injury.  My advice is to just get out and run and try and enjoy it.  If you can do 3 or 4 times a week, just get out there at a comfortable pace for about a month or so and you will see results.  Second, I think you can build up to an olympic distance tri by June, however, speed work is putting the cart before the horse.  Focus on frequency and comfortable pace now.  Learn to enjoy running and screw the pace for now.  I have a pretty good base after working up to the Vegas marathon in December, but, and you will find this consistently if you search the forums, the majority of your runs should be at a comfortable pace as it most efficiently trains your aerobic system with the least shock to your system.  Once you get where your base is better and you are feeling stronger running, that is when you throw in the speed stuff.  I am always happy to help and running is something I can actually do in this sport.  Swimming, your on your own   Hell, I will coordinate run days with your schedule if you want so you know someone else is chugging away out there with ya.

2007-01-09 9:07 AM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
FWIW- on the speed work before base advice, not only am I a naysayer of that technique, but it got my azz injured plenty of times in the past before I read more on proper training.
2007-01-09 1:48 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
I have to agree with Joe on speed work, When I started training in late summer I hadn't run for a while, after about 3-4 times out I was feeling great, so I pushed it up to the next level and tried to get my times down......BAD IDEA, the first day I did it I blow out my calf, layed me up for 3-4 weeks. When I started back I was forced to take it slow, and it worked out much better for me, my times droped on there own, it just came with time. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Good luck! Steve

Edited by slashwv 2007-01-10 10:19 AM
2007-01-10 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: jszat's Group - FULL
I actually found that I got faster with just base runs. I typically run around 8:30 in the run portion of a sprint. The 2 sprints I did last year I averaged close to 8 minutes without even sniffing the track or any kind of speed/tempo runs. This year I may change a bit for my Oly in June. Even at that though, I probably will build my base until at least May before hitting the track.
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