danielle860's group - FULL (Page 2)

Hey James-

I'm in limbo about the Mossman. Originally I was aiming to do the Devilman Sprint in early May and then an olympic later in the season. But my running is coming along nicely so I thought I'd do the NJ Half Marathon in May..but its a week after the Devilman and my friend thinks that's a bad idea because I won't have enough time to recover from the tri. So now I'm not sure what I want to do.

Laura

Hi - here some thoughts.....

Laura - Yep your friends are right the half Marathon will really take it out of you and you should really have done your longest training run two weekends before the race so you can start tapering off. I think the Mossman in June is at Milford which is an Olympic race, maybe this is a good progression for you from Sprint to Olympic. Sound like you have the running wired so would just need to concentrate on the increased distance for swim and cycle....

Megan/Tara - For your plans and to avoid burnout go into the Plans section pick a 12 week plan that is good for you and works. These are free.

Key things I believe to success are.
1/ Only train 5 days a week.

2/ Do two Cycles/Swims/Runs a week double up short swim day and short Cycle day to fit into 5 days. Don't beat your self up if you miss a session/day. (Don't worry about weights until later after all it will be the running and the Swimming and cycling that will get you to the finish line)

3/ Always try to put your long run on your last day before a rest day. (Running does the most damage to your body and needs the rest)

4/ Don't fall back on your strong leg. i.e If you are a good runner and a C*ap Cycler and you have to drop a session, drop the run not the cycle.


Danielle and the rest maybe you can add more...

Rgds


James G

So much to respond to!
Laura - if copy the text below into your Goals section, you'll have a link you can follow. Take out the quotes at the beginning and end, it's the only way I can get it to show up in the forum.
"http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=62367&posts=1&start=1"

Laura - About Devilman. I don't know anything about that race other than it's a sprint run in conjunction with a half, but some people from the site raced that last year and here is a list of race reports Devilman Sprint Reports. Looks like it is a little long in all distances, but especially the bike, so it's more like a long sprint. Since you are strong in the bike, that might be a good thing. You find almost any race you are interested in on this site and get these reports. If you do the NJ Half Marathon I will be there... It's April 29 this year, so might actually be a week before Devilman... which would definitely not work schedule-wise.

Megan - What are your training distances now and what is your weakness? If you need to build distance in all three, then you probably do have time to follow the Beginner Sprint program on this site and then move into the Olympic after your first race. If it's hard to follow a plan at first, then you can set up a basic plan on your own, which I'll try and explain quickly. Choose a certain number of workouts per week in each sport, and a total workout time for the week. Schedule one or two days as rest days. You'll want to build time per session for three weeks (generally following the 10% rule, so no more than 10% more than what you did last week), working in one long run and one long bike into this schedule. The fourth week is a recovery week that cuts back around 30% from your biggest week (and you won't do a long run or ride this week). This allows everything to adapt to your new volume. The plans here all use this format, and also incorporate triathlon skills such as bricks, so they are great as a guideline even if you don't follow them exactly. This is really just everything in a nutshell, so if you have any questions let me know.

Tara - I know what you are saying about overdoing things at the beginning and then getting fatigued. That's not really an option in swimming, because it's not like you can walk if you get tired. For me, the biggest issue was knowing mentally that I could complete that distance. If that's your issue too, it might be a good idea to regularly swim the distance of the race (plus a little more if you can) continuously. I know they don't always do this in training plans, but it was huge for me in getting ready to swim that distance. You can build distance by doing ladders... something like 50, 100, 150, 200, 200, 150, 100, 50 and take a 20 second break in between each. Build on that every week until you are comfortable with the distance. If you can get in any time in the open water, that would be awesome. I think the hardest part of my first swim was the saltwater taste, I was totally not expecting that.

James Personally, I train 6 days per week, at first because it was the how schedules are set up on this site and now because that's what my coach says to do (he's got my long run and long ride usually set up as one-a-days and then I double up on workouts every other day - except this week which is wonky because I have a mini-vacation). But it's all about what you are comfortable with and your body can handle. Definitely agree with not cutting out the session for the sport you are weakest in, although sometimes that is so hard to do!

Tomorrow when I get a chance, I am going to post some stuff about heart rate training and training by intensity. Not everyone cares for it, and I've only been doing it four months (with good results). It's just something that would have been great to know when I started, so you now you won't be able to say no one told you







Edited by danielle860 2007-01-02 7:30 PM

Tara,

I agree with Danielle's comment that knowing you can do the distance is the greatest mental barrier. When I started swimming (just this past March!) it was a great accomplishment to swim a full lap. I'm not sure what your starting point is, but I started with very short ladder workouts (25, 50, 75, 75, 50, 25) and thought I was going to have to reimburse the YMCA for my excessive water and chlorine intake. My first tri had a 440 swim and I was terrified because I figured that if you get tired on the run, you walk; if you get tired on the bike, you coast; if you get tired on the swim, you drown. After doing a couple weeks of these ladders, my "endurance" improved to the point where I could crawl stroke for 200 yards without passing out. What I eventually discovered is that at a certain point (around 250 yards for me) the muscle strain disappeared, I calmed down, the stroke smoothed out, and everything kind of went on autopilot. Once I realized all of these things, I decided to try the unthinkable - do 1600 yards to see if I could eventually do an Oly. Much to my surprise, the hardest part of the last 1300 yards was keeping track of the laps!

For me, the hardest part of the swim is the first couple of hundred yards that it takes my arms and shoulders to get over the intial shock of continuous pulling. After that, it's all rhythm. If you need it for comfort, there is nothing wrong with throwing breathstroke in there either.

Hope this helps!

Todd

I was going to do the HR post this morning, but when I was going through my bookmarked stuff, all these great articles came to my attention. If any of it sounds like it applies to you, give it a read.

Planning Training and Recovery
Beginner's Training Schedule Five month training plan to complete an Olympic Distance race.
Planning a Week Great resource on why it's important to vary intensity in workouts
Planning Your Race SeasonTalks about prioritizing races, tapering, and planning recovery as part of your race season. If this interests you and you want more info, the Triathlete's Training Bible by Joe Friel goes into this.
VDOT Calculator Great way to determine your run pacing if you don't have an HR monitor.
Google Maps Pedometer For measuring run/ride distances

Nutrition
The Athlete's Kitchen really easy to read basic nutrition info
Nutrition 101 motivation
Calorie-Count.com Good site for help in nutrition planning

Race Prep
Tactics for Open-Water Swimming
Triathlon Swimming Race Rehearsal
Don't Let Fear-Based Training Sabotage Your Next Race Must read for anyone who has ever done something like practice for a 5K by racing a 5K in training the week of the actual race. Also has distance planning for Olympic Distance Races

My Race Log

Hi Danielle,

Some very useful information indeed certainly going to keep my weekend full. The article you refer to beginning Olympic, is the plan I used when I started back training in Sep. I did up to the 4th week milleage and have stayed flat at that just to get base and build strength over off season. Good programme but the body protested a fair bit over the first three weeks.

Good point about the 5 or 6 days of training, personally I find 5 days better as I do my long Cycle and Long Run back to back on Sat & Sun. I personally find I have to have Friday and Monday off to rest up and recover. But hey every one is different.

Maybe in another 3 to 4 months when my base has improved and I am stronger I might move to 6 days.

Todd - Enjoyed your story on drinking the pool dry vwery entertaining...


Happy Training

JG

Hey all! Hope your week is going great. Before a short distance single sport event (run), how many rest days do you take?

Hey Danielle,
Thanks for the advice on training (and inspiration . That helps a lot! I'm not exactly sure what my distances are right now. For runs, I've been sticking around 2.5 mi at a 10 min pace. I just biked today for the first time since the summer and did about 10 miles. I have yet to swim...so that will be interesting. How might I even know my distance for that? Should I focus on minutes for the first few swims?
I think one of my weaknesses right now is doing too much and pushing too hard. I tend to fall back into the athlete mentality I once had and think I can do what I used to be able to. So I've been very aware of cultivating patience and your advice on the 12-week sprint to not burn out will probably be key.
I also noticed that there was an article on strength training on the home page, so I'll make sure to check that out soon.

Hope everyone is having a good week!

Megan

Todd - for a race that I want to PR in, I will do a shorter run two days before at a tempo pace, and then I will take the day before my race off. Before the race, I like to warm up for ten minutes, especially in chilly weather.

Megan - I think if you are just starting out, just getting in the pool and making it across a few times is a good start. Then you can assess where you are and go from there.
Some people on this site have had luck with Total Immersion, which is a book that gives specific drills and sort of builds you up to a full swim stroke. There is also a program called Zero to 1650 in six weeks. I started it last year, but found that I had to build up my distance a little more slowly than he has you do (probably because I was going too fast).

As far as everything else goes, it seems like you are in a good spot to start a sprint training program from the site once you are close enough to your race. I think your athlete mentality will probably end up taking you far in this sport... it's a good thing to have

Edited by danielle860 2007-01-04 9:24 AM

Hi again,
I definitely want to be able to swim the race distance and even further regularly. I hope to get out in the open water as often as possible. Its gross marshy kind of water and a coworker split his arm open on barnacles on a bouy last year and required quite a few stiches to sew it up so I'll definitely take some one with me (I don't like the thought of "things" in the water) - Ugh!

What exactly are ladders? I assume it means to swim 50 yds (2-25 yd laps without stopping) and then progress up to the next distance and then ladder back down to the low distance again (with a 20 second rest in between). Is that right?

I have the book Total Immersion and am trying to understand some of what is taught in there about stroke, etc. Should I be using a kickboard or anything yet or just work on getting the distance down first? I'm afraid I'm going to learn a bad stroke technique or something and have to unlearn. I do plan to join the Master's Swimmers group once I find a contact person. I heard they're great at giving tips on technique and all.

One last thing. I have instability in one of my shoulders and a spur which I always agravate when I swim. Should I swim several laps to warm up and then do some gentle stretching exercises before doing the main part of my workout?

Thanks again for all your help!
Tara

Hey Todd,

Thanks for your report and reply. Its so good to know the mental stuff that goes along with the physical. If I know its going to be hard for 250 yds or so and then get better I can hang in there. I've experienced that with biking cuz that is what I do more than the others but I haven't experienced it with either swimming or running yet so its good to know.

Here's a stupid question: When you do the laps to do a distance longer than the length of the pool (ex: 50 or 150 or 200 or whatever) is it okay to touch the edge of the pool and "push off" or is that just cheating myself? I see other swimmers doing the fancy flip things at the end of each lap and it seems like they're getting a huge burst of speed plus the false security of momentarily holding on to the edge. I know when I swim in my home pool I try not to touch the edge end just make a little circle at the end of each lap and then try to get my body up on the surface again and swim. It looks retarded but I feel like its more realistic, like being in open water.

Happy training!

Tara

I agree! Things in the water are nasty! This is why I swim with a wetsuit all the time in the open water.... it's kind of like a barrier between me and all the nasty stuff, at least mentally.

You've got the ladder definition right. I'm not sure if a kickboard will help you with getting down the distance, but if you need do other strokes like breast stroke or backstroke to meet the distance at first, it will help. Lots of people end up using these strokes in races to cover the distance, and I ended up backstroking in my first race to avoid nausea (it was my first time swimming in waves). These are just tips for getting through the race and covering the distance, once you get in the master's program, I am sure they will be able to give you some good technique pointers.

Sorry to hear about your shoulder problem. I'm not really qualified to answer that, but I will say is that it's ALWAYS a good idea to stretch and warm up before any workout.


Edited by danielle860 2007-01-04 10:58 AM

Tara,

I do push off a little, but I don't really bother with the flip turns. I do more of an flat spin, under-the-surface touch with my feet and push just hard enough to bring me back up to cruising speed. I guess I have always felt that there are no push-offs in the OWS, but coming back to regular speed is somehow more true to life

As far as pool toys go, I'm a big fan of the pull buoy - the hourglass shaped floatie thing you put between your thighs. I have found that it keeps my body in a more-or-less acceptable flat position without having to actually move your legs. It is a great tool for focusing on your arm stroke, which is where your most effective power comes from. Something about larger muscles (legs) requiring more oxygen and energy than smaller muscles. I'm no physiologist, but I know I get a lot more bang for the buck by smooth strong pulling with the arms than kicking like the devil with my legs.

I have not had anything that resembles swim lessons or coaching since I was 8, but this site has a good selection of swim articles that I have read and tried at least once. I'd be happy to share any of the things I have learned. The only stupid question is the one that you don't ask

Have a great day!

Hey Tara and Todd-

While I'm not qualified to comment on swim all that much yet, I had one coaching session about a month ago and he had me use a pull buoy to strengthen my arms as well as simulate where my legs need to be in order reduce the drag caused by my sinking legs. Fins and zoomers (fins with the long flipper cut off) are designed to do this as well.

Swim is definitely going to be my biggest challenge. Getting my endurance up to the 1,600+ yard mark without stopping...I can't WAIT to see the day! I'm at about 250 at this point before I stop and take a 10-20 second rest.

On Saturday, I am starting a Tri-Stroke Clinic at Asphalt Greens with Kate (another member of our group). If either of you live or work in NYC, Asphalt Greens is on the UES and this program comes highly recommended.

Laura

That is so cool that you guys are meeting up as a result of this thread!

Hey all - let's talk bikes! I know Tara has a sweet ride, but what is everyone else riding?
Kate, I am also curious if you are going with a triathlon bike or a road bike for your HIM's, since they are on hillier courses.

SO for me - I am currently riding a Specialized Dolce Elite road bike, which is basically an entry-level road bike. I had hoped to get a triathlon bike before this season started, but because I am very small I need a custom bike which is more expensive, so that kind of pushed my plans back a little bit. Hopefully I can get my order in sometime this season and will get to race with it next year.

I ride a Cannondale R700. I think it's an entry level road bike. It's a man's bike actually that's been altered to fit my frame (i.e. a stem added to bring the handlebars up a little). I've been riding it for a year and a half and I LOVE it!

Everyone i know that's done a triathalon is telling me I should upgrade to aerobars. Any thoughts?

Laura

Hi - Brought a new Scott Speedster S20 in September. It is a Road bike which is kind of middle of the range with Carbon Fibre forks. I initially tried a Specialized Tri bike and hated it it was so light and delicate I would have fallen off too many times not ideal for the hills of Connecticut.

I love my bike, not only because it is sexy (Very Bright Red and Black) but is is fairly chunky which I like and Scotts have very large frames which I need as I am tall and ride a 58 - 60 bike.

The only bad comments I have is all Scott's come with Killer seats but I have slowly numbed to the pain and also the gears are on the breaks so sometimes put on the breaks instead of changing gears little bit concerting flying down a hill but I am used to it now.

I must have ridden 10 bikes before deciding on the Scott also the $1000 discount helped make the choice a little easier......


Cheers JG

Hi Everyone,

I can only speak from limited experience. My husband went nuts last year and bought me a Trek 5000 which cost over $3,000. UGH! Oh my gosh, he must really love me. All I did was get excited about a group of friends who bike 2-3 times a week and rode with them a few times and he bought it - Cool! I have only about 450 miles on it but can honestly say it's a dream to ride. It is a women's specific bike which I would recommend especiallly if you're smaller framed. Of course I've never ridden anything else to compare it to.

Hey, I swam yesterday!!! What a doofus I felt like. First off after swimming a few warm-up laps the guy in the lane next to me told me that I could probably see better if I took the label off my goggles (they were brand new and still had stickers on them. I just thought I couldn't see cuz I had taken my contacts out). Then, I was so proud of myself because I actually swam 12 laps without stopping. They told me in the office that 8 laps was 1/4 mile so I figured I swam 4 extra laps. Then I found out that a "lap" is out and back. I was just counting one way which means I only did 6 laps. The good thing is I know I could have swam the full 8 laps (16 the way I was counting) if my life depended on it. I'm definitely going to work on endurance but was still pleased that I didn't die in the pool the first time.

I did experience the early feelings of fatigue and then after I kept going for a while I felt more comfortable and able to pace myself. I really just wanted to get in the water and start to feel comfortable again. Swallowed lots of water but once I calmed down a little it became easier. I'm looking forward to establishing a training program.

Thanks again for all the input. You guys are great!
Tara

My steed is a Lemond Reno road bike: aluminum frame, carbon forks, black with red accents. It is all stock except the pedals, which are Time MTB pedals that I stole from my Gary Fisher. I am extremely fiscally conservative (read: cheap) and just couldn't bring myself to buy another set of pedals and shoes when I can only use one bike at a time anyway I've kicked around the idea of aerobars, but quite frankly I have just not had long enough race distances to justify them. I rode with them once on a buddy's all carbon Specialized and felt that I had very little control in the hills and turns (which are most of what I ride around here) . . . probably another justification to stick with the road bike in the drop position.

I have a trek roadbike...does the job. I just graduated from college so there are no expensive triathlon bikes in my future! Do you think I'll be at a disadvantage on the HIM courses?

I also have a good open water swim anecdote. I did my first tri (Pine Barrens Sprint) without any open water experience. The minute the race started I had a total panic attack, forgot how to swim and had to float on my back the entire way. It took me so long that I made my parents late for a wedding. I laugh now, but it wasn't funny at the time. Definitely get the experience before you race and remember that you'll have to contend with a lot of elbows and kicks in the head at the start.

I'm embarrassed to say I haven't gotten in the pool yet, but tomorrow I'm breaking the ice with the stroke clinic and hopefully it will be smooth sailing from there. Danielle, I like the ladder workouts you suggested and think I'll try to tackle one of those in my first couple sessions.

I'm also in the midst of moving into a new apartment...which is consuming a lot of my training time

Kate, I feel your pain! I did the moving thing in November, and missed so much training time. Think positive, at least you are getting some strength training in! There are always debates on the Triathlon talk board about Tri bikes vs. road bikes that I usually only pay a little attention to, mostly because I'm not in a position to buy one right now either and those threads only make me really want one. If you are interested in reading about the difference, here is an article Difference between a road bike and a triathlon bike. There are also some good fit articles on that site.

Re: aerobars - I love mine. It's nice to have another position to use on the bike. When I got them, the shop had to refit me on the bike because they change your position. Also, there is an aero bottle you can get for in between the bars to make drinking easier. These are supposed good for longer distance races so I am going to give it a try.

James - I don't know a lot about men's bike issues (really only what my training partner tells me about it), but pain is not good. Any thoughts on trying out a new saddle?

Good luck with the swimming everyone! Tara - congrats on not dying in the pool. You'll be kicking butt in no time!



Edited by danielle860 2007-01-05 1:42 PM

Hi,
Mrs. Novice here. I'm not sure how to do #2 & #3. I put everyone's names in my friends list but it doesn't seem to do anything. I also put the names there and I tried clicking on the ... after the names (ex: Laura, Todd, Danielle, etc.) and it would just bring up a blank screen. Also, when I go online at home from beginnertriathlete.com I don't have the email that I get at work (were you send your emails) and I don't know how to get on to this email part. How do I do that from the main screen? I'm new at more than just triathloning here. You guys are teaching an old dog new tricks. I guess its never too late to learn! Can any body help me?

Okay, I gotta figure out a regular work out schedule. Should I do 2x/week per sport or 3x/week at this time? Don't want to burn out but don't want to be a slackard either. Hmmmm. Gonna listen to my body on this one. Your thoughts?
Talk to ya'll,
Tara