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2009-04-25 6:45 PM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
mtnbkr - 2009-04-22 11:31 PM JD...well, I'm feeling pretty good about my running...feeling stronger and getting a bit faster...tweaked my knee doing sprints this morning...felt fine swimming...will have to take it easy for a few days...I feel like I'm getting stronger in the pool too...I'm not gaining any speed but my 1mi and 1.2mi times are satisfactory...been getting some good bike rides in lately...our weather has been summer like but goes back to wintery tomorrow!
Thanks for asking...Tom


How's the knee doing? Hopefully just a minor tweak and you're feeling better. I see that you did an easy spin ride and some good swimming sessions. Wintery weather and it's almost May... yuck!


2009-04-25 6:51 PM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
trinity - 2009-04-23 9:44 AM I seem to be progressing slowly but surely.  After my humbling cycling experience in the last race I am EXTREMELY motivated to improve my pace.  So, I am looking to at least double my volume on the bike (it was way too low to begin with).  I have already ridden  3 times this week and hope to get in 2 more.  I also had my longest ride to date on Sunday, 35 miles.  Legs and body seem to be handling the increase well but 2 a days make me ready for bed at 8 pm.

I would love to find a 5k to run in the next week or 2 just to see where I'm at.  The track workouts have me feeling faster and I'd like to see if it translates to racing.  If I can't find a race I may do my own TT.

I'm ok with my swimming for the time being as I focus on biking and running.  I can swim a 500 in about 8:50 and although I'd like to get faster the swim is the shortest part of the race and I need to give the majority of my attention to the longest part, biking.


I think you'll find all that extra bike riding will pay off, just don't go too crazy... the improvements will come over time. Looks like you had a good 5K TT.

500 in 8:50 is a nice time on the swim! I think you're doing the right thing to focus some attention on the bike.
2009-04-25 6:57 PM
in reply to: #2105200

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Mike - way to jump right back into it, I love it!  My advice, for what it's worth; is that you still need to be doing more biking for half IM's. The run is where you feel it, but the bike is where it starts. Not a ton of time before you need to taper for Florida, but try to get in as much biking as makes sense for you - and then keep within yourself during the bike in the actual race.

Looking forward to seeing how it goes...
2009-04-26 11:54 AM
in reply to: #1857266

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
JD...my knee is fine. I laid off the running for a few days...will run again Tues as well as bike. Mon will be the usual morning in the pool. Thanks for reviewing my training log...I'm feeling good about my running and biking...have some long bike rides planned with my biking buddies in May...not really gaining any speed in the pool but I am feeling stronger...if I can keep my mile at 50min or below and my 1.2 at 60min or below I'll be satisfied for this year..................Tom
2009-04-27 10:27 AM
in reply to: #2110328

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
PLMsbr - 2009-04-25 5:51 PM
I think you'll find all that extra bike riding will pay off, just don't go too crazy... the improvements will come over time. Looks like you had a good 5K TT.

500 in 8:50 is a nice time on the swim! I think you're doing the right thing to focus some attention on the bike.


Thanks JD.  I could tell that my running had improved even though my times in recent races haven't shown that.  I ran the TT on a moderately hilly course and still bested my 5K PR on a fairly flat course by nearly a minute.  I think I have a good chance of seeing a
24:xx time in my next 5k.  I'm still in my first year of outdoor competitive running and have knocked nearly 6 minutes off my first 5k race time.  It is so good to see the training paying dividends.

I'm trying not to go too crazy on the bike.  I'm paying very close attention to my body and so far I'm still feeling good even with the increased load.  I did have to give up my long ride yesterday though because we had some friends over for a bbq so I'll try to sneak an extra ride in sometime this week.
2009-04-27 10:41 AM
in reply to: #1857266

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL

I know there are a few of us here who train at altitude so I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if you have noticed any difference while racing at lower elevations?

I train in Albuquerque at around 5000 ft and will be racing in Lubbock at around 3000 ft.  Can I expect enhanced performance or:

Is the altitude difference not enough to effect performance?
Will the increased heat and humidity negate any potential enhancement?

Ideas?



2009-04-29 11:39 AM
in reply to: #2112797

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Here's an interesting article that gives both sides of the debate over altitude training... Note the reference to 13 seconds improvement in a 5K. For me, heat and humidity are pretty big factors. Those factors, combined with the course elevation, seem to have very large impacts on times. Also, the altitude studies usually compare high elevations to sea-level performance. In your case, you'll still be at 3000+ feet.

So, enjoy breathing a little bit easier at the lower elevation, but trust in your training and stick to your plan

2009-04-30 10:13 AM
in reply to: #1857266

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Thanks JD...that's an interesting article.  I never really considered the fact that training at altitude will not be as effective as training at sea level.  I do think that when I moved to a much lower elevation a few years back that I definitely noticed a difference for a few weeks.  I remember my muscles actually tiring before my respiratory system which was new to me.  As you point out, I don't think a small, 2k feet, drop will make much of a difference especially with increased humidity, but a guy can dream.

I'm going to run a 5k this weekend and think I will be better prepared than my last stand alone run.  I hope to knock over 1 minute off my PR, of course I had that plan last time and it fell through.  However, I did knock a minute off my PR in my most recent TT on a hilly course so we'll see.
2009-04-30 12:20 PM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
I went up to 9000 feet from sea level a few weeks ago and did a couple of runs.  It sucked, and I definitely was not able to do my normal workouts at the same pace.  Coming back down I didn't notice anythign being easier, but I was only there for 3 days so I doubt that is enough time to make any impact.
2009-05-01 4:12 PM
in reply to: #1857266

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Hey folks, just had to share the good news... got my USAT Level 1 Coach Certification today! Laughing 

Hope everyone is ready to have a great weekend with lots of training!
2009-05-01 8:20 PM
in reply to: #1857266

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Nice going "Coach"!!!!!!!
I'm taking this weekend off, actually just Sat, because I always take Sun off. I did a tough 40mi, 7mi of climbing, with a nasty headwind ride on Thur. Why does it always seem that the wind is a "headwind" for more than half the ride when you do an out and back!!
Then today I did my 2500yd swim this morning and my longest run ever this afternoon...16mi...up to Lucky Peak park along the greenbelt and back. Headwind, cloudy, light sprinkles going up and although the wind died down some I still had a bit of a tail wind coming home. I felt pretty good on the run. Kept a 9:58 avg pace, which is great because 10 was my goal. I did it more for the distance than the time. I work Sat afternoon so thought I would take it easy Sat a.m.
I have my HM coming up May 16. I plan on swimming 1.2mi a.m. the day before and ride the Boise 70.3 race course that same afternoon. The HM won't be an A race but will be a good training run.
There is a problem I am having with a blister on the bottom of my left foot just to the inside of the ball. I get it in the same exact spot when I run over 8mi or so. This is the second pair of good running shoes and I have tried a wide variety of socks. I'm convinced it's just the way I'm landing on my foot but I don't know how to correct it. I thought about putting some mole skin on before I run. I'll experiment with it on a shorter run to see how it feels and make sure it doesn't make it worse.
Any ideas from the gang???
Have a great weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tom


2009-05-02 12:29 PM
in reply to: #2124986

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Hey all,

I'm back uninjured from Moab.  What a fantastic playground that is!  I forgot how much I enjoy riding off-road.  I never picked up a new bike when I moved to the islands, but that's going to have to change.  The riding was a nice change of pace from the daily training grind, too.  And I even picked up a little speed on my first couple of rides after the trip.

I hopped into a sprint tri before I left.  I think that's going to be a good distance for me to compete in, but I didn't give myself a chance when I ran 10+ miles the night before.  I figured I'd make it a 'C' race and just do it.  Man, that takes all the fun out of racing.  Never again... 

Congrats on the coaching certificate, JD.  Got any knowledge for people like me who swim slower in races than training?

Tom, I have a suggestion for your feet.  Have you tried inserts?  I went through a few shoes last year trying to find the right one.  One shop I stopped at suggested some inserts made by Superfeet.  All my feet issues disappeared.  I've seen them at most running stores and they'll help them fit you to the right size - don't just go by what's on the box.  They cost $35, but that's better than mowing through several $100 pairs of shoes looking for the right set.

Will
2009-05-02 5:24 PM
in reply to: #1857266

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Thanks Will...there is a foot store here in town that I got some inserts from for my biking shoes that helped my numbness and burning pain where the shoes clip into the pedals on those long century + rides. I'll pay them a visit.

I used to make yearly trips to Moab and ride all day for 3-5 days. What a blast that place is. Usualy came home with something broke on the bike or me! Do you have a favorite trail? One of mine was Porcupine Rim..........Tom
2009-05-03 1:50 AM
in reply to: #2125842

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
I loved Slickrock.  We came down from Kokopelli through UPS and LPS into Porcupine Rim.  Fantastic approach, but I went through 4 tubes and had to repatch 3 of them due to some worn rental tires and a cactus I hit somewhere along the way...  We also hit Sovereign Trail and Amasa Back, but there's nothing like going up and down grades you've never thought were possible.

I'm glad I didn't break anything.  I took a couple of good falls, but the only real hit is going to be to my wallet when I go buy a mountain bike and paying for a flight every year when I go back.
2009-05-03 1:44 PM
in reply to: #2125575

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Will - couple ideas in regards to swimming slower in races than training:

1. What used to happen to me, and I see in many others, is that form goes right out the window. Head stays up too much to see what's around, strokes get choppier, etc. Make a conscious effort to retain good form with your head down, chest pressed down, and taking nice long strokes with streamlined body position.

2. This applies mainly to open water swims, but often people zig-zag around instead of swimming straight. Almost everyone tends to drift towards one side, so learn what your tendency is and then do small course corrections as you go.

3. Another OWS issue; but course distances just plain aren't always accurate. You never really know if your swim was good or bad until you see how you stack up against the other people in the race. My last two halfs I had a 27 minute swim in one and a 35 minute swim in the other. The 35 minute swim was actually a much better swim, because the other one was quite a bit short and the 35 minute swim course may have been slightly long.

Main thing is the form, though. If that goes bad, your swim times will suffer, and it takes more effort to boot.
2009-05-03 5:46 PM
in reply to: #2126198

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Will...I've been on sections of Kokopelli...Slick Rock is always the first ride of the trip as we get into town late in the afternoon...Amasa is a must just for "the challenge"--both the up and the down!!
Glad to hear nothing got broke............Tom


2009-05-04 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
PLMsbr - 2009-05-01 3:12 PM Hey folks, just had to share the good news... got my USAT Level 1 Coach Certification today! Laughing 

Hope everyone is ready to have a great weekend with lots of training!


Congrats Coach JD!

Well my 5k actually went as planned....in fact even better than planned!  I was hoping to just crack the 24 minute mark and I wound up running a 24:09.  It was a huge race with lots of runners and I think if I wouldn't have had to deal with the traffic I may have made it into the 23's.  I did not taper for the race and have really been pushing my training load so I managed this on less than fresh legs.  I could tell in my training that I had made some pretty good improvement but it is nice to see it finally come together on race day and to exceed my goal by nearly a minute.  This will be a great boost as I head into my A tri race in 2 weeks.  Here's to hoping I've made some gains on the bike as well.

Hope everyone else had a great weekend as well!

Edited by trinity 2009-05-04 10:18 AM
2009-05-04 5:05 PM
in reply to: #2128299

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
Thanks Tim, and congratulations yourself! Great to see those 5K times getting where you want them   That's the feeling we're all shooting for, when you see the training pay off in the race!
2009-05-05 8:31 PM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
JD...It might be a mistake but I am doing my own thing as far as a training plan. If you have time would you take a look at my logs and suggest how I might taper a bit for the HM on Sat the 16th. As I mentioned earlier, I will be swimming the morning of the 15th and riding the Boise 70.3 route that afternoon. Then the HM is 8am the next morning. I plan on finishing this week with a swim (2500yds)/run (6mi) Wed, ride HIM route Thur, swim 2500yds Fri, and possibly my first OWS Sat. Thanks...................Tom
2009-05-06 5:41 AM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
mtnbkr - 2009-05-03 1:46 PM Will...I've been on sections of Kokopelli...Slick Rock is always the first ride of the trip as we get into town late in the afternoon...Amasa is a must just for "the challenge"--both the up and the down!!
Glad to hear nothing got broke............Tom


Have you tried Jackson Trail off of Amasa Back?  Super fun single track with several kind-of-technical sections with real death to the left action.  I'm not crazy enough to ride the whole thing, but man that's a rush.  Then you get to wade through chest deep water at the end to get back to the parking lot...!
2009-05-07 11:12 AM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
mtnbkr - 2009-05-05 8:31 PM JD...It might be a mistake but I am doing my own thing as far as a training plan. If you have time would you take a look at my logs and suggest how I might taper a bit for the HM on Sat the 16th. As I mentioned earlier, I will be swimming the morning of the 15th and riding the Boise 70.3 route that afternoon. Then the HM is 8am the next morning. I plan on finishing this week with a swim (2500yds)/run (6mi) Wed, ride HIM route Thur, swim 2500yds Fri, and possibly my first OWS Sat. Thanks...................Tom


Doing your own training plan is fine, in my opinion (having done it myself); although in retrospect I would have done like you are doing now and sought out advice from people more experienced. I did read a lot from books, triathlon sites, opinions of other triathletes, etc. It's hard to sort it all out, though, because there are so very many differing opinions. And just because someone has had success does not mean they have the *best* way.

That's going to be a tough weekend! Will give you a great idea of where you're at leading up to Boise, though. I looked through your training logs, and here's some guidelines for what I'd suggest in terms of taper. My taper philosophy is that in the last week to 10 days, you are not going to change your overall endurance or speed very much; so you want to allow your body sufficient rest and recovery by reducing volume and frequency; while maintaining your fitness level with some short periods of intensity.

Sat: Run 6 miles. Nice even pace (your normal long distance pace).
Sun: Rest
Mon: Swim; Run 4 miles (distance pace with a few 2-4 minute intervals of higher intensity)
Tue: Bike 20-25 miles
Wed: Swim (a little shorter, maybe 1500 yds); Run 3 miles (intervals as with Monday)
Thu: Rest
Fri: Your planned swim and bike
Sat: Half Marathon

I don't know the elevation changes for your half, but make sure you take those into account in your pacing. My recommendation is to run the first 4 miles conservative, pick it up a little for the next 4, and then see what you have left for the last 5.

And make sure and report back on how it all goes... Good luck!

Edited to add that you might want to throw in another bike ride on Sat or Sunday, as I look at this again.

Edited by PLMsbr 2009-05-07 11:15 AM


2009-05-07 8:30 PM
in reply to: #2136434

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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
PLMsbr - 2009-05-07 10:12 AM
mtnbkr - 2009-05-05 8:31 PM JD...It might be a mistake but I am doing my own thing as far as a training plan. If you have time would you take a look at my logs and suggest how I might taper a bit for the HM on Sat the 16th. As I mentioned earlier, I will be swimming the morning of the 15th and riding the Boise 70.3 route that afternoon. Then the HM is 8am the next morning. I plan on finishing this week with a swim (2500yds)/run (6mi) Wed, ride HIM route Thur, swim 2500yds Fri, and possibly my first OWS Sat. Thanks...................Tom


Doing your own training plan is fine, in my opinion (having done it myself); although in retrospect I would have done like you are doing now and sought out advice from people more experienced. I did read a lot from books, triathlon sites, opinions of other triathletes, etc. It's hard to sort it all out, though, because there are so very many differing opinions. And just because someone has had success does not mean they have the *best* way.

That's going to be a tough weekend! Will give you a great idea of where you're at leading up to Boise, though. I looked through your training logs, and here's some guidelines for what I'd suggest in terms of taper. My taper philosophy is that in the last week to 10 days, you are not going to change your overall endurance or speed very much; so you want to allow your body sufficient rest and recovery by reducing volume and frequency; while maintaining your fitness level with some short periods of intensity.

Sat: Run 6 miles. Nice even pace (your normal long distance pace).
Sun: Rest
Mon: Swim; Run 4 miles (distance pace with a few 2-4 minute intervals of higher intensity)
Tue: Bike 20-25 miles
Wed: Swim (a little shorter, maybe 1500 yds); Run 3 miles (intervals as with Monday)
Thu: Rest
Fri: Your planned swim and bike
Sat: Half Marathon

I don't know the elevation changes for your half, but make sure you take those into account in your pacing. My recommendation is to run the first 4 miles conservative, pick it up a little for the next 4, and then see what you have left for the last 5.

And make sure and report back on how it all goes... Good luck!

Edited to add that you might want to throw in another bike ride on Sat or Sunday, as I look at this again.


Thanks JD...Here's what I can manage with my work schedule and all...
Fri--swim 2500, run 6
Sat--hopefully 1st OWS with wetsuit
Mon--swim 2500 (help son-in-law with garden, go to work)
Tues--Bike 20-25mi
Wed--swim 1500, run 4mi with intervals
Thur--rest and pray for calm winds and fair weather for the next 2 days!!!

Thanks JD................Tom                                  PS...no elevation gain to speak of for HM
2009-05-07 8:41 PM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL

Rode most of the Boise70.3 bike route today...25-30mph winds...what a bummer...didn't set any world speed records...there are a few pretty good climbs esp. the one up to the Birds of Prey HQ. Elevation gain is about 1600ft total. If you've never ridden here you will find out why this valley is called a High Altitude Desert...it's beautiful but it's way out in the open...very little wind break on this route. There are 2 cattle guards...I assume they will be covered. I can tell ya...the thought of running 13 miles after a ride like that kind of scares me!!!!!!! Surprised

2009-05-08 9:49 AM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
mtnbkr - 2009-05-07 6:41 PM

Rode most of the Boise70.3 bike route today...25-30mph winds...what a bummer...didn't set any world speed records...there are a few pretty good climbs esp. the one up to the Birds of Prey HQ. Elevation gain is about 1600ft total. If you've never ridden here you will find out why this valley is called a High Altitude Desert...it's beautiful but it's way out in the open...very little wind break on this route. There are 2 cattle guards...I assume they will be covered. I can tell ya...the thought of running 13 miles after a ride like that kind of scares me!!!!!!! Surprised


Don't think of it that way, just start moving after the bike, and time will pass and so will the miles.  One thing I learned after doing my HIM was to just keep moving, no matter how slow.  Don't be afraid to walk if you have to, and eat and drink at every station.  Especially with the heat you will have, make sure you take in fluids and think about salt tabs as well if you have used them in training.  Don't try to run your fastest time, just set an easy pace and see how you feel and run based on that.

I was in Boise last summer while getting ready to go up to Lake McCall for a vacation, so I know how hot it can get.  Keep the training up and trust all the hard work on race day.
2009-05-08 10:49 AM
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Subject: RE: PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL
That will work. I'd rather see you err on the side of doing less in the last few days and being rested than the opposite.

In regards to running after the bike, Mike (Pac10er2) has good advice. The only thing I'd add (and I'll probably say this again before Boise) is to stay within yourself on the bike. As I mentioned to Mike before his first HIM, pushing to gain a few minutes on the bike can cost you big time on the run. You want a steady pace, keeping cadence up, and avoiding the urge to keep pushing into a harder gear and crank out that extra half mile per hour or so.
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