THE SLAYER RULES-FULL Up (Page 20)

I'm guilty of this as well.  I caught myself a couple of weeks ago just going thru the motions and resting too much between sets while generally not pushing at all. I then thought about the advice you gave about doing 200 yard sets. It seems to be a perfect practice distance for me. It's just long enough for me to feel pretty darn fatigued by the last 75 yards with about 15-20 seconds rest between sets. But it's short enough that I can still focus on maintaining my form.

Hey Slayer, I'll be the next case study if you guys don't mind.  I don't know how well I can be evaluated since I have little to no experience.

Nice job calling yourself out Peter and littlewj, and Hoale will get back in the swing now. Dont be a hyprocrite like your old mentor Slayer. I am trying to take more of my own advice nowadays and am actually taking some downtime that my body and soul are demanding. Normally, I'd be pushing through to get some volume piling damage upon damage onto my muscles. So far I have done nothing since the race....

Ok onto littlewj, we need to know your run down again about your strengths and weaknesses sport by sport, goals for now and future, issues with working out or nutrition, etc. Generally try to provide as much detail as you can summarize so that we can pick it apart and learn from it. Thanks for stepping up in this way.

BTW I'd like you all to know that Peter is one badazz swimmer. 20x200 is no joke w/:15-20 rest interval. I tried it the other day and got to 10 or 12 I forget but I was pretty beat so thats one of my personal challenges. After he tells you about his moped smoking cellphone talking girlfriend, have him tell you how he dusted me in our pre-swim of the Rev3 SC HIM swim course.

And on that note, Jordan should write up the crack-ho battle royale story from our motel the night before the race...

here is a repost from Jimmy from Spokane (take it from here bro-add or change anything):

Will you guys take someone who hasn't done a single traithlon yet? I'd sure like to join.

Name:  Jimmy

Story:  I'm 42 years old and working on 10 years of marriage.  I have two kids ages 6 & 8.  I used to be an avid golfer (5 handicap) but got burned out on it and decided I would love another challenge.

2012 Races: I'm planning on doing several sprints and an olympic.  My ultimate goal for this year is to do a HIM the first week of August.  I'll be beginning the free HIM plan offered on this site starting in March. Within the next couple of years, my goal would be to do an Ironman.

Current Training:  For the past 4 to 5 months I've been trying to build my base.  Right now it works out to about 5 to 8 hours a week. I just starting swimming about 3 months ago. It seems to be going ok.  I swam a mile straight last week at about 1:48 100/yd. I know I need some work on this.  I only get to the pool about 3 times a week. I live in the Pacific Northwest so there is no biking outside right now.  I only get on my bike trainer about 2 to 3 times a week.  I'm having a hard time staying focused on it. I can't wait for Spring to get outside on the bike!! I run often during my lunch hour at work.  I probably average about 20 miles per week. 

Weight:  I weigh between 165 to 170 pounds and I'm 6'0 tall.  I usually don't have a problem maintaining this. I'm not sure if this is ideal or not but I feel comfortable here.

I would sure appreciate any advice this group could give.

Jimmy

found this for you Gladiator:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2012/01/what-i-wear-cold-weather-running.html

also wanted to say back to the vibratingp00 that I am not really fond of the stretching and strengthening exercises for ITB issues. Listen to your body more than conventional wisdom or medical advice when it comes to that. I spent 1-2 years in physical therapy for ITB and low back issues that are pretty much controlled now with lower intensity. I used to have my PT on speed dial and called him my "go to man" for the first IM. Peter may disagree.

I wonder if your"meathead" bikes are having something to do with your injuries? That kind of intensity with that kind of duration may be asking for trouble and you may have to pick your poison.

40k is a stellar swim month. Way to work around.

So this is my first time dealing with the ITB issues, and Im not sure how to go about it.  Dr said that swimming and biking shouldnt be causing any additional problems, that I could run as much as I could deal with the pain and wont be doing any additional damage, and that I could always try a cortisone shot.  In the pool and on the bike I have no pain at all, same on the elliptical, but running outside I get a stabbing pain pretty quickly, even at a Z1 pace where Im essentially speed walking.  Ordered some new shoes over the weekend (Saucony Mirage) that have a little more cushion in them to try out, but thats really not a solution as much as a way to reduce the pain.  Along the same lines, I was going to try running on the track to reduce the hills.

There are better medical people around even on this thread but basically what you are dealing with is inflammation if I am not mistaken. I would let the area calm down, by not doing meathead rides, not rolling or stretching it and inflaming it more, avoiding running for a bit even if you get cushy shoes.

Moving forward I would check bike fit professionally, have a gait analysis professionally and buy new shoes based on that, reduce intensity, run  in a pool or if you can find a anti-gravity or underwater treadmill even better, ice immediately after bikes. Again, I would try to get the areas to calm down and then re-start a run build more conservatively.

Whats the point of demanding your body to produce when its revolting? Look at possibly changing races to later in the season after you get your ITB issue right. Take some pressure off yourself and enjoy the back end of the season when you are healthier and have learned how to avoid this problem moving forward.

Def worth a read if you want to prevent common running injuries. Not so sure on the stretching given the research but at least they are clear about the limitations.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-241-285--13413-0,00.html

I had a pretty good bout with ITBS about a year ago. Here is what I did:

About 1 week of doing nothing but swimming. 2 weeks of no running.

During that 2 weeks, I would ice the area religiously. 

After the first week, I started biking easy. Once I started running again, Slayer may flog me for this, I started using "The Stick". It's like a roller but not nearly as painful. When I started running, I was very careful. Nothing too long, try and avoid angled surfaces, and essentially walked the downhills as those tending to aggravate my leg. I eased back into running and I still do use the stick after every run. It has worked for me. 

Slayer is right though. You are mainly dealing with inflammation and you first have to get rid of that. 

Have you looked into ART or anything like that? I have never done it but know some people who have had good results. 

actually i am not against it if it worked scotty. i even sold all my trigger point rolling sets but kept my stick bec i think it may have some utility down the road.

i do agree whole heartedly about the RICE and floor you run on too. thats why i prefer the track for my runs. softer on my feet and flat. i get alot of aggro from the peanut gallery about it, but it keeps me running so i do it.

For me personally, any issues with IT (or other sudden out of the blue pains) are usually an indicator that it is time for new shoes. Never fails that I start getting IT pains and I check my gear logs and the shoes I am running in need replacing.

I have tried rolling and stretching, both feel good (in a painful way) but neither ever resolved the issues.

As far as cortisone, I would use that as a last resort. Basically you would just be masking the injury and allowing more damage to be done.

Im usually in the same boat with sudden pain being due to old shoes, unfortunately both pairs I train in are under 100 miles.  Needless to say, I still bought a new pair.  And the cortisone shot is really not in the plans, since Im not going to win any races, the need to mask the pain just to race isnt there.

Ive been debating the last couple of days whether or not to give myself a couple weeks off with limited biking, and it seems like this has been echoed by the group.  Kind of the last resort to save the current training plan.  So lots of purple in the training logs.

Thanks for all the input.

I have had IT issues over the years (usually at least once per year for the last 5 years). They come and go, but I found that the onset is usually due to running too many downhills. I have learned to listen to my body and at the first twinge of pain, will cease the activity. I have also noticed that for me I don't need to stop running, just reduce the intensity and distance. I have found that if I do have IT band issues, than anything under 10K is ok and if I keep running and therefore keep loose I recover. I also use a "stick" regularly. I have found that since I started doing Yoga once per week I have not had an issue since.

I have also noticed that if my glutes are tight on one side, that is the side that suffers most from the IT band. So keeping my glutes loose also helps. This is done through stretching and also yoga helps here too.

ITB pain sucks. I had it about 4 years ago. It was disabling. I am not a fan of stretching or rolling becase I think it mearly worsens the inflammation. I developed the issue because of a poor bike fit and mashing. I had a better fitting done and purposely increased my cadance by getting into lower gears more frequently. I still have a slower than average cadance but avoid mashing as much as possible.

It sounds like your issue has come from running. I agree with the shoe fit. Your stride and landing may have changed now that you are stronger or older.

There is no way the MRI photos will have the resolution on this site to be a benefit. Those files are huge and would take a long time to upload. Most e-mail servers will reject them but I would be happy to look at them if they come through.

Cortisone is a 2-edged sword. It is great for decreasing the inflammation but it also impares the wound healing. Same thing with NSAIDS (Ibuprofen, Motrin, Alieve ect) I honestly don't use anything except ice, elevation and active recovery. I suffered a lot during my IM build but made it through with no real injury.

I didn't really dust the Slayer in the pre-race swim plus he beat me out of the water during the race where it really counted. I'm not trying to make any excuses but I started in the middle of the pack thinking that the wave was not real big and would thin pretty quickly. I spent a good bit of time trying to get around packs of swimmers who were fading after the initial couple hundred meters. Slayer started on the outside which was probably a better idea. Plus he ditch his toaster sized wrist GPS early so he could swim even faster. He had no idea I was standing 6 feet away from him while we stripped wetsuits. He thought I was ahead of him so he spent the next couple of hours chasing me.

He woudln't change his runs on nasty icy roads, but I surely would. Thanks.

Ok onto littlewj, we need to know your run down again about your strengths and weaknesses sport by sport, goals for now and future, issues with working out or nutrition, etc. Generally try to provide as much detail as you can summarize so that we can pick it apart and learn from it. Thanks for stepping up in this way.

Well here it is....

Swim - I feel like this potentially could be my strength.  I've only started several months ago but I feel as if I'm progressing nicely. I've had a coach on deck for a couple of sessions and she says that my form is really good.  I just need more swim fitness & harder workouts to get my times down. BTW, where do you guys get your swim workouts from?  I just go to the pool and make up my own sets as I go along.  I have yet to do an OW swim yet.  I'll start that in early May when the water warms.

Bike - Just started biking last summer.  I have a lot of improvement to be had here. I'm stuck inside on the trainer right now. For some reason I just don't have the mental fortitude to stay on the trainer for more than an hour Even with movies & a Sufferfest video.  I bought a road bike from Bikes Direct when I started. It has all Shimano 105 componenents and I added clip-on aero bars. I wish I would have bought a triathlon bike instead.

Running - Another weakness for me. I'm pretty slow but consistent. I do about 99% of my runs at a z2 pace - close to 10min/mi pace. I run about 5 to 6 days a week averaging maybe around 25 miles.

Support - My wife is planning on doing 2-3 sprints this year.  She's been a runner for 20+ years. She completely understands the time it takes. With our kids so young right now it's just a balancing act of who is going to stay home with them while the other is training.

Races - I have a 12k & 10k race planned for early spring.  I'll do 3 sprints and an olympic leading into the A race HIM in early August.

Nutrition - My overall eating habits are pretty good. My wife does all of the shopping and she is very concious of healthy eating habits.  As far as race day nutrition, I need a lot of practice. I'm not sure just yet what I will do to get those 200-300 calories an hour (HIM).  I'll probably just try different products and find what works best for me.

I really think you are off to a great start. Practice transitions before your first sprints and you should do well. I would also keep in mind that it is important to focus on your weakness and limiters. Limiters soon become strengths and expose new weaknesses

Swim: This being a strength is great. Keep at it! Peter is correct that was the worse advice I ever got. Video analysis overwhelmed me with information twice. I think the best is .5-1 hour lessons at least monthly breaking form down piece by piece and putting it all back together with drills.

Jordan is right about the Ga forum Friday swims, but I bet you could google some or buy a cheap book of them.

EDIT to ADD: I take it for granted that everyone has good OWS opportunities like I do. You will need to get out in a lake or pond asap!

Bike: Peter gets alot out of his intense short bikes and I did too. At this point you need to just ride as much as possible. Def time to HTFU and extend past the hour wall!

Run: I like the high volume approach and the article we read said to up it anywhere from 3-10% per week. I think you need to push the volume up more. Perhaps spice it up with some 20"-30" pickups at 10-12k pace with ample recovery within your runs to get used to a quicker cadence and pace? What is your long run distance? 5mi? You need to get that distance up bro.

Its great that she gets it. I'd trade two smaller sessions with your wife for at least one longer one (brick it out even if it starts on the trainer!).

I really think you should try to get comfortable with liquid calories first and switch to solid if need be. Much easier to process. Get a timing method in place where you are fueling every 10-20-30 mins. Somefolks have alarms beep to remind them.

Ok to summarize, you are off to a great start and the conditions are right for a solid entry year! You need to stop giving yourself excuses to not do the longer bike workouts. They need to happen for your taint, muscles, and cardiovascular to be ok during an oly to HIM. We don't want you walking at any point during your run.

At this point, with your comfort level in the pool, I really think the focus goes to longer bike and run workouts and breaking through those end points you are mentioning. Suffer now to make it easier later!

Geez guys - thanks for all of the input. I really do appreciate it. I'm definetely digesting every bit of advice and gonna implement a couple of changes to my training.

Dave - I'll be ordering that book from Amazon. I'll also be asking my swim coach for more specific drills to better develop my form.

You guys are right about my bike.  It seems to fit me pretty well and it's comfortable.  I just need to ride the pizz out of it. My financial planner has declined my request for a new ride anyway. I should be able to get outside within the next couple of weeks for much longer rides. Staying in the saddle for 3+ hours while riding outside isn't a problem. I need to get over the mental block of the trainer. What do you guys think of spinning classes?

I think I'll throw some speed work into my 10 mile long runs for now and see how I feel.  I usually just pick a pace and stick with it until I'm done - only paying attention to my heart rate. 

Thanks again for all of the help!!!!! 

http://www.swimplan.com/

This is the website for generating plans. I pretty much always go to the pool with a plan. I will cut and paste a work-out and print it out. I put it at the end of my lap lane and follow it. When I get tired my mind wanders so it helps bring me back into focus.

The 20 x 200 plan is for an IM swim only. I think it hurt my overall sprint speed because it forced me into a long lazy gliding stroke which was fine for a 1 hour plus swim by would not be ideal for shorter courses. There is no need to beat yourself-up and be in the first group out of the IM swim only to suck wind for the first 20 miles on the bike. You want to come out of the water feeling the same as when you stepped in only warmed up. A sprint and olympic are different, In the sprint you want to be at max effort from the time you start till the time you finish knowing that you only have to keep it up for about an hour. Olympic swims make up a pretty large proportion of the race so the 2-3 minutes you loose or gain by giving an extra effort can make a big difference in your finishing position.

Thanks Peter -I'll check out that website right now.  Do you just put your plans into a ziplock bag so it doesn't get wet?