Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED (Page 20)

Unreal race.  AG win everyone; give it up.  I always say the best shine in the harshest conditions.

Dirk

I appreciate the review and feedback.

I was thinking rest days -- but, agree - to step up my times - will need to increase the training effort. I'll try adding a run tomorrow. May look at adding a second work out on Thursday. My family situation may make stepping up training easier after the end of Feb/Mar - will reassess then too.

thanks

Woooohoooo!!! Awesome Job!!!  That's very exciting.  Maybe you're used to it....but still awesome!

Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa!! Awesome! I hope you don't have any after-effects from the stumble you took mid-race - great job on the AG win!

J

WoW, Nice race Allison! Sounds like it was a really nice one with the fun snow globes, headbands and yummy food. Someone put some creativity into that race!

Congratulations on the age group win!

Great Job on your race, Allison! That is a very cool trophy too.

I ran in the second of the local Frosty Fun Run series races this morning. Being the first week I have run on consecutive days I tried to take it easy and just have fun. I finished 4 miles in 34:11 a little faster than I had planned but not an all out effort either.

The points series age groups are 39 and under and 40+. Not much chance of me making a top 3 in that wide a group. Seems like there are a lot of fast guys in my regular age group (40-44) anyway. I think I would have been 6/8 if they did have the smaller age group breakdowns. I finished 57/94 overall.

I think we had a couple of nice races this weekend - Allison and now Vero! I'm itching to get racing myself.

I did want some feedback on a training plan. It's starting this week, which is a back-off week according to my HM training plan. The runs are basically copy and paste, with the addition of an extra run on Saturday morning - I do that with my wife and we run-walk the whole thing.

My main concern is with the bikes. My focus is on the run for the HM and on my swim form, so the bike is packed around the edges. My long bike is Saturday, before the long run so that concerns me a bit, but it's the only place I can squeeze it. 

My first tri is a sprint in early June, 4 weeks after the HM. The Oly isn't until sep, although I have the opportunity to do one in late July as well.

Mileage increases are from 5-10% per week, with a 30% drop over the recovery weeks.

Okay, I'm done - it's complicated and no-one is required to read it, but please let me know if you think it will work.

John,  I looked at your training plan (and it's a really nice spreadsheet to BTW) and I have some thoughts.

Running:

The running distances look fine for the most part but I am not sure what your running fitness is.  I looked at your logs to check how much you have been running and there is nothing in December to look at.  With that in mind, I see you have speed work already in you running.  I don't think speed work early is a good idea.  I think you should establish a good running base prior to doing speed work.  I think the first 8 weeks would be good to establish that base.  Remember that easy running is going to start you off right because it will prevent injury and also build speed because your fitness will increase as well.

Also I would back your mid week run down 1-2 miles early and then keep them at least a couple of miles lower than you long run and maybe 3 miles lower as you get closer to you peak mileage and the HM.  Your mid week run (or mid-distance run for any given week) should be around half the distance of your long run. 

Speed work at the early stages of it should be much shorter than 6 or 7 miles too.  Maybe you are including the WU/CD in the distance and that would be better it can fry your legs for a day or so.  I see you have a swim scheduled for the day after speedwork too, this can be good to rest the legs but sometimes a bike can help flush the trash out of your legs after a hard run.  This would be entirely up to you.

Bike:

Being a low impact discipline, I suggest really working those distances up fast.  My thoughts are are to at least double you current workload.  The idea is to get a stronger bike fitness that will carry you much better during your race in 4 months and leave you legs more fresh for the run. 

Distances should be something like 12-15 miles for the early rides and 25-30 for the long ride.  You should also get some hard and very hard work in these work outs.  The load dependent on where you are in the ride (WU/CD) and should vary based on the target of the ride.  The easiest way, sometimes, is to just go by miles.  Go hard for a mile and allow a mile recovery and repeat 4-5 times over the ride.  Then as you get used to the efforts hop them up a bit.  Maybe go a half mile really hard (HR screaming at you to stop, but keep going) and another half mile recovery.

Again focus on the idea that the bike is very low impact.  You can take a month to get the distances and a little bit of fitness on the bike put together but in 4 weeks try to start nailing some hard rides.

Swim:

Another area that is much lower impact that can be increased sooner rather than later.  As you progress into this area of training you should start to see some efforts that are a little harder, but as a new swimmer your focus early should be on technique FIRST.  I would try yo get the swims up to 1200+ yards now BUT use at least half the distance to do A LOT of drilling.  The drill are going to establish the technological aspects to your stroke and ensure you are going to be efficient early.

Swims that are of similar overall distance throughout the week will be fine but vary the Main Set (MS) each swim to incorporate differing distances.

On a more important note:  Time can be a major factor here and looking at your avatar you have at least one child and I would caution you to make sure you don't place your training above the time you have with your family.  As a guy we have the propensity to dive head first into our own interests (I have been there) and leave others behind.  Be careful not to forget those around you.  Over the period of my life I have been deeply involved in many things and I have left my family in the dust during those seasons of life.  No lectures, just be careful.

For the others, any thoughts on my comments?

Mostly a repeat of Dirk, but he's rather wise and I like to hear myself talk, so here goes:

John, I agree with Dirk that in prep for the HM your running should be backed down from a pace perspective.  At this stage of your running, I really think the focus should be on just getting the time on your legs with the least risk of injury.  I would suggest all your runs be at that same super easy pace.  I'm not sure any speedwork is needed for a HM at this point.  And while I would tend to agree that those longish middle of the week runs could be trimmed, I would probably add a mile to the 2s and make them 3s, or whatever fits your available time.  That would keep your total time about the same but spread it out a bit more, while still maintaining that long run.

In terms of Oly prep, no doubt I'd add more swimming and biking to that plan early on, again if time allows.  The swim in an Oly is really overemphasized.  The swim is 75% of the HIM distance but the bike and run are under 50%.  I don't really have any specific advice about drills or swim sets, but just be sure you do whatever it takes to be able to swim a mile without much effort.  And no doubt that technique is the whole story there.  You need to get out of the water fresh with plenty left in the tank.

Same with the bike - by race day a 25 miler needs to be no big deal given there's still a 10k ahead.  Since biking and swimming carry far less injury risk, I completely agree that within time limits do as much of them as you can.  Add to those early week 5-10 milers and get them in the hour range.  As Dirk mentions, bike intervals can also really get your bike fitness up quickly.  Hills can provide natural intervals, so if you have hills around you can try hammering them as well.

Keep sending that family time message Dirk.  It's so important, and I need to hear it over and over as I often cross the line.  Get creative if possible to get some workouts in.  For me - besides doing the early AM thing as much as possible, if we're going to the lake for the weekend, I'll try to leave work early and ride up while they drive.  The key here is to talk it over and see what comes out.  I had IM thoughts this year but after our winter meeting, no way was I going to go there.

Jo63 - 2012-01-22 9:26 AM NAME: JoAnne STORY: I am technically challenged so finally getting my info on here was a task I grew up trying random sports in highschool, got married young and had three kids, they are all grown and now it is my time, to do what I want to do. FAMILY STATUS: Married 28 years, three kids, my oldest just got married. JOB: Salon owner, had to recently close my second salon. Just a little stressful CURRENT TRAINING: I'm am training for my first marathon in may, and have added a winter tri training program to keep up my swim and bike. LAST YEAR'S RACES: I completed my first half ironman! 2012 RACES: As I said I am doing a marathon in May and my first full ironman in september. WEIGHTLOSS:  I definetly need to loose ten pounds. WHAT WILL MAKE ME A GOOD MENTEE: I am willing to listen to whatever advice anyone has. I have been doing tris for six years and sometimes feel like I know nothing. My biggest issue is nutrition, I never am quite sure when I should be eating what.

Welcome again JoAnne.  Remember to publish your logs and help us help you.  Sounds like an aggressive year and if I remember you were looking to break out in 2013.  IM Wisconsin is a challenging course.  Good luck.

At the top of the page, click the little wrench picture with the word settings under.  That should bring up a screen of settings.  Then click the words "Training Log Settings", which should be a tab on the top of the page.  That should get you to a screen where the first line is this:

Training log is private?

Uncheck that box, and then be sure to enter your training sessions.  Good luck!

Welcome, Joanne.  We're glad to have you in our group. 

Nice job on your race too, Vero!  That series sounds like a lot of fun. 

Thanks for the spreadsheet, John.  I am definitely going to import my plan into that.  I am working on tweaking it now. 

I have some questions about training times and distances.  My goal race is a HIM in July.  I know I have a ways to go in my training, but I want to make sure I am on track.  For my runs, I am starting to use the 3 2 1 plan at a slow pace and then gradually build my distance.  I am at about 20 miles per week now, with a long run of 6 miles.  Should I be adding about 10% a week?  And then how much are you supposed to back off during the recovery week?  Should that be every 4th week?  I have just started up on swimming and biking again (a few weeks ago) and have been doing those consistently twice a week but could add a third if needed.  A few people mentioned that you can hit those a lot harder than the running.  I am not sure what a reasonable starting distance is for these.  What sort of mileage and yardage should I be at now?  And then should I build at the same rate as the runs from there? 

Joanne,  Welcome back!  I had almost given up hope that you would be back for the session.  Like Warren said, keep the logs up to date so we can help you out as much as possible.  I would also suggest, as time allows, to go back and read all the pages in this group.  This will help you catch up on what's going on and get a feel of who we all are.

John, I don't think you need to go back and update your old logs.  That would take away from training time   I'll just trust that you're on track. 

1. With that in mind, what is you last month MPW?  
2. Have you already done any speedwork?

For the added bike you are talking about you don't need to make it too light.  Being the low/no impact that it is make sure you get a solid effort in while out there.  The bike should be as Warren said, at least an hour for the most part.  I almost always do a 10 min WU/CD and then let the brutalization begin.

There are some solid workouts that you can do to really feel all kinds of pain. 

For instance: this morning's bike was the legendary 6x4' at 100-104% of max lactate steady state.  In summary: this ride is BRUTAL!!! as Warren and Jonathon can atest.  Basically it is 6 ridiculous efforts of high intensity for 4 minutes each.  The 1st two should feel like you are in all kinds of agony.  The 2nd two should feel like there is NO WAY you are going to complete this ride.  The 5th interval, your legs are about to explode, HR is off the charts and you crying like a kindergartener for it to be over AND THEN there is one more effort left.  This one is nothing more than willing yourself to finish and it is supposed to be done a little harder than the other 5 reps already done.

Before doing the above WO though you need to do a test to see where you're HR needs to be.  If you like this can be discussed at a different time.

Also for swimming you need to make sure your swims get to about 1.5 times the race distance.  This is solely my personal opinion and maybe others have differing ideas.  But if there is a place you can cheat your training, it's NOT the swim.  The swim is the only place you cannot give up and sit on the curb.  Also I think it is a very, very good idea to do some OWS's before your triathlons.

And thanks for the spreadsheet that is pretty amazing.  I wish I had the knowledge to create something like that.

For everyone's info, I suggest checking each persons logs occasionally.  You can learn a lot from viewing what a person does.  This is one reason I post my WO's for the swim and bike in the format in which they were done.  You can get ideas to shock your WO's into life after things feel like they have gone stale.  You can also see where you are currently versus where you started.

On a swimming note:  when logging your swims use the time format in this fashion.  10x50 on 1:00 means that you have 1 minute to complete the rep and then rest and start the next rep.  For me it would look like this in practical terms: 40 seconds start to finish of the actual swim and then I have 20 seconds of rest before beginning the next rep = 1 minute.  Basically your time starts when you leave the wall and continues until you leave the wall for the next rep.  Log this info if you can as this will tell a large story by the end of the year.

Edit:

One more thing.  I know you have kids and I believe you have extra time throughout the week during the day that most of us don't have.  Just be careful that your husband and children don't get left on the altar of your dreams.

Dirk: "On a swimming note:  when logging your swims use the time format in this fashion.  10x50 on 1:00 means that you have 1 minute to complete the rep and then rest and start the next rep.  For me it would look like this in practical terms: 40 seconds start to finish of the actual swim and then I have 20 seconds of rest before beginning the next rep = 1 minute.  Basically your time starts when you leave the wall and continues until you leave the wall for the next rep.  Log this info if you can as this will tell a large story by the end of the year."

This is helpful- I log - but not as detailed - and I can see how that will guage performance more than just time/distance.

Do you use a swim training plan? any suggested plans? I'm currently using the OLY workout plan - but no specifics. Where I swim - only a "loose" master program - one guy kinda gives a workout - but its generic and mostly just different ladders.

thanks,

Good run today, Originally scheduled for 10 miles but quicly changed my mind and settled at 7 miles.  For some reason it is not so easy to run in 3 inches of snow, the park crew must have taken the weekend off!

Anyone have thoughts on when it is the best time to jump up to HIM distance.  I really want to do this distance but cannot sell myself on it yet (confidence).  My biggest hold-up is the swim distance, I am looking at an olympic distance but figure if I can do the swim in olympic distance why not go ahead and move up to HIM.  A tentative schedule would be an Olympic in mid-July, then look at late August/early september to do the HIM.

I don't use any swim plans.  What I do I have learned from what others have posted in the past or from some of the WO's my daughter does in high school.  I only have to adapt the times to suit my ability.  One of the keys to designing a WO that fits your level of fitness is the rest interval.  Too long and the set is too easy, too short and you can't hold it and ultimately fail the MS.

I have a fast 50's WO in the pool that I try to do at least once every 2 weeks.  It is pretty easy in the beginning but by the end it is pretty brutal.  I learned this WO from swimming with my daughter a couple of years ago.  The only thing is that she was able to hold the last set at 6x50 on :40 and ended up with around 5 seconds rest.  THATS FAST and hard!

The WO for me looks like this:

I can usually hold :40 for the first three sets but it gets kind of hard by the third set to maintain that same pace.  I am usually very winded and ready for the 1 minute rest before the final set.  The last set is very, very difficult to hold.  The first rep is okay but then it gets harder and harder as the set moves on.  By the last 2 reps I usually hit the wall around :43, leaving very little rest before heading out for the last rep.

You can set this up in a similar fashion but with a little more rest to suit your needs.  I don't remember seeing what your 200 TT was or I might be able to come up with something for you.  Basically your swims should vary the MS by distance for all of your WO's.  (I use about 5 WO's  and alter them as needed.)  The longer the distance for each MS the longer ther rest interval.