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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Based on all of that i think the short answer is NO you do not need a 24 week plan to get there. But... you do need to make sure you are running regularly even when you arent on a plan. If you need a plan to make yourself get out there an run then do the 24 week, otherwise i would think the 16 week would be plenty of time focused training.
I would be interested to see what some of the other runner runners think too! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm gonna email a buddy of mine and see what he thinks. Who are some runners I could ask on BT. I would rather not ask somebody that coaches for a living. That seems like I'm asking something for nothing. I think I know of a few decent people here I could ask. Who do you suggest? |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() El Falco- It sounds like you are young healthy guy and I think you can do it. I trained for about 6 months when I ran a marathon at age 21 (almost 30 years ago), no great time but I finished. The knowledge and technology at that time was so stone age compared to now. Have you picked a marathon? El Flaco - 2009-05-04 8:46 PM Sept. 08 to April 09 is the only break I have taken since I started running regularly again many years ago. So I would say my training is none existent right now, compared to before. I feel like I might be starting from scratch. That is why I'm eyeballing the 24 week deal. In some of the runs I have had recently I have felt OK and I have been pleased with the pace, all things considered. I have faith I could go out and hold 7:30's for a half-mary at least. When I set my PR I consulted with one of the Wichita running "Gods" and he wrote a plan for me. I had trained with him quite a bit leading up to me asking for help so he knew what I was capable of. I think it was a 18 week plan but I had been racing much faster than I am currently. My long run the first week was 15. I remember that much. Based on previous experience I haven't had trouble staying focused on a plan. By nature I'm a very competitive person and if I set a goal and put some "friendly reminders" around the house I have been able to achieve the desired result. With the exception of 2:59 or less! When I was on his plan I was running 70-75 miles a week and that was all I did. Thank goodness my SO is totally supportive and helps me all she can. It just seemed like it was wake up, run, work, run, shower, then crash. There are several plans that I have at my disposal, they range from 50 to 90 miles a week and last from 18 to 24 weeks. I don't think I want to run 75 miles a week for 24 weeks. So I guess what it boils down to is: Based on my current fitness and time between now and the goal race what is the least amount of time that I need to follow a plan to get me there. The distance doesn't scare me it is just covering it and still having fitness in the tank. I think I have a decent understanding of my body and what I need to do it to get it to do a 3 hour marathon. Maybe it's more mental than physical. I just need a little help!!!! I appreciate all the input I can get. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() El Flaco - 2009-05-05 11:11 AM I'm gonna email a buddy of mine and see what he thinks. Who are some runners I could ask on BT. I would rather not ask somebody that coaches for a living. That seems like I'm asking something for nothing. I think I know of a few decent people here I could ask. Who do you suggest? Ok I would normally suggest TexOma as he is a great runner and him and I think similarly on training but he is away on holiday with his wife at the moment. (he can be terrible at keeping his logs up to date too) Definatley talk to JoeBWan in our mentor group as he seems to have his head really in a great spot re: running Sesh is also another great person to talk to re: training. He isnt on BT as much as he used to be but is around when you need some help. Like Tex he thinks similarly to how i do re: training and I trust his advice. Finally WaterDog66 - running freak and you will never meet a nicer guy! If you want me to get in touch with any of them let me know! Edited by kaqphin 2009-05-04 9:09 PM |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() First try will definitely happen in Wichita, Ks in Oct. if the goal doesn't happen then, I will go do the White Rock Marathon in Dallas, TX in Dec. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Who are some runners I could ask on BT. I would rather not ask somebody that coaches for a living. That seems like I'm asking something for nothing. I think I know of a few decent people here I could ask. Who do you suggest? LazyMarathoner WaterDog66 Scout7 You could also look at the RR's and see who did a marathon recently. (edited because the Quote thingy got messed up.) Edited by D001 2009-05-04 9:27 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() D001 - 2009-05-05 12:26 PM Who are some runners I could ask on BT. I would rather not ask somebody that coaches for a living. That seems like I'm asking something for nothing. I think I know of a few decent people here I could ask. Who do you suggest? LazyMarathoner WaterDog66 Scout7 You could also look at the RR's and see who did a marathon recently. (edited because the Quote thingy got messed up.)I thought of suggesting K but not sure how methodical she is with her running |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kaqphin - 2009-05-04 10:28 PM D001 - 2009-05-05 12:26 PM Who are some runners I could ask on BT. I would rather not ask somebody that coaches for a living. That seems like I'm asking something for nothing. I think I know of a few decent people here I could ask. Who do you suggest? LazyMarathoner WaterDog66 Scout7 You could also look at the RR's and see who did a marathon recently. (edited because the Quote thingy got messed up.)I thought of suggesting K but not sure how methodical she is with her running I suggested her because I think she's done NYC and Chicago. So she may have some suggestions on training plans and/or preparation. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() D001 - 2009-05-05 12:33 PM kaqphin - 2009-05-04 10:28 PM I suggested her because I think she's done NYC and Chicago. So she may have some suggestions on training plans and/or preparation. D001 - 2009-05-05 12:26 PM Who are some runners I could ask on BT. I would rather not ask somebody that coaches for a living. That seems like I'm asking something for nothing. I think I know of a few decent people here I could ask. Who do you suggest? LazyMarathoner WaterDog66 Scout7 You could also look at the RR's and see who did a marathon recently. (edited because the Quote thingy got messed up.)I thought of suggesting K but not sure how methodical she is with her running Oh yeah... she has done a lot of marathons! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() El Flaco - 2009-05-04 9:23 PM First try will definitely happen in Wichita, Ks in Oct. if the goal doesn't happen then, I will go do the White Rock Marathon in Dallas, TX in Dec. Hey, Flaco~ I think that 24 weeks is way too long to train, personally. I know you think you've been out of it for a while, but if you ran consistently for years, you have a really good aerobic base underneath it all and can build pretty quickly on it. Personally, I have to disagree with your Jim Bush quote, because I have realized the most significant increases in my times by spending more time running slowly than I have by running shorter distances fast. Last year, when training for a half marathon, I only trained for two months. I started with a 5K time a little over 28 minutes. I ran always in the aerobic heartrate zone (zones 1-3), aside from two exceptions - Tuesdays, I did a hill workout (hill training is really important in PA) and Thursdays, I joined a group at the track for their speed workout. On my weekend long runs, I added 10% to my distance each week until I ran 11 miles about a week and a half before the half marathon, then I only ran short runs of 3-4 miles very slowly for the remaining time. Much to my own surprise, I ran the entire, very hilly, half marathon at an 8 minute pace without feeling like I was really pushing it at all. I was so sure I was going to run out of steam, that I was afraid to push my pace, but I actually finished the race feeling like I had left quite a bit in the tank. Long story not made short: If you want to try that method, you can calculate how loing it will take to get to your desired distance. You would take your desired ending training distance (say 21 or 22 miles), subtract 10% each week: 22 - 10% = 19.8 miles 19.8 - 10% = 17.8 17.8 - 10% = 16 miles 16 - 10% = 14.6 miles 14.6 - 10% = 13.1 miles 13.1 - 10% = 11.8 miles 11.8 - 10% = 10.6 miles 10.6 - 10% = 9.6 miles 9.6 - 10% = 8.6 miles and keep doing that until you arrive at your current long run training distance. Count the number of weeks and you know your MINIMUM amount of training time. I would add in a couple of weeks for extra rest or whatever life-factors might come up to make your training inconsistent. Brad Kearns ("Breakthrough Triathlon Training") doesn't think you should do more than one or two "Key Workouts" (those where you go aerobic or push your long distance further than normal) per week and rest is much more important than most training plans allow. I heartily agree. BTW - I think that's an awesome goal! It's going to be exciting seeing you get there through whichever method you choose. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Good in sight JoeB! After thinking a bit last night and having a good discussion with my SO I think I have settled on a plan. So here is what I'm gonna do....I think. Gonna continue to build my aerobic base by running and cycling until I'm about 18 weeks out. Then I'm gonna implement the 18 week plan. First week has 33 miles with the high being 55-58. So I'm gonna build until I'm able to cover 30 miles a week. Then go from there. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() El Flaco - 2009-05-05 9:14 PM Good in sight JoeB! After thinking a bit last night and having a good discussion with my SO I think I have settled on a plan. So here is what I'm gonna do....I think. Gonna continue to build my aerobic base by running and cycling until I'm about 18 weeks out. Then I'm gonna implement the 18 week plan. First week has 33 miles with the high being 55-58. So I'm gonna build until I'm able to cover 30 miles a week. Then go from there. Sounds like a great way to go about it! Get your training in... and then start a plan... great you have support at home too |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I got an appointment with a sports med Dr. this afternoon. My left knee is the reason I'm going, but now my right achilles is tight from running yesterday and I fell like me gait is really off today. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoeBWan - 2009-05-05 6:51 AM El Flaco - 2009-05-04 9:23 PM First try will definitely happen in Wichita, Ks in Oct. if the goal doesn't happen then, I will go do the White Rock Marathon in Dallas, TX in Dec. Hey, Flaco~ I think that 24 weeks is way too long to train, personally. I know you think you've been out of it for a while, but if you ran consistently for years, you have a really good aerobic base underneath it all and can build pretty quickly on it. Personally, I have to disagree with your Jim Bush quote, because I have realized the most significant increases in my times by spending more time running slowly than I have by running shorter distances fast. Last year, when training for a half marathon, I only trained for two months. I started with a 5K time a little over 28 minutes. I ran always in the aerobic heartrate zone (zones 1-3), aside from two exceptions - Tuesdays, I did a hill workout (hill training is really important in PA) and Thursdays, I joined a group at the track for their speed workout. On my weekend long runs, I added 10% to my distance each week until I ran 11 miles about a week and a half before the half marathon, then I only ran short runs of 3-4 miles very slowly for the remaining time. Much to my own surprise, I ran the entire, very hilly, half marathon at an 8 minute pace without feeling like I was really pushing it at all. I was so sure I was going to run out of steam, that I was afraid to push my pace, but I actually finished the race feeling like I had left quite a bit in the tank. Long story not made short: If you want to try that method, you can calculate how loing it will take to get to your desired distance. You would take your desired ending training distance (say 21 or 22 miles), subtract 10% each week: 22 - 10% = 19.8 miles 19.8 - 10% = 17.8 17.8 - 10% = 16 miles 16 - 10% = 14.6 miles 14.6 - 10% = 13.1 miles 13.1 - 10% = 11.8 miles 11.8 - 10% = 10.6 miles 10.6 - 10% = 9.6 miles 9.6 - 10% = 8.6 miles and keep doing that until you arrive at your current long run training distance. Count the number of weeks and you know your MINIMUM amount of training time. I would add in a couple of weeks for extra rest or whatever life-factors might come up to make your training inconsistent. Brad Kearns ("Breakthrough Triathlon Training") doesn't think you should do more than one or two "Key Workouts" (those where you go aerobic or push your long distance further than normal) per week and rest is much more important than most training plans allow. I heartily agree. BTW - I think that's an awesome goal! It's going to be exciting seeing you get there through whichever method you choose. Great info there, thank you for that. As is struggle with my run, i am always looking for this sort of thing, basically now i am looking for speed on the run, i have incorporated hills during my weekly runs and i am seeing immediate benefits. What kind of excercise duration does it take to go aerobic?? I had a sprint Du this past weekend, and the first run was probably z2 maybe a little z3, the bike was a total flat out effort and the last run was back into z2-z3 pace once the calf cramps left, I finished in 1:17 is that enough time to get aerobic?? Or is the actual effort what gets me aerobic?? Is training at a z-1, z-2 pace an aerobic or anerobic effort?? Does one become the other depending on total time?? Sometimes i just need to HTFU and run, it is the only discipline that I wuss out in, I can go flat out on my bike, and my swim times are plummetting, but the run is stagnant, which is why i did 2 Du's this spring, it just sucks being at the BOP on first run, make up 50 spots on bike, then lose 30-40 those on second run....fortunatley Tri season starts the end of this month, but let me tell you, i learned quite a bit in those two Du's, about racing and about myself. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Um... yeah... sorry I've been a bit AWOL lately. I'm back now. ![]() I haven't read through the five pages of posts since the last time I checked in, but I made it one of my goals for today to read through. For now, just a quick check-in for me: I did my half marathon on Sat. It was cold and raining and surprisingly not that bad. I mean, the run part sucked, especially the last 3 miles. But I did it. By the time I got to the finish line, though, I was completely used up on energy and emotion, and I started crying when I saw my finish time. Slow. SLOW. SLOOOOOW. I didn't even entertain the possibility of taking 3:15 to do the 13 miles. At the time, it was very upsetting. Half an hour later, though, when I did the math, it wasn't that surprising. I mean, I had hoped to better than 14 min/miles, but that was what it was. I rested on Sunday, and enjoyed an evening with friends. But work stress got to me yesterday. I worked from home, and let myself wallow in my stress. I wound up spending the entire evening on the couch, playing Bejeweled and eating half a container of ice cream. Ugg. So, today, my first goal was to "no wallow." So far, so good. On Friday, to get ready for our 79 mile ride around Tahoe, I went and bought a bunch of cycling magazines. To continue the theme, another of my goals for today is to set up a training plan to take me through the next couple of weeks. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I saw the Doctor and found out I have arthritis in my left knee. I guess I really am getting old. I got a script for an anti inflamatory pain reliever and physical therapy which starts Monday, I will also be taking glucosamine chondroitin. The Doctor suggested I spend alot more time on the elliptical than trying to run. I told him I want to run even if I walk/run but I want to be able to run 5K by July. He said we'll see. I am just about to do my internet research on the subject.He didn't mention anything about orthotics but I will also see a podiatrist too. losta - 2009-05-05 12:45 PM I got an appointment with a sports med Dr. this afternoon. My left knee is the reason I'm going, but now my right achilles is tight from running yesterday and I fell like me gait is really off today. Edited by losta 2009-05-05 6:34 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() losta - 2009-05-06 2:45 AM I got an appointment with a sports med Dr. this afternoon. My left knee is the reason I'm going, but now my right achilles is tight from running yesterday and I fell like me gait is really off today. Hopefully you get some answers - come back and let us know what he says! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() losta - 2009-05-06 9:31 AM I saw the Doctor and found out I have arthritis in my left knee. I guess I really am getting old. I got a script for an anti inflamatory pain reliever and physical therapy which starts Monday, I will also be taking glucosamine chondroitin. The Doctor suggested I spend alot more time on the elliptical than trying to run. I told him I want to run even if I walk/run but I want to be able to run 5K by July. He said we'll see. I am just about to do my internet research on the subject. losta - 2009-05-05 12:45 PM I got an appointment with a sports med Dr. this afternoon. My left knee is the reason I'm going, but now my right achilles is tight from running yesterday and I fell like me gait is really off today. Hi, Clearly I was too early with my above post. There are lots of people on BT that have had trouble with arthritis so I think its a matter of managing it more than anything. You can probably do the elliptical for some of your run workouts (especially while you are startign out and are still trying to loose a little weight etc). What did he think about just walking as an option? Water running is another excellent otion that has no major impact on your joints! Some people have been forced to do the majority of their run training this way with some success. There are some great articles here on BT about it too!!! Also race walking is another option to look into... although the doc may feel its a bit too much impact. Hang in there.... there are lots of options! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() madkat - 2009-05-06 8:30 AM Um... yeah... sorry I've been a bit AWOL lately. I'm back now. ![]() I haven't read through the five pages of posts since the last time I checked in, but I made it one of my goals for today to read through. For now, just a quick check-in for me: I did my half marathon on Sat. It was cold and raining and surprisingly not that bad. I mean, the run part sucked, especially the last 3 miles. But I did it. By the time I got to the finish line, though, I was completely used up on energy and emotion, and I started crying when I saw my finish time. Slow. SLOW. SLOOOOOW. I didn't even entertain the possibility of taking 3:15 to do the 13 miles. At the time, it was very upsetting. Half an hour later, though, when I did the math, it wasn't that surprising. I mean, I had hoped to better than 14 min/miles, but that was what it was. I rested on Sunday, and enjoyed an evening with friends. But work stress got to me yesterday. I worked from home, and let myself wallow in my stress. I wound up spending the entire evening on the couch, playing Bejeweled and eating half a container of ice cream. Ugg. So, today, my first goal was to "no wallow." So far, so good. On Friday, to get ready for our 79 mile ride around Tahoe, I went and bought a bunch of cycling magazines. To continue the theme, another of my goals for today is to set up a training plan to take me through the next couple of weeks. I LOVE reading cycling magazines... I havent bought one for ages so I might try and stop past Borders on the way home now youve mentioned it to see whats around for a bit of a read!!! I find it helps get me all motivated too Edited by kaqphin 2009-05-05 6:41 PM |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Rudedog55 - 2009-05-05 1:25 PM JoeBWan - 2009-05-05 6:51 AM El Flaco - 2009-05-04 9:23 PM What kind of excercise duration does it take to go aerobic?? I had a sprint Du this past weekend, and the first run was probably z2 maybe a little z3, the bike was a total flat out effort and the last run was back into z2-z3 pace once the calf cramps left, I finished in 1:17 is that enough time to get aerobic?? Or is the actual effort what gets me aerobic?? Is training at a z-1, z-2 pace an aerobic or anerobic effort?? Does one become the other depending on total time?? I don't have much time right now, but I'll write more later. However, I really like this article because of how it describes the training zones: http://www.howtobefit.com/five-heart-rate-zones.htm I hope it helps in the meantime! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Super Cats 'To Do' List (revised - to exclude things Ive actually don) - Traning solo vs training with a group - what, when etc - How to plan your swim training - Triathlon race day: What to wear, transition, what to expect - Cycle training Anyone got anything else Ive missed? Run training was on this list but we've covered alot of that? Keep he thoughts/updates etc coming! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I think I'm mostly caught up. Sorry to hear about all the knee issues! Yikes! Although I think I'd find a new doctor if mine told me "we'll see" about running a 5k. At least I'd get a second opinion. Flaco, I have no advice on the training plan. But I have to say that you've always been an inspiration to me, so I'm sure you'll find something that will do the job. ![]() Me... I'm still wallowing on the couch. OK, I'm not really wallowing, but I'm still on the couch. I just looked on the calendar and see that there are 4 weeks until the big 79 mile ride. Counting backwards, I think I can manage it, if I aim to add 10 miles a week to my long rides. May 10 - 39 miles May 17 - 49 miles May 24 - 59 miles May 31 - 69 miles June 7 - 79 miles Of course, Sunday is Mother's Day, and I'm sure we'll be involved in some kind of gathering for Eric's mother. In an effort to lower my stress level, I've backed out of the planning for that. I might put in my vote for scheduling a ride sometime during the day. Maybe we can have a picnic someplace that's 40 miles from our house? ![]() So, that's a good start, and I think I can easily build up to the distance. But that won't help me build up the strength to tackle some of the bigger climbs. I don't know how much I can do in 4 weeks, but I'm going to give it a go. I've been reading in the current Bicycling magazine about how to climb, and they suggest hill repeats at least twice a week. That seems like a lot, compared to what I've seen for running, but maybe the legs recover a bit faster from cycling because of the lack of impact. Dunno. But I'm gonna aim to do two interval sessions on the trainer a week, unless I can get out and ride. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() madkat - 2009-05-07 9:14 AM I think I'm mostly caught up. Sorry to hear about all the knee issues! Yikes! Although I think I'd find a new doctor if mine told me "we'll see" about running a 5k. At least I'd get a second opinion. Flaco, I have no advice on the training plan. But I have to say that you've always been an inspiration to me, so I'm sure you'll find something that will do the job. ![]() Me... I'm still wallowing on the couch. OK, I'm not really wallowing, but I'm still on the couch. I just looked on the calendar and see that there are 4 weeks until the big 79 mile ride. Counting backwards, I think I can manage it, if I aim to add 10 miles a week to my long rides. May 10 - 39 miles May 17 - 49 miles May 24 - 59 miles May 31 - 69 miles June 7 - 79 miles Of course, Sunday is Mother's Day, and I'm sure we'll be involved in some kind of gathering for Eric's mother. In an effort to lower my stress level, I've backed out of the planning for that. I might put in my vote for scheduling a ride sometime during the day. Maybe we can have a picnic someplace that's 40 miles from our house? ![]() So, that's a good start, and I think I can easily build up to the distance. But that won't help me build up the strength to tackle some of the bigger climbs. I don't know how much I can do in 4 weeks, but I'm going to give it a go. I've been reading in the current Bicycling magazine about how to climb, and they suggest hill repeats at least twice a week. That seems like a lot, compared to what I've seen for running, but maybe the legs recover a bit faster from cycling because of the lack of impact. Dunno. But I'm gonna aim to do two interval sessions on the trainer a week, unless I can get out and ride. Oh I LOVE talking about cycling Sounds like you can get the distance built up no problems! In terms of the other sessions yuo are spot on... you need to work on leg strength for those hills so hill repeats even if its just simulated seated climbs on the trainer will make enough of a difference in the next 3 weeks (assuming the 4th week you will be backing off before the ride) for it to be worth it! Promise! Bicycling magazine is for cyclists not triathletes but I think 4 rides a week would be excellent if you can fit it in... one easy/recovery type ride, 1 LONG ride, and 2 leg strength type sessions. You can include seated/standing climbs and also sprints/TT efforts... all will load the legs and give you STRENGTH which is what you are aiming for right? |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Some of yall post very long posts...lol I just got back from the gym..it started thundering so I had to cut my swim short, but I lifted and biked some. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks Madcat, I am going to see a sports med podiatrist next Tuesday and see if there is anything that could be done with body mechanics, stride etc that will lessen the blow to my knee. Losing weight will help too. I'm not giving up. If all I can run is 5K I'm ok with that. madkat - 2009-05-06 7:14 PMI think I'm mostly caught up. Sorry to hear about all the knee issues! Yikes! Although I think I'd find a new doctor if mine told me "we'll see" about running a 5k. At least I'd get a second opinion. . |
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