'The' Gun Thread

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 7:47 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/us/tennessee-gun-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday. No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said.

The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning. The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

It's irrelevant what type of gun owner he considered himself because his actions proved that he was not a responsible gun owner. There's no question that accidents will happen, and it's probably not an untrue statement to say that accidents will go up as gun ownership continues to go up.

People die every day from accidents. According to the CDC there were 120,859 accidental deaths in 2010 from all causes. Do you know how many were from accidental firearm discharges? 606

The 606 number is by far the lowest category of accidental deaths tracked by the CDC, so using it to bolster the gun control argument is even worse than going after "assault rifles" IMHO

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/deaths_2010_release.pdf

The irony of this story is that it was a police officer who, under any gun control legislation proposed by anyone would still be able to have his gun. So, no matter what you can't legislate away accidents.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 8:54 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/us/tennessee-gun-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday. No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said.

The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning. The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

So what would you have done about this tragic event?

1.) It was during a weekend cookout. I highly doubt he was coming on or off his shift. I highly suspect a couple of beers were had.
2.) He was showing them to friends in his bedroom. This likely means he kept his pitol in his bedroom. It's highly unlikely there's a gun safe in that bedroom.
3.) The pistol was apparently left lying on the bed unsupervised.
4.) It is certain a live round was left in the gun.

Lots of fail here. Not an accident, but disregard for basic safety.

Edited by pitt83 2013-04-09 8:11 AM

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

afrotcdan - 2013-04-09 8:06 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 8:54 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/us/tennessee-gun-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday. No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said.

The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning. The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

So what would you have done about this tragic event?

Agreed. Although this event was tragic and no one ever wants to see something like this happen, what is the answer to stop it.

There's not one becasue accidents happen. Under the assumption that accidents have to be completely taken out of our world, I guess we need ban all cars being driven, all alcohol being consumed, all foods that lead to unhealthy lifestyles, and while you're at it kill all the predatory animals that have the potential to kill us.

yup,

to put it in context from the CDC data I posted above.
Accidental Death's by cause in 2010:
Motor Vehicle Accidents: 35,332
Other Land Transport Accidents: 1,029
Falls: 26,009
Accidental Discharge of Firearm: 606
Drowning: 3,782
Accidental exposure to smoke/fire/flames: 2,782
Accidental poisoning or exposure to noxious substances: 33,041 (this one actually surprised me)
Unspecified non-transport: 16,678

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 8:09 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 8:54 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/us/tennessee-gun-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday. No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said.

The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning. The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

So what would you have done about this tragic event?

1.) It was during a weekend cookout. I highly doubt he was coming on or off his shift. I highly suspect a couple of beers were had. 2.) He was showing them to friends in his bedroom. This likely means he kept his pitol in his bedroom. It's highly unlikely there's a gun safe in that bedroom. 3.) The pistol was apparently left lying on the bed unsupervised. 4.) It is certain a live round was left in the gun. Lots of fail here. Not an accident, but disregard for basic safety.

I agree with your summary, but only want to add that it's more on the likely side of the scale that he had a gun safe in the bedroom. I have all my guns in the bedroom in a safe and many people I know do as well.
We obviously don't know any of the facts in this case, but it's highly probable for him to take a buddy up to his room to retrieve a gun from a safe and accidentally left it on the bed, or set it on the bed and wasn't paying attention.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 6:09 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 8:54 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/us/tennessee-gun-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday. No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said.

The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning. The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

So what would you have done about this tragic event?

1.) It was during a weekend cookout. I highly doubt he was coming on or off his shift. I highly suspect a couple of beers were had. 2.) He was showing them to friends in his bedroom. This likely means he kept his pitol in his bedroom. It's highly unlikely there's a gun safe in that bedroom. 3.) The pistol was apparently left lying on the bed unsupervised. 4.) It is certain a live round was left in the gun. Lots of fail here. Not an accident, but disregard for basic safety.

Ok but that still doesn't answer my question you just listed how the guy failed. The guy was a sheriff so all of the laws and bans wouldn't have stopped this because it was one mans horrible mistake. So again yes this is a tragedy but what would you do about this?

Edited by Big Appa 2013-04-09 8:39 AM

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 9:34 AM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 6:09 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 8:54 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/us/tennessee-gun-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday. No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said.

The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning. The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

So what would you have done about this tragic event?

1.) It was during a weekend cookout. I highly doubt he was coming on or off his shift. I highly suspect a couple of beers were had. 2.) He was showing them to friends in his bedroom. This likely means he kept his pitol in his bedroom. It's highly unlikely there's a gun safe in that bedroom. 3.) The pistol was apparently left lying on the bed unsupervised. 4.) It is certain a live round was left in the gun. Lots of fail here. Not an accident, but disregard for basic safety.

Ok but that still doesn't answer my question you just listed how the guy failed.

fixing any one of those fails means she's alive today. Any of these simple steps changes this careless "accident"

1.) Use your gun for it's intended purpose: work
2.) Show your guns in a safe location like the range, not at home during a cookout
3.) Put your gun away properly in a safe or trigger locked when you're done with it.
4.) Obviously, DON'T leave a live round in the gun!

None of these are new gun control, but responsible gun ownership measures.

Edited by pitt83 2013-04-09 8:42 AM

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 6:38 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 9:34 AM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 6:09 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 8:54 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/08/us/tennessee-gun-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday. No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said.

The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning. The couple were hosting family and friends at their house when Daniel Fanning and a relative went into a bedroom to check out some of Fanning's guns, Helm said. Josephine Fanning and the boy walked into the room later, and at some point the boy picked the loaded pistol up off the bed.

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

So what would you have done about this tragic event?

1.) It was during a weekend cookout. I highly doubt he was coming on or off his shift. I highly suspect a couple of beers were had. 2.) He was showing them to friends in his bedroom. This likely means he kept his pitol in his bedroom. It's highly unlikely there's a gun safe in that bedroom. 3.) The pistol was apparently left lying on the bed unsupervised. 4.) It is certain a live round was left in the gun. Lots of fail here. Not an accident, but disregard for basic safety.

Ok but that still doesn't answer my question you just listed how the guy failed.

fixing any one of those fails means she's alive today. The most basic HAS to be leaving a live round in the gun. Foolish.

We all here agree with that just like any person with a lack of judgement but as far as being out raged by guns this was a Sheriff so no gun laws or bans would have helped this.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 7:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

Well, he was clearly wrong.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Hook'em - 2013-04-09 10:02 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 7:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

Well, he was clearly wrong.

That's more my point than anything. Someone tells me they are a responsible gun owner, I roll my eyes and keep my kids the heck away. I'm not making any larger point than that. Although I see, from some the responses, that they think I am.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:17 AM

Hook'em - 2013-04-09 10:02 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 7:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

Well, he was clearly wrong.

That's more my point than anything. Someone tells me they are a responsible gun owner, I roll my eyes and keep my kids the heck away. I'm not making any larger point than that. Although I see, from some the responses, that they think I am.

I am a gun owner. I own over 50 of them.

What you actually do, Tealeaf, is find any anectodal story you can and try to add your spin to it. In this case you said something aloong the line of, "no doubt he considered himself a responsible gun owner"...something that was never part of the story or ever said by anyone but you. Then you tried to reinforce it with your post above about how you roll your eyes whenever you hear that.....which you clearly did NOT hear in this case....you just made it up to fit your agenda.

It's a tragic accident. That's all.

Edited by Left Brain 2013-04-09 9:25 AM

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 10:22 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:17 AM

Hook'em - 2013-04-09 10:02 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 7:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

Well, he was clearly wrong.

That's more my point than anything. Someone tells me they are a responsible gun owner, I roll my eyes and keep my kids the heck away. I'm not making any larger point than that. Although I see, from some the responses, that they think I am.

I am a gun owner. I own over 50 of them.

I am not.

Your point?

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

My responce was to this snarky line at the end where I asked what would you do with the situation. I also think the guy was wrong and his job should be affected along with whatever the local law is about this kind of thing.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:25 AM

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 10:22 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:17 AM

Hook'em - 2013-04-09 10:02 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 7:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

Well, he was clearly wrong.

That's more my point than anything. Someone tells me they are a responsible gun owner, I roll my eyes and keep my kids the heck away. I'm not making any larger point than that. Although I see, from some the responses, that they think I am.

I am a gun owner. I own over 50 of them.

I am not.

Your point?

Sorry, hiot the worng button before I was finished.....you should have my point now. Or maybe like Pitt, you can "highly suspect" I hit the wrong button because alcohol is involved. (THAT'S the kind of thing that makes me roll MY eyes)

Edited by Left Brain 2013-04-09 9:30 AM

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 10:26 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

My responce was to this snarky line at the end where I asked what would you do with the situation. I also think the guy was wrong and his job should be affected along with whatever the local law is about this kind of thing.

I just keep my kids away from guns. If gun owners take that personally, are offended by it, or think I'm overreacting, well, I don't really care.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:28 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 10:26 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

My responce was to this snarky line at the end where I asked what would you do with the situation. I also think the guy was wrong and his job should be affected along with whatever the local law is about this kind of thing.

I just keep my kids away from guns. If gun owners take that personally, are offended by it, or think I'm overreacting, well, I don't really care.

I don't let my kids play with kids who's parents don't own guns.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 10:31 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:28 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 10:26 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

My responce was to this snarky line at the end where I asked what would you do with the situation. I also think the guy was wrong and his job should be affected along with whatever the local law is about this kind of thing.

I just keep my kids away from guns. If gun owners take that personally, are offended by it, or think I'm overreacting, well, I don't really care.

I don't let my kids play with kids who's parents don't own guns.

We own a baseball bat, though. Perhaps your kids could teach mine to throw the baseball bat at other people.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 7:28 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 10:26 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

My responce was to this snarky line at the end where I asked what would you do with the situation. I also think the guy was wrong and his job should be affected along with whatever the local law is about this kind of thing.

I just keep my kids away from guns. If gun owners take that personally, are offended by it, or think I'm overreacting, well, I don't really care.

I didn't say anything about your kids at all I just asked a question to a snarky remark thats all and I didn't have any mean intent behind the question I was just wondering your opinion.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:33 AM

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 10:31 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:28 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 10:26 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

My responce was to this snarky line at the end where I asked what would you do with the situation. I also think the guy was wrong and his job should be affected along with whatever the local law is about this kind of thing.

I just keep my kids away from guns. If gun owners take that personally, are offended by it, or think I'm overreacting, well, I don't really care.

I don't let my kids play with kids who's parents don't own guns.

We own a baseball bat, though. Perhaps your kids could teach mine to throw the baseball bat at other people.

My brother could teach them that....and it's handy if someone tries to bully them. I've seen it firsthand....unbelievably effective.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 7:49 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:33 AM

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 10:31 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:28 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 10:26 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

My responce was to this snarky line at the end where I asked what would you do with the situation. I also think the guy was wrong and his job should be affected along with whatever the local law is about this kind of thing.

I just keep my kids away from guns. If gun owners take that personally, are offended by it, or think I'm overreacting, well, I don't really care.

I don't let my kids play with kids who's parents don't own guns.

We own a baseball bat, though. Perhaps your kids could teach mine to throw the baseball bat at other people.

My brother could teach them that....and it's handy if someone tries to bully them. I've seen it firsthand....unbelievably effective.

LB as much as you don't like what Tea is saying you are the yin to her yang. Both of you sound silly and you are the one trying to argue to make her upset and it makes us as gun owners look bad.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 9:51 AM

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 7:49 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:33 AM

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 10:31 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 9:28 AM

Big Appa - 2013-04-09 10:26 AM

tealeaf - 2013-04-09 5:47 AM

No doubt this deputy would have considered himself a so-called "responsible gun owner."

My responce was to this snarky line at the end where I asked what would you do with the situation. I also think the guy was wrong and his job should be affected along with whatever the local law is about this kind of thing.

I just keep my kids away from guns. If gun owners take that personally, are offended by it, or think I'm overreacting, well, I don't really care.

I don't let my kids play with kids who's parents don't own guns.

We own a baseball bat, though. Perhaps your kids could teach mine to throw the baseball bat at other people.

My brother could teach them that....and it's handy if someone tries to bully them. I've seen it firsthand....unbelievably effective.

LB as much as you don't like what Tea is saying you are the yin to her yang. Both of you sound silly and you are the one trying to argue to make her upset and it makes us as gun owners look bad.

Gee, thanks Appa, I needed you to tell me how silly this is.......all along I thought it was serious.

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Subject: RE: 'The' Gun Thread

Left Brain - 2013-04-09 7:54 AM