Baowolf's Fun In the Sun Mentor Group (OPEN) (Page 22)

Hi All,

Question to Steve and other serious cyclist - Im finishing my starting season with a Rebel Tour cycle - I have 2 route options

1. 160km with elevation gain of 3116 metres - http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/364228505
2. 85km with elevation gain of 1761 metres - http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/364258201

which one should I pick? I'm really tempted by the longer route to finish strong my very succesful summer, but at the other hand I never did more than 85km (once) and 5times 70km cycles, so I'm affraid I might not finish the 165km route or I might pick up some injury. I feel pretty strong on the bike but have never sit on a bike more than 4-5 hours in one go (hope you know what I mean). They will be stops and refreshments and no difficult cut off times, but still would like to know your opinion.
please let me know soon as the registration closes tmrw night

You hit most of them Steve. I just started swimming today and was surprised that I felt it in my rear delts.....and back but that was expected. I'd do rows unilateral for the simple reason that we use one arm at a time to pull in the water. Grab a d-handle, sit up straight, and row one at a time...put your non working hand on your lat muscle to make sure you're hitting it...then reverse. 2 rear delt exercises....bent over rows and reverse pec dec. The last exercise I'd consider is upright rows but you have to be careful with these because they can inpinge your shoulder and cause injury. So I'd either do these very light to start or forget about it because I know you have some shoulder issues Steve.

The pool is finally reopened so I splashed around quickly. I'm shocked at how fast your cardio goes in one sport when you don't practice it. I'm still staying true to the slow/steady concept. A few hours after the pool and lifting, I got out and did 3 miles. I was hoping for a slightly faster pace than I ran but I'll take it. Tomorrow, I'm going to go long....5 or 6 not sure yet.

Carl - Thanks. I take away many more positives than negatives from the experience. With a temp swing of 10-20 degrees would have made such a huge difference. Not sure how youall handle it in Texas because I was not made for heat like that and still I worked through it . Still feel like I am recovering. The wet sneaker rub a small patch of skin off my ankle, my energy level is not there yet, and the kink in my back between the shoulder blades has not worked itself out yet. Otherwise, things are great. It certainly give much more respect for those in IM training mode. Have you started the training plan yet, How is it going?

drtroll - Looking at the route info you posted, I'd say there are two things working against you. One is the distance and two is doubling the elevation gain. If you are seriously concerned about injury, you should probably stick to the shorter route. There are guidelines about how much to increase distance/time each week of about 10%. If your concern is injury, then I'd recommend going shorter.

Joe, grats on hanging in there, it sounds like you dug deep to get er done. There are statistics for different races. IMCDA is usually an 8 ish percent DNF rate and IMLT was closer to 33% last year (something like 1000 dns/dnf). I had a question, did you stay wet for the entire run and did you run in socks? If temps are above 90F I will dump a cup of water over my head every water stop (or down the front of my jersey. Also people put ice down the front of their jersey, sometimes in their hat if it is really hot. I have done 3 IMs in 95F+ temps and a him in 105F temps. I would not have tried to put on a jersey for the bike over wet skin unless it was freezing cold and I needed a jacket for the heat. What was the DNF cutoff time for your race, I'm guessing 8:30:00?

You can increase more than 10% per week on the bike, but usually not more than 10-15 miles to your long ride per week. Your butt and back won't tolerate it even if your legs do. The jump from 50 miles to 100 miles is huge.... unless you really like to suffer and such I would go with the 50 mile ride and enjoy the day. It usually takes me about 8 weeks to go from a long bike ride of 50 miles to a long of 100, sometimes 10 weeks. And your route is not flat... so if it is also warm... I would do the 50 and enjoy the day, maybe hit the 100 next year.

For the spot in your back behind your shoulderblades, use ice, and I would take some ibprophin for a week or 2. Add some gentle stretching and rest.

Edited by Baowolf 2014-09-09 10:41 PM

Jay, thanks, ya I had impingement a year ago so badly I couldn't put a belt on. I slacked off on the balance issues as my workouts got up closer to 20 hours a week. I also tore a rotator cuff in that right shoulder in college.

Steve - The cut off time is listed as 8 hours. Interesting stats on the DNF and it makes sense that weather would play a big factor as most people should be in decent shape to participate. I chose to go sockless on the bike and stuck with that for the run. Think I might have feared locking up trying to get them on. I stopped at every station. I had a towel my wife picked up at Lowes made by Mission Athletics. It was a very nice late edition and I kept it wet as long as the stations were out and when it started to get dry after they pulled the support is where I really figured it was time to call it a day. I did get ice and tried using it in various places including under the hat. Mostly I ate the ice though.

Feeling more energetic today and looked at info on local Rev3 event for the weekend. lol, I kinda thought about it.

I would be really reluctant to go sockless for a HIM or IM. Do you have the zoots or whatever designed specifically for sockless shoes? For me it is not worth the 30 seconds to chance having blisters for 12 hours.

Balance is really what it is all about. It is tough as heck to pull off though as everything in life affects it. Just looking at my IM build while recovering from the last IM I made maybe 30 adjustments to my workouts that were on paper. Then when you are traveling or working with multiple commitments. You all will laugh, but when we are traveling I might leave the family to pack up the tent and get a 1 hour headstart on running towards the next location and have them pick me up along the way. Once on the way to Santa Barbara for Thanksgiving we hit some nasty traffic jam and I was tempted to unhook my bike and ride to see how far I got before they caught up. When I was allergic to the lake in Wisconsin I put in noseplugs and goggles and that really cut down the lake effect. I run at work during lunch and that is not always easy to pull off.

Now balancing the emotions, relationships, work commitments, finances, fun, and spirituality, those are harder to keep in check. Sometimes it feels like balancing bowlingballs on top of each other. But we don't have to obtain balance so much as persue it and know which direction we need to move towards when we find ourselves out of balance. Some of it is letting go of the little things. A guy cuts you off on the freeway, your boss lays their job on you, someone gets mad at you for trying to help, your kids freak out on you for keeping them safe in some way that they don't understand, you get hurt just before a big race... etc. We do not control the outcome, just the direction we steer our life towards. You make good decisions, adjust to bad decisions and try to make the outcome of your choices better for all (fruit of your labor). Patience, forgiveness and love. Forgiveness is a powerful tool towards obtaining balance, perspective allows you to understand that other people can have a bad day too and letting go of trying to control things we can't reduces anxiety.

(Our group members who have been around longer know that I waine philosophical during injury and taper...). Take care and have a good day.. or you won't.

Edited by Baowolf 2014-09-11 12:55 AM

Steve, I do love the philosophical times, but am glad when it's taper and not injury for you!

I'm in one of those times right now. Decided after being rested from our trip that hubby is retiring and I'm (hopefully) going back to work full time. For the last few years, I've been doing part time bookkeeping work and taking care of my FIL, all things household, etc. FIL is moving to memory care, probably within the week. Lots of changes and adjustments to be made. Limbo is not my favorite place to be, but a necessary part of change. What I do know is that it's important for me, physically and mentally, to be active and outdoors. So I will find a way, just don't know what exactly it looks like yet.

You weight lifters are making me give some thought to that. I'm really not keen on joining a gym since I like to be outside. But I've been walking a few miles lately and stopping at the park exercise station to do some partial body weight exercises. Leaning pushups, leaning pull ups, bicycles, leg lifts, etc. Just got my bike shoes back from CA, so that is an option again. Hint: always check what the FedEx clerk types for your address when you ship stuff back home!

A quick check in to see where everyone is at, and I am seeing great posts that I need to come back to read soon!

Buried with work these days, so my forum reading and triathlon training for that matter suffers a bit. Plus this ankle injury does not seem to go away!!!

I just wanted to mention that I decided to volunteer at the 70.3 HIM Championships last weekend in Tremblant (2-hour drive for me!).
I signed up on a whim on Saturday afternoon, I suddenly had a thought that I could not miss this opportunity!!!

I was at a run aid station, so we got to see every athlete 4 times (2 back and forth loop).
Javier Gomez, Jan Frodeno, Sebastian Kienle, Andreas Raelert, Meredith Kessler, Catriona Morrisson and many others... all beasts!!!!

Very, VERY impressive stuff. Plus I had a couple of friends on the course, it was ideed a fun day

I promised myself I would be back in Tremblant to do a HIM some day...

Some thoughts on weight lifting since a few have asked. I'm not a personal trainer but I do have one on speed dial if I have a question.

In my experience there are really 2 options for lifting: circuit or strength.

Strength training is exactly like it sounds....limiting reps between 1-5 and trying to get stronger. I have read some articles that suggest that endurance athletes should do strength training because you naturally lose muscle as you do those long runs, bikes, and swims. I believe this to be true...and even if I didn't, I love to be strong so it is true If you decide to do this, stick to compound movements. Bench press for chest, pull ups for back, military press for shoulders, squats for legs. (very basic examples) More theory...there are some people that advocate NO arm exercises because compound movements with chest/shoulders/back hit arms indirectly. I do arms but if you're really putting in a lot of miles and just want to get in a little bit of weights...skip the arms. Instead of 3x5 for back/biceps...you do 5x5 back to compensate. I also cutout legs as I start putting on miles with run/biking...I just think its not worth the additional pounding. Calves, maybe. I currently do 3 days a week. I do chest/triceps, back/bicep, shoulders/traps. I do 10 sets, 3 reps each. I do the compound exercises I mentioned above. Also, if you do decide to do 3x per week, skip a day between shoulders/chest...if you don't, you'll feel a lot weaker on whichever day you hit 2nd because chest hits shoulders hard and vice versa.

Circuit training is now better known as Crossfit to most people these days. It is some weight training with cardio mixed in. I've done my own version of Crossfit with my wife and it does work. She lost some weight and I did a HM doing weights with a few short runs. Simply put, 2-3 days per week fullbody workout. Personally, I believe you should focus on bodyweight exercises as much as possible. It helps you with functional strength and there's less risk for injury compared to doing heavier weight. A quick example of a circuit that you can do without a gym: Chest: push ups, Triceps: diamond push ups Back: pull ups (use monkey bars in a park?) Biceps: chin ups Legs: Bodyweight squats Shoulders: keep your legs straight and bend over do your hands are flat on the ground. (ideally in a V position) from there, do push ups....this should hit your shoulders more because you're closer to a handstand pushup position) Abs: planks/torso twist. After your first set, run a quarter mile (or bike, swim, whatever)....do this for 3 sets...the BW exercises and cardio of your choice. You will improve your strength and cardio with this

That's about as basic as I can make it. Do with this as you choose

Thanks Jay! I like this idea a lot! Thinking it may be just what I need. I used to lift some (mostly barbell strength class at the gym), and tended to strengthen up/build muscle pretty well. We have a park exercise station w/ bars, slant board, etc.+ picnic tables, and a couple football fields. So one round of the strength ex you mention, run a lap around the 1/2 mile park loop or eventually sprints on the FB field, repeat. Do that 3X/week. Will have to modify some at first, but can work into it. Then I could ride my bike on weekends. Sounds workable and efficient with minimum weekday time investment and as you said, low injury potential. Appreciate it Coach Jay!

Glad I could give you something that you like Carol....but can we please drop the coach

I'm very excited right now! I just finished a 4.75 mile run and for the first time since my AT, I ran a sub 9 pace! That is huge for my motivation to keep up with my cardio AND I didn't feel like I had to give everything to get that pace. I was just running with some push at times...but I was never death or staring at my Garmin saying hold this pace.....I just ran! When you add on that I'm nearly as strong as I was 4.5 years ago when I was 20lbs heavier....I'm pretty darn pleased with what I'm doing right now.....I think I'm finally starting to live the mantra on the bottom of my posts....and its been way too long since I've really done that!

Steve, how difficult would it be in theory to do a HIM and then an IM within 3 months of each other?

Hi all. yes I'm still alive but had lots of RL stuff the past week+ which has taken all my time. Trying to get back at it with runs, and went out today and enjoyed it. Been eating like garbage, but stress can do that. Overall, things are OK, and the philosophical bent the group has taken is good to read.

Congrats on the awesome race finishes.

My first tri ever was 4 years ago tomorrow!

Following

If you are training for an IM, you can do a HIM along the way as close as 6-7 weeks before your IM. You will be trained more than you need to for the HIM because you are training through it to get to the IM. So if you do a HIM you can take a 1-2 week taper, 1-2 week recover build 2 weeks then taper 3 for the IM. The HIM would fall within your 20 to 30 week training plan as your long bike day/run day on the weekend. So not a problem at all. What you can't do is half arse train for a HIM and then expect to build from there to an IM in 6 weeks. So if your long bike is only 50 miles there is no way you are going to get in 3 100 mile rides within the 3 weeks right after a HIM. So you need to already be at the 80 to 100 mile range for the bike when you do the HIM if it is fairly close to your IM. Make sense?

Thanks Steve, that does make sense. I'm thinking about a HIM in June and then an IM in September (maybe) If I'm reading your advice correctly, I should probably be at 70-80 for a bike long at that point to make this a doable goal. I'm thinking that even with a two week taper post HIM race and a two week taper near the IM, I still have 4 weeks to get in 4 80+ rides....or is that cutting it too close? I'm most worried about the bike because I struggle with motivation to bike....swim and run I'm fine with.

Edited by medeiros13 2014-09-13 3:34 PM

I ran a half in DC today and we turned around at a light when leaving and saw I recognized the "exorcism" steps at Georgetown University. Now I've always been a big basketball fan..terps and hoyas. I met NBA stars Roy Hibbard and Jeff Green running drills on the steps. Roy asked me to run with them. Nice guys. I put a pic on Facebook.

Survived my HIM alot of unexpected things , did not PR but not as bad as the last one report to follow results are not in yet

@ Steve
I appreciate the philosophy makes me realize anything bad happens should balance out somewhere.

@Jay
I hope your wifey is on board on your IM goal . What i meant onboard shes ok with your 15+ per hour/week . I have some minimalist training plans for IM if you want that takes minimal time but not for PR.

@Isabelle
Good job on the volunteering its good karma. I am sure you'll be back IMMT 70.3 at the starting line


@Carol
Glad your enjoyed the bay area,Ca . I envy your diligence in strength training thats one thing i need to consider.

@Linda
i saw the pics with the NBA stars coolness!!!

Happy Training Fellas

Summer is almost over

Cheers

Carl

Jay, ya getting in a couple 3 ride of 80-90 ish miles prior to the HIM, 1 week lite, 1 week a recovery week level then 2 build weeks at 100 ish, 1 week recover, 1-2 weeks at 100 ish then 3 week taper to IM would be ideal.

RR here:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

@Dennis
thats a strong climb there can only imagine.

@ Steve
any advice to be strong in running in HIM. I focused too much on the bike thinking if i have a stronger bike ill be strong on the run.


Cheers

Carl

Basically you need to double to triple your monthly run miles and then you will be strong in the HIM run. You basically have to run to get better on the run. 8).