kenj mentor group - back for another great season! CLOSED (Page 24)

CONGRATULATIONS - such an awesome accomplishment!!!! 

Ken, I would LOVE detailed info on your testing if you want to share and have a few minutes (maybe after you get the results). Okay, Bombardment:

• Did you do this based on your new coaches recommendation?
• Are you doing it for the run too?
• What was the process/protocol like?
• How often do you think you'll repeat the process?
• How do the results compare to your field testing?  when I field test on a good day I get LT results that I just know I can't hold for an hour long race effort, but I guess its good to train at a slightly higher level since I never just get on a trainer and go balls-out for 40k, etc.
• Where did you get it done? Hard to find a reputable outfit to do the testing? If one didn't live in N/W NY, is there a good resource for finding a provider?
• Cost? not necessarily how much it cost you, but do you think its worth it?
• Anything else you want to share that I'm not thinking of...

As you might be able to tell, the scientific nature of true LT test intrigues me.

Jambago, Congrats on your first Marathon.  If you running is your weakest tri-sport, just make sure you keep them up during HIM training, especially if you are doing Toughman.  If you are using a BT custom plan, you can dictate "run focus" to increase frequency.  I think any HIM will have enough run volume to get you through, just make sure you are doing some hills over the summer.  It doesn't have to be hard hill repeats, you can incorporate them into your z2 training and just keep the pace nice and slow.  Toughman has a serious run, but it doesn't feel that bad because it is so varied, with smooth trails, lots of shade, nice sights, but still, no shortage of hills.  There is only one serious hill on the bike, and its at the beginning of each of the 2 loops, so you have some nice recovery time before the run if you pace the bike.

That's great Becky!  Glad you got out there this morning!  I love the dawn runs and watching the world around me come to life!

Something that my swim coach had me do and I still do from time to to time is vertical kicking.  It does require the  pool having a deep end but it forces a good kick and some core strength as the alternative is sinking to the bottom.  Scull with your arms until you get proficient with the kick for 20 - 30 seconds.  Repeat 4 times and when you get better hold your hands out of the water and twist 90 degrees from your hips.

Updates:

I'm surviving my stint as a "single dad", getting in all of the workouts except for swimming, with some minor adjustments.  My better half will be back on duty tomorrow, but then I have a lot of work to catch up on.

Last weekend was full of minor fails, and lessons learned:

Biking - Tried to do a 5 minute bike power test and just couldn't hold it.  Even tried twice.  So the lesson learned is that the fairly steep gains I made in bike power after recovering from IMAZ was short lived.  The BT bike plan isn't meant to be combined with a heavy run schedule and now I know why.  I'll keep at it, but probably just stop testing and be accepting when I bonk or fail on a hard trainer day.  I'll just take any small gains I can get and start really working on the bike outside, in May.

Running - my long run on Sunday called for 16 miles including 60 minutes at goal Marathon pace (what ever that is).  I tried to hold my goal marathon pace but was :10/mile slower and could still only hold it for 30 minutes.  My quads were toast and it hurt the rest of the long run.  The lesson here is that my marathon goal is probably far to ambitious based on my run fitness.  Since starting tris I've done all my runs by heart rate and let the pace fall where it will, except for racing, when it's more RPE, but even then I keep my eye on HR for longer races as a sanity check.  So when I started an advanced marathon plan that bases everything on "race paces" of various distances, I converted everything to HR.  I don't really know what my 5k, 10k, or marathon paces are currently.  I haven't run any of these distances for time, without a swim and a bike leading up to them.  But I did want to do any runs that called for "marathon pace" with my goal pace.  Now I think that if I do that, I'll have runs that end up wrecking the whole next week.  maybe the 3+ months of heavy running and a taper will help with the pacing later on, who knows...

Along that line, my HR zones "feel" right and I seem to test consistently, at least on the run.  At what zone would you run a standalone marathon? I was thinking of it as zone 3, or tempo.

No problem Bill, I can answer these I think.

1. Yes, he scheduled a test and gave me the choice of the blood test or a 30 minute all out effort.  He recommends this manner as being more accurate.
2. No, not yet anyways.  He is using my race pace vs. HR at this point and most of the training is at easy pace for now.
3. After a warm up, we started at a175 watts and every 4 minutes a blood sample and HR was taken and then the power was increased 25 watts and repeated every 4 minutes until the lactate level exceeds a certain point. I can't remember what that was.  Then after a recovery, an all out 1 minute test where 2 numbers are taken, one upon completion and another 1 minute later to measure the rise.  I guess this is part of the endurance measurement.
4. 6 weeks or so is the recommendation.
5. It was lower than my last field test, but that wasn't a surprise.  But I thought it would be closer than it was.  I was struggling to hold the bottom of the old numbers in some workouts so I guess it will be about right and be at the middle of the zones.
6. I did it at my coaches house.  I hadn't looked into doing the test this way prior so I couldn't answer the availability of other testers.
7. He charges $35.00, I don't know if that is comparable or not.  I will let you know in November when I complete my season if it was worth it or not.
8. The blood part of it is nothing more than a pin and an electronic monitor so it was really minimally invasive. Physically it was easier than the other protocols, but the ideas is to set the zones accurately so I think this is a good process.

I am with you Bill, part of what keeps me into triathlons and the training is the science of the training. 

It is a much tougher if you can't find a race, but you should run an all out 10k to determine what you paces should be.  That way you aren't over training and risking potential injury.  You are right about the other issue being that mixing the 2 plans you are attempting to mix are very difficult as they are both intense and designed for minimum intensity in other sports. 

Wow, that is quite a schedule DJ!  I'm jealous as most of that time will still be trainer time here!  Which Gran Fondo are you thinking of doing?

DJ--we should meet up at the Skinny Tire Festival!

Congratulations on the marathon and the Goofy!

Loved reading about the LT blood testing, partly because I kind of dread my testing weeks.  I would take a needle any day.

I'm sore today.  So hard not to overdo it while I am supposed to be doing base training.  There's only so much Zone II riding on a trainer I can take, so I did a Sufferfest video yesterday (which I highly recommend, by the way).  Today, though, I can tell I'm sore and tired out.  Such a trick to balance between the right amount of training stress (not to mention work stress and broken washing machine stress, etc!)  I was thinking about logging a daily "stress" score based on how I feel to force me to pay more attention and try to avoid injury/illness.  Anyone ever tried something like this?

Understand that!  I did the one in San Diego a couple of years ago, lots of climbing but a lot of fun!

I have heard that the Sufferfest videos are very good at making you work. I don't think that a ride or 2 a week in Z3 with some Z4 work thrown in will hurt at all. 

Work and washing machine stress, well can't help much there I guess.  Best of luck with those!

Off to the trainer for an hour and 3/4 ride.  It is supposed to be Saturdays long ride, but I have more time  this morning than tomorrow or Saturday with my travel schedule, so off I go!

How are the rest of you doing this week? 

With running, an all out effort costs sooo much in recovery time for me. Also, if i don't do at least a partial taper beforehand my pacing will be off anyway. I am doing a HM next weekend and that should give me a ballpark, but there won't be any tapering for that. Then there is training route selection. I like to mix it up and some of the turns I take really kill my pace. I'm afraid that if I get too hung up on pace, I'll pick boring flat loops. So for now at least, i guess it is HR for the run.

As for mixing focus on bike and run, you're absolutely right. But I'm like a kid at Baskin Robbins who can't pick one flavor...Happy training all.

Sorry to hear about your dog and hope your son gets better!

I stayed home from work yesterday.  One of my dogs is getting older and having trouble getting around.  We took her to the Vet to see how we can control the pain for to live out the rest of her life.  Heartbreaking watching your best friend get old.  We never had kids, so our dogs kinda filled that gap for us.  I have to admit, we are probably overly emotionally attached because of it.

We test once a month on the bike/swim.  Last night was the first one of the new year.  On the diet my coach has me on he generally doesn't want me going more than 80% on the bike and it's pretty hard to sustain that right now.  Last night though I did half the 20 minute test just under FTP before I blew up and had to back off to 80%.  Coach seemed to think that was a pretty solid effort right now.  Tonight, I gotta make my way to the pool for T-pace test.  Not sure how that's going to go.  I've been sick a lot lately and have spent minimal time in the pool.  Plus, I'm not really sure how the diet will effect my effort in the water yet.  I'm sure it will be interesting, but my coach is telling me not to worry about the numbers right now.  I'm losing weight and my body is responding better to only having fat as a source of energy, which are the main things.

Hey Bill, I used to get sooooo hung up on specific workouts/intervals/distance before I was with my coach.  I ignored any kind of testing.  It's interesting how he fits these in and I never thought of doing this.  Typically, I'll have 2 weeks of heavy training and then an "easy" week.  Every other "easy" week is testing.  I'll have an extra rest day Monday, an easy run/spin on teusday then test on the bike wednesday, the swim thursday, then regular rest day on friday.  The weekend will then be one long bike instead of 2 long bikes and maybe a short swim or run.  Just thought that might help you if you want to start throwing some testing in your plan.

Cool that you went for testing. I'm actually going Saturday for some. Not sure exactly what I'm getting done yet, I'll talk to him more then. 

Since getting and using my Garmin I've realized how off my other devices were. Mapmyrun on my iphone was off about .05 miles every mile. My HRM was WAYYY low sometimes. As you can see from my logs, my pace had to significantly decrease to maintain a HR, which is really discouraging. Oh well, something to work harder for. 

Look forward to the testing to establish my proper zones, tri season is around the corner!

Hope everyone is well!

Have you tried the "easier to beg for forgiveness than ask permission" approach?

Never mind, thats a bad idea!

Sorry about loosing your pup Eddie!  I hope your son gets feeling better and that your week gets back on track!  But, that is why we start this in January, that way when life gets in the way we still have time to get back on track!