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Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: (Page 25)
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 2011-03-04 9:34 AM in reply to: #3382246 |
Champion  4835     Eat Cheese or Die |  Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI:crusevegas - 2011-03-04 7:44 AM UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 9:12 PM How nice. While the media has largely ignored the fact that Gov. Walker has illegally shut down the Capitol to protesters the last few days, the most ridiculous part is that he has also made it very difficult for legislators to get to their offices as well. This is Rep. Nick Milroy, a really nice guy from up North who I had the pleasure of talking to for a good while on Tuesday. Truly wants to work in an environment where legislators can discuss issues, not stand on party lines and ignore debate. (warning: slightly NSFW) I thought you were all in favor of people breaking the rules if they felt strongly about it....... Or is that just when it benefits you? That was me. And yes, I don't like rule breakers when they oppose what I want. It's well established that I am a hypocrite. |
| 2011-03-04 9:38 AM in reply to: #3382431 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: coredump - 2011-03-04 7:28 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-04 9:10 AM coredump - 2011-03-04 6:50 AM scoobysdad - 2011-03-04 8:36 AM UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 11:12 PM Illegally shut down? Hmm, interesting. Despite having hours in which the Capitol is open, the protesters decided to ignore them and make the Capitol their own personal campground. I'd say that's illegal. Capitol officials have estimated the protesters and their gross mistreatment of the building have already caused $7 million in damages and clean-up costs. In addition, their presence is costing the State $3-4 million a week in additional police and security fees. Guess they're not too worried about the financial shape of the State. BTW, because police have openly said they cannot guarantee the safety of anyone entering the Capitol building, business and school groups have had to cancel their appointments to meet with their legislators and tour the Capitol. So, who's denying the public access and trampling on people's rights again? How nice. While the media has largely ignored the fact that Gov. Walker has illegally shut down the Capitol to protesters the last few days, the most ridiculous part is that he has also made it very difficult for legislators to get to their offices as well. This is Rep. Nick Milroy, a really nice guy from up North who I had the pleasure of talking to for a good while on Tuesday. Truly wants to work in an environment where legislators can discuss issues, not stand on party lines and ignore debate. (warning: slightly NSFW) So, you are against the right of people to assemble because it's inconvenient to tour groups? So, are you for protestors destroying the capitol and limiting the states ability to conduct business? Destroyed the capitol? I hadn't realized the building was demolished by the protesters. When did this happen? The $7 milllion cleanup cost has not been confirmed, it's one estimate, it's not a firm cost. Will it cost something to clean up? Yes. Will it cost $7 million? I think probably not, but you're welcome to speculate. Until it's confirmed, it's just speculation though. As for the illegality of restricting access, the judge who ruled on this *did* find the restrictions unconstitutional. He did also rule that the protesters cannot camp out in the rotunda, and that they can be restricted from entering the area where the legislative offices are located. However, they cannot be restricted from entering the building during business hours, or during anytime the legislature is in session (if they remain in session outside of normal business hours). I think that's a just decision and one that I agree with. Despite the protesters it seems the state assembly was still able to work on legislation, so I'll also call your "limiting the states ability to conduct business" as a great exaggeration. I honestly didn't think my loaded/silly question deserved an answer any more than your loaded/silly question did, but thanks. Why are we all of a sudden worried about people following the rules/constituion/laws/court orders now? FWIW, I think he should be following the court order. |
| 2011-03-04 9:40 AM in reply to: #3382435 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: RedShark - 2011-03-04 9:29 AM coredump - 2011-03-04 8:50 AM scoobysdad - 2011-03-04 8:36 AM UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 11:12 PM Illegally shut down? Hmm, interesting. Despite having hours in which the Capitol is open, the protesters decided to ignore them and make the Capitol their own personal campground. I'd say that's illegal. Capitol officials have estimated the protesters and their gross mistreatment of the building have already caused $7 million in damages and clean-up costs. In addition, their presence is costing the State $3-4 million a week in additional police and security fees. Guess they're not too worried about the financial shape of the State. BTW, because police have openly said they cannot guarantee the safety of anyone entering the Capitol building, business and school groups have had to cancel their appointments to meet with their legislators and tour the Capitol. So, who's denying the public access and trampling on people's rights again? How nice. While the media has largely ignored the fact that Gov. Walker has illegally shut down the Capitol to protesters the last few days, the most ridiculous part is that he has also made it very difficult for legislators to get to their offices as well. This is Rep. Nick Milroy, a really nice guy from up North who I had the pleasure of talking to for a good while on Tuesday. Truly wants to work in an environment where legislators can discuss issues, not stand on party lines and ignore debate. (warning: slightly NSFW) So, you are against the right of people to assemble because it's inconvenient to tour groups?
So can I go with a group of 1000 people and sit in the oval office? NO. Your comment is ridiculous on it's face. I didn't realize the protesters were sitting in Walker's office. I thought they were in the public section of a public building. Silly me. |
| 2011-03-04 9:40 AM in reply to: #3382449 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: graceful_dave - 2011-03-04 7:34 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-04 7:44 AM That was me. And yes, I don't like rule breakers when they oppose what I want. It's well established that I am a hypocrite. UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 9:12 PM How nice. While the media has largely ignored the fact that Gov. Walker has illegally shut down the Capitol to protesters the last few days, the most ridiculous part is that he has also made it very difficult for legislators to get to their offices as well. This is Rep. Nick Milroy, a really nice guy from up North who I had the pleasure of talking to for a good while on Tuesday. Truly wants to work in an environment where legislators can discuss issues, not stand on party lines and ignore debate. (warning: slightly NSFW) I thought you were all in favor of people breaking the rules if they felt strongly about it....... Or is that just when it benefits you? And I appreciate your honest hypocricy <sp> I just want to hear Mad say the same thing.  |
| 2011-03-04 9:42 AM in reply to: #3382461 |
Extreme Veteran 312 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: coredump - 2011-03-04 9:40 AM RedShark - 2011-03-04 9:29 AM coredump - 2011-03-04 8:50 AM scoobysdad - 2011-03-04 8:36 AM UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 11:12 PM Illegally shut down? Hmm, interesting. Despite having hours in which the Capitol is open, the protesters decided to ignore them and make the Capitol their own personal campground. I'd say that's illegal. Capitol officials have estimated the protesters and their gross mistreatment of the building have already caused $7 million in damages and clean-up costs. In addition, their presence is costing the State $3-4 million a week in additional police and security fees. Guess they're not too worried about the financial shape of the State. BTW, because police have openly said they cannot guarantee the safety of anyone entering the Capitol building, business and school groups have had to cancel their appointments to meet with their legislators and tour the Capitol. So, who's denying the public access and trampling on people's rights again? How nice. While the media has largely ignored the fact that Gov. Walker has illegally shut down the Capitol to protesters the last few days, the most ridiculous part is that he has also made it very difficult for legislators to get to their offices as well. This is Rep. Nick Milroy, a really nice guy from up North who I had the pleasure of talking to for a good while on Tuesday. Truly wants to work in an environment where legislators can discuss issues, not stand on party lines and ignore debate. (warning: slightly NSFW) So, you are against the right of people to assemble because it's inconvenient to tour groups?
So can I go with a group of 1000 people and sit in the oval office? NO. Your comment is ridiculous on it's face. I didn't realize the protesters were sitting in Walker's office. I thought they were in the public section of a public building. Silly me.
The point is that buildings have rules - the Capitol is not a 24 hour fast food joint. They are not telling people they can't protest. It seems that the DNC keeps people blocks away during their convention and I never saw you complain about that. |
| 2011-03-04 9:46 AM in reply to: #3382462 |
Champion 4835 Eat Cheese or Die | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-04 9:40 AM graceful_dave - 2011-03-04 7:34 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-04 7:44 AM That was me. And yes, I don't like rule breakers when they oppose what I want. It's well established that I am a hypocrite. UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 9:12 PM How nice. While the media has largely ignored the fact that Gov. Walker has illegally shut down the Capitol to protesters the last few days, the most ridiculous part is that he has also made it very difficult for legislators to get to their offices as well. This is Rep. Nick Milroy, a really nice guy from up North who I had the pleasure of talking to for a good while on Tuesday. Truly wants to work in an environment where legislators can discuss issues, not stand on party lines and ignore debate. (warning: slightly NSFW) I thought you were all in favor of people breaking the rules if they felt strongly about it....... Or is that just when it benefits you? And I appreciate your honest hypocricy If the tables were turned, would you be okay if the protesters were breaking rules/laws for something you agree with? Not trying to be a dbag myself, asking more out of curiosity then anything else. |
| 2011-03-04 9:49 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: A friend of mine (who happens to be a WI teacher at a community college) is circulating a link to this video and urging friends to write to the Governor and tell him they want to choose kids instead of roads. Seems a little disingenuous to me....really?...choosing kids instead of roads? Is the Gov proposing to eliminate....totally eliminate...funding for education? No. Is the Gov proposing to take all education funding and put that money towards roads? No. It is not an either/or situation as the video suggests. The bridge in our town was closed for several weeks last summer to make needed renovations to gusset plate fixtures....the same exact gusset plate design by the way that failed and led to the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis several years ago that killed many people. Clearly our highway infrastructure is in need of additional money. But, if people don't want to make some cuts to education and increase funding for highways I guess its OK if a school bus plunges into a river due to a bridge collapse because increased money wasn't available to fix/renovate the bridge..... Edited by Birkierunner 2011-03-04 9:52 AM |
| 2011-03-04 9:51 AM in reply to: #3382473 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: graceful_dave - 2011-03-04 7:46 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-04 9:40 AM If the tables were turned, would you be okay if the protesters were breaking rules/laws for something you agree with? Not trying to be a dbag myself, asking more out of curiosity then anything else. graceful_dave - 2011-03-04 7:34 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-04 7:44 AM That was me. And yes, I don't like rule breakers when they oppose what I want. It's well established that I am a hypocrite. UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 9:12 PM How nice. While the media has largely ignored the fact that Gov. Walker has illegally shut down the Capitol to protesters the last few days, the most ridiculous part is that he has also made it very difficult for legislators to get to their offices as well. This is Rep. Nick Milroy, a really nice guy from up North who I had the pleasure of talking to for a good while on Tuesday. Truly wants to work in an environment where legislators can discuss issues, not stand on party lines and ignore debate. (warning: slightly NSFW) I thought you were all in favor of people breaking the rules if they felt strongly about it....... Or is that just when it benefits you? And I appreciate your honest hypocricy I just want to hear Mad say the same thing. It's for the most part pretty difficult to answer what if questions honestly and accurately and honestly, if you have a specific situation that is occuring I'd be happy to look into it. I ain't to chior boy, but I'm a big supporter of the 5th amendment. |
| 2011-03-04 9:55 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: First off, I love how we have gone off on different tangents that really have little to do with the underlying major issues of the topic. Its like there needs to be new ways to find ways to manufacture outrage so the issues at hand are ignored. I dont understand how it is seen as unreasonable that a public building has hours of business and that allowing folks unauthorized access doesnt cause issues. If this is the new standard, then i am all for a pajama jammy jam with smores at the local library. Really this has only been interesting in that it has unveiled a shocking level of what folks think they are entitled to. I shudder to think if we as a country ever came into real dire straights like in the depression. |
| 2011-03-04 9:58 AM in reply to: #3382480 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Birkierunner - 2011-03-04 9:49 AM A friend of mine (who happens to be a WI teacher at a community college) is circulating a link to this video and urging friends to write to the Governor and tell them they want to choose kids instead of roads. Seems a little disingenuous to me....choosing kids instead of roads? Is the Gov proposing to eliminate....totally eliminate...funding for education? No. Is the Gov proposing to take all education funding and put that money towards roads? No. It is not an either/or situation as the video suggests.  The bridge in our town was closed for several weeks last summer to make needed renovations to gusset plate fixtures....the same exact gusset plate design by the way that failed and led to the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis several years ago that killed many people. Clearly our highway infrastructure is in need of additional money. But, if people don't want to make some cuts to education and increase funding for highways I guess its OK if a school bus plunges into a river due to a bridge collapse because increased money wasn't available to fix/renovate the bridge..... Don't worry, Birkie. The Stimulus money will take care of our most pressing infrastructure needs. Oh, wait. By "infrastructure" the Democrats didn't mean our crumbling roads and bridges. They meant "not-so high-speed rail". They just neglected to mention that until after the bill was passed. Of course, we had to pass the bill first so we could find out what was in it. You know, turns out I didn't like what was in it too much. I'm going to DC with a bunch of my friends and we're going to try to camp out round the clock in the national Capitol and tape signs around the Rotunda including the priceless paintings. How do you think that will work out for me? Due democratic process is being hijacked here, folks. There's no other way to say it. Edited by scoobysdad 2011-03-04 10:05 AM |
| 2011-03-04 10:03 AM in reply to: #3382494 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: scoobysdad - 2011-03-04 7:58 AM Birkierunner - 2011-03-04 9:49 AM A friend of mine (who happens to be a WI teacher at a community college) is circulating a link to this video and urging friends to write to the Governor and tell them they want to choose kids instead of roads. Seems a little disingenuous to me....choosing kids instead of roads? Is the Gov proposing to eliminate....totally eliminate...funding for education? No. Is the Gov proposing to take all education funding and put that money towards roads? No. It is not an either/or situation as the video suggests. Don't worry, Birkie. The Stimulus money will take care of our most pressing infrastructure needs. Oh, wait. By "infrastructure" the Democrats didn't mean our crumbling roads and bridges. They meant "not-so high-speed rail". They just neglected to mention that until after the bill was passed. Of course, we had to pass the bill first so we could find out what was in it. You know, turns out I didn't like what was in it too much. I'm going to DC with a bunch of my friends and we're going to try to camp out round the clock in the national Capitol and and tape signs around the Rotunda including the priceless paintings. How do you think that will work out for me? Doe democratic process is being hijacked here, folks. There's no other way to say it. The bridge in our town was closed for several weeks last summer to make needed renovations to gusset plate fixtures....the same exact gusset plate design by the way that failed and led to the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis several years ago that killed many people. Clearly our highway infrastructure is in need of additional money. But, if people don't want to make some cuts to education and increase funding for highways I guess its OK if a school bus plunges into a river due to a bridge collapse because increased money wasn't available to fix/renovate the bridge..... You worry to much, WI has pleanty of money to pay the unions what they want and tons of other stuff. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/michael-moore-to-the-wealthy-your-money-isnt-yours-thats-a-national-resource-thats-ours/ I guess if you believe this is the right way to go you should be a member of this political party www.cpusa.org |
| 2011-03-04 10:05 AM in reply to: #3382458 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-04 9:38 AM Why are we all of a sudden worried about people following the rules/constituion/laws/court orders now? FWIW, I think he should be following the court order. I don't think I've ever said rules/constitution/laws should not be followed, though I do think there is a time and place for civil disobedience. But anyone who does disobey a rule/law/order should be prepared and expect to face the consequences. I've definitely stated that Senate rules allow the Senate to impose consequences for violating its rules and that the Dem Senators should bear those consequences. Such as the contempt rulings, and the fines that were recently imposed. I have no objections to that process. Where I disagreed with you previously was whether they were breaking a law and subject to arrest. The actions of the senators have certainly called a lot more attention to this issue than it may have otherwise received. The consequence for doing that has resulted in fines, recall efforts, and contempt findings. It may well see some of them voted out in the next election. I'm not arguing they should not face these consequences. Likewise, any protesters who disobey the judge's ruling on access restrictions to the state building, should face consequences ( IE, citation, forcible removal, and/or arrest ). |
| 2011-03-04 10:07 AM in reply to: #3382508 |
| Extreme Veteran 340 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-04 9:03 AM I guess if you believe this is the right way to go you should be a member of this political party www.cpusa.org
I'm starting to think you have a closet affinity for CPUSA as much as you talk about them. |
| 2011-03-04 10:11 AM in reply to: #3382466 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: RedShark - 2011-03-04 9:42 AM coredump - 2011-03-04 9:40 AM RedShark - 2011-03-04 9:29 AM coredump - 2011-03-04 8:50 AM scoobysdad - 2011-03-04 8:36 AM UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 11:12 PM Illegally shut down? Hmm, interesting. Despite having hours in which the Capitol is open, the protesters decided to ignore them and make the Capitol their own personal campground. I'd say that's illegal. Capitol officials have estimated the protesters and their gross mistreatment of the building have already caused $7 million in damages and clean-up costs. In addition, their presence is costing the State $3-4 million a week in additional police and security fees. Guess they're not too worried about the financial shape of the State. BTW, because police have openly said they cannot guarantee the safety of anyone entering the Capitol building, business and school groups have had to cancel their appointments to meet with their legislators and tour the Capitol. So, who's denying the public access and trampling on people's rights again? How nice. While the media has largely ignored the fact that Gov. Walker has illegally shut down the Capitol to protesters the last few days, the most ridiculous part is that he has also made it very difficult for legislators to get to their offices as well. This is Rep. Nick Milroy, a really nice guy from up North who I had the pleasure of talking to for a good while on Tuesday. Truly wants to work in an environment where legislators can discuss issues, not stand on party lines and ignore debate. (warning: slightly NSFW) So, you are against the right of people to assemble because it's inconvenient to tour groups?
So can I go with a group of 1000 people and sit in the oval office? NO. Your comment is ridiculous on it's face. I didn't realize the protesters were sitting in Walker's office. I thought they were in the public section of a public building. Silly me.
The point is that buildings have rules - the Capitol is not a 24 hour fast food joint. They are not telling people they can't protest. It seems that the DNC keeps people blocks away during their convention and I never saw you complain about that. Why are the school groups visiting at night? Now I'm confused. Unless you are saying that protesters shouldn't be able to assemble there during the day? ( I do agree with you that they can be restricted from the building at night ) |
| 2011-03-04 10:13 AM in reply to: #3382514 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: coredump - 2011-03-04 8:05 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-04 9:38 AM Why are we all of a sudden worried about people following the rules/constituion/laws/court orders now? FWIW, I think he should be following the court order. I don't think I've ever said rules/constitution/laws should not be followed, though I do think there is a time and place for civil disobedience. But anyone who does disobey a rule/law/order should be prepared and expect to face the consequences. I've definitely stated that Senate rules allow the Senate to impose consequences for violating its rules and that the Dem Senators should bear those consequences. Such as the contempt rulings, and the fines that were recently imposed. I have no objections to that process. Where I disagreed with you previously was whether they were breaking a law and subject to arrest. The actions of the senators have certainly called a lot more attention to this issue than it may have otherwise received. The consequence for doing that has resulted in fines, recall efforts, and contempt findings. It may well see some of them voted out in the next election. I'm not arguing they should not face these consequences. Likewise, any protesters who disobey the judge's ruling on access restrictions to the state building, should face consequences ( IE, citation, forcible removal, and/or arrest ). I think you are putting words in my mouth now. I believe what I said was rules/laws and that they could be forceably brought back by the autorities to the capitol to fulfill they dutes if they had not fled the state like the cowards that they are running like cockroaches wen the light come on or somethign to that affect. I believe I even for your benefit to prove you wrong that they weren't breaking any rules provided the section of WI constituion that spelled it out for you. As it appears now on the news today they are talking about having contempt charges filed agaisnt the 14 cowaring cockroaches which would have them not arrested but detained and brought to the legislator if the state they are hiding in will cooperate. |
| 2011-03-04 10:16 AM in reply to: #3382480 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Birkierunner - 2011-03-04 9:49 AM A friend of mine (who happens to be a WI teacher at a community college) is circulating a link to this video and urging friends to write to the Governor and tell him they want to choose kids instead of roads. Seems a little disingenuous to me....really?...choosing kids instead of roads? Is the Gov proposing to eliminate....totally eliminate...funding for education? No. Is the Gov proposing to take all education funding and put that money towards roads? No. It is not an either/or situation as the video suggests. The bridge in our town was closed for several weeks last summer to make needed renovations to gusset plate fixtures....the same exact gusset plate design by the way that failed and led to the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis several years ago that killed many people. Clearly our highway infrastructure is in need of additional money. But, if people don't want to make some cuts to education and increase funding for highways I guess its OK if a school bus plunges into a river due to a bridge collapse because increased money wasn't available to fix/renovate the bridge..... If it's that critical, why so much opposition to any tax increase ever and a constant mantra about how taxes are "stealing people's money". It seems to me like you're saying here that government actually *does* do some useful things with taxes, but given your absolute opposition to taxes, I find that hard to reconcile. |
| 2011-03-04 10:22 AM in reply to: #3382540 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: coredump - 2011-03-04 8:16 AM Birkierunner - 2011-03-04 9:49 AM A friend of mine (who happens to be a WI teacher at a community college) is circulating a link to this video and urging friends to write to the Governor and tell him they want to choose kids instead of roads. Seems a little disingenuous to me....really?...choosing kids instead of roads? Is the Gov proposing to eliminate....totally eliminate...funding for education? No. Is the Gov proposing to take all education funding and put that money towards roads? No. It is not an either/or situation as the video suggests. The bridge in our town was closed for several weeks last summer to make needed renovations to gusset plate fixtures....the same exact gusset plate design by the way that failed and led to the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis several years ago that killed many people. Clearly our highway infrastructure is in need of additional money. But, if people don't want to make some cuts to education and increase funding for highways I guess its OK if a school bus plunges into a river due to a bridge collapse because increased money wasn't available to fix/renovate the bridge..... If it's that critical, why so much opposition to any tax increase ever and a constant mantra about how taxes are "stealing people's money". It seems to me like you're saying here that government actually *does* do some useful things with taxes, but given your absolute opposition to taxes, I find that hard to reconcile. Yeah Bikerunner, with just a couple of more tax increases WI could go fromt the top 5 to #1, doesn't everyone want to be #1? In taxes in the usa that is. |
| 2011-03-04 10:40 AM in reply to: #3382540 |
Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: coredump - 2011-03-04 10:16 AM If it's that critical, why so much opposition to any tax increase ever and a constant mantra about how taxes are "stealing people's money". It seems to me like you're saying here that government actually *does* do some useful things with taxes, but given your absolute opposition to taxes, I find that hard to reconcile. C'mon Chris, where in this or any other thread have I said that I'm absolutely opposed to taxes? Am I opposed to tax increases? Yes. Is a tax taking (did I really use the word "steal" somewhere?) money out of my wallet? Yes Edited by Birkierunner 2011-03-04 10:41 AM |
| 2011-03-04 10:44 AM in reply to: #3382540 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: coredump - 2011-03-04 10:16 AM Because maybe the answer isnt always to raise taxes, especially when there are inefficiencies and fat that can be dealt with? Can you honestly say there isnt a lot of pork out there than maybe demands a look at instead of always going after other folks money to continue to promote some of the BS out there? If you run a business, you look for ways to cut costs before you look for ways to borrow. Why doesnt that make sense in government?Birkierunner - 2011-03-04 9:49 AM A friend of mine (who happens to be a WI teacher at a community college) is circulating a link to this video and urging friends to write to the Governor and tell him they want to choose kids instead of roads. Seems a little disingenuous to me....really?...choosing kids instead of roads? Is the Gov proposing to eliminate....totally eliminate...funding for education? No. Is the Gov proposing to take all education funding and put that money towards roads? No. It is not an either/or situation as the video suggests. The bridge in our town was closed for several weeks last summer to make needed renovations to gusset plate fixtures....the same exact gusset plate design by the way that failed and led to the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis several years ago that killed many people. Clearly our highway infrastructure is in need of additional money. But, if people don't want to make some cuts to education and increase funding for highways I guess its OK if a school bus plunges into a river due to a bridge collapse because increased money wasn't available to fix/renovate the bridge..... If it's that critical, why so much opposition to any tax increase ever and a constant mantra about how taxes are "stealing people's money". It seems to me like you're saying here that government actually *does* do some useful things with taxes, but given your absolute opposition to taxes, I find that hard to reconcile. |
| 2011-03-04 11:14 AM in reply to: #3382535 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-03-04 10:13 AM coredump - 2011-03-04 8:05 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-04 9:38 AM Why are we all of a sudden worried about people following the rules/constituion/laws/court orders now? FWIW, I think he should be following the court order. I don't think I've ever said rules/constitution/laws should not be followed, though I do think there is a time and place for civil disobedience. But anyone who does disobey a rule/law/order should be prepared and expect to face the consequences. I've definitely stated that Senate rules allow the Senate to impose consequences for violating its rules and that the Dem Senators should bear those consequences. Such as the contempt rulings, and the fines that were recently imposed. I have no objections to that process. Where I disagreed with you previously was whether they were breaking a law and subject to arrest. The actions of the senators have certainly called a lot more attention to this issue than it may have otherwise received. The consequence for doing that has resulted in fines, recall efforts, and contempt findings. It may well see some of them voted out in the next election. I'm not arguing they should not face these consequences. Likewise, any protesters who disobey the judge's ruling on access restrictions to the state building, should face consequences ( IE, citation, forcible removal, and/or arrest ). I think you are putting words in my mouth now. I believe what I said was rules/laws and that they could be forceably brought back by the autorities to the capitol to fulfill they dutes if they had not fled the state like the cowards that they are running like cockroaches wen the light come on or somethign to that affect. I believe I even for your benefit to prove you wrong that they weren't breaking any rules provided the section of WI constituion that spelled it out for you. As it appears now on the news today they are talking about having contempt charges filed agaisnt the 14 cowaring cockroaches which would have them not arrested but detained and brought to the legislator if the state they are hiding in will cooperate. Strong words. I apologized earlier about my Subject line. |
| 2011-03-04 11:37 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
| Extreme Veteran 340 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: I realize that it's easy to call someone a coward or a cockroach on an internet triathlon message board, but the fact is, the group of Dem. Senators that have left the state include a WW II vet, a couple Vietnam Vets, and ex an AF Air National Guard Lieutenant Colonel. We can agree or disagree on the strategy to leave the state. Personally I fall in the "All's fair in love, war and politics: camp, and if these Dems are willing to live with whatever consequences they face upon their return then so be it. The bottom line is, what they are doing is a political strategy, not an indictment on their character or courage, or morals. Calling them cowards is out of line. |
| 2011-03-04 11:48 AM in reply to: #3382091 |
Extreme Veteran 799 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: UWMadTri - 2011-03-03 10:56 PM Incidentally, that "flexibility" line I've been hearing Walker and Co. spouting makes almost no sense to me. What you're actually saying by "flexibility" is "the ability to hire the lowest bidder, which will prevent quality employees from getting jobs because they're worth more than what is being offered. Oh also, if you strike, you're fired." I think this is exactly the point of diminishing the roles of a union for public workers. Unions should not have the authority to make decisions on how tax dollars are spent. We elect representatives to make these decisions on our behalf. If the public believes the quality is low, then the public can decide to increase the resources. Not a union, which is a group solely devoted to serve on behalf of a very very small percentage of citizens. |
| 2011-03-04 12:07 PM in reply to: #3381482 |
Elite 2733 Venture Industries, | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Aarondb4 - 2011-03-03 4:00 PM
Not sure what you mean by "never lacking for work?" Not really germain to the discussion since prosecutors don't get paid per case they are paid a salary. And the fact they don't lack for work is based upon crime rates. That was the point, prosecutors get a salary and don't have to worry about finding work to pay the bills. That is an advantage to some. Yes, you are probably correct that some of the criminal defense attorneys are struggling now because of the economy. The individuals that would normally have hired them have also been hit by the economic times and those people that once would have hired private attorneys to represent them are now seeking public defenders because of their indigent status. Yup. However, when the economy was in full swing, say even three years ago, these same attorneys that are now crying poverty were reaping salaries at times two and three times what the prosecutors were making. And at that time no one was be moaning that the public defenders and prosecutors should be paid more. Whose job is it to ask for more money? I am not going to protest to pay someone else more. Also I am not trying to use a broad brush here but in my experience many of the attorneys working for the county couldn't defend, or prosecute their way out of a paper bag. I know that is not the case with all public attorneys and I'm sure not the case with you. But it is still a fact that many of the public attorneys are being paid more than they are worth, especially in the PD side of things. To address your point about the woes that the private bar has and the benefits that the prosecutors have. Typically, the prosecutor handles about three times as many cases as a similarly situated private defense attorney. When I was a prosecutor my case load, open and active at any one time was over 200 cases. This included prosecuting every single crime against a child that occurred in my county, as well as supervising a staff of 9 other attorneys. The cases I handled, homicides and sexual abuse against children, private attorneys would charge about 1/2 of my yearly salary to handle one of those cases. You claimed you looked up "a prosecutor" and he is making about $90K with benefits. That's neither here nor there, the number is meaningless unless that salary is compared with a private attorney of similar education, similar years of experience and similar success. Ok, my wife's boss is the same age, has been practicing the same amount of time, and is just as successful as the guy I looked up (I know them both personally). And I can tell you that the prosecutor is making more money than the private attorney. I also know a guy who was formerly a prosectuor and left the office when a new district attorney was elected. He had a difference of view so decided to leave, he is now doing criminal defense work and he can't even afford a high school kid to do the runs to the court house for him. When I left I was making about $82K a year in salary when you add benefits it bumped it up to about $94K. That's a great salary compared to the average salary in the U.S. However, when compared to attorneys similarly situated to me it was about -$40,000/yr. And I KNOW that I could have made double what I was making, because I had turned down such offers in the past. I'm not sure why you made the decision to be a prosecutor rather than a private attorney, I'm sure you had many reasons. I think for a lot of government employees the reason to work for the gov't is one, a paycheck that you know will always be there, and two, job security. I used to work for the court clerks office and I can tell you it was nearly impossible to get fired from that place. Pay was based on how long you had been there so all you had to do was sit in a seat and pick your nose for 30 years and you were all set for a comfy retirement. You can't get that in the private sector. And again, yes since the economy has tanked many of the bottom feeder attorneys are now struggling to find work, but my issue is no one complained when the economy was fine and they were making $$ hand over fist and the public pay wasn't adjusted accordingly. Now people are screaming that the public secotr should share in the economic down turn, I find that funny, because no one was taking up the banner and when times were good saying that the public secotr should share in the fat times. We sure didn't, comparatively. The government and the citizens made a deal, the deal was less pay up front for more benefits on the back end. And now, they want to change that deal. It was fine for decades, and fine even 5 years ago, and no one thought anything of it, because times were good, and public employees were out of sight out of mind. I really think that states have nowhere else to go. Idaho has cut education every year for the last three years and is working on cutting it again. We are cutting most of our services to mentally disabled adults. I think when the state is as broke as many are something has to be done and asking a public employee to contribute is not a ridiculous request. The main perk of job security is still there if everyone just chips in a bit. If I was still in gov't and had the choice I would prefer layoffs myself because I know that I would not be the one getting laid off because I didn't sit around and pick my nose. But almost everyone else in my office was there for the job security. So it amazes me that public employees are fighting so hard to layoff their co-workers. I guess my overall point is that aside from pay, the major benefit to working as a lawyer for the gov't is that you have job security and you know you are going to get paid. That is more important to some than it is to others. People who are more worried about the amount they are getting paid can work for the private sector. People who want to be comfortable and have security can work for the gov't. That is the reason I left the gov't. I decided to accept the risk that I might lose my job for the potential benefit of making more money in the long run. I am making less money now, have no benefits whatsoever, and I get to hear everyday from my boss how bad it is and how we aren't making any money. So for now the move has not paid off. But I am hopeful that someday it will.
And in response to the headaches comment. I didn't say public attorneys don't have headaches. Just not the same headaches, ie. payroll, rent, business taxes, advertising, etc. I don't necessarily know if your experience in public employ transfers to public attorneys. My experience, as an actual public attorney, is that most people became public attorneys (1) for the litigation training, (2) for a sense of dedication to prosecuting crimes and then (3) job security. However, in my experience the "job security" portion of the job is not sufficient to overcome pay disparity. What I mean by that is, in my experience, those people that make a career out of being a public lawyer (I'm only talking public defenders and prosecutors because that's where my experience lies) don't do it for the pay or the job security but rather the "job satisfaction" portion of the job, that is they like what they. In fact, the vast majority of those that leave, leave specifically because the amount of money they can make in private sector outwieghs the potential and actual benefits of job security. And I understand your point about job security. However, my point is that the government for decades in some areas, purposfully paid government attorneys less in comparison to private attorneys. They did this as a cost savings tactic. They paid less during the "good" economic times. And this was done in specific exchange for perks on the back end, "perks" that included retirement and health care benefits. This was a specific decision by those in government. Save now, potentially spend later. So I find it odd that, now, somehow public employees have done something wrong, or should be punished because of the down turn in the economy. I find the argument that public employees should "share in the economic downturn" odd, because for decades they didn't share in the economic prosperity, and no one in the media or public opion said a word. So for years, decades actually, many public employees made sacrifices of lower pay to benefit the public and now they are being asked to make even more sacrifices by sacrificing or having eliminated benefits that where given in exchange for lower pay. And in some cases the government is seeking to eliminate, not future benefits, but benefits that have already been earned. |
| 2011-03-04 12:09 PM in reply to: #3382745 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Brock Samson - 2011-03-04 12:07 PM ... So for years, decades actually, many public employees made sacrifices of lower pay to benefit the public and now they are being asked to make even more sacrifices by sacrificing or having eliminated benefits that where given in exchange for lower pay. And in some cases the government is seeking to eliminate, not future benefits, but benefits that have already been earned. And this is the argument that comes full circle. |
| 2011-03-04 12:35 PM in reply to: #3382519 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: WaitingGuilty - 2011-03-04 8:07 AM crusevegas - 2011-03-04 9:03 AM I guess if you believe this is the right way to go you should be a member of this political party www.cpusa.org
I'm starting to think you have a closet affinity for CPUSA as much as you talk about them. I get their news letter via e-mail and it scares me that over the last 35 years or longer our federal govt. has been doing what they are advocating. In the last 5 years they have not been moving in that direction slowly but sprinting towards their goals and objectives. This stance Gov. Walker has taken is the first time I've seen some of the Communist agenda being beaten back & reversed and am happy to see it. |
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