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2013-07-17 4:16 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Supposed to be 100 degrees tomorrow.  How's the weather in your neck of the woods? 


2013-07-17 4:17 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Yes, finally a new page.  I feel like I've accomplished something today Laughing.
2013-07-17 4:21 PM
in reply to: copa2251

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Oh, forgot to say how I motivate myself to do the workouts I dread!

Signing up for a race is my number one scare tactic and promising myself some post exercise yummy food is another. As Jayne says, Just Do It is a good mantra for getting out there. Being disciplined to stick to the plan you made last night and ignoring your early morning thoughts is vital

2013-07-17 4:38 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Originally posted by jfought

Supposed to be 100 degrees tomorrow.  How's the weather in your neck of the woods? 


Hot but I am so thankful we had a couple of days rain free I don't care what the temperature was.
2013-07-17 6:25 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Originally posted by jfought

Yo Peeps!  Who's gearing up to race this weekend, and what's the plan?

peeps

Let's talk about the tough workouts.  You know the ones........you dread them, avoid them, think about them anxiously when you're trying to sleep, and know they must get done.  Tell us about a recent TOUGH workout and how you motivated yourself.

I have an Oly on Sunday.  This is an interesting race that I have done twice before.  The swim exit is about 1.5km away from the bikes so you end up with your run stuff in T1.   The bike is shortened by 1.5km and starts out with a fairly tough climb - a couple of short (i.e. a couple hundred meters) 10 and 12% grade stuff, climbing to 280 meters in the first 12km of the course.  From there it is a very gradual downhill.   

The weather forecast is looking decent, but it may be hot by the time I get to the run.   This is not my A race and I am not tapering.  I did a long run yesterday (19 km) and will do a 3 hour ride on Friday.

 

Tough for me means long bike, but I am finding that if there is a structure behind the long (i.e., 30' Z2 warmup, 2 X 15' in Z4, etc.) it helps a lot.  

2013-07-17 6:27 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Originally posted by jfought Supposed to be 100 degrees tomorrow.  How's the weather in your neck of the woods? 

65 degrees and raining...it rained all night and it is supposed to rain all the way through until midnight.  



2013-07-17 8:45 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Originally posted by jfought Supposed to be 100 degrees tomorrow.  How's the weather in your neck of the woods? 

HOT!  The heat index hit 105F today.  Aren't you glad you and Bruce weren't racing today?

2013-07-17 10:25 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Originally posted by jfought

Anybody heard anything out of Julia lately?

 

She's chasing bears in Alaska. I hope to see her next  week when she ventures back down to the lower 48!

Big workouts... Yeah, I just schedule 'em and do 'em. Last year I did my longer runs on either Thursday or Friday (those were my two "more" open days). I'd watch the weather but hope everything would align for the Thursday workout because I just like to get 'em done. Lately my life mantra is, "The best run is the one that's done." I think all DONE long runs were great. But I dread 'em. I do try to be mindful of diet, sleep, and hydration leading up to big workouts. I like to give myself every possible advantage I can and strive for success.

2013-07-18 5:39 AM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Originally posted by jfought

Yo Peeps!  Who's gearing up to race this weekend, and what's the plan?

peeps

Let's talk about the tough workouts.  You know the ones........you dread them, avoid them, think about them anxiously when you're trying to sleep, and know they must get done.  Tell us about a recent TOUGH workout and how you motivated yourself.

No racing for me, although there are two HIM's within driving distance in WI this weekend so you may wonder why not.

Long pace runs (10m@7:XX), pace runs off the bike 3(10'at 7:XX, 2' rec), LT Tests/Track Tests and anything that is timed in swimming cause me worry.  I've said it before, but I do a lot of visualization beforehand to get through them.  The more I can see the positive outcome of a work out, the better chance it will happen.  If I don't have a plan, I can easily cave mid way through it.

I used this strategy yesterday to get through my BIG DAY in some brutally hot weather and it worked for that too.  PLAN AHEAD!

2013-07-18 7:12 AM
in reply to: SSMinnow

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Going to be hot here as well temps reaching 100 and t-storms wich means really humid
2013-07-18 7:28 AM
in reply to: mbehr1983

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

With those hot temps and long workouts, remember that you do need "recovery time" too:

 





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2013-07-18 2:00 PM
in reply to: dcon

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Loving all the good advice for those hard workouts.  I especially like the reminder to prepare well physically by paying attention to rest, diet, and hydration, and preparing mentally using visualization.  And, according to Dan, don't forget the importance of recovery :-)

Bell's Two Hearted Ale is one of my favorites, and the brewery is only an hour from my house!!

2013-07-18 2:12 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Heat index in the 100's here. Humidity really slows me down. I take longer to recover too.

DAN, good luck this weekend!!
2013-07-20 11:18 AM
in reply to: Terps421

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
I had my second open water swim last night. I think it went better than the first in that nothing really freaked me out. I'm still having trouble keeping my breathing under control (which is the same thing that happens when I'm in the pool.) It kind of reminds me of when I first started running. I would take off faster than I should and end up walking shortly after. I feel like I'm trying to go slow, but I'm still stopping a lot to catch my breath. It could be anxiety, too, as I'm still not all that comfortable in the water. I'm not really sure. I know this is a tough thing to give advice on, but I'd love any suggestions you might have. My husband went with me and said that my strokes look fine, so I feel if I could get this breathing under control, I might actually feel good about my upcoming sprint.
2013-07-20 4:55 PM
in reply to: JillB

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
I had a half mary today. I had a goal time of under 2 hours but I came in 94 seconds short (2:01:33). It's not a BAD time but it is hard knowing I was so close to my goal.
2013-07-20 5:05 PM
in reply to: JillB

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Originally posted by JillB I had my second open water swim last night. I think it went better than the first in that nothing really freaked me out. I'm still having trouble keeping my breathing under control (which is the same thing that happens when I'm in the pool.) It kind of reminds me of when I first started running. I would take off faster than I should and end up walking shortly after. I feel like I'm trying to go slow, but I'm still stopping a lot to catch my breath. It could be anxiety, too, as I'm still not all that comfortable in the water. I'm not really sure. I know this is a tough thing to give advice on, but I'd love any suggestions you might have. My husband went with me and said that my strokes look fine, so I feel if I could get this breathing under control, I might actually feel good about my upcoming sprint.

Hey Jill

Did Chet say anything about your balance in the H20?  how much do you use your legs?  I found that I used to have this useless little panic going because I wasn't balanced in the H20 and couldn't catch a decent breath.  It led to a lot of oxygen debt.  If you use a pull buoy in the pool does it alleviate the issue? you're not waiting to exhale until you turn your head are you?



2013-07-20 5:07 PM
in reply to: tricrazy

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Originally posted by tricrazy I had a half mary today. I had a goal time of under 2 hours but I came in 94 seconds short (2:01:33). It's not a BAD time but it is hard knowing I was so close to my goal.

First, congratulations on finishing near your goal time!  Were you tracking pace and total time?  In general, I'm not a clock watcher when racing, but I think in this instance it might have been helpful.  When I did my last marathon, I wanted to PR and as I was fading in the last couple of miles, it was the GPS that made me move!  

2013-07-21 8:41 AM
in reply to: tricrazy

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Originally posted by tricrazy I had a half mary today. I had a goal time of under 2 hours but I came in 94 seconds short (2:01:33). It's not a BAD time but it is hard knowing I was so close to my goal.

 

Under 2 hours is a great goal, and now you know you can do it.....next time.  Chalk this one up as a GREAT race and try to figure out where you left those 94 seconds.

2013-07-21 8:46 AM
in reply to: JillB

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Originally posted by JillB I had my second open water swim last night. I think it went better than the first in that nothing really freaked me out. I'm still having trouble keeping my breathing under control (which is the same thing that happens when I'm in the pool.) It kind of reminds me of when I first started running. I would take off faster than I should and end up walking shortly after. I feel like I'm trying to go slow, but I'm still stopping a lot to catch my breath. It could be anxiety, too, as I'm still not all that comfortable in the water. I'm not really sure. I know this is a tough thing to give advice on, but I'd love any suggestions you might have. My husband went with me and said that my strokes look fine, so I feel if I could get this breathing under control, I might actually feel good about my upcoming sprint.

Since it happens in the pool too, I'm thinking it could be two things: 1) Like you said, you might be starting out too fast and just need to slow down and give yourself some time to get good and warmed up.  How long was your ows?  Did it get better as you got more warmed up?  2) Like Suzy said, kicking uses up A LOT of energy.  I barely kick when I swim (unless I'm sprinting).  I use the legs just enough to stay in a good balanced position in the water.

Don't know if that helps much, but keep giving us more information as you go along and we will do what we can to help.

2013-07-21 5:54 PM
in reply to: jfought

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Jayne and Suzy, thank you so much for you replies! I did about 500 yards at the lake. I haven't used a pool buoy, but I did swim in a wetsuit both times (just to get used to it.) I do kick a lot when I swim because I feel my legs are a lot stronger than my arms are, but I didn't realize that it took so much more energy to do that. I don't know if it's the balance you guys are talking about, but Chet did talk to me about keeping my arm stretched out when I do each stroke and "gliding" more, so I'm doing less strokes. I don't know if I'm describing that right, but I understood it when he said it. I kept that in mind when I did my last out and back to the buoy and at first it really helped me. And then I looked up to make sure I was still headed in the right direction and got my breathing out of whack again and couldn't get it back. I do breathe out through my nose (and probably mouth, too) when my face is in the water and inhale big when I turn my head. Chet seems to think I'm holding my breath somehow, but I really don't think I am. For what it's worth, he says that when I'm swimming without stopping, I'm actually going fairly fast... But that's probably because I'm kicking so much... which is probably why I can't hold it. Okay, I'm going to head to the pool tomorrow and try to keep all this in mind. I'll let you know how it goes.

Rachel, congratulations on getting so close to your sub-2! I'm sure you'll get it next time!
2013-07-21 8:02 PM
in reply to: JillB

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Originally posted by JillB Jayne and Suzy, thank you so much for you replies! I did about 500 yards at the lake. I haven't used a pool buoy, but I did swim in a wetsuit both times (just to get used to it.) I do kick a lot when I swim because I feel my legs are a lot stronger than my arms are, but I didn't realize that it took so much more energy to do that. I don't know if it's the balance you guys are talking about, but Chet did talk to me about keeping my arm stretched out when I do each stroke and "gliding" more, so I'm doing less strokes. I don't know if I'm describing that right, but I understood it when he said it. I kept that in mind when I did my last out and back to the buoy and at first it really helped me. And then I looked up to make sure I was still headed in the right direction and got my breathing out of whack again and couldn't get it back. I do breathe out through my nose (and probably mouth, too) when my face is in the water and inhale big when I turn my head. Chet seems to think I'm holding my breath somehow, but I really don't think I am. For what it's worth, he says that when I'm swimming without stopping, I'm actually going fairly fast... But that's probably because I'm kicking so much... which is probably why I can't hold it. Okay, I'm going to head to the pool tomorrow and try to keep all this in mind. I'll let you know how it goes. Rachel, congratulations on getting so close to your sub-2! I'm sure you'll get it next time!

Jill -- over-kicking is probably the most common "problem" I see in inexperienced swimmer. It takes a LOT of oxygen to power our legs -- big muscles there. So if you were consciously kicking heavily to gain speed, that would likely explain the shortness of breath. Big kicks are reserved for sprinters, like those doing 50 yards in 28 seconds or less (saw a 10-year-old girl pull off a :26 50-yard freestyle yesterday and a :58 100-yard free, it was gorgeous but I digress). You are really doing more of a distance swim, which, ideally, would be supported by a 2-beat or a 4-beat kick which, as Jayne mentioned, is enough to keep your feet up and your balance and rotation in check but not enough to exert (much) energy. I'd try slowing down your kick. Report back and let us know how it goes!

Rachel -- way to get after that 2-hour goal. It's hard to be so close but often there are other factors to consider (weather, course, etc.), so I'll give you a big ole' congratulations!!!



2013-07-22 5:56 AM
in reply to: JillB

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN

Originally posted by JillB Jayne and Suzy, thank you so much for you replies! I did about 500 yards at the lake. I haven't used a pool buoy, but I did swim in a wetsuit both times (just to get used to it.) I do kick a lot when I swim because I feel my legs are a lot stronger than my arms are, but I didn't realize that it took so much more energy to do that. I don't know if it's the balance you guys are talking about, but Chet did talk to me about keeping my arm stretched out when I do each stroke and "gliding" more, so I'm doing less strokes. I don't know if I'm describing that right, but I understood it when he said it. I kept that in mind when I did my last out and back to the buoy and at first it really helped me. And then I looked up to make sure I was still headed in the right direction and got my breathing out of whack again and couldn't get it back. I do breathe out through my nose (and probably mouth, too) when my face is in the water and inhale big when I turn my head. Chet seems to think I'm holding my breath somehow, but I really don't think I am. For what it's worth, he says that when I'm swimming without stopping, I'm actually going fairly fast... But that's probably because I'm kicking so much... which is probably why I can't hold it. Okay, I'm going to head to the pool tomorrow and try to keep all this in mind. I'll let you know how it goes. Rachel, congratulations on getting so close to your sub-2! I'm sure you'll get it next time!

One other thing I've learned over time is NOT to exhale really quickly so you feel the need to get the next breath or you will die.  I've practiced not exhaling as soon as I push off the wall, but wait a little bit and then do it.  I've fully exhaled by the time I take the next breath, but am not in oxygen debt.  Siting does get me out of whack some time---just takes practice.  If you can do some of these things in more shallow water it can be helpful.

Kyla's probably the best one to comment on this, but in OW, I tend to shorten my stroke a little.  I'm a glider in the pool and that isn't always good.  I have a slight stall in my stroke because of it and it makes me SLOW.  Trying to change a habit that I was told to create a long time ago is hard!!!!  In the OW, a glide can be a negative if there is chop.

This is a photo from the Racine HIM yesterday.  Swim is in Lake Michigan.  The lead boat capsized, many people were seasick during the swim and another 3-4 dozen were pulled out.  I'm told it was similar to Lake George (the one Jeff did).  About three hours North for the Door County HIM, the water was pancake flat and it was the same lake!

?

2013-07-22 10:02 AM
in reply to: JillB

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Originally posted by JillB

Jayne and Suzy, thank you so much for you replies! I did about 500 yards at the lake. I haven't used a pool buoy, but I did swim in a wetsuit both times (just to get used to it.) I do kick a lot when I swim because I feel my legs are a lot stronger than my arms are, but I didn't realize that it took so much more energy to do that. I don't know if it's the balance you guys are talking about, but Chet did talk to me about keeping my arm stretched out when I do each stroke and "gliding" more, so I'm doing less strokes. I don't know if I'm describing that right, but I understood it when he said it. I kept that in mind when I did my last out and back to the buoy and at first it really helped me. And then I looked up to make sure I was still headed in the right direction and got my breathing out of whack again and couldn't get it back. I do breathe out through my nose (and probably mouth, too) when my face is in the water and inhale big when I turn my head. Chet seems to think I'm holding my breath somehow, but I really don't think I am. For what it's worth, he says that when I'm swimming without stopping, I'm actually going fairly fast... But that's probably because I'm kicking so much... which is probably why I can't hold it. Okay, I'm going to head to the pool tomorrow and try to keep all this in mind. I'll let you know how it goes.

Rachel, congratulations on getting so close to your sub-2! I'm sure you'll get it next time!


Just wanted to add one thing.... Not even swimming related.
I find getting comfortable in the lake prior to actually swimming helps. Get wet, get water in the wetsuit. get your face in the water., float for a bit. Get comfy first.
2013-07-22 5:40 PM
in reply to: TrevorC

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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
Originally posted by TrevorC

Originally posted by JillB

Jayne and Suzy, thank you so much for you replies! I did about 500 yards at the lake. I haven't used a pool buoy, but I did swim in a wetsuit both times (just to get used to it.) I do kick a lot when I swim because I feel my legs are a lot stronger than my arms are, but I didn't realize that it took so much more energy to do that. I don't know if it's the balance you guys are talking about, but Chet did talk to me about keeping my arm stretched out when I do each stroke and "gliding" more, so I'm doing less strokes. I don't know if I'm describing that right, but I understood it when he said it. I kept that in mind when I did my last out and back to the buoy and at first it really helped me. And then I looked up to make sure I was still headed in the right direction and got my breathing out of whack again and couldn't get it back. I do breathe out through my nose (and probably mouth, too) when my face is in the water and inhale big when I turn my head. Chet seems to think I'm holding my breath somehow, but I really don't think I am. For what it's worth, he says that when I'm swimming without stopping, I'm actually going fairly fast... But that's probably because I'm kicking so much... which is probably why I can't hold it. Okay, I'm going to head to the pool tomorrow and try to keep all this in mind. I'll let you know how it goes.

Rachel, congratulations on getting so close to your sub-2! I'm sure you'll get it next time!


Just wanted to add one thing.... Not even swimming related.
I find getting comfortable in the lake prior to actually swimming helps. Get wet, get water in the wetsuit. get your face in the water., float for a bit. Get comfy first.


I agree with you Trevor, less anxiety if you do this prior to the start.
2013-07-22 8:05 PM
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Subject: RE: SWBKRUN MENTOR GROUP - OPEN
I did a funky race on the weekend. 1k swim-60k bike - 10k run. Windy morning, so the chop was crazy. Swallowed some water and dry heaved a few times. good times.

I PB'ed the run. beat my previous standalone 10k time by 20 sec or so. I'm starting to like running. I'd love to see a 49:XX in front one day.



Oh and Suzy.....Now is he guilty?


Edited by TrevorC 2013-07-22 8:07 PM
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