Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED (Page 28)

I would love to have a cruising pace like yours Jamie.  Personally, I've found that speed work has been helping me, BUT I'm still a beginner and they are helping me more with the way it "feels" to run fast (form, relaxing, etc) which makes me more comfortable when I crank the speed down and then my HR is slower.  Does that make sense?  Anyway, I think I've got far more cardiovascular benefit over the past couple of months from the frequence.

Here's another newbie question, I can't believe I don't know and can't seem to find...when people talk about race pace I understand of course they are referencing the pace one would race at. When I think of oly and sprint (my only experience) that was faster than my normal training. What about HIM and IM?  When I think of especially the run...if I'm doing long runs at a (don't laugh) pace of say a 10:30 mile and my HR is under 130, would my IM marathon pace be faster or slower? I can see where I'd want it to be slower maybe because of the day/distance, but then I can also see where it's a race and I want to leave it all on the field and I'd want it faster.  Thoughts?

With that said, time to go for a run. 

QOTD complements of syscrash:

Here's another newbie question, I can't believe I don't know and can't seem to find...when people talk about race pace I understand of course they are referencing the pace one would race at. When I think of oly and sprint (my only experience) that was faster than my normal training. What about HIM and IM? When I think of especially the run...if I'm doing long runs at a (don't laugh) pace of say a 10:30 mile and my HR is under 130, would my IM marathon pace be faster or slower? I can see where I'd want it to be slower maybe because of the day/distance, but then I can also see where it's a race and I want to leave it all on the field and I'd want it faster. Thoughts?

In other words, how are you going to judge YOUR HIM and/or IM pace?

AQOTD:

My HIM. I think I did my first HIM's with HR but only on the bike. I just ran on feel and that usually ended up ok. I was extremely cautious with the pace. Now, I would pace the bike at my HIM watts which I have practiced a ton. I still run HIM based on feel but with an eye on my current pace on my Garmin. I don't exceed about 6:10 for the first 6-7 miles. If after 6-7 miles I still feel good, I will pick up the pace.....this has never happened.

My IM. I've practiced watts on the bike followed by very long bricks at avg. goal run pace of 8min/mile. Come race day, I pretty much know I can do it as long as I nail nutrition/hydration. I start out the first 3 miles at 8:30 pace and then settle into 7:50-8 min pace until mile 13. I then reassess if I can pick it by maybe 10 secs or stay the same @ 8's. This has worked very well for me.

I don't use HR. I find it to be a really unreliable gauge of my effort especially on the run. Back when I started I used HR on the bike to make sure my effort on the bike remained REALLY easy. That worked well enough. Even at the beginning I usually just took the run pretty easy (based on RPE at the time) and only increased speed at the 1/2 way point if I could handle it.

Two truths:
1. There is no such thing as a good bike followed by a bad run.
2. If you can avoid walking you will have a great IM finish time regardless of bike speed. For me, my first IM was a death march (the ironman shuffle run). Finish time 13 hrs. Second IM, I controlled the bike and was able to run/jog the entire marathon. Finish time 11.5hrs.

Time to do FTP efforts on the trainer. 5 mile run @ lunch too.
Have a good Friday!
Jamie

While Im thinking about it, does anyone have thoughts on the new Boston Marathon entry changes?  I dont know if anyone really cares about Boston, but Im a big Boston guy and since Ive started training have always had the voice in the back of my head saying "you should try to qualify".  At this point, and probably for the next couple year, if I were to qualify, Id be right on the edge.  With the new rules, Im not sure if Id be able to get in, even if I did qualify because from what I can tell, they are giving registration priority to the faster people first.  Anyways, that was kind of a disappointment (not that big though, since Im not anywhere close to qualifying, by the time Im ready, they could change the rules again).

AOTD:  Im probably not a good voice for this question, since my HIMs last year were all subpar runs, and I think thats a result of having bad "race pace" plans.  I didnt go with enough data (realistic goals) and too much wishful thinking.  Somehow this had to mess up my bike (going between meathead fast and overly conservative slow) and then having nothing left in my legs.

RE: Boston Marathon...

My favorite blogger has done two really comprehensive posts on Boston qualifying times. The first one described how the times (before the recent announcement) favor the older age groups, and women specifically. The second one was written in response to the new qualifying rules. You'll probably love the analysis if you love the Boston Marathon:

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/02/thoughts-on-new-boston-marathon.html

Thanks for the read/analysis on Boston.

Based on the T-10 to get in, that puts me at 2:55.  I can knock 40 minutes off my marathon time, no problem.  Haha.  Or I can wait 20+ years and hope I can run at the same pace. 

At least its something to shoot for...

I've run Boston. To tell you the truth it ain't that great. I just find the April race date to be a PITA if you live in a colder climate (like me). Running all of those miles in snow/ice/crap just wasn't that much fun. To top it all off, the year that I did it a nor'easter blew in and made race day pretty much miserable. I enjoyed marine corp much more. If I ever do a big marathon again I think I would like to do NYC.
I agree with the new 'faster' times for Boston. It filled so fast last year they had to do something.

Jamie

Ive read a lot about the hype of Boston and it not being worth it.  With that in mind, Patriot Day is one of my favorite days of the year.  Red Sox play at 11am so I get to watch the game all day at work.  I hear you on the lousy weather training, but Im thinking with this move down to VA, I should be able to get outside for most of the winter.  I watched Marine Corp this year and Ill give that a shot when it works with the schedule, and New York is on the fiances bucket list.

Its funny to think back to the college baseball days when we had to run a couple 300yd sprints for our "endurance" training and complained about it.  Never would have thought about doing a marathon then.

I've got a pretty full weekend and may be off the grid for a bit Sat/Sun. Have a good weekend. Pretty sure this was posted before but it's always worth a second look:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/


Jamie

Looking for input from my forum peeps.  I'm doing a sprint tri in a couple weeks in California.  Even though the event is in the desert, the average temps at race time have been in the mid to upper 40's.  It's only a sprint distance, but I am curious how to dress for each sport (and keeping transitions down in time)?  Water temp is usually in the mid 60's so I'll definitely be in a full sleeve wetsuit with tri top & shorts underneath.  Coming into T1 and prepping for the bike seems like the biggest challenge.  Not sure I would want to ride 14 miles in soaking wet shorts and top when it is 45-50 degrees.  By the time the run comes around, I can handle 50 degrees in shorts and tri top...but of would prefer they are dry.  Just trying to figure out the best way to plan clothing-wise.

Ive never had a problem with wet tri shorts.  They arent really a material that absorbs water.  Even when they come out of the washing machine, they arent really wet.  Especially if youre in the sun, you dry off pretty quick.  The coldest race that I did, I put on a light long sleeve shirt, but that was a windy, shaded course and I had the sleeves pulled up after a couple miles.

Interesting run today with the fiance, 50mph wind gusts.  There were a couple times when we were literally running in place.  Hopefully the wind dies down and we can ride outside tomorrow. 

i would suffer in the cold clothes. Transitions in a sprint really matter b/c the race is so short. I guess if you absolutely needed something I would thrown on a wind breaker vest but that's it.

Jamie

With my limited experience I'd agree with just being a bit cold for a few minutes as well. My tri shorts always dry off quickly

5 mile run for me yesterday. FTP test on the bike later this morning after the coffee and oatmeal settle in! After the warm(ish) weather all week we are now having another hailstorm. Can somebody please remind me why I live in the midwest? Oh yeah....the job.

Have a good Sunday everybody.

Jamie

AOTD: I have yet to do an HIM or IM but I see myself running 3-4 times a week since I am most comfortable with the run and where I have the most confidence. Not a big fan of speed work but will try to stay at race pace.


sbsmann:  I have cut the feet out of an old pair of tube socks to keep my arms warm for the first few miles of a race - then you can just pull them off and throw them away. 

For the tri - remember to pre roll them so all you have to do is put around your wrist and then unroll up your arm - much eaiser on wet arms.

Got a good run in yesterday since it was so nice - ran at 7am and it was 40 degrees.  Me and my daughter set the bike up in the living room while Jen was out for her run (she ran 6 miles!!! her second longest run) and cleaned all the saw dust off the bike.  It was a mess!  Sitting here this morning it is sleeting pretty good and the back patio is covered in ice.  Guess I will be biking inside today. 

sbsmann- I did an Oly in September with an air temp of 51 and it was cold! I sucked it up and just did the thing in my wet trisuit. I was going to put on a jacket, blah blah blah.. but once I was going, I didn't want to waste precious seconds or minutes fiddling with the crap.
One thing I will warn you of, your feet may be frozen numb when you go to unclip off of the bike. I had never experienced that feeling before! Took a few steps to get the sensation back! Have fun!!

Thanks everyone for the input.  Some good suggestions.  wallico...I like the makeshift arm warmer concept....that's good stuff.  I was kind of leaning towards just "toughing" it out as many of you suggested.  I think if I have my bike jacket in transition I can make the decision at T1-time if I want to throw it on.  Have to play it by ear.

And thanks to nuttysami123's comments, I think I will now bring along my toe covers just in case.

X2 on toe covers. Good suggestion. I forgot about those.

Jamie

QOTD:

What is the hardest workout that you've ever done. Doesn't have to be tri related.

For me it's my annual 5hr ride + 15 mile run broken up as 5 bricks. So 1 hour on the trainer followed by a 3 mile run repeated 5X.

Off to masters swim.

Jamie

OUCH! That sounds like no fun at all.

AOTD: Nothing comes to mind immediately which could mean I'm not pushing myself hard enough in my training.

AQOTD: I don't know if I can point to one specific workout, but as general rule, I find the super-long runs the nastiest & most brutal on the body.  Something about doing that dreaded 20 (or 20+) mile run that always kicks my azz and renders me completely useless that entire day.

Got a good swim in this morning. Mixing in some stroke to keep things interesting. I really want to learn butterfly this year. I also really like my rotator cuffs so it's a tough thing to try to do!

I'm really looking forward to warmer weather so I can swim outside. The pool is really testing my mental strength this year.

It rained all day here. Better than snow but still cancelled the lunch run. It's too early in the season to get both cold and wet while running!

I lost a few points on my FTP test yesterday. No big deal really. I figured it would suck b/c I haven't gotten a lot of sleep lately.


Jamie

AOTD: This is a tough one. I went to crossfit the other day and that was extremely difficult. One I'll always remember, however, was my first real ride. Last summer I'd owned a bike a whole week and I went to Boulder with some friends to ride. Originally they were going to ride the 70.3 course which is two laps and I was going to drop after the first lap. Well, I did the 2nd lap too. My longest ride prior to that was maybe 10 miles. During the workout I felt great, after...not so much

QOTD - I would think my toughest would be a mini tour de France last year. There was about 10 of us and we did a 100k ride. It was broken up in a hill decent, sprints, team persuits and a hill climb. Winner of each leg had to wear the appropriate ladies underwear. Over the bike shorts. Green jersey, polkadot of the hill climb. It was so much fun but I was dead at the end of the day. Day off today. Goon to return my rollers and look at buying a wetsuit. I might do one workout tonight to avoid working out twice later in the week