Ernesto's group - CLOSED (Page 28)

older2533 - 2011-06-08 11:50 AM

Ernesto (and everyone else)

Ok, pace strategy question time for my oly.  

I swim in the pool 100 yards in roughly 2 minutes.   Assuming the same for the .93 mile swim, that's 33 minutes for the swim.  I will have a full sleeve wetsuit on.  (It was 102 here yesterday, but the lake will still be wetsuit legal for certain.)

The bike is 24.37 miles.   At 18 mph, that's  81 minutes.  

If I then run the 10k at my half marathon pace (7:30), that's 46:30, but let's say 47 minutes. 

Add 4 minutes for transitions, that's 33+81+47+4 = 165 minutes, or 2:45.

I was hoping to do better than that.   

But here's my question.  At my sprint last year (my only tri), I basically didn't pace myself except on the swim.  On the bike and the run, I just went.   But at an oly distance, I have to worry about bonking.   For a run, I know what to do about this (at least at the half marathon pace): pick the right pace and stick with it mile after mile.   Not sure what the right pace is on the bike however.  I don't want to bonk, but I also don't want to leave too much gas in the tank. 

Chris

older2533 - 2011-06-08 10:50 AM

Ernesto (and everyone else)

Ok, pace strategy question time for my oly.  

I swim in the pool 100 yards in roughly 2 minutes.   Assuming the same for the .93 mile swim, that's 33 minutes for the swim.  I will have a full sleeve wetsuit on.  (It was 102 here yesterday, but the lake will still be wetsuit legal for certain.)

The bike is 24.37 miles.   At 18 mph, that's  81 minutes.  

If I then run the 10k at my half marathon pace (7:30), that's 46:30, but let's say 47 minutes. 

Add 4 minutes for transitions, that's 33+81+47+4 = 165 minutes, or 2:45.

I was hoping to do better than that.   

But here's my question.  At my sprint last year (my only tri), I basically didn't pace myself except on the swim.  On the bike and the run, I just went.   But at an oly distance, I have to worry about bonking.   For a run, I know what to do about this (at least at the half marathon pace): pick the right pace and stick with it mile after mile.   Not sure what the right pace is on the bike however.  I don't want to bonk, but I also don't want to leave too much gas in the tank. 

Chris

 

Chris,

With my very limited experience (first Oly ever 6 weeks ago) I say you should play it by ear and see how you feel after your swim as well as the weather conditions for that day.  If you are feeling good then push your self with with the bike segment and you know you can run strong! 

For my race I was shooting for the same 2:45+- time and ended up doing 2:52.  I came out with an ok swim time of 31 min (which is my weakest area).  However once I hit the bike I felt really tired, plus it was really hot and humid outside (96F), and I was not able to go over 17mph avg. From then it was downhill for me as I was not looking forward to the run with that heat.

For my Oly this Sunday, I'm planning on pacing a little more on the swim with the hopes of having more energy/speed for the bike and run segments.

Good luck and enjoy your race!

 

 

 

 

evillarroel - 2011-06-08 1:45 PM 

Chris,

Actually, you paced the one thing that you don’t have to. The swim will always be less effort than perceived (don’t ask me why, I don’t know). The HR for swimming is surprisingly low unless you’re going ALL OUT for fifty yards or so.

Swim pacing: Position yourself as close to the buoys as you can, start normal and pick up the pace after 100 yards, feel the water moving below you. Stroke should be long (reach out) and a strong pull, don’t swim desperately, get into a rhythm and breathe every time your left hand enters the water. THIS IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT.

evillarroel - 2011-06-08 1:45 PM 

Practice transitions in your backyard and give your kids a laugh! This is often neglected and it is a time waster. Set it up the same way it is going to be on race day. Do it MANY TIMES until it becomes second nature.

evillarroel - 2011-06-08 1:45 PM 

Bike pacing: Start at a high cadence and stay like that for a good three miles. Stay in the small ring during this time. Then feel free to shift as you please. Go hard, but not too much. You don’t want to be feeling out of breath.

evillarroel - 2011-06-08 1:45 PM 

RUN PACING: The most important thing of all is to leave half of your energy for the last third of the run when you get off the bike. Your stomach should be a quarter full when you start running but if you feel thirsty, drink.

NUTRITION: You didn’t ask but here’s the strategy: take almost all your fluids and calories during those first ten miles of the bike, even if you feel a bit sloshy (not too much, though). By the time you hit T2 everything will be digested.

evillarroel - 2011-06-08 1:45 PM 

Last, I have to say that I know you will go faster than what you’re saying in all three, especially on the bike. The run it depends on how you do your bike and dial your nutrition. Swim will be MUCH faster than 2m/100yds.

Is your eagerness back or still unmotivated?

ironbaby - 2011-06-08 7:43 PM

What is the correlation between climate and HR if all else equal?

It was 105 degrees outside (kind of a high for non-TXns) :-p So I chickened out on the ride and went spinning in the gym. It was a bit hot and humid in there as well. But I noticed that HR was higher than MAHR a lot of times when perceived effort did not seem extraordinarily high. 

I think Maffetone's website talks about pacing oneself on runs if temperature is higher than xx degrees. 

older2533 - 2011-06-09 7:09 AM So far the weather for my olympic on Saturday is shaping up as good.   While about 40 hours ago it was 103 in the afternoon (hottest in 5 years), right now at 7 in the morning it is 51 degrees.  (That's Minnesota for you.  It was -23 one morning this winter.)  Saturday is looking similar.  Predictions are about 48 degrees while I'm setting up, 51 degrees when my wave sets out (last, at 8:09 AM), and no higher than 54 by 11 AM, and partly sunny, with winds under 10 mph.  Could change of course, but predictions here are usually pretty good two days out.  

jdiis - 2011-06-09 11:45 AM

Well, I've joined the Crappy Last Run Before the Race Group.  In the theatre they say a bad dress rehearsal makes for an awesome performance.

I went to school to turn in my keys and run on the track.  They were working on the track.  So I came back home (25 miles) and ran up and walked down a big hill two times.  By the third one halfway up, I was toast.  So I stopped.

I'll just practice my transitions and pack my stuff.  Glad I got that bad one out of the way.

evillarroel - 2011-06-09 1:27 PM You are scaring me now, today I had my last workout before Metroplex and it was great!

jdiis - 2011-06-09 1:31 PM

But you're almost a pro.  Doesn't apply to you. 

squirt - 2011-06-09 1:47 PM

Hey Mike, good to see you!  Seems we are still at it   I too wonder whatever happend to Troy.  Hopefully just a bit of life happening.

Good luck this weekend to Jackie, Ernesto, and anyone else who is racing...or training....or resting.

Doing the Wounded Warrior 10K on Sunday and hoping for a PR.  Ernesto, any advice on pacing (ease in a bit, or try to do it all even)?  I would really, really like to come in under an hour.  But heat acclimation is a work in progress, vacation last week had me loafing some, and I think my longest run this month was 7ish miles.  Best 10K efforts from a few years ago were FRACTIONS of a second from being under one hour, thus my quest.

ironbaby - 2011-06-10 9:20 AM

Thunderstorm, heatwave, heatwave, thunderstorm, thunderstorm .... this week has been terrible for training.

General question/rant/comment - I am too paranoid about riding in post-work hours due to lack of shared roads. Most traffic around here is hulking trucks/SUV's in rush hour. How do you guys your rides done during the week without the comfort of group rides ("strength in numbers" does stop the traffic here)?

jdiis - 2011-06-10 9:37 AM

Gear is packed.  Almost ready to go.

This group has a lot going on this weekend.  Good luck to everyone that's racing.  Can't wait to hear about all the FUN we had!

older2533 - 2011-06-10 10:47 AM

Ok.  Yesterday I did a little OWS at the site of the race and practiced my transitions.    My sighting was awful, but I was able to do the breathe every other stroke thing.  I think I will need to sight every other breath.  (Hard to make oneself do because my swim teacher was always emphasizing keeping the head down.)

My transitions were ok.  I will waste a few seconds putting on socks for the ride and took a little longer than I would have liked to get the VFF's on wet feet, but it was acceptable.  Most of all, I'm happy I was able to get the wetsuit off fairly quickly.

But I couldn't practice quite right with my Garmin since, to my dismay, it was dead.   (It is fully charged now).   So that leaves my question: How EXACTLY do you use a Garmin 305 for a race?  

Here was my plan:  Strap 305 to bike before race starts.  Turn on, have it get signal.  Have it set to "bike" with the screen on the page where it shows cadence.  Hit start when I leave T1.  But will the Garmin stay on during the swim if I don't hit start?  Will it lose the satellites if it turns off?

Next, I was planning on hitting "stop" at the end of the ride.  Take the Garmin off the bike during T2 and strap on wrist.   Then hold the mode button down for a few seconds until it gives me the menu to switch to run.  Up arrow to run, then enter.  Then start when I exit T2.    Seems like a pain.  

So what is the correct way to do this?

evillarroel - 2011-06-10 11:31 AM

If you really, really want to wear it and get metrics then put it in multisport mode, do not include transitions. For that you go to "Training" and then "auto multisport". It will have by default three sports: Other, Bike and Run.

The right way to do it is:

Swim: put it on your wrist or for better accuracy put it under your swim cap (no ziplock bag required). When the gun goes off you press start. If you have it under the cap make sure it is facing upwards and locate the button before the swim starts, when you're waiting in the water.

Bike: put it on your wrist, not the bike and hit the "lap" button to switch to bike mode the moment you mount your bike.

Run: Hit the "lap" button one more time the moment you cross the mat leaving t2.

Another option is to go without the Garmin and just a chronometer with overall time, just hit the lap button in every discipline.

I hope this helped...

older2533 - 2011-06-10 12:05 PM

Ok.  Been playing with the auto multisport.  I get it now.  Thanks Ernesto.  Not sure what I will do with it during the swim.  I don't really like any of the options.  Afraid if I wear it on the wrist I will screw up getting off the wetsuit, and afraid I will lose it if I wear it in the cap.  I will take the transitions hit to strap it to the bike during T1 and unstrap it during T2.  I want to be able to see my heart rate and cadence while biking and I just can't do this if it is on my wrist.  

What if I strapped it the bike before I went to the beach and hit start?  Of course all the time waiting for my wave to start will be added to my swim, but I don't really care about the data for the swim anyway, and I think this will keep it from turning off.  Then, during T1 I can hit the lap button when I get to the bike (to start T1 on the Garmin), hit it again as I exit T1, hit lap again as I enter T2, take Garmin off bike and put on wrist during T2, hit lap as I exit T2, and then stop when I finish the race.  Does this sound like it will work?  (I've hit "include transitions" as an option during "auto multisport").