Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL (Page 29)

junthank - 2009-02-03 4:05 PM

45m 10.80 miles 14.40 Mi/hr
10:00 AM

On the stationary at the gym. I've never intentionally done any cadence work so I tried a little today. Normally on the stationary I just set the level up and pedal at the same cadence the entire workout. So today I experimented and found out that I normally pedal around 60-65rpm's given the level that I choose. Today I thru in a couple 80-82 rpm's in 2 minute rep's (at a lower difficulty level). Mixing it up a little!!!

	15m 1.58 miles 09m 29s/Mi
10:45 AM

On the elliptical.

 That's a 30% increase in cadence and a good way to change it up.  Smart to reduce the resistance as if it doesn't adjust automatically (to hold your work rate) then your work rate would increase quite a bit.  For example, when riding outside... if you pedal the same gear 30% faster then your work rate will go up substantially.

 g

 Weights, walking, yoga... it ALL counts!

 What's your definition of speedwork and what do you have planned?  Let's talk specifics.

 g

junthank - 2009-02-05 10:50 AM

26m 21s 800.00 meters 03m 17s /100 meters
10:00 AM

Nothing but swim technique work today. That means only 3 stroke breathing, chin up chin down, arm pull, etc.. 3 intervals with one minute rest between. 1x200 1x400 1x200 I'm still having issues with my hips sinking when I take a breath. I really notice this on my off side. I think it's probably most related to my kick (or lack of kick I should say). I'll keep working on it.

	41m 30s 4.00 miles 10m 23s/Mi
10:30 AM

In the gym today. Mixture of 10:0.75 and 10:1 walk run ratio. My running HR was a little higher than normal. Went to 10:1 to help bring my HR down a bit. HR was: @10 146 @21 152 @32 150 @41 I always forget to take the last one!!

 Have you considered having a pal film you swimming/breathing -- it might help you understand what's happening when you breathe.  For me, reality in the water can often be quite different than what I feel in the water.

g

 Video now live.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVPnxb6bfG8

G,

Thanks – I got the book yesterday evening.  Last night I had the opportunity to read the first three chapters.  The timing of getting the book could not have been better.  After finishing the Sprint TRI last weekend my thoughts were to move onto the Olympic distance and simply pick any Olympic distance training plan.  Then I read the section in the book about Limiters and I think I need to change my focus to finding a plan that enhances the things I think I are holding me back.

Swimming  -  Without a doubt this is my weakest event.  As I mentioned in my race report my HR was spiked after I got out of the pool.  I got away with it because my event was a Sprint TRI and the distances weren’t that long.  If the race was longer I think the high HR would have really hurt me.  So going forward I need to learn how to relax better in the pool with 3 stroke breathing.  I also need to work on my technique – big time.  My wife did take some video of the race (on her cell phone just to document the event for the kids) and I looked at it briefly.  Jeez, I look nothing likes the guys in the swimming videos doing drills.  In particular, my kick is weak.  How can I explain it?  It’s like my arms are doing 80% of the work and the legs are doing 20% of the work.  So going forward I need to do a total rewind in the pool and just focus on technique.  I probably need to jump immediately to the swimming section of the book.

Biking – Probably my strongest event currently.  I think going forward on the bike I just need to increase my endurance base.  While building the base I need to incorporate things that I have not practiced in training thus far.  Like high cadence intervals and different position (upright, standing) intervals.  I’m not worried about going faster on my bike – just stay in my zones and build my base.

Running – I’m really pleased with how I have progressed with running.  The run/walk protocol has made a hugh difference in how I train.  Going forward I think I just need to increase my endurance base while constantly reminding myself of the running tips in your Youtube videos.  Again, I’m not worried about going faster – just stay in my zones and build my base.

I know I rambling here on the forum but like you said it helps when thinking about these things “outloud”. 

Well yesterday was a wipeout, so I moved my Friday rest day to Wed, moved Wed to Thur. Work schedule this week is a nightmare - I'm just focusing on trying to maintain consistency.

Morning - 1 hour on the trainer in a 17 degree garage. Easy pace, very tough mentally. Just wanted to quit. Gutted it out and glad I did.

HR Data

Snuck out at lunchtime for a quick strength workout. Had to cut down the rest time between sets\exercises to fit it in. Not sure that was the best idea. Maybe I should get a bluetooth so I can workout and do conf calls at the same time!

Hi G

for my speedwork I was thinking of shortening the runs to 5-6km and run the whole way at 5 mins per km ( my expected race speed) or do intervals of 1km in under 4:30 with a 90 second recovery between.

I used to do this and then did my first 10k in 50:19 last october but it was painful so would like to be able to get to that speed for the end leg of an olympic tri. At the time I didn't have a HR monitor but would guess I was near my max levels during the intervals. Am still aiming to do the long and slow runs as well to build myself up for a half marathon end of march

appreciate any advice

Dave

another super workout w coach J.  1500 yds w the group.  and i came in early a did 300 yds on my own.  1800 yds.  AND i got kicked TWICE during the group wrkout.  have the bruises to prove it.  NOW im a REAL triathlete LOL.

DATA SWIM WRKOUT 2/5  1800 YDS.

3x100 warm up on my own

300 warm up w the group

10x50 - sprint/easy intervals w :15sr

4x100 - w varied stroke on last 100 w :15sr  [i did backstroke 2x25 and breaststroke 2x25]

2x50 - underwater kicking  [i did 3 breaths/25 yd]

1x100 - cool down.

as i see people struggle through the workout, two things im really glad about:  first, that i spent ALL that time early on w balance drills.  i hear people say how 'all over the place' they feel in the water.  i got the msg loud and clear (both by G. and the Beginners swim info here on the site) BODY PLACEMENT AND ALIGNMENT is oh so essential to the swim.  so the first two months i was in the pool the ONLY thing i did was BALANCE drills.  such drudgery at the time (or so i though) but reaping the benefits now, definately.

second, when i see people 'dying' by mid-workout, im glad that ive been listening to G. and doing what builds ENDURANCE - staying in the low-end of the zone (not just w the swim, but all three disciplines) 3 stroke breathing, focusing on staying relaxed, going LONG, not FAST.  and for me being mindful when im working unnecessarily hard...

im not the 'fastest' swimmer in the pool, not by a long shot, but man, i can go WAY longer than most.  and, my stroke/breathing stays 'intact' throughout.  and i dont feel hammered at the end of the workout.  a little bruised and battered after this one, but no worse for the wear.

got to the end and could have done 400-500 yds more, no problem. WE'LL USE THE RESERVE FOR TODAYS WORKOUT....

the group wants to know, WHATS YOUR SECRET?  im happy to clue them in...its what Coach G. has been telling me/us all along - BODY ALIGNMENT, RELAXATION, 3 STROKE BREATHING and EXTENDING YOUR RELAXED SWIMMING ENDURANCE ENVELOPE.

im starting to REAP THE REWARDS of all the steady, consistent work ive been putting in.  

and like many of us are beginning to report, Gs plan DOES work.  [as if there was any doubt....] 

a good place to be, when you start seeing 'THE EVIDENCE', and knowing that all that consistency and persistence is paying off.  [they have their rewards, thats for sure....]

BUT this is no place to 'rest on my laurels', theres still plenty of work to be done...

its, ONWARDANDUPWARD.

G.  question.  since most of the swim wrkts that im doing w the group, involve some form a speedwork, should i just do what the group is doing or should i do my own thing during those sets?  [the coach left it up to me....]

gauranteed my HR is 'up there'.

my form stays intact (for the most part, though i do notice when i cross over into that 'working too hard unnecessarily' territory my form falls apart.  a good indicator)

ive been working at making the 'adjustment' to the faster 'cadence' in the speedwork ie increasing my kick, getting used to the rhythm of my stroke and breathing, quicker turn over in my arms, and staying relaxed even though im swimming faster...

i dont mind doing the speed work, its just not something that i do/focus on in my regular wrkts, when im on my own, and not something thats a focus in my trng overall.

maybe its good to 'mix it up'  J. does a good job having a balance of BOTH speework and endurance drills, so im not concerned in that way.  and ive communicated clearly to her what my goals are ie triathlons, multisport, endurance et al.

this is the thing.  i dont want to do anything at this point that would 'mess with' my trng protocol esp the endurance end of things  AND id like to be able to participate w the group, as much as possible. 

i suppose this is one of the downsides of swimming w a group, huh?

i dont feel any pressure to perform for the group or the coach, so that's not an issue.  nor do i feel the need to 'keep up' or do what everyone else doing. im happy as a clam going slow and steady.   im sure at some point speedwork is something that i will/want to work on, but is that time now?

HOW DO I GO ABOUT DOING SPEED WORK SO THAT IT ENHANCES MY ENDURANCE TRAINING, NOT DETRACTS FROM IT? 

thoughts?  any tips to keep in mind during the speedwork sets so that i can get the most out of the wrkout?  or am i 'splitting hairs' here?  [that need to be precise again]

thanks in advance.

Hey Stacie,

excellent swim workout, good to see the drills have made a difference. Come race day you will be like a jetski !

Am x2 on your question above as well

thanks DAVE.  a jetski, indeed!  and look at you MR FLYING-FISH.

on those days when i think, drills, drills and more drills, UGH are they REALLY worth it? 

ill be sure to remember yesturdays workout, and the feeling that i had....to feel competent and proficient.  WOW.  what a feeling....

steady as she goes

stacieb

G. one more question.

ANY TIPS/SUGGESTIONS on how to deal w water turbulence resulting from swimming in a group.

im SURE what i experienced last night comes no wheres near the turbulence you will encounter w a multithousand member group in an open water swim [just wait huh?], but....

w 5 people circle swimming in a 25 yd lane, and a 3 member group in the lane next to you, and 4 member group of master swimmers in the lane on the other side, the water got DICY.

my main issue is when i would turn to breathe a wave of water would hit me, it would get in my open mouth, i couldnt take a full breath, then my rhythm felt 'off'...

QUESTION.  do i just turn and take a full breath in the next stroke/on the other side, then just resume my three stroke breathing/get back into my rhythm or.....

then there were moments when you just couldnt see in front or below you (ah.  can we say, open water swimming even wout turbulence)  QUESTION:  how do you orient yourself in the water when you cant 'see'?  ie the lane markers, the person in front of you, the line at the bottom of the pool.

then getting hit/kicked twice.  par for the course im sure.  that im assuming i just need to learn to 'shake off' and keep moving forward.  no blood spilt this time, ill count my blessings.

any suggestions on how to deal w TURBULENCE in a pool swim w multiple people in a lane so that it has the LEAST AMOUNT OF IMPACT on your swim ie stroke/breathing/relaxation level et al.?

jenni4 - 2009-02-05 4:42 PM Hey all, what's going on all. Back at it after adjusting to a new class schedule and an ice storm and no power. Started a local biggest loser challenge today with a friend and we signed up at the Y so we can work out together since they have child care for her children. Also signed up for the Tour de Cure Little Rock Metric Century Ride. Now I've just gotta train and work on getting donations

HI JENN

WELCOME BACK.

YOUR A WOMAN WITH A PLAN AND ON THE MOVE thats for sure!  THE CHALLENGE, THE Y, THE RACE.....WOO HOO FOR YOU!

I lost 62 pounds using the BL online program and have maintained for 1 1/2 yrs now. 

GOOD LUCK TO YOU in your BL CHALLENGE.

im assuming the Tour de Cure is to raise funds for cancer, or is it for some other cause?  do you have a donation website yet?

GOOD TO SEE YOU!

stacieb

 Some ideas for you:

 Don't sweat the kick -- unless you are in a max effort Elite ITU swim start, you're better off saving that O2 for your bike/run.

 The video is really valuable footage -- the raw reality of our technique comes out in a race.

 High HR after swim -- if you want to specifically address this then swim/bike sessions where you exit the water and jump on your trainer -- this will train your ability to transition from swim muscles to bike muscles.  Also, relax a bit at the end of the swim and walk transition -- give a little speed so that you reduce transition stress, don't spike and can get to work faster on the bike.

 Overall, the approach makes a lot of sense to me.

 g

 Do you use strides in your week?  Remember your quickness training that I mentioned.  Low stress and essential neuro-muscular development.

 You might get better overall development from incorporating a bit of tempo inside your steady training.  Let's say steady pace is ~6 min per K and mod-hard (or even threshold) is ~5 min per K... for you.  A pattern like this...

 4x... 3 min steady/3 min mod-hard/3 min steady/1 min power walk

 That's a 40 min endurance set where you are working different speeds and building intensive endurance.  The injury risk is low, mentally not too draining and you can rack up a couple miles at 10K race pace.  If you jump to running 40 mins at 10K race pace then that will be really stressful on the body and you run the risk of messing with your consistency (which is really what causes improvement -- not smashing yourself or learning extreme pain management).

 There is an implicit assumption in our discussion that you are limited by threshold run pace/endurance.  Generally, you might find that your fatigue is best generated from steady-state cycling with workout duration up to your total race duration.  For getting tired, that is normally a "money" session in terms of return on time invested.  Very specific to the limiters we face in a tri.

 g

 Remember that my favorite drill is continuous swimming using your best technique -- make sure that your drills are brought into your swimming.  The goal of drills is to improve swimming, not get great at drills.

 Good Qs.

 Turbulence -- #1 relax, you're going to be OK if you miss a breath.  That's important to remember.  Your method of getting in a quick sneaky breath -- good one and made a lot easier by being good at three-stroke!

 Can't See -- #1 relax, you aren't going to crash if you swim 3-4 strokes blind.  Even if you do crash... GREAT open water training!  So do your best.  With increase experience you will learn to feel the draft/bubbles of the person in front of you -- you'll be able to follow along without looking up at all.  In a pool, you have lane lines -- assuming three-stroke -- you will be able to see the lane line every 6 strokes (or even sooner if you sneak a peak with your head down).  You can also use the side of the pool (or Mtns, or lake side) to navigate when you breath (don't lift your head, though!).

 Kicked/Hit -- five people in 25 yard lane -- that is 50 yards of lane total -- that is 10 yards per person.  You may have been swimming a bit too tight!  Nascar swim training.... :-)  gap things out a bit and learn to use the full lane.

g

junthank - 2009-02-06 10:22 AM

1h 10m 17.50 miles 15.00 Mi/hr
10:00 AM

On the stationary in the gym. Did 3x20 minute intervals with 1x10 minute CD. During the 20 minute intervals I did 17 minutes of 60-65 rpm's (I call this my Florida flats cadence) in my biking HR zone (HR between 125-130 and pace probably around 16-17 mph). Also in the 20 minute interval I did 2 minutes of 80-82 rpm cadence in an easier gear, and a 1 minute low gear standup "hill climb" (my HR does spike when I do this: 158-160). During the 17 minutes I alternate between TT and setup positions. Nice workout. Definitely went by faster even without the iPod.

 Goal for you.... 10 minutes standing with HR no higher than 140 bpm.  It will be a valuable skill for your portfolio.

 g

THANKS G.  you hit the nail on the head!  i start to get PANICKY when i cant see or breathe.

gonna have to learn to relax and go with it.  im NOT gonna drown. 

SNEAKY BREATHS.  gotcha.

i CAN stroke 3-4xs BLIND.  i CAN. 

SNEAK A PEAK w your head down.  got it.

and if i crash, well.....

as for the knocks i DID take, i got kicked from the side not the front. 

the guy who kicked me, both times, crossed over, past the center of the lane.  i was hugging the lane marker on the opposite side as close as i could, and STILL got kicked.  lack of profiency/experience on his part.  no big deal.  youll have that.  just something i need to shrug off, keep moving forward. 

my reaction was lift up my head, stop stroking, to 'see' if i was OK.  kinda silly now, its not like i was hurt hurt.  an urge to resist.  im CERTAIN this happens in competition.

thanks for the visuals for the open water swim.  thats gonna be a whole new experience when we 'cross' that 'bridge'.

feelin' the draft/bubbles sounds like it will be great, when i get to level of proficiency.  at least i know what your talking about, i started taking notice of the bubbles this past workout...attending is a good first step....is there a DRAFT EFFECT when you swim in a group.  i would think so.....

5 people in a lane thats only 25 yds long seemed like a lot to me.  is it possible that would be the 'conditions' during a competition w an indoor pool swim?  are there 'regulations' for that sort of thing?   max # of people per yard?

i do a good job keeping the GAP.  dont want to end up w a bloody nose.  im a girl, afterall.

who knew swimming was a contact sport.  LOL.

when you say to LEARN TO USE THE FULL LANE what do you mean exactly? 

G.  POINT WELL TAKEN......i guess my point was that its AFFIRMING to experience when the technique MASTERED in drillwork (from times past) MANIFESTS in improved swimming/efficiency.  a MELDING.

bringing the drills into your swimming.  i get it.

thanks for the reminder.  SWIM!

a nice jaunt around the indoor track

35 min run

HR DATA 2/6 35 MIN RUN

START:  100

10 MIN:  128

6 MIN:  136/134  6 laps completed (running)  [11 laps=1 mile]

13 MIN:  140/136  5 laps completed [though im wondering if i miscounted?]

20 MIN:  140/128  6 laps completed

27 MIN:  142/130  6 laps completed

34 MIN:  151/142  6 laps completed  [picked up the pace a little]

4 MIN/END:  102

AV:  135;  PK:  153

VERY pleased with myself.  did a MUCH better job maintaining an even pace throughout and to keep my HR in the zone.  ALL that wout the TM.  woo hooo!

steady as she goes.