Give it a Tri - CLOSED (Page 3)

Week 2/25 (that's the hope)

I continue with my bragging about my training:

Monday: -

Tuesday: Swim: 6x200 m (mostly around 5:15-5.25)

Wednesday: -

Thursday: Stat bike in gym: 20K in 38 mins

Friday: -

Saturday: Stat bike at home: 45 mins 

Sunday: Run 5K / Swim 3x250 m (no time for more)

The good news: after the 3x250 swim today I felt really cocky so I thought it was time to see how "fast" I could do 50m. Result: 56 secs. I know it's pathetic for many but for me it's a big success.

Take care

Lars

Hi Mike,

What are your thoughts about doing indoor triathlons?  I signed up for my first indoor sprint tri on March 3rd for practice.    I ran for 15 min today and so far my feet are doing okay, but I am still very tentative about running more than that.  Eventually, I'd like to do a sprint tri some time in may/june and an olympic tri august or septemer (but it depends if my feet can handle it).

Also, I completed my first sprint tri last year using the total immersion swim technique (have you heard of that?) so that my legs aren't fatigued for the bike and run afterwards. Anyways, I am super slow (400 meters in 18 minutes).  I am sure my technique isn't great and I am not willing to pay the amount of money for the total immersion clinic.  Do you have any technique tips as to how I can improve my time or technique? My guess is to increase my stroke frequency.  

Thank you

Jasmine

Hi Jasmine,

I'm sure Mike and probably others in the forum have way better advice to give than I do. Still, I'm proud of the progress I've achieved, i.e. from being exhausted and out of breath after 50 m "freestyle" to being able to swim for example 6x200m (with one minute break) without getting any tired. I always train alone because of my working hours but my little brother is a swim instructor and even though we live 2000 kms apart, he has given a lot of advice. Therefore, I allow myself to mention the elements I consider have been fundamental for me.

- Breathing:

1) Bilateral. Took time and patience, but it's worth it. Basically means you can breathe whenever it's needed.

2) Make sure you actually get enough air in and that you get all of it out under water. I myself was a little surprised when I found out that I really didn't get any in, but just gasped in an uncontrolled way. 

- Propulsion:

1) Legs are mainly for balance.   

2) It's the hand movement that gives propulsion, i.e. hands have to go backward to push you forward, not downward as happens often.

- Arm position:

1) Not too stretched out in front of you. When on videos it looks like the arm is fully stretched out, it's actually because the swimmer is gliding forward.

2) When arm passes under shoulder area - not inside under body nor swaying outwards - , it shouldn't be fully stretched but slightly bent.

- Stroke and Speed:

1) Strokes ought to be continuous without pauses as it might cause one to sink.

2) I have read that increased rate doesn't tire as much as could be thought. There are several videos on the Internet showing different stroke rates. Quite interesting to watch Lotte Friis and Sun Yang from the 2011 WC by the way. For me as a beginner I still just try to be comfortable in the water. I hope that with consistent training, a little more speed will somehow someday come.

- Take it easy:

Initially I was fighting the water like an enemy. Probably the worst one can do. Take it easy - you have to feel comfortable in the water. I am still too tense, especially referring to breathing, it's not relaxed and natural yet.

- Watch and listen to advice:

Which we all probably do, but also in this/these sport(s) it is a key element. I'have learnt a lot from different websites and instructional videos and from my little brother. I write down what I suppose/know are the important elements to keep in mind and I actually review the list quite often to have them present when in the water. 

- My own training method:

Having read and listened to other people who know much more than I do, I still want to design my own way of doing things (typically male?). As I am still a beginner, I find that doing for example 10x100m or 6x200 or the like makes it easier for me to control all the different elements without ending up gasping for breath. I feel more comfortable, strength increases, and swimming a longer distance non-stop does not seem a frightening prospect anymore. Well, when I say longer, it means a 400m test or something like that.

Take care

Lars

Lars, good work-out week there.  My psychology tip of the day:  Never put qualifiers (ie "I know its pathetic for some") in a brag post.  Remember you are competing against yourself as a beginner triathlete.  The progress you've made to date is outstanding.  Michael Phelps swam a :50 50m at some point in his life too!

Great advice to Jasmine for the swimming.

Jasmine,  swimming is mostly technique and your question on where to find technique is a good one.  I am familiar with Total Immersion and he makes good points.  I personally don't think anyone needs to throw down good money for a "clinic".  There are many thoughts on how to achieve "proper" technique.  Proper being a nebulous term that means something that makes you comfortable and fast in the water.  I've been a swimmer since grade-school.  My stroke technique has changed a dozen times over the years.  Sometimes because I second guess myself after watching someone else and try to become "better".  I'm a bit of a mess now as I'm in between two styles and am not very efficient at either...  Here are a couple of tips/drills that have helped me in the past:

1. Single arm drills.  Keep one arm extended out in front of you and do laps with only one arm. (May need pull buoy to keep legs up since you'll be slower).  This lets you focus on what your arm is doing the entire stroke.

2. Catch-up drill (I think thats what its called):  Similar to single arm pulls, but you do use both arms.  With both arms extended out front, do a pull with one arm, then return it to the front after a complete stroke, glide for a second, then pull with other arm.  Again, this lets you concentrate on the movement of your arm.  Pull buoy helps here too.

3.  One technique theory says that your arm should be making the motion like you are grabbing around a barrel and pulling yourself over it. Much of your power can/should come from your forearm rather than your hands.  Trying swimming with your hands balled up in fists, so that you angle your arms such that your forearms provide your thrust. (This one feels weird and you will feel like you are thrashing about...)

4.  Your body will find where it is comfortable.  This sounds dumb, but its true.  The more time you spend in the water, the more comfortable you'll be and you will find a "natural frequency".  It may not be the best as compared to other swimmers but will be the best for you at that moment in time.

Oh yeah: Indoor Tri's.  I have never done one (beyond doing it as training at a gym myself).  Having talked to folks who have raced them, I understand the swim can be a little confusing since you are trying to fit a number of folks in a small pool, but I don't recall anyone ever saying "Indoor sucks, I'll never do that again".  It does save some of the transition drama about running through sand and dirt.

Hope that helps.

r/

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the tip. You are very right. I work as a teacher and have many times given similar advice. Curiously, I sometimes need to receive it myself (or maybe it's not that curious but rather a quite human condition). 

You mention that you have changed stroke technique several times and that you are now between 2 styles. It could be interesting to hear a little more about that should you find a moment...

Regards,

Lars

Lars,

 I'll try to describe.  Basically it comes down to what your hand/arm is doing while underwater.  Many moons ago, my arm transcribed a semi-circle, like a paddlewheel in the water.  Then while on a swim-team, the coach got me to do this thing where my hand sculled out to the side, then back in to my chest followed by a push straight back.  I did that for a number of years.  Then tried to go back to a more straight arm style because I though I was just doing too much movement underwater and was making my turn-over (speed) slow.  More recently I've done online research and video watching and see most doing the "barrel grab" where you kinda just pull straight back but not at full extension.  So now I find myself with a mash-up of styles.  Early in the set I am doing a good "barrel grab", but as I get tired or lazy, my stroke becomes either a straight pull or even my old complicated thing (I guess muscle memory is hard to change).  I can't say that one is better than the other; what matters is what is the most "efficient" for me.  I'm still working on it.

Good morning

re.swimming. I am also at total loss with swimming, as I did not learn freestyle until a few years ago. Someone from the local swim squat told me recently that I kick too hard with my legs, which makes me tired and does not help to speed me up as much, so that confused me completly. Now I swim pretty much without using my legs and have not found a good rythm. I must admit, that since I stopped kicking as wildly I can swim larger distances more comfortably, but is there some technique like kick once when you pull with your arm?

Mike, i am still thinking about chaffing... As I am not racing to beat mine or anyone else's best time this time around (as it is my first sprint tri), I am considering to swim just in my bathers and then pull on my shorts before getting on the bike. Will take some time, but at least I won't have my shorts full of sand and salt. I have worn my shorts previously when swimming, but that was fresh water (and I was so glad, as it was a stinking hot day).

I am getting more and more excited but also nervous when thinking of the tri. The countdown has started

Cheerio, Leila

Leila,

 Didn't mean to scare you about the sand.   Tri-shorts are designed to be swum in and they are tight enough that they won't let in a bunch of sand and debris.  I was just recommending a little fresh water to clear out the salt.  You wouldn't be wrong or the only one to do whatever plan you'd like to do.  Some people wear one outfit the entire race, some change clothes at each transition.  I've seen people get buck-naked in transition (much to the dismay of race officials).   Don't over-think it, just enjoy the moment and if you encounter something that doesn't go according to plan, then laugh about it, make a mental note and drive on.  Remember, this is supposed to be fun! 

Hi Mike,

I am looking so much forward to this event Only a short time ago, I would never have thought, I could do this and now I don't feel over confident, but surely confident that I will not have a DNF next to my name

Thanks for all the hints + tips, I willl report back next week

G'Day Mike & all!

I have finished my first sprint tri in Husky this morning I am absolutely delighted and whenever I felt low, I thought of Mike: "Remember this is supposed to be fun". and then I had a look around, briefly enjoyed the parrots in the forrest or ocean views and continued

The ocean swim was great. The water temps were above 22 deg, we had a deep water start, the tide was just turning from low and the bay was flat as a pan cake. I started at the end of the pack, but overtook a few on the way, but it was ok. There were 700 women in the comp, but we started in waves, though my age group was the second largest wave.

The cycling was ok, but I just could not keep up with the road bikes, pushing along on my little mountain bike was kind of frustrating, lol. And then I was pretty tired for the run. Definitely have to run way more!

Haven't got the results yet...

So this was my little race report, I am happy now Cheerio, Leila

CONGRATS LEILA!!!!!

Put some bags of frozen peas on your knees and start planning for the next race!!

LSBerlin,

Congratulations!

Should you feel like expanding your race report, I am sure I am not the only one who would be very interested in reading it!

Regards,

Lars

Week 3/25

Monday: - (planned rest)

Tuesday: - (rest day, definitely not due to the Patxaran the night before knowing that Tuesday was a day off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patxaran) title="Innocent" src="/discussion/jscripts/tiny_mce3.4b3/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-innocent.gif" alt="Innocent" border="0" />

Wednesday: - (planned rest and a lot of work)

Thursday: Swim: 4x250 m + 2x500m

Friday: -

Saturday: Swim: 1500 m non-stop in 40-41 mins / Run 5 K

Sunday: Stat bike home 45 mins

Comments: I have never swum that far non-stop. I am actually quite proud.

Leila,

Glad to hear your race went well.  I appreciate your initial write up too.  Let us know when you get your results and you have more time to reflex on the how the whole experience went.

Chris 

Hi all,

thanks for the comments

Even if it might be embarassingly slow, here are my results:

I swam 750m in 17:13 - which I think is ok.

I cycled on my poxy little mountain bike the 20km in 57:10, which was expected.

I walked and shuffled the 5km in 39:16, which is pretty pretty pour.

Nevertheless I am proud to have finished!

Slightly extended version for all who are interested:

I was very nervous. I was up early and at the registration about 1hr before it opened - only to find out when it eventually opened that I needed ID for registration which I conveniently left in the hotel room 5km away. So after an emergency delivery by my lovely hubby, I registered late, got late into transition and was well stressed out making sure everything was ready in transition.

Great was to have my family at the start line The ocean was nice and flat and the swim was really good. I managed transition to the bike in 2:49 and then followed the depressing stretch of one road bike after another overtaking me on the 20km ride. I think I managed to overtake one other mountain bike on the whole trip. My legs ached and all I had in my mind is to pace myself in order to finish. I guess I paced myself too much, but better slow than not at all. I will know better next time. For the run I was buggered. I did transition in 1:59 - I took my time. I could not feel my feet.

There were a few nice moments of people encouraging me during the tri. Some girls on bike shouted encouragement and a woman actually ran a bit with me, telling me to focus on her red socks and putting one foot in front of the other. Many told me I had come to close not to finish. I found that lovely

I have learnt to take my heart rate monitor and my watch. I know the pace I can sustain for a prolonged period and I felt at loss without it. I found pacing and even motivation difficult without having any idea how long I had been on the road or how far I had come - they had no distance markers at all.

I know now that I have to run a lot more. Trying to run with legs tired from a long ride is testing for me - especially as I have never been a runner. And I know that I have to push myself more.

I know now that I should get myself a proper bike

I know that there is no way I can do the olympic distance by mid May so I will try to downgrade back to sprint. I will leave olympic for next season or later.

Mike, I really struggle with losing feeling in my feet and getting pins of needles when riding for a long time - any suggestions?

I feel really good since the tri and have started training again today - probably even more motivated because now I know what I am training for. I will be mainly confined to the gym + pool now, but hope to get a few outdoor sessions in every weekend.

I think I am well and truly hooked now Have a great day!

Leila,

 Good report.  Loss of feeling or pins & needles in feet usually comes from not having well fitting footwear on the bike.  This is very common and the type of shoes that works for one person may not work for another.  You said you were on your mountain bike; did you have clip-in pedals or just plain old pedals?  Did you ride in your running shoes?

One of the bigger gains one can see with a bike (apart from going from mountain to road bike) is putting pedals that you "clip-in" to.  There are a variety of styles with advocates for each (Speedplay, SRM, Look, etc).  With the pedals, goes a special pair of shoes that have a cleat mounted to the bottom that connects to that pedal.

Advantages:  

1. Allows more efficient use of legs, as you can put energy into the entire pedal stroke, rather than just pushing down.

2. Shoes are bike specific and you can adjust how they fit as well as the cleat placement to avoid the pins & needles.

Disadvantages:

1. Takes practice to get clipped-in and out.  You will fall over at least once.  May as well gather all of your family and friends and do it in your driveway to just get it out of the way.

2. Shoes can be expensive (like everything else in this sport).  Recommend ebay.  Mountain bike shoes are less expensive that road bike shoes and there is no reason you couldn't use them on a road bike.

Congrats again.

r/

Mike

Hi Mike,

My mountain bike is a bulky cheap little one, initially meant for me to ride down to the shopping centre, so I ride with my running shoes - and never even thought it might come from that... Thank you.

Talking about bikes and cleats. Where do I start? How much is a reasonable amount to spend? What are good brands? Will a second hand one from Ebay do the job for now or should I really get a fitted one? Is it sufficient to just find out what size bike I need, get a second hand one and then have it professionally fitted? Is there something good inbetween a real roadbike and one for rougher terrain - the roads out here are terrible, I can just see myself having constant punctures. What do I need to remember when buying a bike, thinking of changing tyres on the side of the road (definite benefit of my monster mountain bike!)?

Cleats: are there some better for triathlons? How can you run with cleats on (I am talking about in transition now)? Do cycle shops do fittings like running shops?

So many questions, but probably best to ask first Thanks heaps. Best regards, Leila

Two more

What's the difference between a road bike and a triathlon bike?

What's the difference between a bike for a man and a woman (apart from the colour)?

And is it worth looking out for it?

Great race report and congratulations again.

And yes, it seems there is room for improvement, which must make training the coming months even more exciting.

And I must say I also find your swim time quite impressive.

As to bike: I have a new Cannondale CAAD8 and paid all in all ap. 800 euros. However, I am sure there must be other good bargains to get. Others will let you know.

I do not have these click-ons but the good old-fashioned straps. The reason is that I tried my neighbour's mountain bike with click-ons a couple of times and that did not go well. Let's just say I am glad I tried it in a place with nobody else around. Luckily nothing serious happened. I was therefore quite convinced when I asked for straps. Plus you can ride with your running shoes on, and with the objectives I personally have, there is no need for sophisticated equipment.

Anyway, the others will tell you much more about bikes and more.

Kind regards

Lars

Ok gang, buckle up.  Its time to talk about bikes.  I will try to give you some info about bikes but keep in mind that is can be a very heated and contentious issue.  If you scan the forum you'll find a majority of the posts on BT are about bikes and fitting and pros/cons of different components.

1. Types:  Bikes come in a variety of frame styles.  I'll talk about just a couple that are relevant to triathlons.  First: Mountain Bike - Built for strength and shock absorption.  Is a heavy beast designed for abuse.  Positions your body almost upright for balance and control.  Second:  Road Bike - Lighter frame, designed for speed.  Body is bent forward for better aerodynamics than mountain bike.   Third: Triathlon Bike - A road bike that is "leaning forward".  The position of the seat in relationship to the crank is slightly different than a road bike (is more forward), which means you use your legs in a slightly different manner.  Is designed to help you save your legs for the run.  Also has "aerobars", which are a different handlebar setup than a road bike.  Aerobars are meant to lower your body profile to improve your aerodynamics and make you more efficient.

2.  Can you race on a mountain bike?  Yes, but you will eventually get tired of getting passed by everyone.  Is a great bike to do your first race(s) but if you plan to continue after you've checked the block from your to-do list, you will want a road/tri bike.

3.  Road bike or Tri-bike?  If you plan to race for money, you may want to invest in a tri-bike.  If this is just a hobby, you will notice very little difference between a purpose built tri-bike and a road bike with triathlon components.  (you can put aerobars on a road bike and get a forward angled seat post to come 99% to a tri-bike).

4.  Brand new or eBay?  Every bike I've ever owned came from the classifieds or I built from eBay parts.  I did make it to the podium 3 times on an eBay bike.  You'd be amazed what new bikes sell for.  This is a scary industry and many triathletes get caught up in the "newer, lighter, faster" gotta-have-it mentality and will end up getting the latest carbon-fiber everything Tri-bike for $6000.  I personally think thats nuts.  Unless I have a sponsor paying me to race, I can't begin to entertain spending that kind of money on a bloody bicycle!  You can easily find a good road bike for $200 and then spend another $100-$200 for upgraded parts (if you want).  I just built my wife's first bike and spent about $300 (whereas the cheapest "new" racing bike at my local shop was $750).  You absolutely should go to a local shop and get measured though.  Try out the different frames they offer and get them to tell you your size.  Be advised, some bike manufacturers use different measurements.  For 90% though, the measurement that is used is the "Toptube", measured in centimeters.  For me, I'm 6'1" and I need a bike with toptube 58cm-60cm.  This is a good site for measurements if you can't hit a store.  It is WAY more info than you really need but if you like to crunch numbers...http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO

Once you have your bike, you should absolutely get it properly fitted at your local shop.  Expect to pay about $100 for a fitting.  This will save you much pain later.

5. Male vs Female:  In a cruiser or kids bike boy and girl bikes have different frames.  In a road or tri-bike there is no difference except color for marketing.

6. Cleats and pedals.  You will want to have some way to secure your foot to the pedal in order to get a better full-range stroke.  One way is via foot-straps (toe straps).  This is a plastic cage with a nylon strap that you can wear any shoe with.  Pro: can wear your running shoes.  Cheap.  Con: Your foot can move alot.  You may not be able to get out of them quickly, especially if you really tighten the strap to stop the movement.  The more common way is via cleats.  A metal cleat is screwed into the bottom of bike specific shoes that connect into a pedal.  Pro: Locks your foot to the pedal for a good stroke.  Con: Can be expensive, takes some practice to learn to clip in and out.  There are three types that I'm aware of, or at least that I've used:  SPD, Look, Speedplay.  There really aren't any great advantages of one over another.  I started with SPD which was fine (and is what you'll find on most spin-bikes and exercise bikes in gyms).  I switched to Look only because my new bike already had look pedals.  I did find Look easier to clip in that SPD.  Most recently I switched to speedplay because the pedals can be clipped in via either side (so you don't have to look and see if the pedal is right-way up) and have more "float" (ability of your foot to move around a little; if you have a less-than-ideal form you can hurt your knees if your foot can't move a little bit).  Shoes:  You can use mountain bike shoes on a road bike.  Mountain bike shoes have a thicker rubber sole and tread so you can walk the mountain trail and push your bike up the steep hills.  Road bike shoes have little tread and are light.  You can walk on the cleat for short distances (transition areas) without much issue.  Tri shoes are just road shoes with holes to drain water...more of an advertising gimmick than anything else in my opinion.

7. Carbon fiber.  carbon, carbon everywhere.  I'll just come out and say it.  You do NOT need the latest carbon gadget for your bike.  The super-racers have carbon bikes with carbon wheels and carbon seatposts, carbon handlebars and carbon water bottle cages.  The difference between most of these parts is so insignificant that its actually sad so many fall for it.  Sure, you could replace your aluminum water bottle cage with a carbon fiber one or you could just eat one less peanut before the race...saves the same weight.  If you find yourself coming in 4th place by seconds in your races then maybe getting ultra lightweight parts might be worth the money.  Otherwise, take advantage of those poor fools and buy their "old parts" from them on ebay for a fraction of what they originally paid. 

8. My recommendation.  If you want a racing bike, get yourself measured and then find a second hand road bike for sale.  Get a set of clip-on aerobars and fasten them to your road bike handlebars and voila!  Triathlon bike.

9.  Leila, a tri-bike makes a lousy commuter bike for around town or rough roads.  The middle solution is whats known as a Touring Bike.  Essentially a road bike frame but mountain bike handlebars and tires that are larger/wider than a road bike but not quite as big/robust as a mountain bike.  You could race one of these in place of a mountain bike and do a better job, but will still be in an upright position and not very aerodynamic.

That was alot of info and I could keep going on components and frame material and what-not but I'll stop now and see if anyone has any other specific questions.

r/

Mike

Hi everybody,

Now that my swimming has improved somewhat and I am even able to swim 1500 m without ending up exhausted (though it takes quite a long time), I have started to wonder what it would take to participate in an open-water long distance swim race.

If, for example, I were to sign up to a race in late summer or autumn with a distance of 4 - 6 km, what would you recommend as necessary training in order not to suffer excessively and with the only goal of finishing with dignity?

It should be taken into account that I live in the middle of the mountains and basically never go to the beach, wherefore training will take place almost exclusively in the local pools.

Any comments welcome.

Kind regards

Lars

Lars,

You can get there, but you'd need to spend quite a bit more time in the pool.  Ideally you should be able to do the race distance in the pool but failing that I'd recommend being able to do at least 80% of the race distance in the pool (continuously swimming).  Why 80%?   I think the adrenaline/pressure of a race environment can get you through the remaining 20%.

There are unique things to an open-water swim that you don't have in the pool, and that you can't really train for in a pool.  Things like no wall push-offs (and the break/rest they provide), wave chop, water taste in your mouth (salt or mud).  They do impact a race, but arent' enough that you need to stress over them. (especially since you can't do anything about them so why spend the brain energy worrying?).

r/

Mike