Eliwashere's spring fling mentor group!-Full (Page 3)

Awesome 10k Dave.  You're right - you're going to have to step up your zone target paces!

Hey everybody,

Thanks for checking out my training logs.  The encouragement is really appreciated.  1st "official" training week behind me.  So far so good.

Charlie

Got a question on HR zones.  I did a run this morning for about 44 minutes (my "long" run for the week).  First 15 minutes or so I was in Z1-2, and for the next 20 or so I was in Z3 except for a brief point when I pushed myself for 2 minutes at a pace higher than normal, when I peaked into Z4.

Is this too much time in Z3, or maybe a better question would be what % of my time should be spent in these zones?  I didn't feel particularly drained at the end, in fact could have kept going for a bit more.  Just want to make sure I am doing the most with my time.  Am I thinking too much about this stuff?

I have attached a picture of the graph in case that helps, but I didn't hit start on my HRM until about 10 minutes in so that does not show up.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.  I have never really trained like this before, so it is all new right now.

 

There's so many schools of thought on heart rate training.  So this opinion is nothing more than that, take it with a mound of salt.

I think if you're going to work up your long run, the pace and HR aren't really the important thing.  It's just critical to keep upping the time on your feet, but only a little per week.  I tend to keep my HR below Z3 for long runs except for long/steep hills, but I'm not really targeting a heart rate or pace, I just keep the effort low enough to sustain and not feel dead a the end.  But since you're following a plan, what does the plan say?  I'd stick to the plan and trust it.

You might be over thinking it a little, but isn't that what makes this whole thing even more fun?

I agree about overthinking. It's not as precise, but I find I do my best training when I focus on RPE rather than heart rate.

I should rephrase-I like the FIRST program, and HIT style training, but only after you have built  a solid base.
The science behind HIT cardio sytle training seems valid, and has been well known for a while.
Look for this book:

Total Fitness in 30 Minutes a Week 

I can agree about the idea of more injury if you are pushing yourself so much. However, again, if you have a solid base, and pay attention to yourself, you can avoid injury.

I agree that is can be difficult trying to mix a triathlon and marathon training plan. I think that, as someone else posted, you end up with neither being maximized in MOST cases.
My suggestion is to choose which one is your focus and make sure you get the key workouts for that one. Use your "rest" or crosstraining to work for the other event.
For example, if you are training for the OLY as your main goal, you can extend your longest run of the week a little, or push a little harder. Even, potentially, trade out a day on the swim for another run. This will help you build the base, mileage and ability to take the abuse you get from a half or full marathon. 

Dave, AWESOME! That is fantastic! Congrats on making your goal, and exceeding it. 

I agree with above post. If you are following a plan, it should have guidelines about what zone to be in. That being said, I bet your AVERAGE for the run was Zone 2.
In addition, Zone 3 is where many of the physiological adaptations that you are looking for take place. The biggest "issue" I can think of for zone 3 is that it can take more out of you, and require more recovery time.
So, basically, I guess I am agreeing with the previous post. Follow your plan, and don't overthink it.
 

I had tried to join another mentor group but it seems like it is non-existent when I try to find it in the forums.  I noticed you are "full-ish"  Do you have room for one more?  If so, I will post my info.

Thanks!

My Plan really doesn't say a lot about HR training.  From the BT Plan:

Heart-Rate Training - Is it for you?

• If you are new to endurance sports or maybe have been out of it for at least a year, then I would recommend the following:
• Don't worry about it if you have no problems restraining yourself from going fast.  If you can maintain an easy conversation pace, not sweating or sweating a little, then there is a good chance that you are training appropriately and not pushing to hard.
• WORRY about it if you find yourself always pushing too fast, inconsistent pace, you tend to 'die' near the end, sweating buckets or exhausted after your workout.  Check out the articles at Measuring Your HR and Application.  There are several other common methods, lactate threshold being another.  Typically for your first year, for the Karvonen formula, stay in zone I.  Long Slow  =  50-70%MHR (% of max heart-rate) and II.  Endurance =  70-75%.  Mainly in the second zone though.  This could be an RPE of 3-4 in the modified RPE (Real Perceived Exertion) chart.
• Of course, if you have a years worth of base under you, then HR training will make you more competitive by training your body through the different zones throughout the week.  Essentially cycling volume with intensity.  This will increase your average pace as you will be doing tempo/threshold and interval HR training...HR rates above the endurance and recovery zones.  Typically you would train in zones above your endurance zone on your short and medium sessions while saving your long session for the lower endurance zone...an easy pace.  This method is called periodization training and lots of info can be found.

This being the case I think I will follow the advise from others above and just gradually build volume and make sure I can finish my run without being dead at the end.  Like I said I felt I had more in the tank today so I don't think I overdid it.  I plan on adding 10% a week for my volume growth, which is consistent with my plan.

I noticed some of you are silver members at BT.  Do you guys think it would be worthwhile for a true beginner to become a a paid member of the site.  I have come close to pulling the trigger a couple of times but haven't yet.

Just wondering what everybody's thoughts were on this.   

Randi,
We can fit one more! 

Charlie,
I like the more advanced plans, and have even imported my own. I don't think I have really taken advantage of the other benefits yet through.
Those two alone were why I joined in the first place. 

I've been waiting for the iApp to upgrade, but the release has been VERY slow in the making. I'm actually starting to think Marmadaddy is just yanking all of our chains.

I don't really follow plans (as mentioned before...) so I haven't upgraded yet. I would like to track planned vs. actual, so I will upgrade at some point. But for now I feel like I need to wait for them to put up or shut up about the app. I think the weather feature is cool! My friend is a silver member and I just read her weather since we live in the same area.

Great!  Thanks so much.  Here's me in a nutshell.


I would love to be part of your mentor group. 

I am 42 years old and was never physically active until about 3 years ago when I started on Weight Watchers.  I discovered how great exercise made me feel although I do still struggle with my weight no matter what I do.

I volunteered at a triathlon 3 years ago and decided that I could do that.  I have since completed 3 sprints and am already registered for my 4th and considering 2 more for this season.   Last season was one race since I was battling extreme fatigue, runner's knee, PF and problems with my shins cramping for the first mile or so when I run or walk very fast.  I am a definite BOP finisher.  Guess the advantage to that is there is no crowds to worry about on the bike or run - just me out there doing my thing.  It doesn't help matters that it seems I am ALWAYS in one of the last swim waves.

I am comfortable swimming and just bought a new road bike - LOVE it!.  Working on improving my swim and bike times.  Running is my nemesis.   During my first training season I had worked my way up to running for the 5k distance then started with runner's knee which struck before my first race.  Since then running has not been easy at all. I am working on speed walking - trying to get my 5k walk time to under 40 minutes if possible.   Right now I am at 2.5 miles in 45 minutes.  Got a way to go but feeling optimistic.  I would really like to finish my A Race in July in under 2 hrs.  Must seem really slow to some of you.

I have been married to my husband now for almost 20 years and we have two boys (13 and 9).   My commitment to triathlons got my husband to complete his first tri two summers ago with me and last year he did the bike portion as a relay.  My older son competed in a kids' tri last summer.  My younger son only learned to ride his bike last year and now looks forward to completing his first kids tri this year.  As you can see, it is a family affair for us.  We also do triathlons to raise money for Ryan's Quest, a local non-profit raising money to find a cure for Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy.  Ryan is a 4 year old local boy who was diagnosed with it at 2.  We have become good friends with the family.  

I look forward to being a part of your group. I have lots to learn but also lots to share.

I have always either been a Gold or Silver member on BT from the very start. I like the training plans and the ability to modify or import my own.  I think for what they charge, it is definitely a good value.

When I first started, I went with the gold for access to the trainer's forum.  I started between mentor sessions so I did not have much of an option.

Welcome Randi!

I am a Silver member for a couple of reasons: 1)  I really like the additional access to more training plans - it has given me a choice of which plan to follow that most suites my individual needs but more importantly 2) I use this site each and every day. I log my workouts, use the PM features, read all the articles, lurk on the forums. It has given me a great resource and a true love for triathlon. I feel that the least I could do for the amount of benefit I get from this site is pony up some $$ to help the folks that are running the site.

Eli - how was the 150m ride? They have a few events up here that are similar. Haven't gotten my crap together enough to do them - but many moons ago, I rode the California AIDS ride (SF to LA in 7 days) and that was a blast.

I had a much less eventful weekend that I had hoped - it SNOWED! Holy moly. I had taken the bike off the trainer a couple of weeks ago and had to put it back on. Let's hope that's it for this nonsense for the rest of the year. It's really hard explaining to your kids why they can't wear flip flops and shorts when they were wearing them just a couple of days ago.

Have a great week all!

Thanks Jennifer and thanks for the inspire.  I just wish that I knew why I got the shin cramping.  I REALLY want to run.  I had  a brief taste of it before the runner's knee and really liked it.  Now, I would just be happy to walk briskly without the cramping. 

Wow, snow!  It got cold here in NJ over the weekend so I played couch potato.  I had really wanted to get out and ride but just could not bring myself to do that in the cold wind.

Welcome Randi.  I don't have much experience with the shin issues you are talking about, but have you tried run/walk protocol?  Maybe start with 1 minute run, 4 minutes walk, or something and see how it feels.

Don't worry about being "slow".  I'm trying to practice what I preach, but we all have to remember this journey is really against what our limits might be, not against others.  Slow and fast are really only relative anyway - I'm slower in all three disciplines than the people I hang out with and discuss training ideas with, so does that make me slow?  Maybe, but I'm not stopping because I'm slow!  It depends who you compare yourself with.  You're faster than the 299 million Americans who don't even line up to start a triathlon!  And if you have to do aquabike events, do that.  And if you come up to New England I'll do the run portion of a relay if you want. 

I guess I'm just saying stay with it no matter what and be proud you're on the path.  No offense meant to any speedsters on here, but stories like yours are honestly more inspiring to me than reading about an ex-college track star who runs 2:50 marathons and is working to lower that to a 2:45.   Maybe because I can't relate at all to people like that!

And in case everyone didn't notice - I warned my winter group about this.  I have a job where I'm online all day and I get a lot of little open windows of time, so I probably post too much.  And I know just enough to be dangerous. 

So take everything I say with a grain (or a full bag) of salt.  And I was brought it up a big Italian family so I have thick skin, so if I get on your nerves let me know and I'll try to ease up.

I am with you on that one!  I am way more inspired and up-lifted by the person who trains (bike, run, swim) for an hour for the first time than the guy trying to cut 5 min. off of his marathon time.  Keep after it, and you will have success.

Dave.

Don't sell yourself short. That's what a mentor group is all about! We need to keep up the chatter and share some ideas. It doesn't work without participation.

So who else deals with black toenails? I have two that are just about ready to fall off AGAIN. Always on my left foot. I am so sick of having creepy looking feet.

Randi,
Great to have you with us.
Congrats on making the choice to have some fun in your fitness!
 
Running is tough on the body. No doubt about it. My wife used to get cramps in her shins. She found that making sure she warmed up by pointing and flexing her feet seemed to help.
Also, we started off doing run/walking for her, and that helped as well.
Actually, we run/walk a lot of our races.
 

I should not have complained about two black toenails before! After my run tonight, I now have six. All four on my left (minus the big toe) and the outer two on my right. My shoes desperately need to be replaced, but they are not too tight in the toebox. In fact, they are a men's style shoe in order to give me a bit of extra width and avoid this recurring problem. My search continues...

Jenna,
My wife used to get black toe nails a lot.
She started to tape them, and that seemed to help. Also, we read that  it could be cause by having tight calves that caused the toes to hit the top of the shoe box.
Maybe try some calve stretches??
She hasn't had a new on in a few years.