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Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED (Page 3)
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 2010-04-10 7:41 PM in reply to: #2782670 |
Expert  1384    Charlottesville, Virginia |  Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSEDExperior - 2010-04-10 8:36 PM Alright everyone, please pardon this, but I'm really very chuffed. I pulled off AG win, and 2nd overall masters division (10th overall) in my race today. As you were... Holy Smackeral Tri-Man... that is one impressive run! And after the bike... okay... you are now at hero status with Phil. Well done Michael... congrats! |
| 2010-04-10 7:56 PM in reply to: #2782670 |
Extreme Veteran 334 Oshawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Experior - 2010-04-10 8:36 PM Alright everyone, please pardon this, but I'm really very chuffed. I pulled off AG win, and 2nd overall masters division (10th overall) in my race today. As you were... This is the kind of stuff that makes you a great Mentor/Coach. You not only provide great feedback and guidance, but also put it to practice with amazing results! Congrats on your placing! Sylvain Curious to know how well you would have done if this was an A race. |
| 2010-04-10 9:21 PM in reply to: #2782670 |
Expert 1276 Salem | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Experior - 2010-04-10 5:36 PM Alright everyone, please pardon this, but I'm really very chuffed. I pulled off AG win, and 2nd overall masters division (10th overall) in my race today. As you were... Way to go BOSS . Very proud of you. : ) Explain the word CHUFFED (First time of have heard of it). I don't know how you run that darn fast for so long. I can barely an hold 8:00 mile pace. |
| 2010-04-11 8:04 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Extreme Veteran 373 | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED |
| 2010-04-11 8:50 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael-great race! Good morning all. Lots of yard work yesterday but was able to get a swim in. More of the same today. Swim today should put me over 16k yards for the week-thats both good and bad. Wish there was some run and bike but trying to give my right leg some rest to get over hamstring issue. Will likely mix in some light biking next week and hopefully gradually work back into some running in the next couple of weeks. Frustrating. On a happy note-looks like we will need a new heating/air unit (heat pump?) here at the house. Anybody know anything about this stuff? Current unit is 13 years old so we were due. Looks like we will be spending some $$$$ to stay cool down here in Alabama. Fortunately, lots of cool nights for the next week. Randy |
| 2010-04-11 9:40 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Veteran 239 DC | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael, you are an ANIMAL!!!!! Sylvain, glad to hear you got a bike. I think a 56cm will be a much better fit...have fun riding it. |
| 2010-04-11 9:59 AM in reply to: #2783126 |
Expert 1276 Salem | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED slornow - 2010-04-11 6:50 AM Michael-great race! Good morning all. Lots of yard work yesterday but was able to get a swim in. More of the same today. Swim today should put me over 16k yards for the week-thats both good and bad. Wish there was some run and bike but trying to give my right leg some rest to get over hamstring issue. Will likely mix in some light biking next week and hopefully gradually work back into some running in the next couple of weeks. Frustrating. On a happy note-looks like we will need a new heating/air unit (heat pump?) here at the house. Anybody know anything about this stuff? Current unit is 13 years old so we were due. Looks like we will be spending some $$$$ to stay cool down here in Alabama. Fortunately, lots of cool nights for the next week. Randy Randy, We had ours replaced about 5-6 years ago. Don't be surprised if the unit you get is much smaller. They should be considering the sq. footage of the hourse you live in the number of windows you have, among other factors in order to get a unit that is efficient as possible. My 2 cents. |
| 2010-04-11 11:35 AM in reply to: #2782844 |
Champion 7595  Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED TriGuyBri - 2010-04-10 10:21 PM Experior - 2010-04-10 5:36 PM Alright everyone, please pardon this, but I'm really very chuffed. I pulled off AG win, and 2nd overall masters division (10th overall) in my race today. As you were... Way to go BOSS . Very proud of you. : ) Explain the word CHUFFED (First time of have heard of it). I don't know how you run that darn fast for so long. I can barely an hold 8:00 mile pace. Chuffed -- that's British English. Sorry -- I've lived in England on and off for several years and sometimes British-isms get into my talk. It means something like 'very pleased', but also involves the idea of 'visibly beaming with happiness' or something like that. I think it comes from a much earlier word that means more like 'puffed up, fatty', but I'm not sure. |
| 2010-04-11 11:38 AM in reply to: #2783091 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED microspawn - 2010-04-11 9:04 AM Michael - Great race! What is your half PR - I mean without the 2 hour bike ride? Lol. That's it. I've run (well, finished) exactly two standalone half marathons. (I started one last fall and might have just broken 90 minutes (might have) but I got tripped around mile 10-11 and had to stop.) |
| 2010-04-11 11:42 AM in reply to: #2783126 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED slornow - 2010-04-11 9:50 AM Michael-great race! Good morning all. Lots of yard work yesterday but was able to get a swim in. More of the same today. Swim today should put me over 16k yards for the week-thats both good and bad. Wish there was some run and bike but trying to give my right leg some rest to get over hamstring issue. Will likely mix in some light biking next week and hopefully gradually work back into some running in the next couple of weeks. Frustrating. On a happy note-looks like we will need a new heating/air unit (heat pump?) here at the house. Anybody know anything about this stuff? Current unit is 13 years old so we were due. Looks like we will be spending some $$$$ to stay cool down here in Alabama. Fortunately, lots of cool nights for the next week. Randy Thanks Randy! 16K is pretty good! Not many triathletes swim that much. You and Hedi need to compare notes on aqua-running... Our A/C unit went out last summer. The duct-work is also a mess. Replacing the whole thing was just out of the question at the time (and probably will remain so until my wife is finished training and starts working for dough). I bought a window unit for the main part of the house, and otherwise we've just learned to live with the heat. We'll eventually get it replaced, but not any time soon. |
| 2010-04-11 6:58 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Oops. I promised the table of everybody the other day then forgot. Here it is: Summer Training Group
I also promised something about periodization. Coming up in a few minutes.... Edited by Experior 2010-04-11 7:00 PM |
| 2010-04-11 8:08 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED OK, periodization. There is a load of material out there on this with differing views, especially on the finer points. If you want to spend hours reading stuff, Google Scholar is your friend here. (I confess that this is what I do in my spare time. Yes, I'm a geek...) I'll keep it simple because, frankly, I think that for athletes at our level, it is simple. We're not trying to eke out that last second per mile in the run, or tenth of a second per hundred in the swim. (At least, I'm not!) So getting our peak exactly right to the umpteenth decimal place is not the issue. The issue is overall structuring our training so that we make the most of our limited time to train and show up at our 'A' races ready to roll. Finally, I'll say that I'm leaving IM training out of the picture. Things are different there. So, in the interest of keeping it simple, let's break training down into three categories: Aerobic, Lactate Threshold (LT), and VO2max. The boundaries between these categories are blurry -- pretty much everything we do as endurance athletes has an aerobic component to it, for example. (Only the briefest of efforts doesn't.) But roughly, we can say that aerobic efforts are z1 and z2. In running, this means something like 2:00 slower than your current 5k race pace. 'Conversational'. You can get away with putting some z3 running into this category, but not much, or you will end up sacrificing time and distance (which are crucial here) for speed, or injury for both. LT is basically the effort that you can sustain for 60 minutes, or z4. You can estimate it using tests (maybe the subject of a later post -- ask about that if you're interested) or use race results that fall in the vicinity of an hour. LT training is typically done as long intervals (like maybe 5-10 minute intervals at first, building to maybe 20 minutes, with 1-5 minutes break between intervals.) Finally, there is VO2max, which is z5, or the effort you can maintain for somewhere in the vicinity of 10 minutes. These are definitely done as intervals, of anywhere from 30s to 5 minutes, usually with roughly equal rest. In addition to these, there is 'speedwork', which is fun, can easily lead to injury, and is not very important for long races, though I confess to doing it from time to time because, as I said, it's fun! OK, so let's summarize:
Now, about periodization. The basic idea here is very simple: Early in the season, you focus on aerobic training, gradually building it. Then you add in LT, gradually building it, while continuing to build aerobic training. Then 1-2 months before your 'A' race, you introduce VO2 max training. When you do, you level off your Aerobic and LT training, while gradually increasing VO2 max training. About 1 month prior to your 'A' race, you continue to increase VO2 max training, but at a lower rate (you are nearing the point of total breakdown here!) and you DECREASE (slightly) your LT and Aerobic training. This condition cannot be maintained for long. That's why you wait until 1-2 months prior to your 'A' race to do much appreciable (if any) VO2 max training. You will soon plateau, and then begin to decline. The theory behind periodization is pretty straightforward. Aerobic training can be maintained for longer periods (basically indefinitely) without huge risk of injury. And the benefits of aerobic training are long-term, but they also require a long time (months if not years) to establish. LT training can be maintained for longish periods of time (months) without serious risk of injury. The benefits last for a longish time, but also take many week to a few months to begin to show up. (Maximizing LT as a percentage of VO2 max can take years but you can make substantial gains in weeks to months.) VO2 max training cannot be maintained for long (a few months at most) before your body begins to rebel. But the benefits show up very quickly (weeks). Put that all together and periodization makes sense. To summarize:
There are other approaches. One recently popular approach is called 'reverse periodization', and is perhaps especially applicable to IM training. I'll leave it at that, though. Edited by Experior 2010-04-11 8:10 PM |
| 2010-04-11 8:21 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Extreme Veteran 399 St. Louis | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael, way to go on another 1st place AG finish! YOU ARE A BEAST! They say hang around the people you want to be like. You certainly are a mentor that leads by example! Edited by StlPhil 2010-04-11 8:24 PM |
| 2010-04-11 8:39 PM in reply to: #2784086 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED StlPhil - 2010-04-11 9:21 PM Michael, way to go on another 1st place AG finish! YOU ARE A BEAST! They say hang around the people you want to be like. You certainly are a mentor that leads by example! Way to go! That was your first race, no? That's fantastic. Makes me smile. It's tough to get caught off guard by hills, but it sounds like you handled it well. Take it as it comes, don't panic, and don't get down on yourself. Hills are hills and they are hard. As for feeling bad, yes, it sounds like a (minor) nutrition issue. It sounds like the heat caught you off guard along with the hills. Nutrition is a tricky thing, and it takes time to figure it out. You just solved that little piece of the nutrition puzzle -- take in a bit more electrolyte (not a LOT, just a little) for a race of 2:30+ in that much heat. There will be other nutrition puzzles to sort out... (As they say, it's the 4th discipline of triathlon.) Congratulations! |
| 2010-04-11 11:18 PM in reply to: #2784086 |
Expert 1276 Salem | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED StlPhil - 2010-04-11 6:21 PM Michael, way to go on another 1st place AG finish! YOU ARE A BEAST! They say hang around the people you want to be like. You certainly are a mentor that leads by example! Hey Phil, Great race! Way to hang in there and get'er done. You certainly learn a lot about one self in races like that. I guess you have to go through those things. Guess what? Your next race you get to PR AGAIN!!! Way to go!!! Brian |
| 2010-04-11 11:32 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Expert 1276 Salem | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Busy last couple of days; 2 hr bike ride on Saturday with strong head winds on the way out; Long run (for me anyway) 8.5 miles this early afternoon and then a 2200 swim workout this evening. Looking forward to a day off tomorrow. I have a Sprint Tri this upcoming Sunday about 20 miles away with a Pool Swim. Haven't had the pleasure of a pool swim, but it should be OK; need to bring my patience. I purchased a Zoot Tri-suit three weeks ago so I didn't have to pull on a shirt after the swim. Looking forward to see how far I've come and hopefully a PR. I hope I am doing the right training this week. I moved to my week 12 workout (I would be starting week 10) and will use that training schedule as it ends with a Sprint Tri as the Sunday workout. Should be fine, but if anyone wants to take a look at my planned training for this upcomng week I'd like some input. |
| 2010-04-12 6:25 AM in reply to: #2784365 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED TriGuyBri - 2010-04-12 12:32 AM I hope I am doing the right training this week. I moved to my week 12 workout (I would be starting week 10) and will use that training schedule as it ends with a Sprint Tri as the Sunday workout. Should be fine, but if anyone wants to take a look at my planned training for this upcoming week I'd like some input. That looks fine to me, Brian. It's well in line with your earlier training, and should leave you feeling good for the race on Sunday. Pool swim: be prepared for bunching up at the walls. Assuming it is a TT start with self-reported swim times, here's my prediction: you will find people ahead of you who apparently reported some pretty unrealistic times; you will get caught behind them; you will pass one of them only to get caught behind another one of them; you will have trouble turning at the walls because people will be hanging on, turning in weird ways, not sure what to do. I hope my prediction is wrong, but it isn't.  Just try to stay calm and not get frustrated. And have a great time! Racing is a blast! |
| 2010-04-12 6:34 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED So what has everybody got going on this week? I'm still not fully recovered from racing, so job #1 for me is to get recovered while still getting my training in. That means volume, but little to no intensity for a few days. Then this Friday I've got a huge race rehearsal brick that frankly has me a little nervous. That might sound a little weird to be nervous about a workout, but it happens to me sometimes, especially when I know that the workout is going to hurt. A lot. We know Brian is preparing for his first race of the season (well, apart from a very nice 10K he did last January). Others? |
| 2010-04-12 7:28 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Great job in the race Phil! And the best part is the picture of you smiling at the end :-) Took me 3 shots before I finally figured out a successful strategy in the 10 mile run (I too, always died at the end). 'Tis a great start to your season though... on to Tri now, right? Good luck in the race this weekend Brian. X2 on Michael's swim comments. I thought I'd prefer pool swims, but I hate them. I've never come even close to my training times in the 300 because of congestion. And on top of that, since it is my strong leg (relative to others), it hurts my overall performance because it is short. So, just relax and save it for the bike (that's my motto anyway). And don't go out the first lap at breakneck speed, nice and smooth. My first tri (a sprint) is in two weeks (also a pool swim). I'm hoping to build my bike training up alot over the next two weeks to keep the HIM option open (still 27 spots left... people seem to be dropping out now). If the sprint really feels like a sprint (e.g. like the training run it is supposed to be), then I'm going to go for the HIM. Picking up a new helmet this week and shopping for clipless pedals / shoes. I need all the help I can get on the bike :-) This weekend I'm probably going to do a 5K. Dumb thing for training purposes, but my father-in-law hasn't raced in about 6 months due to knee issues, so I'm looking forward to being in a race with him. He's almost 78 and until the knee issues, routinely won his age group (70+) for local races... unfortunately for him, there's a new "kid" in town... a super fast 70 year old... lol! Anyway, I want to take a stab at breaking 25, and though this isn't the easiest course, I'm looking forward to giving it a shot. After the race, I'll just run another 3 or 4 miles and use it all as a training run. Stu |
| 2010-04-12 7:33 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Oh, almost forgot... I'm also very willing to do the goal chart thing again with this group if people are interested. Training always seems easier with good weather and race season, so motivation isn't as much of an issue for me, but that darn chart did keep me honest several times over the winter. James, Mike and Randy, the basic idea was to set one or two public goals at the beginning of each month and then track our progress each week on the board. We started with weight, but quickly expanded to other training objectives. You can take a look in the Experior Group winter board for the basic idea. Anyway, let me know what you all think. -Stu |
| 2010-04-12 10:53 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Veteran 239 DC | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael, thanks for the informative post on periodization. I really enjoy and appreciate your 'technical' posts, and I'm all ears for anything you've got on testing oneself to find LT and V02 levels. Phil, well done on your half marathon...hills can be brutal, especially if you don't regularly run on them. Way to persevere. As for this week, I'm nursing some shin splints and will probably stick to the pool and the elliptical trainer. I still don't understand how I came down with this injury (I had been training with restraint)...that aspect of it is more frustrating than the forced stoppage in training. I have a sprint in two weeks and I'm going to do it one way or another (even if I have to walk the 5k). Stu, I am up for another go at the group goals...especially the weight loss component. Have fun next weekend at the 5K, and good luck to your father in-law. I hope I'm crushing the competition when I'm 78. I hope everyone has a great start to their week. -Mike |
| 2010-04-12 12:43 PM in reply to: #2783302 |
Regular 53 | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Chuffed -- that's British English. Sorry -- I've lived in England on and off for several years and sometimes British-isms get into my talk. It means something like 'very pleased', but also involves the idea of 'visibly beaming with happiness' or something like that. I think it comes from a much earlier word that means more like 'puffed up, fatty', but I'm not sure. Michael, you are the bees-knees! (Sorry, I couldn't resist myself...) Congratulations and great job! My first race is coming up in 2 weeks; it's a local 5-k warmup for my first sprint on 5/9. My knees are back to 100%, so I am ramping up my volume and I have caught up to my training plan. As long as my week-long taper (I'm taking the kids to CA next week - disney, SD zoo, etc...) doesn't put me too far back, I should be meet my goal of finishing both with a smile and not in last place for my AG. - Mark |
| 2010-04-12 8:55 PM in reply to: #2784566 |
Extreme Veteran 399 St. Louis | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED juneapple - 2010-04-12 7:28 AM Great job in the race Phil! And the best part is the picture of you smiling at the end :-) Took me 3 shots before I finally figured out a successful strategy in the 10 mile run (I too, always died at the end). 'Tis a great start to your season though... on to Tri now, right? Stu, A sprint is my next goal. I have been so focused on the 1/2 and running I've let the swimming slip. I going to get back to the pool this week. Make sure you hold me to it! There are a couple of sprints in the area coming up. I just need to commit to one. I think my wife is glad the 1/2 is over now I can cut back on the training. ; ) As Bush Senior said "Not goin to happen." Phil |
| 2010-04-12 8:59 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Extreme Veteran 399 St. Louis | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael, Now that the 1/2 is over I want to cut back on the running a bit and focus more on the bike and the swim. However, I don't want to lose the 1/2 conditioning. How much running do I have to put in per week to maintain the the fitness level I currently have? Phil Edited by StlPhil 2010-04-12 9:04 PM |
| 2010-04-13 5:42 AM in reply to: #2786906 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED StlPhil - 2010-04-12 9:55 PM juneapple - 2010-04-12 7:28 AM Great job in the race Phil! And the best part is the picture of you smiling at the end :-) Took me 3 shots before I finally figured out a successful strategy in the 10 mile run (I too, always died at the end). 'Tis a great start to your season though... on to Tri now, right? Stu, A sprint is my next goal. I have been so focused on the 1/2 and running I've let the swimming slip. I going to get back to the pool this week. Make sure you hold me to it! There are a couple of sprints in the area coming up. I just need to commit to one. I think my wife is glad the 1/2 is over now I can cut back on the training. ; ) As Bush Senior said "Not goin to happen." Phil Your feet and knees will appreciate a little bit of a change in the line-up. Okay, I'll hold you to the swim, if you hold me to the bike. Or maybe tie me to it. Our wives can commiserate. Between the college tour and my training, things are starting to look pretty shabby around here... shhhhh... maybe no one will notice. |
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