Meulen's 'Let's tri this Thing!' beginner mentor group-CLOSED (Page 3)

Brian,  I am planning on doing an Olympic Tri.  The training schedules for the Olympic are somewhat close to what I have been doing for months.  I also have read some books on triathilons and have seen the plans in there.   My life, like yours, is stressfull and busy.  Some days I have more time than others.  I am currently trying to train each sport 2x per week.  One long day and one fast day.  On the long days, I try and pace myself so I can go farther.  On my fast days, I might only have 1 hour or even 1/2 hour.  I try to use that time to go as fast as I can.  I try not to string too many long days in a row. Some days I might do long bike and short run or similar.  Also I listen to my body and if I am overly tired, I adjust my plan for the day to something less.  On my fourth week of each month, I tone it back a bit and while I still exercise, I do it at an easier pace so that I can recover. I am incorporating kettle bell workouts in with the training to build stronger muscles.  Is it okay not to follow a plan as long as I feel I am progressing?   I also noticed that none of the workout plans that I have looked at actually have you attempting triathilon distances before the actual race. So the first day that you actually string it all together at those distances is the actual race days.  Is there a reason for that?   Thanks, Dale

Dale,

these are both great questions!!! In my mentor group we did a Question of the Day (QOTD) anyone could start it, but it kept good discussion going. So lets do that and use this as our first QOTD. Even thought technically this is 2 questions.

QOTD 1. How many days per week do you train each discipline and why?
The answer is: It depends....... . It depends on your goals, what phase of your plan you are in or what discipline you are focussing on improving, and depends on what discipline we are talking about. If you are trainin 2x per week in each discipline I would say that is maintenance mode. As a beginner you will see some gains for this and you can certainly train to "finish" an Olympic tri on 2x per week per discipline. Personally, I think, in order to be improving at a discipline you need 3x per week. I also think it's risky to run only 2x per week and do much more distance than 5k's. You won't be getting frequent workouts or consistency enough to safely build mileage and adapt your body to bigger distances. 3-4 days per week running is much more preffered. Swimming is more technique and muscle memory. Studies have shown you need 3-4x per week to improve on that.

QOTD 2. Why don't plans call for all 3 sports on one day? You'll find some differences of opinion here, but this is my answer. First, doing all 3 is brutal! It takes too much to recover from doing that. That's why we take a few days off after a race. Second, is efficiency of training. These plans are designed so you improve in each discipline. That calls for you to spend enough time and effort to tire yourself out so the recovery gives you gains in each discipline. If you over do it by beating up your body in another discipline after that too soon you're jepordizing your recovery. This really makes doing all 3 at once "not necessary" unless your in a race.

Since it's kinda quiet in I'm going to open the group up and see if some more peeps want to join.

Hello, I would like to ask if I may join your group.  I am a 37 yer old male and married with two kids.  Two years ago I broke my foot in a student-teacher basketball game because I was overweight.  I had to have surgery and couldn't walk on it for 3 months.  As soon as it was healed I began working out and lost 50 pounds.  Last summer I finished a sprint triathlon, and now I am training for an international distance tri in July.  I would like to continue with this sport and add to my distances every year.  Recently, my biggest problem has been dealing with some shin splints, which has hampered my training.  I would like to get these injuries behind me because it is easy to get frustrated when I can't train to my fullest.  I have been on this site before, but I am new to these groups.

Brian,  
 
I am learning a lot from you already,  The reason that I have been trying to only practice each sport 2x per week is that I felt I needed more recovery time from the exercise.  I can run and really push myself but I can only seem to do it twice a week.  I can run short distances every day but to really push it, it seems to take me 2 to 3 days to recover my legs from a long  hard run.   However, I can be sore from running and still train bike or swim.  How do I incorporate running more than 2 times per week when I am still sore from the last one?  How do I train each discipline more than 2 times per week when my workout week is already 6 days.  Should I always combine at least 2 disiplines per workout?  If so I don't thing I would be able to go as far or as hard with each individual sport.   Wouldn't that make my gowth in the sport less?  It is confusing to train for three different sports at the same time.  In regards to question 2.  If you don't train all three in one day,  How do I finish the race?  What I mean is that if I train my body to be able to handle a 25 mile bike ride and a 6 mile run in one day, will I be able to add the additional sport of swimming on the race day.  Maybe the race day is your hardest day of the cycle.  I would think that you would want to train harder than the race so that when the race day came, it would be somewhat easy?  This might sound stupid to you but truly this triathilon idea is new to me.   I am used to training as hard as I can each time regardless of what it is.  Thanks for taking the time and answering my questions.  I really appreciate your knowledge and expertise.  Dale.

Brian,

Just curious about recovery.  How much recovery should I take and how should I take it?  If I am cycling or riding once a day for less than an hour should I let my body tell me?  If I feel good can I do this everyday?  My new pool membership starts in 3 weeks (after construction) so I will be working that in to my schedule as well but basically I have been cycling or riding daily and one of the weekend days been fitting in two workouts but less than an hour and a half total.  Thanks in advance.

welcome!

You and I have a lot in common. Do you have a run plan? Do you know how to safely build your mileage?

People have different tolerances for this. If you're getting hurt running we should make sure you are being really conservative on building your miles. Let me know if you have questions on this!

Dale, there is no stupid question. How I'm going to answer this mostly applies to Olympic and sprint distance tri's. HIM's and IM's are a whole nother ball game where you are training your body to "make it through" to a point.

In your training you are training more than the distance of the tri. When I did my first sprint tri I was swimming 2000m per swim to train for a 400m swim in the race. My training bike rides were anywhere from 20-75 mile rides, and my run's were anywhere from 3-8 miles. Almost all of my training for the individual event was more than what the race was going to be. You should do some doubles and definitely some brick workouts to ready your body for that feeling of running off of the bike, but it's ok to do 1 or 2 training disciplines per day. Come race day a 400m swim will feel easy if you've been doing 2000m of drills and intervals on one day. You will be fresh enough to jump on the bike and do 12 miles easy and then a 5k. If you start training all 3 in a day too much, especially hard it will be too hard to recover and get enough "quality workouts in. Races are NEVER easy efforts. If it's easy you need to go harder!!

Running: I have a feeling you're running too hard. You should be running mostly easy and seldom hard. Frequency is key here. It doesn't seem like this will get you results, but trust me it will!! Better yet it will get you results sans injury! I'm going to show you the first few weeks of the marathon plan I'm doing it will give you an idea of pace/frequency/volume that gets safe results.

week 1
3 miles easy
5 miles at race pace
3 miles easy
8 miles easy

week 2
3 miles easy
5 miles easy
2 miles easy
9 miles easy

week 3
3 miles easy
5 miles pace
3 miles easy
6 miles easy

week 4
3 miles easy
6 miles pace
3 miles easy
11 miles easy

Notice how many easy runs there are. I went to a Mcmillan calculator to figure out my target marathon pace given the pace of my last race, which was 6:30 miles for 4 miles. So my race pace is 7:30. In those 4 weeks there are only 3 runs out of 16 I'm at race pace!!! The rest are easy runs at 45-90 seconds per mile slower than race pace. If you look at my logs you'll notice I also do proper warm-ups and cool downs so overall paces for my runs are very low compared to my race pace's. In training you need to recover and run often. After a race you can take some time off so you can go harder in that race.

The point of all this is that out of 16 runs only 3 of them should be runs that you might need more than overnight to recover from. You can guage this by heart rate if you want to or have trouble with the RPE method.

Rich,

By all means listen to your body. However, recovery doesn't have to mean sit on the couch and play xbox and drink beer (although I am a fan of that type of recovery! ) You can always hop on the bike for an EASY 30-40 min ride and flush out the lactic acid. Swimming is a good recovery since it's low impact. After you've been running a while a short EASY 3 mile run will even be good recovery. For you, you're probably going to want to spend more time on the bike a few days a week vs. short periods every day. You'll get more benefit from doing this. You'll build the biking endurance and have time for the other sports. Don't feel like you have to go all out all the time.

About doing 2 workouts: It doesn't always have to be a brick where you jump off the bike and run in the same time. You can do one in the morning and one at night with a rest in between. When I start gearing up for the season again, you'll start seeing me run around 3pm after work then go home eat dinner and swim around 8pm. It's mostly about time management. We are trying to fit a lot of training in minimal amounts of time slots. It ain't easy!

QOTD: What do you want out of the mentor group, what are your 2011 goals?


Mine:
I'd like have fun, make some new friends, and help some of you guys make a plan and stick with this!! I'd also like to make sure you guys get the info you need to stay safe, healthy, and be successful in this sport.

My 2011 goals
1. weigh around 160
2. run the April marathon under 4 hours
3. average over 20mph on the bike in my HIM and have enough left for the run
4. Podium a race in my age group

I would like support of other like-minded people. All tips and support from people who are more experienced and/or going through the same thing is helpful for me. Making friends of triathletes (or future triathletes) is important to me because it's these people who really understand what you go through.

My goals for 2011= To complete my first sprint triathlon this summer and possibly do a second triathlon near the end of summer. To continue working on staying in the present and working on improving balance in my life with family, work, and training.

I want to be competitive in my age group in sprints and olympic distances and FINISH the Savageman Half with a smile on my face so I can enjoy it all.

I also would like to drop weight to below 200 pounds and maintain it below there.

Hey everyone,

when you guys respond to inspires make sure you reply to the other persons blog. If you just respond in your blog they have no idea you responded.

this is confusing!

LOL....

If you hit the "reply" button next to the persons inspire it will get posted back on that persons blog and that persons user page will show an inspire indication. If you just type your reply in the add a comment box the reply only gets written to your blog. That person won't see it unless he/she goes back to your blog and looks for it.

As for what I am looking for in this mentor program.   I guess besides advice,  I just like knowing that there are other people out there that are new at this.  I like to hear their questions as well because sometimes I hadn't even thought of them.  I like to see that others struggle as much as I do.  It helps to not feel alone in this sport.  So far everyone seems great. 

Brian,
   I do have a lot of running issues to ask you about, but I wanted to ask you about bikes.  Last year I rode a very old mountain bike for my first sprint tri.  Going for an international distance tri, I know that I need to get a road bike.  With two kids, I am on a limited budget of around $500.  Any suggestions on how to approach this?  I have  tentative long term plan of moving up to a HIM and someday an IM.  Obviously, I will not be riding a $500 bike in an IM, but I would prefer to get something that I could ride for a couple of years through a HIM.  Thanks for any input

Edited by mcommend 2011-01-07 8:10 PM

Dale,

speed will come on the bike and the run with patience and dedication. I take computrainer classes at a local tri club. They say all the time that new athletes constantly have a tendancy to make too big of gains too fast. Eventually, they end up hurting the process overtraining or hurt. I don't think your running too slow at all. Running gains don't from running fast all the time like most people think. You will see steady progress in running if you run more frequently and build miles, occassionally throwing in a fast run, interval run, or hill drill run.

If your training with a Heart Rate moniter you need to find out your max either by testing or by using a max HR calculater. Then calculate your zones. Mostly you'll run in zone 1 and 2. Occasionally, you can run in 3,4,5. It be even better yet you can get your lactate threshold tested or do the field test and train with that. Here's a link to some great info on lactate threshold on this site and the field test if you want it. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=...

This stuff is all expensive and requires a lot of research and time to learn how to train by it. To make it real easy I'd say just run at an easy jog (and I mean easy jog-you should be able to talk fine) most of the time. You can check out some of the plans on that Hal Higdon site I linked earlier too. They explain alot about how you should be running and how much to keep it safe. If you need to check you HR calculate your max and zones and figure out what zones you are running in. I don't want to make this too complicated for you right now. Being your just starting your going to see awesome gains if you just keep up with the S/B/R'ing!!!

spending money on bikes is my specialty!!!

First off, we need to find what kind of bike you are actually going to want. If you're going to do any kind of group riding I'd suggest you make this bike a road bike. Especially, since you'll be buying another one later for HIM or IM. Secondly, It's important the bike is going to fit you properly. A bike fit usually runs around $100-$150. Some people have also had some luck with online fitting instructions. Personally, I did this and ended up buying too small of a bike. I measured everything right, but I have a body type that's short torso long legs. That made fitting by numbers pretty difficult. Lastly, with a $500 budget I'd be looking used. Try to find something on craigslist or ebay that fits your fitting measurements. Try to pick up a bike with shimano 105 components equivilient or above if you can. The lower end components tend to not hold up to the mileage we put on our bikes and go out of tune a lot. You want to ride your new bike not be working on it all the time. As you go through the process keep me up to date on things. I'll be happy to help. I ended up picking up my first road bike on craigslist. It has Campy Veloce components and an aluminum frame with carbon fork and seat stays. I spent $750 for it and it will be going on it's 3rd season next year. It's my go to bike, I ride it a lot!! Don't be overly concerned about brands. Most bikes are coming from the same 3 factories in China anyhow. Again, don't hesitate to shoot me a pm and check something out for you.

Ok....... I've been watching you guys for a week and you're doing great. I'm impressed by the dedication you guys have shown. Keep updating those logs and keep up the good work! I'm especially impressed by how you guys are leaving inspires for each other. That just helps sooooo much when someone leaves a little note of encouragement.

A couple of notes:
1 make sure you guys at least look at some of the free plans here. They are designed to get you ready for your race and keep you injury free. It works really well to take those plans and modify them a little fit your needs.

2. Especially watch your running. I don't want to see any injuries!

3 make sure some of you guys taking spin classes are using your tension and paying attention to cadence. Prefferanly you get outside every once in a while or on a trainer.

4. Don't be afraid to ask if you have questions

I have a question regarding spin class. I usually take 3 classes a week---2 are 1 hour and on saturdays I take a 2 hour class. The instructors at my gym are all cyclists so they focus on simulating "real riding" instead of the "jumps" and things that some spin teachers use. I live in Pittsburgh and it is just so cold here it's hard for me to get outside to ride. My question is, how much more beneficial is a trainer than a spin class? I've been considering buying one but the problem is they are just so expensive and I like going to spin class with people instead of training alone in my living room. Do you think it makes enough of a difference that I should start saving up to buy one? Thanks!

Spin classes are certainly better than nothing. They are great cardio workouts and if you have teachers that are gearing it towards outside riding that's even better. I go to a class every once in a while taught by one of my roadie buddies. His class is pretty good. If I spend a winter at spin class i don't have the kind of gains I have on a trainer or in computrainer classes. You could still see some results from a winter of spin. Especially if there is some weight loss involved. But then you have to wonder if the gains are from the weight loss or spin.

You don't HAVE to do anything really. It just depends on what you want to accomplish, your budget, and your preference. I know it sucks in the cold. I'm in Chicagoland and haven't been outside either. I did 9.5 miles running on a treadmill this morning because it was 7 degrees when I got up this morning! Just do your best. If you fnd you have a budget for a trainer and want to see some bigger gains later you can re-consider.

Spin classes are certainly better than nothing. They are great cardio workouts and if you have teachers that are gearing it towards outside riding that's even better. I go to a class every once in a while taught by one of my roadie buddies. His class is pretty good. If I spend a winter at spin class i don't have the kind of gains I have on a trainer or in computrainer classes. But bare in mind i'm training with power not just randomly riding a trainer. You could still see some results from a winter of spin. Especially if there is some weight loss involved. But then you have to wonder if the gains are from the weight loss or spin.

You don't HAVE to do anything really. It just depends on what you want to accomplish, your budget, and your preference. I know it sucks in the cold. I'm in Chicagoland and haven't been outside either. I did 9.5 miles running on a treadmill this morning because it was 7 degrees when I got up this morning! Just do your best. If you fnd you have a budget for a trainer and want to see some bigger gains later you can re-consider.

Edited by Meulen 2011-01-09 3:39 PM

You keep speaking of injury during the running.  What injuries are common to running to much and what can be done to help prevent them?   Do you stretch before and after or just after?  What is a good warm up for running?  Thanks Brian