Not phat? Phatknot SLAYER - CLOSED (Page 3)

Stretching? I'm basically lazy. It's really a miracle that I even bike, run, swim or do anthing esle that requires activity. ; ) So, I usually put stretching off. LOL

Weight management? I've lost 100lbs and it's kinda of depressing I still have 40-50 to go. I've been a big calories in and calories out guy, but I'm really starting to think that carbs can be a big problem.  I'm trying to cut back on carbs because I have realized the lower carb diet helps to manage my apetite better and helps with water weight. Problem is I'm a vegetarian and I can't just crab a slab of beef when ever I want.

BTW welcome everyone and I look forward to getting to know everybody over the next several months.

Phil

Edited by StlPhil 2010-12-30 1:51 PM

Stretching - I do it after training and not before. Don't see the point of doing it before and the evidence I've read says there's no real value in it as long as you warm up sufficiently. Afterwards I do stretch but not extensively - again it's one of those things I think I should do but by that time I'm late for what else I've planned.

Phil - as a veggie what do you do to avoid carbs and what do you use for protein? I've got quite a veggie based diet but want to avoid the cheese and eggs because of the fat so other than surviving on beans I get a bit stuck for protein.

We eat a lot of tofu and tempeh. Bocca has a lot of good meat substitutes like veggie burgers. Morning Star has meat substitutes, but I have found they are really high in sodium. We eat tons of eggs for protein. I have to be careful because I love cheese. I could sit down and eat a block in the "Really Fat Phil Days." ; ) 

I try to limit pasta and rice. I love Kashi cereal. Just too many carbs though.

Protein intake is a challenge for vegetarians. Especially those that train a lot.

Phil

Next topic I want to raise is stretching. I want to hear your thoughts about it. I heard it mentioned earlier. With what little time we have, does it fit into the schedule?

my morning stretch is all of 30 seconds and if my hamstrings are happy away i go.
i have been doing the P90X videos and i do like the stretching routine. it is 45 minutes and i do feel rather good afterward. i think it is going to be different for everyone if they are for or against a good stretch.

an interesting way to frame up the off season thinking from tri-ghost to me: 

Hooray!!! I made the cut ... well, there's a first time for everything ;-)
I'm very excited!!!


A little about me:

NAME: Emholli .... Em will do just fine.

STORY: I'm an Aussie ... so we're in summer right now. I'm a total newbie - I've done a couple of triathlons in the past, but nothing serious. I have lacked consistency and I do struggle with motivation once the ''grind'' sets in. At school I was into running ... never any good, but I ran a lot. This year, I want to score a 10km PB (personal best) and each Feb there is a long course triathlon in my State (2km/80km/18km ... I'll convert that from metric for you if you like: 1.24miles/50ish/11ish) ... I'd really like to be fit enough to do that in 2012! Before that though, I need to drop some weight.

WORK: I work full-time ... I'm a journalist.

FAMILY: I'm married with a four-year-old son who keeps me very busy. I like my training schedule not to affect him too much, so I tend to train first thing in the morning and then after he goes to bed.

TRAINING: I'm following the BT 20-week Olympic Distance program.

WORST LEG: Er, that would be the swim, the bike AND the run!!!

RACES: There are a few sprint distance races happening over Jan-Feb ... I plan to enter them just for fun. There's one in late Feb I'm particularly excited about because it's on the same day as the long-course event I want to do in 2012. Be nice to soak up the atmosphere.

Happy training everyone!!

Em

I love reading the posts already!  As far as stretching goes, I don't do it.  Mainly because I have always hated taking he time to do it.  In my basketball days I did before every game and now I look back and think some of it was a waste of time.  I will stretch my hamstrings if I have tight lower back and at times my calves before playing basketball or training.  That's pretty much it.

I have never counted calories and I really need to start doing that.  I hope to learn a lot from each of you and your journeys of staying healthy.  My wife is a great cook who loves to cook healthy.  My problem is that as a sales rep I'm on the road much of the time and it's easy to eat fast food.  So fast food and donuts need to be cut out of my diet!!  I'm 205 and would like to drop a bit but more importantly I want to have a complete healthy lifestyle.

Stretching is something I've really focused on in the last month- mostly because of dancing and because I am seriously not flexible. One question I have is does becoming more flexible interfere with building muscle mass? and vice versa?

Counting calories and that whole break down has worked well for me.....even got quite obsessive about it and created a 2 page spreadsheet. 
(Yes, I'm one of THOSE kind of people). My problem? Cravings...... for sugar mostly. That is one of my biggest struggles.

I'm a non-stretcher for the most part. Mostly because it hurts. I am as inflexible as you can get. I have started trying to touch my toes to improve my aero position on the bike and sitting on my heels to improve my kick while swimming. Most of the people I know who are strong believers in stretching always seem to have injuries.

I really can't comment on weight loss because it is not an issue for me. I carried too much weight for a while but with training and making smart food choices my body fat composition and weight has settled into a healthy level.

That is a great article in regards to time management getting the best ROI from training.

I didn't hear about the podium antics but I did hear from a fellow who tried to keep up with you on the run and passed out at about mile 7 and woke up in the medical tent.

I love a good stretch. I'm about as flexible as a ceramic tile, but I do love that stretching feeling. I enjoy a bit of yoga too.

I don't like to stretch before I run ... I prefer a nice easy warm-up. But I always stretch after I get back. Same with cycling. Usually my back, calves, shoulders and legs need a good stretch after a bike session.
Swimming's a whole other story (because I'm not very good at it).
When I swim, I just do a warm-up and a warm-down ... no real stretching. Unfortunately, my warm-up pace is very very close to my flat out pace!!! Ha!

Em

Pretty excited. It's going to be 65 here in St. Louis tomorrow and I'm headed OUTSIDE on the bike! Hoping to get a couple hours in!!! WhhoooooHoooo!

BTW it's going to be in the 30's on Saturday. : (

it's warm in Toronto, Canada too!
(that bike idea is looking pretty good to me too!)
but I'll admit... as BADLY as I want to take my new road bike out for another spin (I JUST got it in November)... I'll more than likely be taking the mountain bike out of storage.
BUT! The reason why I'm most grateful for this mini heat-wave is because I'm supposed to be doing an official Polar Bear dip on New Year's Day!

Almost seems like cheating, given that it's forecast to be well above the freezing mark...
but I'll TAKE it!
If there was ever a year to do it... this seems like the one!

but back to the stretching issue for a sec...
timely discussion... I was climbing some stairs today & could feel some hot spots along my hamstrings that need attention....
I can't get away without stretching.
(but admittedly, i only stretch after running & biking-- never after the swim, unless my neck & shoulders are tense)
typically I aim to take a yoga for runners class once a week (that I find extremely helpful), but lately I've been slacking with that (for the past 2 months or so). I'll aim to get back into that in the new year.
it's just one day of focused stretching, but it does make a difference to me.

Edited by nicruns 2010-12-30 11:46 PM

Good luck with that freezing swim!

I think I may forego stretching and start pole dancing for flexibility haha. Bet you never saw a clydesdale that could do that 8)

Thanks for considering the role of stretching and thinking abut what you may need to different in that area in 2011. Continue to bring it up as desired. Likewise with weight management, chasing fast kids and avoiding fast food, staying out of the med tent, etc. I am wide open for the next topic to tackle.

We can even just address more detail on what went right/wrong for you in 2010 and how we hope to change that in 2011. The floor is yours and there is no structure in what you want to discuss.

This morning I am running a 10k near Cambridge England (Ely New Year's Eve 10k) that I have run 3 years in a row. For some reason, I always weigh alot on this race morning. I am hoping to have a good time and go a solid but unspectacular pace as I am still recovering from a nasty flu. Great thing about this race is that even though you end at about noon, they hand you a bottle of 5% alcohol special beer at the finish line. Holy carbohydrate Batman! 

Good luck in the 10k.

A recurring theme for me is going to be "mental toughness" How does someone become a "Slayer" instead of the guy or gal who becomes slayed? Is it done in training? Is it a lifestyle? Genetic gift?

For example: at a recent 5k I was able to run with a guy I know from local triathlons for about 1 mile. We got into some hills and I faded back and was dropped from front group. I backed off on my pace because my thighs were burning and self doubt that I could maintain the pace without "having to walk" in-spite of the fact I can run for hours at a slow pace. After the race I could tell he was suffering and I felt pretty good. He picks up a medal and I go home regretting not pushing my threshold.


I have a 5k on 1/22 that I really want to make a break through race. I am trying to hang on to my long course endurance now but really want to learn to perform above my threshold on short courses.   There is no doubt in my mind that other people are suffering like me when they race but what do they do to keep from backing off? If it is something learned in training, I would love to hear it.

Peter

I think thats a wonderful topic. Its very rich. What I learned this year is that having the Slayer mentality can be a curse if you are competing against others. You really need to keep the focus on yourself and accept your performances as the best your training, your ability, your race course, the conditions allow. Comparing yourself to others takes the pleasure out of the sport for me if I let it. Now if you are underperforming your ability given all of those conditions, I'd ask you why you thought that was the case?

You are drawing a conclusion that you might not have good enough evidence for (i.e., I was weak mentally when the going got really tough). I am not sure thats the case. Did you ask yourself was your training suited to short course road race demands? How about were your expectations in line with your training? Are you going easy on the back half of your speed workouts? Are you doing enough vo2 and LT/tempo runs or staying in your comfort zone? 

I am not saying you didn't wuss out; all I am saying are what other plausible factors are involved? Now having said that, some folks have anxiety that interferes, others fear success, some are more passive personalities, etc., and it can be a combination of everything. I'd like to hear more about your and others here thoughts on the matter of what makes a slayer. I think its a bit of everything I am mentioning.

Now if you are under-performing your ability given all of those conditions, I'd ask you why you thought that was the case?

"Snakes in the head" is an easy answer. When I started this sport I was at the bottom of the bottom half. The better I perform, the higher my expectations become. Based on my volume of training, I just expected  better race results.

 Did you ask yourself was your training suited to short course road race demands? How about were your expectations in line with your training? Are you going easy on the back half of your speed workouts? Are you doing enough vo2 and LT/tempo runs or staying in your comfort zone?

My training was definitely long course and my speed expectation may be unrealistic. My training volume seemed high to me but may be considered marginal by others. I probably don't spend enough time cooling down but instead end up finishing my workouts strong. I spend way too much time in my comfort zone. My focus right now is running but I have found that my trainer rides have helped push me in my training.

I still need to overcome the desire to fall into my lazy/slow/comfort zone on race-day. Instead of going through the motions and finishing I want to "take it up a notch" and move into the next level.

It is certainly possible my results were a direct reflection of my training. If that correct, I will need to change something to reach the goals I have set for myself this year. Being able to focus on speed and efficiency of motion will play a big part in my training this year.

Peter

Perhaps the snakes in your head go away if your training makes you more aware of the reality of what you can accomplish. I don't know if you are just misinterpreting race day results at this point. I can tell you there is a will to get the best out of yourself. Why not do that in training and just replicate it on race day?

An example for me comes from the FIRST program (Run Less Run Fast) which is designed for running out of Furman in your home state. It gives structured workouts to improve your long course speed, but the byproduct of it is that you get faster on short course running as well. Then there is carry over to the other sports (hint: Em with swimming).

Pretty much the big push among many well respected coaches that I have read on this site is to increase training load through intensity rather than volume for the time crunched age grouper. This means getting you out of the aerobic zone 2 comfortable workouts and into higher zones with bigger payoffs in the variables you are looking to improve in body and mind.

Thoughts everyone?

Oh yeah and happy new year's! The 10k went decent. Minute slower on the same course than last year, but good result considering. Hope some of you are training today haha.

Nice job on the 10k!

I also have good things to say about the FIRST program.  I used it to train for a couple of marathons and gained a lot of fitness and speed without any of the overuse injuries runners are so prone to.

I'm very interested in your opinions on intensity vs. volume work.  Right now, I'm doing the Be Ironfit competitive plan for my first IM.  Everything is Zone 1 or 2 right now.  His theory is that you have to build an aerobic base before adding any speedwork.  Even once intensity is added, it's not much.  Do you think that's just a result of the distances involved? I know you're not going to ride 112 miles in Z4, for example.   The only problem is that I'm sooo slow, especially my running, because I'm keeping the intensity low.  That, of course, could also be an issue with my fitness level that will hopefully improve as I continue.  

Seems like there are lots of good people in this group.  Looking forward to getting to know you all and accomplish our tri goals together

Heading off to run in Balboa park now with my dogs.  Great start to 2011! 

ADollar on here once told me that I liked IM/long course training because its easy compared to short course. He said fuel properly and just go at a steady pace (70%) for longer and longer duration. I agree in some respects.

However, if you want to go faster, you have to train faster in my book. I am not a coach however, so don't quote me. Plenty of folks have used the BarryP running program on slowtwitch.com (google it) for a high volume/low intensity plan and got faster. But if you are targeting short course and want to go faster, you have to do vo2 and tempo/LT work, as well as long slow distance.

Want to kill the competition and gain more confidence? Do more intervals. Suffer more in practice. However, make sure your base is adequate.

Happy New Year everyone.

I have gotten a little faster with volume but really haven't done a lot of speedwork partly because it hurts, fear of injury, and a weak aero-base. Now that my base is better I am planning to bump up the speedwork and push myself harder during training. last season I was concerned about getting an overuse injury a month or two before  my IM.

I am familiar with the Furman running program and FIRST. My main concern was a lack of aero-base and the possibility of injury. My coach also stressed volume. I did a lot of Long Steady/Slow Runs last year, This year it will be speedwork on the run and bike.

Good stuff so far,

Still wondering if you think the intense short workouts help with long course endurance?

Like everyone else, my training time is limited. It would be great to maximize the efficiency of the workouts.

L

My thoughts are that you must train all three systems Peter to the best degree possible to be the fastest you can be in short, medium, and long course. three systems are vo2 (intervals), LT (tempos), and cellular/mitochrondrial (long stuff).

the problem that I have is, at my weight, that my body can't always hack the intensity of the hard runs when I am doing high bike training loads, and that I am not keen swimming so I avoid the hard sets. throw the bike intervals at me all day long.

but to answer your question, i have little doubt that your training should be addressing your specific needs and intensity would appear to be needed. staying too much in z2 seems to be something thats not working for you come race day according to your prior posts. but if you want to be tough at a 5k/sprint tri your training needs to hurt a bit so you can dig deep and slay (perform the best you are able to given the course and conditions). you have the base and if your body can hack it, you have to push the envelope without getting injured if you want mo betta.

DISCLAIMER:however, your coach really knows best because I am talking generally AS A MENTOR and am not a coach. i want you all to kick some booty.



Edited by phatknot 2011-01-01 5:19 PM

just a heads up everyone. tomorrow i am flying all day so I may not be posting until Sunday night or Monday but keep it going. We need all of you to contribute to start catching up to the other mentor groups. who do they think they are trying to whoop us in posts?!?

Carry on with the intensity/volume=training load debate, stretching, weight management, etc.

a new possible Topic of the day: missed workouts. what to do?

Being a slayer .... AKA mental toughness, is something I'd really be interested people thoughts about it. I seem to be my own worst enemy - I'm not the fastest (I'm usually at the back or the lower end especially in the run but if I start to focus on those around me my heart rate goes up, my anxiety increases and all in all it becomes a lot harder. I've noticed this more obviously on 5k races that I do every week so I now try to repeat the mantra 'it's all about me' to keep the focus on making my run the best and off watching what others are doing. I'd like to know what others use to keep the focus and silence the internal demons!

Getting faster - in terms of the running the biggest difference I've see was to incorporate interval training at least once a week. It really made an inpact on my times.

lol
i was feeling guilty so i doubled-up on my workout today.
14k (slow) run in the morning, followed by a 3hr spin session in the afternoon.

getting faster is ALWAYS the aim. i love pushing for speed during my shorter run workouts (hills included). especially in the winter keeping that intensity high comes in handy for me!

& that's where the stretching comes in after the fact for me....
(so that i mitigate some of the potential damage and don't feel it as much the following day)

but i am CLEARLY no expert when it comes to this (or anything else!)
it's all been informal trial & error for me.
i just know that it's a confidence booster for me putting the miles in (which for me helps in a serious way on race day!)