Assault Weapons Ban being introduced (Page 3)

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

1.  Oh, I understood what you wrote.  And I stand by my assertion.  And I understand what might have not happened in the Conn. case if the firearms weren't kept in the house.  However, I'm not an "ends justifies the means" type of guy. 

2.  You're wrong owning a gun is and individually protected right of the US Constitution.  You're just flat out wrong on that. In fact the most recent US Sup Ct case involving firearms just settled the question in the affirmative that the 2nd Amendment is and individual right, not a collective right.  Thus there is in fact an individual right to own a firearm.  As a Constitutionally protected right, like all rights, it can be infringed upon by regulations, provided the government demonstrate a compelling governmental interest in restricting the right and the restriction is done in the least intrusive manner.  To say there is no Constitutional right to own a firearm is just plainly and factually wrong.  Sorry.  You are misunderstand the difference between a "Right" and "valid restrictions on that right".  But just because there may be restrictions doesn't mean there isn't a right.  For instance, there are restrictions on speech, generally: time, place, manner restrictions.  But to say because there are valid time, place, manner restrictions does not mean there is no Constitutionally protected right of free speech.  You've just missed the mark on this one.

3.  There is a huge difference between the access regulations/laws that most states have (keeping guns out of reach of minors) and prohibiting someone from possessing a firearm in their home because of the actions or status of another. 

4.  But if you're an "ends justifies the means" type guy, then it just doesn't matter.  Keep us all safe regardless of how you have to accomplish it.

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 11:13 AM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Money is a great motivator.  If you want to impact the number of guns, you hit people and manufacturers in the pocketbook.  No you won't get rid of them all but you can certainly curtail them a great deal.  It worked for cigarettes.  And it even worked for certain types of guns that we've already mentioned (fully automatic = mega expensive to license).

Taxing / licensing guns not good enough?  You could even make it mandatory that gun owners purchase liability insurance.

I agree though, that none of that matters if we don't get serious about tracking gun ownership.  The NRA has consistently opposed a national gun registry but their base is getting smaller.  A study showed gun ownership is actually decreasing.  1973: 50% of households.  2010: 32%.  But there are simply more guns per household.  The gun lobby ramps up paranoia about "the government taking away guns" and people go on shopping sprees.  Good times.

spudone - 2012-12-27 1:46 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 11:13 AM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Money is a great motivator.  If you want to impact the number of guns, you hit people and manufacturers in the pocketbook.  No you won't get rid of them all but you can certainly curtail them a great deal.  It worked for cigarettes.  And it even worked for certain types of guns that we've already mentioned (fully automatic = mega expensive to license).

Taxing / licensing guns not good enough?  You could even make it mandatory that gun owners purchase liability insurance.

I agree though, that none of that matters if we don't get serious about tracking gun ownership.  The NRA has consistently opposed a national gun registry but their base is getting smaller.  A study showed gun ownership is actually decreasing.  1973: 50% of households.  2010: 32%.  But there are simply more guns per household.  The gun lobby ramps up paranoia about "the government taking away guns" and people go on shopping sprees.  Good times.

Bleh....you can find a stantistic on guns to match whatever you want......I've seen stats as high as 60% of households.....nobody knows. LOL

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 11:13 AM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Money is a great motivator.  If you want to impact the number of guns, you hit people and manufacturers in the pocketbook.  No you won't get rid of them all but you can certainly curtail them a great deal.  It worked for cigarettes.  And it even worked for certain types of guns that we've already mentioned (fully automatic = mega expensive to license).

Taxing / licensing guns not good enough?  You could even make it mandatory that gun owners purchase liability insurance.

I agree though, that none of that matters if we don't get serious about tracking gun ownership.  The NRA has consistently opposed a national gun registry but their base is getting smaller.  A study showed gun ownership is actually decreasing.  1973: 50% of households.  2010: 32%.  But there are simply more guns per household.  The gun lobby ramps up paranoia about "the government taking away guns" and people go on shopping sprees.  Good times.

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:15 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:13 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Right, because when I come to COJ, I expect it to be productive.

No, not this that we do, of course THIS is a waste  LOL ......the time and money that will spent on new laws and regulations that will not have any effect on the shootings that people think they will prevent.  I'll never understand it.

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:15 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:13 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Right, because when I come to COJ, I expect it to be productive.

No, not this that we do, of course THIS is a waste  LOL ......the time and money that will spent on new laws and regulations that will not have any effect on the shootings that people think they will prevent.  I'll never understand it.

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:15 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:13 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Right, because when I come to COJ, I expect it to be productive.

No, not this that we do, of course THIS is a waste  LOL ......the time and money that will spent on new laws and regulations that will not have any effect on the shootings that people think they will prevent.  I'll never understand it.

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 2:00 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:48 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:15 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:13 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Right, because when I come to COJ, I expect it to be productive.

No, not this that we do, of course THIS is a waste  LOL ......the time and money that will spent on new laws and regulations that will not have any effect on the shootings that people think they will prevent.  I'll never understand it.

You’re probably right, and I know it’s not exactly apples and oranges, but I bet if you had told people in the 40’s and 50’s that, in the late 70’s and 80’s there would be a huge backlash against smoking, so much so that smoking would be virtually nonexistent by comparison twenty years later, people wouldn’t have believed you. I think that as the population of this country continues to gravitate towards major cities, which tend to have more stringent gun laws and, more importantly, where hunting and recreational shooting is less a part of daily life, that you’ll see a sharp decrease in the number of Americans who feel as strongly about gun ownership as you do.

I don't even feel that strongly about it.....  (snip) we have guns....we always will.  (snip)we'll just always have guns.  Nothing will change that.

You can beg to differ all you want....my family will always have guns.  My son feels the same as I do. You can ban them if you want.....you'll never find ours.  The protection was put into the Constitution for a reason.  I'm good with the reason.

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:11 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 2:09 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 2:00 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:48 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:15 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:13 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-27 1:12 PM

Left Brain - 2012-12-27 1:10 PM

As long as everyone realizes that nothing proposed here or in the new law is going to have a single effect on the murder rate in this country I'm good with the discussion.  But if there is anyone who thinks this will make a difference in the number of gun murders per year....you're delusional.

In fact, there a5re more guns in our society now than at any other timein our history....and gun deaths have beenin a steady decline.

I know it all feels good.....but it's a MONUMENTAL waste of time, energy, and money.

Yes, yes, we've covered that.

Yeah, we have.....but geez, what an absolute waste this all is.

Right, because when I come to COJ, I expect it to be productive.

No, not this that we do, of course THIS is a waste  LOL ......the time and money that will spent on new laws and regulations that will not have any effect on the shootings that people think they will prevent.  I'll never understand it.

You’re probably right, and I know it’s not exactly apples and oranges, but I bet if you had told people in the 40’s and 50’s that, in the late 70’s and 80’s there would be a huge backlash against smoking, so much so that smoking would be virtually nonexistent by comparison twenty years later, people wouldn’t have believed you. I think that as the population of this country continues to gravitate towards major cities, which tend to have more stringent gun laws and, more importantly, where hunting and recreational shooting is less a part of daily life, that you’ll see a sharp decrease in the number of Americans who feel as strongly about gun ownership as you do.

I don't even feel that strongly about it.....  (snip) we have guns....we always will.  (snip)we'll just always have guns.  Nothing will change that.

 

I beg to differ...

Have fun with the civil war trying to take them..... oh... but you don't have any guns. That might be a problem.

You can beg to differ all you want....my family will always have guns.  My son feels the same as I do. You can ban them if you want.....you'll never find ours.  The protection was put into the Constitution for a reason.  I'm good with the reason.