Dear Daughter... (Page 3)

I agree about the benefits of continued conversation and fostering positive healthy relationships with our kids.. most definitely. 

But I am not opposed to telling my son (while he's under 18) that he's not allowed to mess around with girls. I'm not an authoritative parent, but it's my responsibility to keep him safe and guide him toward values that in my opinion, are important. 

I don't think that's "arbitrary".  

I struggle with this part of this idea a lot. 

I've seen a lot of families think they have this nailed down, and it's not, though, admittedly, that certainly can go for any parenting philosophy or rule du jour--regardless of its conservative or liberal bend. 

... So... you let them watch?

No kids here, so anything I say is meaningless... but I was one once.

My parents did not "forbid" me to do anything, but they certainly told me what right and wrong was. I did what I wanted any way, but I was the one that paid the price, and I knew why. I always knew why... and eventually I grew to trust what they told me. And later on... I still had free will, but I knew what right and wrong was. I always did, and I still do.

That is a parents job, to teach what right and wrong is, and then let the kid go out do what they will with it. The older I get, the more I realize how right my parents were.

True story, I was talking to my Mom that was visiting the other day. She knew I had one tattoo, but did not know I had 2. I'm thinking of getting another one. But she told me that she did not "approve" of that. I asked her if she REALLY believed that she had any say in the matter of her 46 yo son getting a third tattoo. She still was not happy...

We left it with me getting a tattoo on my neck that says "My Mom said I could not get a tattoo here"

I think it's possible to do both. One teaches values, models them, and then applies house rules that are appropriate for the age of one's child. 

And I also agree that if you want a kid to have certain values.. it's important, as a parent, to live them. 

Nailed down.. what? What is the "this"? You mean some parents think if they tell their kid not to do, or more important, what to do, it will automatically happen? 

What are you "saying"?

I have seen lots of conservative families espouse certain values and, yes, "forbid" things only to have their kids go off the deep-end with sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.  Just because a family teaches certain values to their kids, or models that behavior in their home, doesn't always mean that's what the child/young adult/adult will choose. 

Liberal families also can have things go awry--no doubt--but I personally feel that demystifying things can take away some of the appeal.  My family's approach sounds very similar to Don's and Brian's, but my kids are younger.  We'll see...:)

I can understand what you are saying and it makes sense. Personally, I am not religious per say, so I am not going to comment on the Catholic "rule" system.

But I am still not quite sure what the whole "demystify" thing means... I certainly agree that kids need upfront facts about sex. For sure...

Having rules and guidelines along those lines doesn't equate with "mystifying" something though.. I am guessing you are applying your comments to the behavior of some of your conservative friends.

I have a friend whose husband is kind of an idiot.

He didn't think sex education should be taught in school and threw a big fit about it... certainly embarrassed his kid.. 

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by KateTri1

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by KateTri1

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly  And teens are forbidden to drink alcohol, but how's that working out? Education is a million times more effective than arbitrary rules. I've never forbidden my kids a taste of whatever I'm drinking. I'd rather them have a sip in front of me than sneaking around with his friends and all that peer pressure to try something forbidden. Sex is one of the most powerful drives we as humans (or any animal, actually) experience. Putting that into context is a pretty big part of being a parent. Sadly most parent's are afraid to have blunt conversations around this topic, but of all things you should talk to your kids .

I agree about the benefits of continued conversation and fostering positive healthy relationships with our kids.. most definitely. 

But I am not opposed to telling my son (while he's under 18) that he's not allowed to mess around with girls. I'm not an authoritative parent, but it's my responsibility to keep him safe and guide him toward values that in my opinion, are important. 

I don't think that's "arbitrary".  

How do you tell him that he's not allowed to mess around with girls? I'm assuming there's more or it than 'I forbid it.'

I struggle with this part of this idea a lot. 

I've seen a lot of families think they have this nailed down, and it's not, though, admittedly, that certainly can go for any parenting philosophy or rule du jour--regardless of its conservative or liberal bend. 

Nailed down.. what? What is the "this"? You mean some parents think if they tell their kid not to do, or more important, what to do, it will automatically happen? 

Well, actually, LB gave a really good example.  I was thinking it, but I've been bagging on the Catholic Church too much lately, so I tried to keep it more universal 

I have seen lots of conservative families espouse certain values and, yes, "forbid" things only to have their kids go off the deep-end with sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.  Just because a family teaches certain values to their kids, or models that behavior in their home, doesn't always mean that's what the child/young adult/adult will choose. 

Liberal families also can have things go awry--no doubt--but I personally feel that demystifying things can take away some of the appeal.  My family's approach sounds very similar to Don's and Brian's, but my kids are younger.  We'll see...

Variables are so wide, that there is no you can make this a "conservative/liberal" thing. No way you can point to  "demistyfying" as a "better" way of doing things. Everyone has train wrecks when everything was done "right", and everyone has good grow out of horrible conditions. On this one... yes, it IS copmplicated.

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by KateTri1

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by KateTri1

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly  And teens are forbidden to drink alcohol, but how's that working out? Education is a million times more effective than arbitrary rules. I've never forbidden my kids a taste of whatever I'm drinking. I'd rather them have a sip in front of me than sneaking around with his friends and all that peer pressure to try something forbidden. Sex is one of the most powerful drives we as humans (or any animal, actually) experience. Putting that into context is a pretty big part of being a parent. Sadly most parent's are afraid to have blunt conversations around this topic, but of all things you should talk to your kids .

I agree about the benefits of continued conversation and fostering positive healthy relationships with our kids.. most definitely. 

But I am not opposed to telling my son (while he's under 18) that he's not allowed to mess around with girls. I'm not an authoritative parent, but it's my responsibility to keep him safe and guide him toward values that in my opinion, are important. 

I don't think that's "arbitrary".  

How do you tell him that he's not allowed to mess around with girls? I'm assuming there's more or it than 'I forbid it.'

I struggle with this part of this idea a lot. 

I've seen a lot of families think they have this nailed down, and it's not, though, admittedly, that certainly can go for any parenting philosophy or rule du jour--regardless of its conservative or liberal bend. 

Nailed down.. what? What is the "this"? You mean some parents think if they tell their kid not to do, or more important, what to do, it will automatically happen? 

Well, actually, LB gave a really good example.  I was thinking it, but I've been bagging on the Catholic Church too much lately, so I tried to keep it more universal 

I have seen lots of conservative families espouse certain values and, yes, "forbid" things only to have their kids go off the deep-end with sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.  Just because a family teaches certain values to their kids, or models that behavior in their home, doesn't always mean that's what the child/young adult/adult will choose. 

Liberal families also can have things go awry--no doubt--but I personally feel that demystifying things can take away some of the appeal.  My family's approach sounds very similar to Don's and Brian's, but my kids are younger.  We'll see...

I'll agree with you here, IMHO straight up forbidding things is the worst approach and pretty much guarantees they'll do exactly what you don't want them to do when they get the first chance.  There's a balance between being protective and allowing your kids freedom.

With our kids, we have never forbidden them from doing anything per se but we did try to raise them as kind compassionate kids who were aware of the negatives of things like drinking, drugs, and sex.  We then encourage them to not have sex outside of marriage, but are under no illusions that they likely will.  
I Had "the talk" with the boys around age 12 and told them about the dangers of pornography and having unprotected sex  and even told them if they were at that point they could come to me and I'd get them protection if they needed it.

We were even very clear that my wife and I both had sex as teenagers and even explained many of the issues we've had to deal with as a result.

My wife told our daughter straight up, if she was going to even think about messing around that she'd get her on the pill.

So, who knows.  Even with my "very conservative" beliefs I may not be all that far from you on this whole thing Switch.  lol

My oldest is leaving for college tomorrow.  He has a big heart and really longs for a committed relationship so I don't anticipate him "sleeping around" a bunch, but I am sure he'll find a girlfriend and get physical.  My middle son who is a junior is in high school is similar, so I would say about the same.
My daughter (14) on the other hand is very committed to the no sex outside of marriage thing and is very active in several groups promoting the same.  So, with her she may very well stick it out, but if she doesn't she is very well educated on the topic.  

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by KateTri1

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by KateTri1

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly  And teens are forbidden to drink alcohol, but how's that working out? Education is a million times more effective than arbitrary rules. I've never forbidden my kids a taste of whatever I'm drinking. I'd rather them have a sip in front of me than sneaking around with his friends and all that peer pressure to try something forbidden. Sex is one of the most powerful drives we as humans (or any animal, actually) experience. Putting that into context is a pretty big part of being a parent. Sadly most parent's are afraid to have blunt conversations around this topic, but of all things you should talk to your kids .

I agree about the benefits of continued conversation and fostering positive healthy relationships with our kids.. most definitely. 

But I am not opposed to telling my son (while he's under 18) that he's not allowed to mess around with girls. I'm not an authoritative parent, but it's my responsibility to keep him safe and guide him toward values that in my opinion, are important. 

I don't think that's "arbitrary".  

How do you tell him that he's not allowed to mess around with girls? I'm assuming there's more or it than 'I forbid it.'

I struggle with this part of this idea a lot. 

I've seen a lot of families think they have this nailed down, and it's not, though, admittedly, that certainly can go for any parenting philosophy or rule du jour--regardless of its conservative or liberal bend. 

Nailed down.. what? What is the "this"? You mean some parents think if they tell their kid not to do, or more important, what to do, it will automatically happen? 

Well, actually, LB gave a really good example.  I was thinking it, but I've been bagging on the Catholic Church too much lately, so I tried to keep it more universal 

I have seen lots of conservative families espouse certain values and, yes, "forbid" things only to have their kids go off the deep-end with sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.  Just because a family teaches certain values to their kids, or models that behavior in their home, doesn't always mean that's what the child/young adult/adult will choose. 

Liberal families also can have things go awry--no doubt--but I personally feel that demystifying things can take away some of the appeal.  My family's approach sounds very similar to Don's and Brian's, but my kids are younger.  We'll see...

Variables are so wide, that there is no you can make this a "conservative/liberal" thing. No way you can point to  "demistyfying" as a "better" way of doing things. Everyone has train wrecks when everything was done "right", and everyone has good grow out of horrible conditions. On this one... yes, it IS copmplicated.

Powerman, that's pretty much what I just said. Dude, you don't have to like me, but try to read the words I've written with a little less spin.

Have you had your coffee this morning?

"Conservatives espouse certain values only to have things not work out". Which I read as not so much "better", no?

"Yes things can go bad, but I feel demistifying things can take away some of the appeal" Which I read as "better" no?

And this was added to the Conservative paragraph... "Just because a family teaches certain values to their kids, or models that behavior in their home, doesn't always mean that's what the child/young adult/adult will choose."... yet can obviously apply to those that "espouce" demystification... no?

I thought I read what you wrote.

I have read through this thread and have debated about whether I wanted to jump into or not. Personally, I disagree with alot of what is being said on here. And without going through every post and quoting people directly, I am going to just hit some things that stood out to me based on what I believe and what I am teaching my 3 sons.

1. Sex is just sex is something I do not believe in. I believe there is a bond created with everyone that you engage in any type of sexual experience. There are emotional bonds (good and bad) created with every sexual experience and you are linked to that person forever.  There is a lot of talk about forbidding kids to have sex and how that never works out. I am not ashamed to say that I will teach my kids not to have premarital sex. I understand that I have limited control over my boys once they reach a certain age and that is why I try to explain to them that sex is a beautiful thing and I believe it is meant to be shared between a husband and wife in the confines of marriage.

2. Someone said they would encourage their child to find out if their future spouse is compatible in bed before marrying them (or something to that effect). I am teaching my children that sex within the confines of marriage is worth the wait. It is a special bond between a man and a woman. This is an experience that they only get one "first time" in doing. I understand that sex is an important part of marriage, however, the time spent actually having sex compared to everything else that goes into a marriage is minimal. There is a lot more to a good marriage than just good sex. I would hate for my wife to compare me to her past lovers while we being intimate, and I would hate to do the same to her. 

I understand that there are many views on BT threads. I do not agree with all of them and I do not expect them to all agree with me. I can share my experiences with my kids and let them know that I love my wife and she is the only woman I have ever been with and our first night together was on our wedding night and it was a great night and a great experience that we both treasured.  I know it is not "cool" to say that or admit to being a virgin on the wedding night, but I was always taught that sex is not something that you use freely.

I'm saying that forbidding a natural human function is a failed experiment.

Here's what I deal with.  I'm not sure I can use another word to accurately portray where my 15 year old son is with this issue so I will just say that he is hounded on his phone, his facebook account, and in person by girls.  As the biggest and arguably most athletic boy in his class it's amazing what I have seen girls text and facebook to him.  It's become a matter of great entertainment for us....but it's really not that funny.  I know it's only a matter of time before some girl, or guy (I don't control that either although I'll use girls because that seems to be his orientation),  becomes an object of affection for him.  Once that happens, probably sooner then later, all he will have to fall back on is his good relationship with me, and the guidance I can hopefully provide.  Maybe he'll wait until he gets married, or maybe he won't because he can't......it's natural, and powerful. 

What he doesn't have to be is disrespectful, what he doesn't have to be is irresponsible, and most certainly it doesn't have to be something that he hides or is ashamed of.  It's my job and my responsibility to walk him down that road, and I will.

I like the prospects for my son's future.....he's a great kid with many talents.  I consider a pothole filled with bad choices when it comes to sex to be one of the greatest obstacles in that future...but I also like his chances as long as he and I keep our relationship strong and he feels like he can confide in me.  I figure once I "forbid" him from doing something....especially something that is good and natural, his confidence in me as someone he can talk to erodes......I'm not interested in that.  I'm interested in him maturing as a person and an athlete with goals and dreams who's future remains bright.

Where did anyone in this thread say sex is "forbidden"? And if you are referring to rules about the engagement of underaged sexual acts.. when did that become an "experiment"?

I also disagree with the fact that having rules causes kids to not confide.. In my opinion having a poor parent/child relationship causes that.. 

I can think of worse.. but ok.. whatever. You are entitled to your opinion.