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2008-01-02 10:39 PM
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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

TriPainter - 2008-01-02 7:04 PM How many calories a day did you stay at when you lost all that weight?

Was this directed at me? I assume so.

I actually did Weight Watchers. Seems like I was at 24 points per day. If you go back to my blog starting Sept 26, 2005. I was pretty diligent about logging my food every day for the first 3 weeks. It was typically around 1300-1500 calories per day.



2008-01-03 2:13 AM
in reply to: #1126502

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
Thanks for the LT threshold test. I actually did that once last year and simply did not have the confidence in the test to believe it. It said my LT was 164 and that seemed too high to me. I am going to do this again after my trips these next two weekends. I should be ready after what I have planned. Question though about how to do it on the bike, is it the same process? My heart rates seem to be lower with higher RPE's is that normal?
2008-01-03 7:26 AM
in reply to: #1130093

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

coach p - 2008-01-03 2:13 AM Thanks for the LT threshold test. I actually did that once last year and simply did not have the confidence in the test to believe it. It said my LT was 164 and that seemed too high to me. I am going to do this again after my trips these next two weekends. I should be ready after what I have planned. Question though about how to do it on the bike, is it the same process? My heart rates seem to be lower with higher RPE's is that normal?

If at the end of the 20 minute time trial you feel like you want to puke, you did it right. Trust in the test. If after a few weeks training in Zone 2 it feels too easy, test it again. If you are like me, you may need a longer warmup to get your heart rate up. I do a 90 minute field test for the bike because I can't seem to get my heart rate up on the bike for the first 25-30 minutes.

An LT of 164 doesn't sound that high to me. My bike LT is 167, and my run LT is 175. Heck, my wife's run LT is something like 180. That's why formulas like 220-Age mean nothing. Everyone is different. And knowing your mythical Max Heart Rate doesn't tell you much anyway.

Having a higher or lower LT doesn't necessarily mean you are in better or worse shape than anyone either. And you may not see any change in your LT over time. You may see the same LT in subsequent tests. However, what you should see is that you can go farther/faster at your LT heart rate. Take my bike LT for example. My first LT test I hit 172 bpm and was at 20 mph. My last one I only hit 167, but I was right at 21 mph.

2008-01-03 8:09 AM
in reply to: #1129973

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
I just can't imagine shaving my legs yet. Seems like it would take an awful lot of time - Is it better to shave them or get them waxed like the 40 year old virgin?
2008-01-03 8:12 AM
in reply to: #1130275

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

TriPainter - 2008-01-03 8:09 AM I just can't imagine shaving my legs yet. Seems like it would take an awful lot of time - Is it better to shave them or get them waxed like the 40 year old virgin?

I only shave for races, so it's not too bad. Probably takes me 30 minutes. I gained a new level of respect for my wife though. I'll never complain when she missed a line on her knee.

I actually used Nair the first time. That was a pretty weird feeling. But I still had leftover hair to shave. So I just shave now. We bought a cheap electric razor that works pretty well. Saves some tread on my Mach 3.

2008-01-03 8:35 AM
in reply to: #1129460

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

TriPainter - 2008-01-02 7:04 PM How many calories a day did you stay at when you lost all that weight?

That may be directed at me... so I will answer.   When I try to lose a bit of weight, I try to stay around 2000 calories per day and let my exercise dictate my weightloss.   I did this at 230lbs when i was not exercising much. And I do it now when my BMR is less than 2000 cals and I exercise alot.  You just have to be careful to monitor your energy levels and try to maintain a healthy balance of carbs, protein, and fat.    If you feel like you have no energy, you are probably not eating well enough.  When i am watching my weight I try to maintain a balance of 60% Carbs, 20% Protien, 20% Fat, or even 60% Carbs, 25-30% Protein, and 10-15% fat.    Try to make your carbs good carbs likewhole wheats and pasta not from refined sugar.  Try to make your protein lean protein like chicken or turkey and try to make your fats unsaturated like from olive oil or nuts..   Nuts will also give you protein. 

You can get an approximate BMR online (google BMR calculator) and thats all I have used in the past.   Use that as your baseline (like my 2000 calories) and if you try to maintain that balance of carbs, protien and fat, you will lose weight and you will also get stronger and faster.  If you go over on your calories one day, dont sweat it.  Just come back the next day and stick to the plan.    If you have any questions about what  I am saying, please dont hesitate to ask.   Good luck

 Josh



2008-01-03 8:45 AM
in reply to: #1130340

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
That may be directed at me... so I will answer.   When I try to lose a bit of weight, I try to stay around 2000 calories per day and let my exercise dictate my weightloss.   I did this at 230lbs when i was not exercising much. And I do it now when my BMR is less than 2000 cals and I exercise alot.  You just have to be careful to monitor your energy levels and try to maintain a healthy balance of carbs, protein, and fat.    If you feel like you have no energy, you are probably not eating well enough.  When i am watching my weight I try to maintain a balance of 60% Carbs, 20% Protien, 20% Fat, or even 60% Carbs, 25-30% Protein, and 10-15% fat.    Try to make your carbs good carbs likewhole wheats and pasta not from refined sugar.  Try to make your protein lean protein like chicken or turkey and try to make your fats unsaturated like from olive oil or nuts..   Nuts will also give you protein. 

You can get an approximate BMR online (google BMR calculator) and thats all I have used in the past.   Use that as your baseline (like my 2000 calories) and if you try to maintain that balance of carbs, protien and fat, you will lose weight and you will also get stronger and faster.  If you go over on your calories one day, dont sweat it.  Just come back the next day and stick to the plan.    If you have any questions about what  I am saying, please dont hesitate to ask.   Good luck

 Josh

Using BMR is another great way to monitor your caloric intake. You can do blood tests to get the actual numbers rather than a guesstimate, but the online calculators are accurate enough to warrant the cost savings.

The real trick to weight loss is slow and steady loss. No more than 1-2 pounds per week. Fad diets like Atkins, where you lose something like 10 pounds the first week and a half, don't work. My father in law did Atkins, lost 30 pounds in a couple of months, and then gained it all back and more.

1-2 pounds per week is a nice number to look for. It takes approximately 3500 calories to lose a pound, so if you cut 500 calories per day, you'll lose a pound a week (7x500=3500). If you cut too many calories, your body will sense that it's not getting enough nutrition and will actually try to hold on to its weight and you won't get anywhere.

2008-01-03 8:49 AM
in reply to: #1130275

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

TriPainter - 2008-01-03 8:09 AM I just can't imagine shaving my legs yet. Seems like it would take an awful lot of time - Is it better to shave them or get them waxed like the 40 year old virgin?

I shaved last year before my second tri.   I maintained (somewhat) through the rest of the tri season.   I have let it grow out through the winter so the winter training runs arent unbearably cold.   I plan on shaving again when it gets a bit warmer.  

It is kind of a pain in the neck, but heres what I did and seems to work well.   I have this hair clipper called "the peanut"  Silly name, I know but it just a little hair clipper.  It comes with attachments but you dont need them for this application.  You could you any hair clipper or beard trimmer Put a towel down first (otherwise your significant other will probably kill you)  and use the clippers to bring th hair down close to the skin.   Dont try to shave your legs with 1/2-1 inch long hair.   Once you have the forest knocked down, you can either leave it like that (if you got it close enough for your taste)  or you can hop in the tub and shave it down with a razor.    The first time takes a bit of time, 40 minutes or so.  To maintain it, it doesnt take that long.. maybe 10 minutes or so as long as you dont let it get too long.     Be sure to clean up after yourself or again your significant other will probably kill you.  

I had trouble with dry skin after I shaved so I switched from edge gel to a product called Shave Secret. Google it you will find it.   It is and oil product that works better than shaving cream. I even convinced my wife to use it... oooh  smooth soft legs Wink  .  If you still have dry skin, put on some baby oil after you get out of the shower and you wont have any problems.

Hope that helps

Josh

2008-01-03 9:05 AM
in reply to: #1130375

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

Be sure to clean up after yourself or again your significant other will probably kill you.  

Very true. A big pile of 2 inch leg hairs left in the tub can get you in big trouble.

What other website would guys talk about shaving their legs?

2008-01-03 9:40 AM
in reply to: #1102477

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
If anyone wants practice ideas for their swim feel free to check out my training log, I started writing them down. I swim at lunch and asked the masters coach to leave everything on the board for me (I am starting to love working out, but not at 5:30 in the am). They usually range from 2800-3200 yds. It has helped me push myself a little harder making myself follow a program.

By the way, nice conversation on leg shaving, it brought me back to my high school swim days
2008-01-03 9:51 AM
in reply to: #1130410

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
apw0397 - 2008-01-03 9:05 AM

What other website would guys talk about shaving their legs?

 

True enough.... maybe the ladies in this group could give us a few pointers???



2008-01-03 9:53 AM
in reply to: #1130532

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

charleston - 2008-01-03 9:40 AM If anyone wants practice ideas for their swim feel free to check out my training log, I started writing them down. I swim at lunch and asked the masters coach to leave everything on the board for me (I am starting to love working out, but not at 5:30 in the am). They usually range from 2800-3200 yds. It has helped me push myself a little harder making myself follow a program.

There are times to work out besides 5:30 in the morning?

2008-01-03 10:08 AM
in reply to: #1130532

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

charleston - 2008-01-03 9:40 AM If anyone wants practice ideas for their swim feel free to check out my training log, I started writing them down. I swim at lunch and asked the masters coach to leave everything on the board for me (I am starting to love working out, but not at 5:30 in the am). They usually range from 2800-3200 yds. It has helped me push myself a little harder making myself follow a program.

Having some different workouts is a good start. It will keep you from getting bored doing the same old thing.

However, the single best way IMO to improve your swim is to join a Masters program if you have one in your area. Make sure that the coach understands your goals - an efficient, energy-conserving stroke. It's not all about speed. It's about finishing the swim feeling fresh for the bike. Some coaches that aren't triathletes only focus on speed. Don't try to emulate Ian Thorpe or Michael Phelps. Their swim techniques work great for them, but they don't have a 12-112 mile ride and 3-26.2 mile run afterwards. So they can afford to go all out in the water.

Triathlete swimming is different. You want a fluid, gliding stroke. It's very different from a pure swimmer. Our masters group is full of triathletes and is coached by a 9 time Ironman. So it is very tri-technique focused.

The improvement you'll see in having an experienced coach wathing you is amazing. Much better than just trying to go out on your own and swim faster. You'll improve for a while, but you'll soon hit a point of diminishing returns. I've only been doing Masters for 6 months, but the time savings I'm seeing are incredible.

2008-01-03 10:32 AM
in reply to: #1130532

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Orange County, CA
Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
charleston - 2008-01-03 9:40 AM

If anyone wants practice ideas for their swim feel free to check out my training log, I started writing them down. I swim at lunch and asked the masters coach to leave everything on the board for me (I am starting to love working out, but not at 5:30 in the am). They usually range from 2800-3200 yds. It has helped me push myself a little harder making myself follow a program.

By the way, nice conversation on leg shaving, it brought me back to my high school swim days


I had my first swim workout in months last night and after just 400 meters my form fell apart. I don't have a coach and have always trained on my own, so I don't really know the first thing about swim drills and such. The biggest challenge for me is keeping my legs from sinking, and I know that you want your body to glide at the top of the water. Any tips or drills that will help me with that?

Lisa
2008-01-03 10:35 AM
in reply to: #1102477

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
I've been shaving my legs for years. For your first time I suggest filling the tub with hot water, put a few candles around, scented oil in the bathwater, a glass of wine, and a Harlequin novel. When you've worked up the courage (and are just about ready to set the book aflame in disgust), grab a fresh razor and pink shaving cream and just go to town.

You are very welcome.
2008-01-03 10:42 AM
in reply to: #1130615

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
apw0397 - 2008-01-03 10:08 AM

Our masters group is full of triathletes and is coached by a 9 time Ironman. So it is very tri-technique focused.

The improvement you'll see in having an experienced coach wathing you is amazing. Much better than just trying to go out on your own and swim faster.



I'm not sure what to expect from a masters group. Do I get one-on-one training and advice from someone, or is it a group effort? My challenge is being able to meet up for group workouts (of any kind--running, biking, swimming) because I have a 4 year-old daughter and a husband who often doesn't come home until 6:30. I can't afford to hire a swim coach, either.


2008-01-03 10:43 AM
in reply to: #1130693

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

sunmonkey72 - 2008-01-03 10:35 AM I've been shaving my legs for years. For your first time I suggest filling the tub with hot water, put a few candles around, scented oil in the bathwater, a glass of wine, and a Harlequin novel. When you've worked up the courage (and are just about ready to set the book aflame in disgust), grab a fresh razor and pink shaving cream and just go to town. You are very welcome.

 

that is hilarious... that made me laugh out loud.  

Josh

2008-01-03 10:49 AM
in reply to: #1130684

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

I had my first swim workout in months last night and after just 400 meters my form fell apart. I don't have a coach and have always trained on my own, so I don't really know the first thing about swim drills and such. The biggest challenge for me is keeping my legs from sinking, and I know that you want your body to glide at the top of the water. Any tips or drills that will help me with that? Lisa

One easy thing is to keep your head down. Don't look ahead, look straight down at the bottom of the pool.

The harder thing is to work on hip rotation. It's a multi step process.

Start by working on kicking on your side. Put on some fins, rotate your body to the right. Extend your left arm and hold your right hand at your side. Keep your head pointed down looking at the bottom of the pool. Kick small with straight legs at first. Swim a length on your left, then do the next length on your right side. Remember to keep your head pointed down and your body pointed at the wall. When you need to breath, rotate your body up and breathe. Don't panic here, as it will be a little weird at first. Just rotate until you can get your face out of the water.

After that you can work on the Shark Fin drill. Same position as side kicking, but take the elbow of your top or trailing arm up to the sky until it forms a shark fin (a triangle). Slide it back down, take a breath or two, and repeat.

From there, you can extend the Shark Fin drill to some single rotations. When you reach the pinacle of the Shark Fin, rotate your hips and turn your body to the other side. Instead of bringing the shark fin down, slide it forward and slice the water with your hand. Keep your palm pointed away from your body.

That should be a good start.

You can check out www.triswimcoach.com for a 4 workout process on learning how to do this. I did it and it worked wonders.

2008-01-03 10:50 AM
in reply to: #1130693

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

sunmonkey72 - 2008-01-03 10:35 AM I've been shaving my legs for years. For your first time I suggest filling the tub with hot water, put a few candles around, scented oil in the bathwater, a glass of wine, and a Harlequin novel. When you've worked up the courage (and are just about ready to set the book aflame in disgust), grab a fresh razor and pink shaving cream and just go to town. You are very welcome.

Add Yanni - Live at the Acropolis and you described my first time almost exactly. No, not really. I have pictures in my Photo Album to commemorate the first time. Nothing so fancy.

2008-01-03 10:56 AM
in reply to: #1130722

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

I'm not sure what to expect from a masters group. Do I get one-on-one training and advice from someone, or is it a group effort? My challenge is being able to meet up for group workouts (of any kind--running, biking, swimming) because I have a 4 year-old daughter and a husband who often doesn't come home until 6:30. I can't afford to hire a swim coach, either.

A lot of it depends on the coach. Here's how our group works. We meet Tuesday and Thursdays at Lifetime at 530am. We are grouped into lanes based on speed and distance. There are people there who are just learning, and then there are studs that can swim like a fish.

We have set workouts that we follow and our coach provides any kind of specific guidance on the sets. If it's something that requires timing, he sends us off in waves and clocks us.

As far as advice and teaching, he really just gives me little pointers to work on. Hand position during my pull, getting my elbows higher, etc. Those who are newer and need more help will get a lot more 1-1 time.

It's only 34 bucks per month, which is not a bad deal. I feel your pain on difficulty in having the time though. We both train and have two kids, so only 1 of us can do it. Luckily it's early enough that I can back home in time before my wife has to head to work.

Do you have a gym membership? They may have a masters program or some individual coaching. Even a single session can go a long way.

2008-01-03 11:01 AM
in reply to: #1130747

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
Thanks, Andy. I will try this. I know I need more structure during my swims. I am still at the point where I think too much during my swims, and I suspect that concentrating on one "thing" will help me relax.

Have you ever used Total Immersion techinque? I have the DVD, but haven't applied it much. No one to blame but myself.

apw0397 - 2008-01-03 10:49 AM

One easy thing is to keep your head down. Don't look ahead, look straight down at the bottom of the pool.

The harder thing is to work on hip rotation. It's a multi step process.

Start by working on kicking on your side. Put on some fins, rotate your body to the right. Extend your left arm and hold your right hand at your side. Keep your head pointed down looking at the bottom of the pool. Kick small with straight legs at first. Swim a length on your left, then do the next length on your right side. Remember to keep your head pointed down and your body pointed at the wall. When you need to breath, rotate your body up and breathe. Don't panic here, as it will be a little weird at first. Just rotate until you can get your face out of the water.

After that you can work on the Shark Fin drill. Same position as side kicking, but take the elbow of your top or trailing arm up to the sky until it forms a shark fin (a triangle). Slide it back down, take a breath or two, and repeat.

From there, you can extend the Shark Fin drill to some single rotations. When you reach the pinacle of the Shark Fin, rotate your hips and turn your body to the other side. Instead of bringing the shark fin down, slide it forward and slice the water with your hand. Keep your palm pointed away from your body.

That should be a good start.

You can check out www.triswimcoach.com for a 4 workout process on learning how to do this. I did it and it worked wonders.



2008-01-03 11:12 AM
in reply to: #1130781

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

Thanks, Andy. I will try this. I know I need more structure during my swims. I am still at the point where I think too much during my swims, and I suspect that concentrating on one "thing" will help me relax. Have you ever used Total Immersion techinque? I have the DVD, but haven't applied it much. No one to blame but myself.

I've heard good things about TI. Our coach uses a lot of their fundamentals.

You should definitely only try to work on one thing at a time. Swimming is the most difficult discipline to master in triathlon. It's the only one that you can't improve on by just going faster in practice.

Honestly, and my coach would probably shoot me if he knew I said this, swimming is the part that I work on the least as I think it's the least important. I'm not saying you shouldn't practice it. Don't get me wrong there. But there's not that much difference between someone that swims 4:30 for 300 meters and 7:30 for 300 meters. And it's the area where the improvements show up the least.

Let's take your typical 300 meter swim/12 mile ride/3.1 mile run sprint tri. Compare athletes who run and bike the same, but one swims a lot faster. Let's say they can both run 10 minutes per mile and ride 15 mph. That works out to 1:26:30 for the slow swimmer and 1:23:30 for the fast swimmer all things being equal.

Now, say the fast swimmer improves their swim to 4:00 per 300 meters (an improvment of over 10%) and maintains their bike and run, but the slow swimmer works on the bike and gets 1.2 miles per hour (7.5% improvement) faster, and maintains the swim and run. The new times are 1:23:00 for the fast swimmer and 1:22:56 for the slow swimmer.

It all goes to show that the biggest gains you can make are on the bike, followed by the run, and then the swim. You should still work the swim and try to improve it, but focus more on the bike and run. That's where you will see success.



Edited by apw0397 2008-01-03 11:14 AM
2008-01-03 11:51 AM
in reply to: #1102477

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
You are wise.
2008-01-03 11:52 AM
in reply to: #1130693

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED
I knew this would come back to bite me - You guys are right - Where else can you talk about this .
2008-01-03 11:53 AM
in reply to: #1130911

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Subject: RE: apw0397's group - CLOSED

sunmonkey72 - 2008-01-03 11:51 AM You are wise.

Just a numbers geek. But I like wise better. You can say it as much as you want.

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