Timberman - Half Iron : Official Thread (Page 30)

Holy cr*p Brownie..the only thing missing from that race report is that you were circled by sharks during the swim and chased by a pack of wild dogs on the run!

And that the "cute town" was called Twin Peaks!

Way to hang in there and deal with the adversity, you had a great race all considered and I hope you're enjoying sitting on your butt today. I'd say you deserve it!

Weekend in NY was great for training, finally some relief from July's heat. Every cyclist in the Tri State area was out on the road it seemed. Man I hope it rains up in NH to cool Lake Winnicantspelltherest down!

Cheers,
S

Nice work Brownie!  You're getting faster and faster these past few months at a pretty noticeable clip.  I also noticed you are now M30-34 so I'll be looking for you at the swim start at Timberman.  Mind if I draft off you? haha

seriously, nice work man.  solid run off the bike

Yesterday's temperature at Lake Winnicantspelltherest was 75 degrees. It will be a wetsuit swim and a sunny day around 78 degrees at its peak. Can you picture it? Then it can happen.

Went and did a relaxed, recon ride of this weekend's sprint triathlon.  It's going to be a REDLINE fest.

It probably shouldn't, but it annoys me when people think any distance triathlon is easy. If it's a long tri, it's hard because it's long. If it's a short tri, it's hard because it's as fast as you can go.
It's as hard as you make it. Yeah, I could make a sprint triathlon easy, but that's not what I'm there for.  Anyway, that's a different story for another time.

Peace.

Thanks Jay!  Running has been the biggest improvement for me.  I recently got myself a coach and he's had me doing speedwork and harder 30-40 minute runs, I think I was stuck in marathon training/LSD training mode for far too long and my legs are responding to harder efforts.  Ditto with the bike training, he absolutely annihilates me 3 times a week with brutally hard sessions, I can't wait to see what I'm capable of when my legs aren't shot from hard training. 

Feel free to draft all you like, I don't kick at all either so no risk of getting a heel to the jaw, which never feels good!  I'm gonna be pissed when I see you motoring off on the bike though!

We need EVERYONE chanting this mantra the next 20 days: '75 degrees, 75 degrees'...isn't there something about the power of group thinking?  Let's hope so, 2K without a wetsuit is NOT the way I want to start the day!

We talked about this a few weeks ago but you're absolutely right, just because it's a shorter race doesn't mean it won't hurt, or is 'easier'.  I remember a thread on the main forum from last year, when I was just getting into training, that discussed a marathon vs. half ironman and which 'hurt' more.  I was shocked to see people saying that the marathon hurt way more, and also hurt way more than an ironman.  I still haven't done any of those three, but going off of my 5K/10K/half mary/sprint/OLY experience the shorter the distance just means the harder the effort...I see stars at the end of a 5K, that doesn't happen at the end of a half marathon or an OLY. 

It definitely bothers me when I tell someone I did a sprint, then tell them the distances, then hear 'oh, that's not too bad...I could do that'.  Yeah, but could you do it in a way that has you completely redlined for an hour (+) and run just under your open 5K pace for the run?  And I don't consider that boasting or arrogant, I consider it fact: just becasue the distance itself isn't a challenge doesn't mean the race isn't a challenge.

Someone on BT, I can't remember who, has a quote from (I think) Dave Scott as their sig and I absolutely LOVE it: 'It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster'.  SO TRUE!

OK...the bike news.

In 4-6 weeks I will be the proud owner of a black and white GURU Magis, full-carbon triathlon steed.
If you want the story of how that came to be you'll need to read my blog post. I'll spare you the details here.

www.trisam2.blogspot.com

Peace,
~Sam

If it works, here is an attachment with an advertisement for my Litespeed.

Do you know of anyone looking for a room to stay in for Timberman 2010?  I have an extra room at the Birch Knoll Motel, which is about 5 miles from the race site.  I booked two rooms, but my friend just backed out.  I'll be stuck with one night's cost if I can't find someone who wants it in the next few days.

http://www.birchknollmotel.com/accommodations.htm

Thanks for any help you can offer!

Wow.  What a day; and still an incredible performance.  Way to go....hope you heal up quickly.

You know what they say ... there are two kinds of bicyclists: those who have crashed, and those who will crash.  (welcome to the club.)

Hello All ...

I haven't been very active in a while; my July was a bit hectic.  Missed a bunch of training sessions (family activities and was in a *funk* for a few weeks), but back on track (more or less) over the last two weeks.

As Sam put it "the hay is in the barn"; I think that sums up where we are relative to race day.

Sounds like Jackie and Brownie are nursing some injuries; here's to getting those worked out and healed quickly.

I did manage a 55 mi ride this Sunday, and 2 hr run today ... so I've hit my 3-week-out long sessions.  Overall I feel pretty good about 8/22 (hoping for wetsuit swim).

Train safe  

Hello!  First post! Sam, thanks for creating this thread and making it sticky.

Just thought I would chime in on the bike course.  I rode it yesterday.  Weather was just about perfect, but hopefully it will be a bit cooler in 3 weeks.  The hill at mile 10ish is brutal - I was in the easiest gear spinning like a hamster, but still had to stand to get to the top.  I actually thought I had a flat - it just felt like I wasn't moving!  Turn right down Leavitt is very fast downhill onto Rt. 106.  Once on 106, I finally felt like I could get into a rythem.  North Village Rd. seemed to take forever.  Turn around is relatively flat.

Hooked up with a small group on the return which made coming back up 106 pretty nice.  Brown Hill Rd. is flat, but the turn up Farravelle (sp?) is another killer that I wasn't expecting.  Rest of 106 isn't bad.  Right turn up Leavitt and it's yet another long climb back to 107.  Coming down the giant hill (mile 10ish going out) is very fast and a bit rough - I'm not one for tapping the brakes, but I did here.  What surprised me was the difficulty of the rolling hills back to Ellacoya.  They just never seemed to end.

I'm really glad I did the ride.  It's harder than I expected.  To put things into perspective, this is only my 4th tri with 2 sprints and 1 oly under my belt.  I've trained probably just barely enough to finish the HIM, but certainly not enough to score well like most of you.  This was a bit humbling for me.  I have my work cut out for me between now and then!

Any help w/ nutrition would be greatly appreciated.

RAD70-

Welcome and thanks for the bike course recon report. What does "rough" road mean on the descent? How extensive is the "roughness"? I just read a race report from last year and the guy crashed his bike around mile 48, which sounds like the bottom of "the hill".

As far as nutrition...boy that is always such a tough question for me to answer for other people.
Here's an answer you aren't going to like, but it actually works pretty well AND I'm not trying to be a smarta##. Eat when you are hungry and drink when you are thirsty.
I know there are a great number of people who will debate that philosophy and I won't fight them on it because if you can claim that "your plan" is the "best"...then it actually is.
Having said that I need to tell you I'm a long time GU freak.
GU makes a great electrolyte drink: GU Brew, they make GU Chomps (think Gummy Bear consistency but bigger and in cube-like form), and of course a HUGE variety of flavors and functions of GU gels.
NOW, having said THAT, we will be offered Powerbar brand items on the course, so familiarize yourself with those items and try them (if you have not already).
Clif Bar is another one of my favorites...but it's going to come back to what works for you.
This is just one man's answer. There are a wide variety of opinions on this particular subject, so good luck.

Peace.

Hey RAD70, welcome to the group!  Just to add to what Sam mentioned: there's only a few weeks of prep left but familiarize yourself with the on-course nutrtion that's being offered.  Here's the list (from the Timberman website - one note: I know the Ironman events have switched to the new Powerbar Perform drink, I'm not sure if they'll still be offering Gatorade Endurance at Timberman but this is what they're showing...hopefully that's the case, GE is all I've been training with!):

Aid stations vary slightly from year to year but the general offerings are below. There will be 4 strategically placed aid stations along the bike course offering:
Gatorade Endurance formula
Water
Powerbars
PowerGels
Bananas

There will be aid stations every mile on the run course offering:
Gatorade Endurance Formula
Water
PowerBars
PowerGel Energy Gels
Fruit
Defizzed cola

Edited by Brownie28 2010-08-02 10:06 PM

Brownie!

Holy crap, that is a crazy race report! 

At least you know Timberman will go smoothly for you because you got all that crap out of the way.  Right?

Cheers,

Mandy

UGH.  Please be wetsuit legal.  Please be wetsuit legal.

AND I am with you 100% - it annoys the crap out of me when people say, "Oh, that isn't too bad."  Or "well at least it is just a sprint, so it is easy."  Most of the people who say that aren't doing it and have no idea.  It is all about either about using your energy wisely or going all out, depending on the distance, the race, and your goals.

Hey RAD 70-

I know the rough pavement you are talking about on the downhill - it changes to pretty good pavement at some point I think I remember?  I am hoping with the road closed we can move out away from the shoulder where it will be better.

Nutrition.  I plan on taking most of it in on the bike. 

I have a loose plan to take solid food in on the bike (by that I mean cliff bars or something similar) about every hour for the first 2 hours, switching to GU for the last hour so I don't puke on the run (I will be on the bike between 3-3:30 - I was on for 3:30 in my scout with a few stops for traffic and head scratching).  This has worked for me in long rides so I am sticking with it. 

I ate one Cliff bar when I biked the course and ran a loop of the course and I needed more.

Hydrate (I use EFS and NUUN but Brownie's point is good about using what is on the course) as needed - I don't have a plan on that, I am pretty good at keeping tabs on that.  But I have an aerodrink and a bottle down below and will refill on the bike at the bottle exchange.

On the run, I am bringing 2 GUs, but will probably only use one.  If I get that feeling I need it, I will have it with me.  Also I will have a Nathan hand bottle for the first loop with NUUN in it that I am going to throw at my family (ha) at the turn around.

Hope this helps.  If anyone who has done this before thinks my plan sounds disastrous, please tell me now!

Cheers,

Mandy

Hi Mandy,

To be honest, I was so focused on not crashing, I don't recall when the road smoothed out, but it does at some point.  My front fork was chattering like crazy, hence the poor road condition report.

Most, if not all of you, likely have a lot more base miles than I do so this whole ride may be a walk in the park for you.  I just didn't want to sugar coat it for those of us in less than peak shape.  It took me 3:20 on my scout with a couple of missed turns.

Thanks for all the nutrition info.  I need to go out and try some of this stuff.

Yeah, I do remember that crappy hill, I was psyched to be going down but had to touch the brakes because of crappy pavement....ALSO - I just wanted to say that it won't be a walk in the park for me!! You kidding?  70.3 shouldn't be a walk in the park for anyone! ha If I get out of the Lake without drowning, it is going to be a success for me! ha

If you did that route with traffic in 3:20, you are going to be in fine shape for the race....  Don't kill it on those hills, just get up the cussid things and save your beans for the 13.2....Trust in your training, you are going to do awesome....No more undercutting the hard work you put in and comparing your training with others....the doubt demons will creep in then, and you worked too hard for that.

Many folks in this forum are amazing athletes with some distance experience who are solid contenders for AG prizes....I am a solid back of mid-packer shooting for < 7hrs and a cold beer afterwords.

HOLY CRAP!  It is coming up!  COLD RAIN here today, should cool that lake off so we can wear wetsuits!!!

Mandy

Well I haven't been overly motivated this year, but I think I've found my goal. Beat Mandy back to get that cold beer!!!

Ahhhh...screw the race...how about just grabbing some lawn chairs and a cooler full of beer and plopping ourselves at the top of that long hill and watch everyone else suffer?

Brownie - wow on the race report.

Sam - I'm going to disagree with your "eat when hungry, drink when thirsty." Personally, I think that's too late. The bike is when you'll fuel up for the day so you gotta take stuff in before you get to the hunger point. My personal preference is to take in some solid food - clif bar or a PB&J - within the first few miles on the bike. Then keep up with Gu's and sports drink so I'm taking in about 300 cal/hr. On the run, a Gu every 30-40 minutes, in addition to the sports drink at the aid stations.

Does anyone know where the aid stations will be?

Here's coach Gordo's tips in Half IM Pacing:
http://www.coachgordo.com/gtips/race_strategy/pacing_your_first_hal...

And something on nutrition...albeit for a full IM:
http://www.coachgordo.com/gtips/nutrition_body_composition/ironman_...

Re: Nutrition

Bike:
Start with 3 bottles. 
2 bottles - Sustained energy (350 cals per bottle) - 700 calories
1 bottle - Gatorade - 150ish calories

Bottles will be frozen overnight.  I will toss the first bottle of Sustained Energy after drinking it in the first 30-40 minutes of the bike and pick up water at the next aid station.

I'll then sip on the other two bottles that have calories and add in the water as needed depending on how much I'm sweating.  May take 1 to 2 more bottle of water or gatorade off the course depending on how I feel.
I'll also carry 2 Gus but probably only take one at the very end of the bike just so I don't need to take on in T2 or immediately upon starting my run.


Side note:
Last year at Timberman I missed the first aid station and only started with one bottle on the bike (planned on 2 but there was a big delay to the start and ended up bringing the other one to the beach to sip on).  Ended up dehydrated and without water for a chunk of the bike and then trying to play catch up.  I'd rather carry more and toss one.  The extra weight doesn't bother me.  I train with 3 bottles most times even if I never touch the 3rd bottle. 

just my approach....have to do what makes you feel comfortable


edit:  I don't do a huge breakfast and usually just eat a bar or two depending on how I feel before the race and sip on gatorade.  I do 95% of my morning workouts on an empty stomach and I'm used to not having a lot before I start working out.  It's just the way I do it but I know some people eat quite a bit more beforehand.

Edited by acumenjay 2010-08-03 8:48 AM

runnerx- Regarding nutrition...that's cool. In fact I'd be disappointed if everyone agreed with me on that. My explanation clearly was very simplified. I generally take in any "heavy stuff" (Clif Bar, what-have-you) about 1/2 way through the bike and other items as neeed.
Last year during the Steelhead, IM70.3 I took 1-2 Powergels (accidently left my GU in T1) and consumed my fluids. On the run I took in fluids and maybe 1-2 gels again and I was good to go.
On the other hand, I've done 1/2IM events where I've taken in 1.5 Clif Bars on the bike.
Whatever works for you. I think it's important to try out different theories and sort it out for yourself. The only "winning" formula is your own (even if you adopted it from somebody else).

As far as the "walk in the park" comment...

Let's just face it. Regardless of ability level, the only walks in the park by the athletes at Timberman will be into registration and transition. Then we'll all be left with a hobble OUT of the park.

Wally - the race is on! 

Yeah, I think Sam's point at the start is what it all comes down to: we can provide our nutrition ideas, but it's not what would work for anyone else.  There are general guidelines out there (i.e. 300-400 cals an hour as a baseline, which I've seen alot of times) but they're just that: general guidelines.  Me, I sweat a TON so I need more sodium than most; and too much sugary drink without much water (i.e. what it looks like Jay's plan calls for) doesn't give me enough water replacement and I cramp BAD.

My plan: 
I have one of those Aquacells by PD; I fill the big bottle with Gatorade Endurance (GE), 3 scoops, and the small bottle with water.  I also have a bottle on my downtube filled with water, a small bento box filled with sodium tablets and two Gu's (espresso love for the caffeine), and in my back pocket I have three Clif Shot Bloks (Margarita for extra sodium).

The plan: nothing but water for 15-20 minutes on the bike, to let the body settle down after the swim; then:
-- 2 blocks (1/3rd of the full package) every 20 minutes (200 cals an hour)
--Sips of GE when I feel like it but goal is to be done with it halfway through the bike, fill up then finish on the way back (100 cals an hour)
--One Gu about 45 minutes in, the second about 1:45 in so it's all settled by the time I'm off the bike (75 cals an hour)
--sodium intake of 2-3 caps an hour, more if it's very hot out (and the water intake will increase as well depending on the heat)

That gets me to ~375 cals an hour on the bike.  Two more Gu's for the run--one at about mile 4, the other at 8-9--and the rest will be on-course nutrition (I already can't WAIT for the cola, I don't think anything tastes better on long, hot day's than cola!).  But to me, for a HIM run your overall nutrition plan has either worked or it hasn't based on what you took in on the bike, there's no 'making up' for it on the run because by that point you're already on the road to bonking, GI distress or a great race. 

Anyway, that's the plan--I've been tweaking it the past few months and at times I've felt awesome, bloated, cramped, weak...it's just a matter of learning what your body wants and needs for the distance.

Thanks to all for sharing your nutrition strategy - it's very helpful!  How does the whole water bottle thing work at the aid station?  My water bottles weren't exactly cheap so I wasn't planning on tossing them in exchange for fuel at an aid station.  Do you stop at the bike aid station, just grab a bottle and refill your aero drink?

I kinda like the PBJ idea, just not sure I can eat a sandwich and pedal at the same time LOL.