Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!! (Page 31)

tri808 - 2010-04-29 4:06 AM I have heard the shower scrunchie thing...but I'm not sure I'm understanding it.  You shove it halfway into the refill hole?  So it prevents splashing up...you can shove the tip of a bottle in the scrunchie and refill...but you still have half of this scrunchie sticking out the top of your bottle?  I should take a picture of what I'm thinking when I have time.

RogerWilco - 2010-04-29 1:24 AM

I have a Polar s725x. It has a feature that tells you your OwnIndex (Polar's word for VO2max ). You enter your sex, age, weight, height, exercise level into the watch and lay down for 2-3 minutes with HRM strap. I guess your watch is similar to this. It looks at your resting heart rate and compares it to some statistical data stored in the watch (these parts are my guess), and gives you a number. The number is not accurate of course, it just depends on the statistics. Since heart rate can change significantly among individuals it does not mean much. However, you may "measure" your VO2max with some length of time each time (say 1 month) and compare the values among themselves and check for improvement.

Of course there are always better and more accurate ways to measure fitness, like LT tests, TTs, etc.

robingray_260 - 2010-04-29 4:08 PM

So, I have a short 5k race this weekend and  I need to do an LT test now that I have a HRM.  Can I use the race for this? It is a fairly flat course and it will probably take me around 30 minutes. How different would be doing a LT test during a race vs. on a treadmill or other flat course.  It sure would be nice to kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone! Thx

robingray_260 - 2010-04-29 9:08 AM

So, I have a short 5k race this weekend and  I need to do an LT test now that I have a HRM.  Can I use the race for this? It is a fairly flat course and it will probably take me around 30 minutes. How different would be doing a LT test during a race vs. on a treadmill or other flat course.  It sure would be nice to kill 2 birds w/ 1 stone! Thx

Thomasski - 2010-04-29 11:24 AM

So I have been trying to figure out what the LT test and all that stuff is. I have been thinking about training with a hrm but I really dont care for another gizmo. I honestly dont even run with a watch. I only use my cycling computer for my cadence and when it is time to turn around. I know if I posted this in tri talk they would crucify me for not even wearing a watch so I will ask THE MENTOR david.

newbz - 2010-04-29 5:35 PM i dont even own a watch

tri808 - 2010-04-29 2:28 PM

Also...just wanted to mention that the swimming interval workouts suggested by David and others are showing very quick results. I have to admit...they make you feel like swimming was invented by Satan himself...but the dividends are huge.

newbz - 2010-04-29 9:27 PM you mean it wasn't???!?!?!?! LIES!

RogerWilco - 2010-04-30 4:46 AM

OK, time for another swimming question. I've been frustrated with my swimming times for some time now. But I decided a change of attitude should be in order, otherwise I will not get anywhere. Currently I cannot even finish my sets when I check my watch and see I cannot realize my goals.

So, starting with next week I'm planning to do all the sets whether or not I do finish them on time. I've also been reading about swimming sessions of people and am ready for a new weekly plan. I am going to the pool 3 times a week (every once in a while 4 times) for 60-70 minutes. What should I do each time as my main set? I've been doing these each time for some time now:

1) 15-20x100

2) 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 400, 300, 200, 100

3) 3x1000

I've read that I must really push myself to get better at swimming but I feel like I have only one speed. Medium, fast they are all the same after 50 meters. Should I do some 25 or 50 m sets? Also what amount of rest is better for each of the sets?

Currently I'm stuck at 1:50-1:55 pace for 100 meters. I know form is VERY important but as I said before there is noone to help correct my form at the pool and I figure if I push myself maybe form will follow too (my form is not too bad).

Sorry, it's been long winded. I hope it's clear.

carlwithac - 2010-04-30 3:29 PM  
What is your swimming background?  How many yards/meters do you typically swim for your 60-70min sessions?

On technique, many people spend lots of time doing drills early on in the season before they really focus on getting faster.  But drills can also be utilized during your get faster phase without taking up too much time.  Incorporating a warm up of 500 total yards of solid drills can go a long way.  This can be scaled back as you feel necessary.  http://www.goswim.tvhas amazing drill videos for all strokes.  I've used them countless times.

You mentioned that your stroke is "not that bad".  For many people what they need is really to swim more.  When you swim more, either more frequently or longer duration, you feel more comfortable in the water, which is sometimes half the battle.

Swimming short sets of intervals and long sets at a slow pace both have merits IMO.  It sounds like you will benefit mentally from finishing some long swim workouts.  For me it feels like a personal accomplishment when I do a huge number of yards.  Keep in mind though that slow pace also requires you to practice good technique.  On the other hand, your body isn't going to let you swim fast intervals all day long even if you want to.  Alter the duration of your workouts to take into account the intensity of your intervals.  But always make your intervals count.  Start out with something like 10x100s on a fast interval with very little rest and then rest or swim for recovery after and you will feel fine.

RogerWilco - 2010-04-30 7:55 AM

My swimming background:

I've been an open water swimmer all my life, never caring about speed. I've also been a free-diver and other underwater sports-nut. So I am very used to fins, sea, etc. Whenever I'm at the seaside for a holiday I swim 2 or 3 km's straight, that has been the way for me for 20 years (I'm 39). But as I said I have never timed myself swim up till last year. Last year I did my first tri (Oly) without any preparation and this year for the first time I'm training for it. My goal for 1500 is 25 minutes for this year, my A race is at October.

For a typical workout I do between 2500-3500 meters. After a warm-up, I do some drills (typically about 300 meters) and then one of the main sets I wrote above.

I really suspect that I have to mentally toughen up some and continue to do what I do as my main sets and improvements will come. Though, I have one concern: I'm using too many strokes per 25 meter (typically 21-22). Next week, I will also get recorded again and post it here and TT for your comments.

RogerWilco - 2010-04-30 4:46 AM

So, starting with next week I'm planning to do all the sets whether or not I do finish them on time. I've also been reading about swimming sessions of people and am ready for a new weekly plan. I am going to the pool 3 times a week (every once in a while 4 times) for 60-70 minutes. What should I do each time as my main set?

tri808 - 2010-04-30 12:04 PM

I'm not the expert...but as I posted above...swimming intervals were created by Satan, but are really effective.

In other words...the way I boosted my speed was to sell my soul to the devil...lol

jgerbodegrant - 2010-04-30 10:51 AM

Good...stop worrying about the time.  I had to stop even looking at the watch, just looking at the clock for my rest times.

As far as your stroke count, try going slow and really feeling the glide.  This is important because it will give you a sense of what makes you more streamlined.  For example, when you push off the wall, you can change your body position, hand position, etc to make yourself go farther, right?  So when you take a single stroke, I want you to count to three.  This may be hard to do at first, but it helped me a ton.  Really push with your stroke hand and fire forward, straight ahead with your other hand.  Hold it for three and do the next arm.  I did this exercise, changing my hand and head position in the water to see what made me more streamlined and it helped.

For your workouts, they should vary, but sort of depends on what you are training for.  Either way, if you have the 60-70 minutes, it doesn't matter that much.  Here's some structure for you to go by.  I would still recommend getting some drills in, maybe on the fourth day.  For now, don't focus on how long it takes you to do each one, because that's why you're getting frustrated.  Just work on perceived effort.  I agree with the Tania's post above, but you may want to hold off until you're happy with where you are at.  Seriously...don't even look at your watch,don't even bring it to the pool.  It will do you absolutely no good to try to make time and lose all your form.  Find a clock in the room and just look at how much time you are supposed to be resting.

Day One:

Warmup: 2 x (100swim / 100kick / 100 pull) - continuous
Main Set:  8 x 200 w/20 second rest after each - hold every 200 evenly at 70% concentrating on minimizing your stroke count throughout the set.
Cool down:  300 pull

Day Two:

Warmup:  600 easy swim, holding proper form and getting your heart rate up.
Main Set:  3 x 500 loco w/ 30 second rest after each
                  (loco = 1 length easy/1 length fast, 2 easy/2 fast, 3 easy/3 fast, 4 easy/4fast = 20 lengths or 500m)
Cool Down:  4 x 75 easy w/10s rest after each

Day Three:

Warmup:  400 swim/200 kick/200 pull
Main Set:  1200 swim / 800 swim w/ 60 seconds rest between the two
Cool down: 4 x 50 easy w/ 10 sr

Oh, and one more thing.  If you do a new video, take one from the side and one looking down the length of the pool also.

jgerbodegrant - 2010-04-30 10:51 AM

The loco set sounds interesting I will have to try it!