Baowolf's Winter training is FUN group..no really it is!! (OPEN) (Page 37)

Steve, today I went back over your posts regarding paces I should run Saturday. I've said it before but your knowledge astounds me. Thank you, thank you for the info! I printed out a standard pace bracelet and then wrote your paces next to the miles. I'm going to really attempt your paces. The weather has really changed tho and now it looks like the whole race will be in the rain. Don't know how I feel about that. For some reason, I kinda thought we might have rain for this race so I've tested my clothes and socks to find out what works best for me. I'm slightly excited about the rain - as long as it's not monsoon-like. But dang, I hate the evil white lines when it rains.

After you accept the coming and going of aches and pains during your taper.... then you get to worry about the weather. I find that I work hard enough when in a race that I burn off the rain without my core temperature dropping. It will depend on how cold the air is and how hard the rain is. A little harassment drizzle can be fine, but heavy rain with puddles can be bad... don't step in puddles if you can help it, you never know how deep they are, or be really careful. Alternatively you can have a lite waterproof shell that you can just tie around your waist if need be. Remember that gels will be harder to open when they are wet... I know not a big deal, but just sayin, have a plan. (I just use my teeth if I have to).

Most important for a rainy marathon, is to have dry clothes waiting for you, rain gear to come back and get some food after the race if you want to and know how far away the car is before you sit down. Once you stop running your body temp will drop fast, you need to be in dry clothes with the heater blasting in your car within about 10 to 15 minutes or things can get borderline hypothermic. Have your shirpa be prepared to get you warm (thermos of hot coco, or whatever for you to look forward at the finish line, maybe some chicken soup.

Lots of truth in that post. 40 degrees in pouring rain, stepped in a puddle that turned out to be more, 2nd degree sprain, limping through last 3 miles. Coldest I have ever been including skiing in sub zero. Have never been so glad to get into dry clothes in my life. Praying to find my car quickly. Yes was a few years ago. Memories!

Yea, it's funny how we can remember those hellish times so clearly. Well I don't think I'll be freezing since temps will be in the 70s but still plan on hubby having me dry clothes there.

Jimmy, just in case you check in before the race, have fun and will be thinking about you on Saturday!

Hi everyone! I know its been a very long time since I've checked in. It appears that Pam is getting ready for a mary soon...and Dennis and Mitzi have found each other in CT. Hope all is well with everyone.

I'm still doing what I said I was going to do. I'm really getting into lifting and cardio...but doing it at a pace I enjoy. I joined a 24 hour gym and have been going on work days before work so I don't get in the way of Kiley's school or kids practices. I've done a pretty remarkable recomp of my body; I took before pics and when you see the after...even I'm impressed and those who know me well know that's not easy to do lol. All in all, life is excellent and I'm happy. I really hope all of you are in a similar spot!


Take care everyone

Jay, glad to hear from you. Awsome that you are finding balance. Whoop em in the gym and then kick their buts in a 5k. Feel free to check in and out as you wish. You know there is always a spot at the table for you.

Some folks at work are making noises about doing the Sacramento half mary in march. This could be fun, though I don't know how they are going to get enough training in, except for the one other person who was just hired who does ironmans and 100 mile run races.

Edited by Baowolf 2015-11-06 1:15 AM

Yay, we heard from Jay. Hey Jay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, didn't BQ today but major PR. 3rd in AG which shocked me. Successful in many, many ways; no negative self talk, worked my azz off, tried hard to make up my deficient. Now after 6 hours of analyzing, do think I screwed up on water intake. Temp was 72 when we started and humid, humid, humid. But actually thrilled with results and have no angst. More later. Steve, I love you! Thanks for your advice.

Now to stalk...er track Jimmy. He has ridiculously hot weather too.

He is off the bike. Go Jimmy!!!! Total 112 mi 8:16:55 10:11:30 13.52 mi/h 68 1705 2306

Edited by Pink Socks 2015-11-07 5:20 PM

Look at Jimmy go! Into the run at 11.6 miles at 13:08 for the race!

11.6 mi 2.6 mi 35:46 13:08:43 13:45/mi

Well I finished! I didn't make the 17 hour cutoff, but I have a shirt and medal that say I finished :-).

I'll get a race report up sometime, the heat and humidity killed me on the bike.

Yay Pam way to go... killing me waiting to hear the details and actual finish time.

Jimmy, I am heartbroken that you didn't make the cutoff, how close were you, but proud that you finished, you are an ironman. I am sure you learned a lot for your next go. I heard a presentation from one of the original Ironman competitors and he said his fastest Ironman was 24 hours.... So that puts you 6 or 7 hours faster than his best. Please share all the details so we call all learn from your race. I know that the humidity in Texas cost me an hour ish on the race and I had 65 cups of ice down my shirt, stayed wet for the entire race.

Looking at your race times compared to your fitness the swim was spot on, you made the bike cutoff and had 6:42:00 ish to finish the marathon at a 16:00 mpm pace available for the run. I thought that would be enough time 8(. What happened on the run? It must have not been pretty.

Edited by Baowolf 2015-11-08 3:02 PM

Wooohoo, Pam! Way to go. I'll confess I just stalked your race time/splits, and it looks like you nailed it! Won't be a spoiler and leave it to you to share the details. 3rd in AG is a totally awesome reward for the work you put in.

Jimmy, congrats on crossing the line, and more importantly everything that led up to that!

Spectacular weather here today so got in a little bike ride this afternoon. And off topic, but if you ever get a chance to see Straight No Chaser, do it!! Acapella group that started as college buddies at Indiana University. Put on the best concert I've ever experienced.

Have a great week!

So here's how my day went yesterday.

The swim was non-wetsuit legal, but I decided to wear my wetsuit anyway since my goal was just to finish the race. The course was two laps, with a short jog between the laps. The water was great, and the swim went really well. The only exception being getting in and out of the water, those waves and sand bar made it too shallow to swim but really hard to walk.

The bike started out perfect and the first 70 miles went pretty much exactly to plan. It was really hot and sunny but it was tolerable. I spent almost the entire time in the aero bars. But then I hit a road where it had clearly rained recently and I was getting cooked by the sun and I couldn't breathe because of the humidity. It ended up making me sick and I wasn't able to eat or drink anything from about mile 85 on. Thankfully I got hit by some rain about mile 95, and it helped me keep my core temp down a little bit.

At mile 100 I was certain that I was going to call it quits. I had made the cutoff by 20 minutes and my goal was to simply get back to the transition under my own power and call it a day. The headwinds and loneliness of the last 10 miles had pretty much finished me off. Once I finally made it to the transition (10 minutes before the bike cutoff) the volunteer helped me get my dry socks on and changed my shoes. We talked for a few minutes and after sitting for a couple of minutes I actually started to feel a little better and I decided that I was going to see how far I could walk in the remaining time. I talked to my family and told them I was just going to walk, but I had never quit anything before so why start now.

The first 3 miles of the run, I walked while I tried to get some calories to sit in my stomach. I was actually able to run some, and I made pretty good time for the first half (somehow). Every water stop I was pouring ice water on myself and wetting a sponge to try to keep my temp down. The second lap I could only walk, until the very end where I obviously had to run to look good :-). The entire run I was hardly able to eat anything, I'm still not sure how I was physically capable of finishing without nutrients for so long, but I survived!

I have never pushed myself so far mentally, there were at least 3 occasions where I was certain that I was going to call it quits. But I didn't. A lot to do with my friends, family and the awesome volunteer in the transition.

My goal was to finish, and I did. Sure, I would've rather it been 10 minutes sooner so that I would have an official time, but I still got to cross the finish line.

Jimmy, I'm so sorry about the cutoff but Dude, you still did it!!!!! I was really thinking about you so much yesterday because I knew how hot it was for me and I knew PCB was going to be hotter. Let us know what all happened. (Oh wait, you posted as I was typing up my long dissertation. Just read it. Man, you rock!)

Steve, I've analyzed the snot out of my race and came up with two reasons why I didn't make it. Lack of pace runs during training and probably didn't drink enough. It was 72 at the start and only got warmer. And it was humid. I was ahead of pace for about 13 miles and considered pulling back but I did a gut check and felt ok. But then around mile 15ish, I was putting in the effort but was getting very diminished returns. And I got so thirsty. Although I had been drinking at every aid station (powerade unless I had just taken a gel, then water), maybe I need to have been taking 3 or 4 cups versus two or gulp, one. I was so focused on not wasting time, I might have screwed myself. At mile 16, I popped 2 endurolyte pills. Then at mile 17, OMG major calf cramps hit. So hard it pulled me up short and thank God, I didn't say all of the cuss words that were occurring in my head because a volunteer was right there. But God, it hurt!!!!!!!!!!! I had my Advil in hand and limped to the aid station there and downed them. Grabbed a banana too. Right at that point, 4:10 pacer paced me. I decided that I could still catch her and set out.

Advil helped tremendously and I began pounding down the boardwalk. The cramps were coming up on random steps but I was still managing a good run. Good, but not enough to catch the pacer. Every aid station, I popped more endurolyte pills and hit the gels every 30 minutes. I did what you said and put my head down and swung my arms. I knew I was about 2 min back and really, really, really tried to make it. About mile 19, the calf cramps really got worse and while I had been feeling like someone was twisting my calves with pliers on every 3rd or 7th step, I had been managing a running. Now the cramps would pull me up short sometimes but I gimped along. I made up some time but around mile 22, I was 90% sure I wasn’t going to make it. Still kept going. Then at mile 23, my brain realized it wasn’t going to happen and I came to peace with it; I was very happy with my effort. Around mile 25ish, I will admit that I decided that I was not going to kill myself coming in and quit attempting the faster pace and just went to an ez run; was hoping that the cramps wouldn’t pull me up short at that pace but another one still got me right around mile 26. A soldier came and shook my hand and hugged me and I wasn’t going to rush thru that. I finished at 4:18:42.

Afterwards EVERYONE was talking about the heat and humidity and how every one’s time suffered. Last year, the winner was 2:25ish and this year only one person make it under 3 hours. So I think the heat was an issue but dang, I’m from Florida so I have to shut up on that because I’m used to it. But in hindsight, I think that I didn’t drink enough (stopped one time to pee) which was stupid. Or I might have gone out a little too fast (about 9 min miles) and that did me in but if that was the case, I’m fine with it because I said I’d rather blowup than play it safe. Course I would have preferred not to blow up. ;-)

Afterwards, I couldn’t even stretch for a while due to hurting so bad. Drank, drank, drank and went back to the food tent to see if there was anything I wanted to eat. My hubby ran to me and said they had just called my name and he thought I had 3rd AG. Course I didn’t believe him but he kept insisting they called my name. So I went over to the awards area but they were on the men’s AG then. Waited and then when they finished, I went to the table. The only other person that had been running miles 19 – 26 (Everyone was walking those last miles) came up to me and said she thought that we had AG. She had 2nd and I had 3rd; damn, if I hadn’t tanked that last mile, I might have gotten 2nd. Nay, I don’t think so and I don’t care. They put us both on the podium and took our pic. So flipping cool for this old lady. So damn cool!


Edited by Pink Socks 2015-11-08 5:06 PM

Pam, I'm sure your day was very painful but it sounds like a win to me :-). Way to push through!

Thank you Jimmy but I think you are the real winner! IMFL is tough. We have been as spectators/volunteers 3 or 4 times. The swim is way tough. Way, way, way tough. The bike is long, humid, grueling, and with no breezes that far back from the beach. And then the run? All of those turns in the small neighborhoods would have me addled and confused. And the state park seems hot and completely sheltered from the breezes. You are amazing!!!!

So tell me.....was the nice man there on the Mile 9 of the bike with the cowbell saying "Good Morning, Good Morning. Have a great day!"? I love that guy. He always goes to the finish line late in the night too. He is adorable. I want to be like him when I grow up.

Carol, thank you for stalking me. It feels good to be the stalked for once versus the stalker.

Edited by Pink Socks 2015-11-08 8:07 PM

Pam is that like a 10 minute PR with 11 miles of calf cramps in hot and humid conditions underhydrated and still an AG 3rd... WOW!!! I figure those cramps must have cost you around.... 8 minutes /nod. You sooo have a BQ in you!

Jimmy, /cry, all that effort to come up 10 minutes short, but you completed the distance completely on heart. Hopefully that is the hardest thing you ever do. Next IM we will have you in better shape and maybe a few more toys if you wana do another hot race. There are some items that will cool you when wet on the bike or run more than just being wet. Did they have ice for the run to drop down the front of your shirt? That is what saved me in Texas.

I'm like a proud father watching my kids do the impossible. Tip of the hat to both of you, chocolate shakes on me.

Pam and Jimmy, way to go, you are both so inspiring!

I did it.

I went online and registered to the oly in Mont Tremblant on June 25.

I do want to do the HIM in 2017 (and maybe even the full one day, let's dream crazy here!) and this is the next logical step towards that goal.
The bike course is challenging and the swim is sometimes cold as it is early in the season and Mont Tremblant is north of the north
I hope Santa will bring me a wetsuit...

Isabella, you are so busted, you just said that you want to do an IM. The first time I told someone that it was very scary as I had no idea how I would do it, but felt that once I said it out loud I was obligated to finish it. If you allow enough time to train an IM is completely doable, but you have to put in the training. If you do not put in enough miles, the margin is too thin to compensate for problems with weather and possible issues with stomach and such. We can get you through it all though for sure. I completely recommend doing a HIM before doing an IM. You can tank your nutrition on a HIM and finish, but if you tank on IM nutrition you might be done before the finish line. Very proud of my group for daring to go long. That of course does not take away from folks going short and trying to get faster. It is all about doing what is fun and challenging for you and we will help you get to whatever that goal is.

When what you previously thought was impossible becomes no big deal, you have arrived solidly in the triathlon community.

I have been doing mostly slow base building after the IM 3 months ago, but this weekend I decided to get the led out and try out some intervals, here is the workout 800 repeats at paces 6:45, 6:35, 6:35, 6:34, 6:38 mpm. I was really happy with those times and did them on an actual track.

I am trying to not overdo anything, but my current focus is using the elasticity of the foot flex, loading and unloading the flex of your foot when you bike or run and trying to use that release of the flex on the pedal stroke and run to get relatively free momentum. Really hard to describe that and hard to focus on on the open road, but possible on the trainer.


Edited by Baowolf 2015-11-10 10:44 PM

That comment made me preen all day. Thank you Steve!!! We love you and couldn't do it without you.

Isabella is considering an IM one day. You go Girl!!!! I do hope Santa brings you a wetsuit.

Dang impressive splits Steve! My head can't even wrap around that speed.

Wanted to go for a little walk last night to get the soreness out. But before I went out, we decided to change the belt in our dryer. 2 hours later, tons of cuss words, and still having to call the repairman - well I didn't go walk but grabbed the wine instead. I'd rather run a marathon then do that.

Ok, I have two questions. Sorry to always hog the board.

I foolishily signed up for a HM this weekend (to help a friend and then she didn't sign up.) I'm still too sore. I'm willing to do everything ez like walk/run or walk only but I think the HM would set me up for injury. Drop down to 10K, 5K, or stay home? It's local.

2nd question. If I decide to do so (and right now is highly unlikely), when could I make another BQ attempt?

Congrats Pam - love that you are planning your next one! Very inspiring to watch you work your way to a PR.

Jimmy - it only gets easier from here. You did an amazing thing completing an IM! You really did it on heart as well as body.

Steve, you are so fast, and you had humble beginnings - gives me hope.

Isabella - I love my used wetsuit from wetsuitrental.com. If you call them they will ask all kinds of questions to get the right size and they sent me two to try. Just returned one. Quick, easy and they were very nice.

Doing some swimming. Don't like swimming, but love wearing my finis freestyle snorkel and going back and forth just kicking. Do't mind doing the pull bouy - it actually feels easier than swimming as I usually drag my legs. Was timed for 100m the first week of swim class and did 2:45. Yeah, it is possible to go that slow. Last week they said I did 2:11. Was happy at first but not think it was just a mistake. Sure I'm kicking a lot more (I know it's not much propulsion, but I hope it keeps my legs up) but that's a big jump. If they don't time us I'll just do it myself next week with my watch.

Need some advice:

Feel awkward about something from the swim course. The teacher offered to tape us and give feedback. This was for $80, another $20 if we wanted to have a clip of us at the end of the 8 weeks. What was emailed to me were the clips of my swimming with no commentary. The last clip the teacher talked as he walked along the pool taping me - seems I have a "dainty stroke". I expected him to watch me swim and give me feedback just as a part of the class.
For the price of two private lessons I expected him to spend some time looking at the clips and giving my detailed comments and some specific things to work on. When I said something to him during class he said that the point of the taping was to tell me what he could teach me in private lessons.
Really! I paid for him to tell me to take private lessons!
What would you do?

Mitzi

Edited by MuscleMomma 2015-11-13 8:29 PM

Pam, I would seriously not do any race of any distance within a month of your marathon. I didn't listen to that advice after a marathon and ended up with a hamstring pull. Yes I wanted to just jog it but when I was in first place I kinda wanted to win and then bam about a half mile from the end, hamstring pull, not cool. Ya I got 1st at a local 4 mile run, but had to lay off running for 6 weeks and still had twinges a year later. So volunteer or have a cold beverage at the finish line or whatever, but I would just play tourist/Sherpa for this one. For you I am concerned you would pull a calf muscle given your race. You would be fine until it went ouche, then you wouldn't be for another 2-3 months.

Walking is fine, walk a mile here and there week one, walk 2-3 milesx4 week 2, walk jog 4 miles 4x per week week 3, and then you have a solid jog 4x4 with a long of 6. At that point you can build normally with speedwork probably around week 6-8. At that point you would probably need to build for 4-8 months for another BQ attempt. Your long at that point is 6 miles, you can cheat it up a bit because of your run fitness for longs of 6, 8,10, but then go 11, 12, 7, 13, 14, 8, 15, 16, 9, 17, 18, 10, 19, 20, 12, 20, 12, 20, 17, 12, 8 race. So that looks something like a minimum of 30 weeks from first marathon to 2nd marathon to be able to hit it harder than the previous race assuming you heal well and don't over do the first moth of recover. Ya you could shave off maybe 4 weeks, but if you are shooting for a PR of 8 minutes after a PR of 10 minutes.... you need a little recover and rebuild with some more speedwork. Anyway those are my thoughts.

Mitzi, that is just plain sucky. I might ask around to see if he is a good coach and see if you have any other options. You might just have to swallow your pride and take the lessons, but he kind of sounds like a sucky coach on a professional, financial and personal level. If he is your only option, he is probably better than nothing. You could make a complaint, but I am not sure it would do you any good. No really good choices there.

Steve, thank you, thank you, thank you! My impatient side was going to get myself injured so I will heed your advice on the BQ attempt. Hubby and I were talking last night regarding our plans/goals for next year and now based on that and your advice, I will wait for Soldiers for next year to attempt a BQ. I have enough things this winter and spring to feed into the 30 week training plan you laid out. Thank you so much!

Mitzi, Girl, I’m so sorry about that guy. Steve gave you a thoughtful, mature answer. My answer is immature but I have a low azzhole tolerance – always have and always will. But I could not, would not, pay that dude any more money that I had to. He may have knowledge but to me, it seems like the people that have good knowledge dispense it regularly just by opening their mouth. This guy sounds like a blowhard with a huge ego. I have such a hang-up about jerks that I couldn’t have a coach that I didn’t respect. (That is why I love Steve so much.)

This may sound like a change of subject but it’s along the same lines. I posted my report in the report forum but it is pretty much what I said here. The only difference is that in the report I mentioned my experience during registration re checking out the pace groups. There was a girl there that was VERY confident that she had all of the answers to all of life – especially training, racing, and probably world peace. When she started giving her completely unsolicited advice after I mentioned Steve’s plan for me, I got p.o.’ed and steam started coming out of my ears. I went on the attack and hubby very quickly pulled her away to keep me from killing the witch. So that lets you know my tolerance for blowhards that don’t truly stop, listen, assimilate, and care.

BTW Steve I tell my family/friends how awesome you are all of the time and they have tremendous respect for you. And every time I start to do something they think is stupid, they know I probably won’t listen to them but they suggest, “Go ask Steve. He can help you decide.”