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Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! (Page 37)
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 2011-02-02 7:32 AM in reply to: #3256274 |
Pro  3804     Seacoast, NH! |  Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL!Thanks everyone for the feedback. I went down to fitwerx and tried a couple different helmets on. The fitters said that the louis garneau superlegera seemed to fit my geometry the best....I will probably go with one of those. Still not sure. My head is 58 cm. What does a size large giro fit? I'm not too concerned with being hot. It's interesting that you say you get more of a benefit from the aero helmet if you are slower...the math just doesn't work out that way. The drag on a "body" is always higher at higher velocities. Are you saying that the slower you are, the more help you need or what? |
| 2011-02-02 8:25 AM in reply to: #3334777 |
| Member 221 Lancaster | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 8:32 AM It's interesting that you say you get more of a benefit from the aero helmet if you are slower...the math just doesn't work out that way. The drag on a "body" is always higher at higher velocities. Are you saying that the slower you are, the more help you need or what? It sounds more like a theoretical. If you are already fast at say 20mph and the aero helmet improves you to 21mph, you will gain 16 minutes over the course of an IM ride. If you average 15mph and the helmet gets you to 17mph you would save 50-52 minutes over an IM ride. In other words your gains will not be as significant if you are already fast. You will still finish ahead of rider B by 1:15 so they are not passing you or anything, just getting more benefit. Probably akin to me wearing a wetsuit vs somebody that doesn't swim well. If they have buoyancy issues, they may gain 10 seconds per 100 while I may only get 4. It doesn't mean they will go faster than me overall, but they will see the most gains from the equipment. Kind of like putting racing slicks on a Mack truck. It may help, but not as much as a better engine and a sleeker body. Edited by ClydeNewb 2011-02-02 8:27 AM |
| 2011-02-02 10:00 AM in reply to: #3334777 |
Champion 7233  | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 6:32 AM Thanks everyone for the feedback. I went down to fitwerx and tried a couple different helmets on. The fitters said that the louis garneau superlegera seemed to fit my geometry the best....I will probably go with one of those. Still not sure. My head is 58 cm. What does a size large giro fit? I'm not too concerned with being hot. It's interesting that you say you get more of a benefit from the aero helmet if you are slower...the math just doesn't work out that way. The drag on a "body" is always higher at higher velocities. Are you saying that the slower you are, the more help you need or what? its not a you get more benefit, its you save more time overall. You are going slower, so the helmet (or anything) is going to save you more time overall vs a faster moving object in total time. It may be more useful to someone moving faster however, because as you go faster, wind resistance goes up (cubed correct?) you'll see yourself working harder and harder for smaller and smaller gains as you go faster. |
| 2011-02-02 10:42 AM in reply to: #3334865 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! ClydeNewb - 2011-02-02 9:25 AM jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 8:32 AM It's interesting that you say you get more of a benefit from the aero helmet if you are slower...the math just doesn't work out that way. The drag on a "body" is always higher at higher velocities. Are you saying that the slower you are, the more help you need or what? It sounds more like a theoretical. If you are already fast at say 20mph and the aero helmet improves you to 21mph, you will gain 16 minutes over the course of an IM ride. If you average 15mph and the helmet gets you to 17mph you would save 50-52 minutes over an IM ride. In other words your gains will not be as significant if you are already fast. You will still finish ahead of rider B by 1:15 so they are not passing you or anything, just getting more benefit. Probably akin to me wearing a wetsuit vs somebody that doesn't swim well. If they have buoyancy issues, they may gain 10 seconds per 100 while I may only get 4. It doesn't mean they will go faster than me overall, but they will see the most gains from the equipment. Kind of like putting racing slicks on a Mack truck. It may help, but not as much as a better engine and a sleeker body. Yeah, I gotcha...that does make sense. You do have the speeds backwards though...the faster rider's speed increases more because of the velocity squared portion of the drag equation. The PERCENTAGE increase of velocity for the slower rider is greater, thus showing a greater time savings. You won't see a slower rider gaining 2mph and the faster rider gaining 1 mph. It would be the other way around. The power required to overcome the drag force is greater for the faster rider (assuming they have the same profile). Swim question for you: My swim workout today says, "swim downhill". What the heck does that mean!? |
| 2011-02-02 10:52 AM in reply to: #3334777 |
| Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 2:32 AM Thanks everyone for the feedback. I went down to fitwerx and tried a couple different helmets on. The fitters said that the louis garneau superlegera seemed to fit my geometry the best....I will probably go with one of those. Still not sure. My head is 58 cm. What does a size large giro fit? Giro is for 59-64 cm I believe. My head is 57.5, and the large is too big. Well...if anyone else has a big head, 59-64, and is looking to try an aero helmet...let me know. |
| 2011-02-02 11:18 AM in reply to: #3335150 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 9:42 AM ClydeNewb - 2011-02-02 9:25 AM jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 8:32 AM It's interesting that you say you get more of a benefit from the aero helmet if you are slower...the math just doesn't work out that way. The drag on a "body" is always higher at higher velocities. Are you saying that the slower you are, the more help you need or what? It sounds more like a theoretical. If you are already fast at say 20mph and the aero helmet improves you to 21mph, you will gain 16 minutes over the course of an IM ride. If you average 15mph and the helmet gets you to 17mph you would save 50-52 minutes over an IM ride. In other words your gains will not be as significant if you are already fast. You will still finish ahead of rider B by 1:15 so they are not passing you or anything, just getting more benefit. Probably akin to me wearing a wetsuit vs somebody that doesn't swim well. If they have buoyancy issues, they may gain 10 seconds per 100 while I may only get 4. It doesn't mean they will go faster than me overall, but they will see the most gains from the equipment. Kind of like putting racing slicks on a Mack truck. It may help, but not as much as a better engine and a sleeker body. Yeah, I gotcha...that does make sense. You do have the speeds backwards though...the faster rider's speed increases more because of the velocity squared portion of the drag equation. The PERCENTAGE increase of velocity for the slower rider is greater, thus showing a greater time savings. You won't see a slower rider gaining 2mph and the faster rider gaining 1 mph. It would be the other way around. The power required to overcome the drag force is greater for the faster rider (assuming they have the same profile). Swim question for you: My swim workout today says, "swim downhill". What the heck does that mean!? The faster rider should actually gain less mph, ie the power needed to go .5 faster is much higher at 25mph and at 15. In other words a 15watt gain (or reduction in drag) will give you a higher gain in MPH at a slower speed than a faster. But i think we're saying the same thing in dif ways. Unless i'm totally off in my physics here, which is totally possible. It helps no matter the speed |
| 2011-02-02 11:19 AM in reply to: #3335150 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 9:42 AM ClydeNewb - 2011-02-02 9:25 AM jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 8:32 AM It's interesting that you say you get more of a benefit from the aero helmet if you are slower...the math just doesn't work out that way. The drag on a "body" is always higher at higher velocities. Are you saying that the slower you are, the more help you need or what? It sounds more like a theoretical. If you are already fast at say 20mph and the aero helmet improves you to 21mph, you will gain 16 minutes over the course of an IM ride. If you average 15mph and the helmet gets you to 17mph you would save 50-52 minutes over an IM ride. In other words your gains will not be as significant if you are already fast. You will still finish ahead of rider B by 1:15 so they are not passing you or anything, just getting more benefit. Probably akin to me wearing a wetsuit vs somebody that doesn't swim well. If they have buoyancy issues, they may gain 10 seconds per 100 while I may only get 4. It doesn't mean they will go faster than me overall, but they will see the most gains from the equipment. Kind of like putting racing slicks on a Mack truck. It may help, but not as much as a better engine and a sleeker body. Yeah, I gotcha...that does make sense. You do have the speeds backwards though...the faster rider's speed increases more because of the velocity squared portion of the drag equation. The PERCENTAGE increase of velocity for the slower rider is greater, thus showing a greater time savings. You won't see a slower rider gaining 2mph and the faster rider gaining 1 mph. It would be the other way around. The power required to overcome the drag force is greater for the faster rider (assuming they have the same profile). Swim question for you: My swim workout today says, "swim downhill". What the heck does that mean!? swimming downhill means thinking of siwmming down a slight plain, vs in a straight line (most people are going ot have their head up a bit and actually almost swimming "uphill" if they are not 100% on with body position. |
| 2011-02-02 12:16 PM in reply to: #3335248 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! newbz - 2011-02-02 12:18 PM The faster rider should actually gain less mph, ie the power needed to go .5 faster is much higher at 25mph and at 15. In other words a 15watt gain (or reduction in drag) will give you a higher gain in MPH at a slower speed than a faster. But i think we're saying the same thing in dif ways. Unless i'm totally off in my physics here, which is totally possible. It helps no matter the speed What!? I must be baked or did the math wrong. All things considered, if you are increasing the force due to drag, then squaring the velocity will result in a larger overall speed. I do see what you mean though...the power required to go 1 mph faster increases the faster you are going...for some reason I don't get the math to work out that way. I give up. I'm just going to buy one and pretend it makes me faster than it does! |
| 2011-02-02 12:18 PM in reply to: #3335250 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! newbz - 2011-02-02 12:19 PM swimming downhill means thinking of siwmming down a slight plain, vs in a straight line (most people are going ot have their head up a bit and actually almost swimming "uphill" if they are not 100% on with body position. Can you explain how I would do this? Is it just concentrating on a horizontal body position? Not sure how this actually makes you feel like you're going downhill. |
| 2011-02-02 12:25 PM in reply to: #3335373 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 11:16 AM newbz - 2011-02-02 12:18 PM The faster rider should actually gain less mph, ie the power needed to go .5 faster is much higher at 25mph and at 15. In other words a 15watt gain (or reduction in drag) will give you a higher gain in MPH at a slower speed than a faster. But i think we're saying the same thing in dif ways. Unless i'm totally off in my physics here, which is totally possible. It helps no matter the speed What!? I must be baked or did the math wrong. All things considered, if you are increasing the force due to drag, then squaring the velocity will result in a larger overall speed. I do see what you mean though...the power required to go 1 mph faster increases the faster you are going...for some reason I don't get the math to work out that way. I give up. I'm just going to buy one and pretend it makes me faster than it does! Ha, your math my be better than mine here.(almost certain it is). As you go faster, wind res goes up either cubed or something higher. So the faster you go, the more it takes % wise to move up a certain value. so from 15 to 20mph may only require you to add 50 watts. but the jump from 20-21 might take another whole 50 watts (numbers are not exact). So you are slower, you'll gain more "time" on the bike with it, but as you go faster, those little changes make lot of a dif, as the smaller changes in time matter as times/speeds get closer together. But yeah, i think you get the picture even if one of our math is off. Swimming wise, i'd ask one of the swimmers in here, i never learned that way (ok i was pretty much self taught). |
| 2011-02-02 12:48 PM in reply to: #3256274 |
| Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! I didn't do the math to back this up...but I think speed gains do increase at higher speeds...just at a smaller rate of increase. Edited by tri808 2011-02-02 12:48 PM |
| 2011-02-02 12:52 PM in reply to: #3335461 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! and this is why i was a journalism and art major. |
| 2011-02-02 1:08 PM in reply to: #3335461 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! tri808 - 2011-02-02 1:48 PM Extrapolate out farther. Lets say you could go 200 mph without an aero helmet. I guarantee you that with an aero helmet you're going to pick up about 5 mph. But again...that's only a 2.5% increase. Is this when latex tubes no longer matter?! So if you look at the force due to drag equation the force is inversely proportional to the drag coefficient. Remember that the drag coefficient for a given shape is the same, regardless of speed. Essentially, if you are using 200 watts to move your head through the air, going 15 mph and for some miraculous reason the helmet cuts the drag coefficient in half, you now only have to use 100 watts to move your head through the air. So what I'm saying is that if you are using 400 watts to move your giant mellon through the air at 25 mph...you now have a savings of 200 watts!! No...the numbers don't turn out even like that because the speed portion of the equation actually increases the force as you go faster...but I'm trying to sort it out in my head. Your percent power savings is higher at higher speeds.... For this example, lets just say that it takes 100 watts to increase to 16 mph and at 25 mph it takes 150 watts to increase to 26 mph. The faster person still has that extra 50 watts, which at 26 mph let's assume means an extra .3 mph....even though he/she has already used 150 to go that extra 1 mph where the slower person only had to use 100 watts. So in my crazy example, the aero helmet gives the same drag coefficient, but a greater power savings to the faster person. So this is sort of a crude example I used:  So you'll notice that there is a smaller "force differential" with the aero helmet as I reduce the drag coefficient from 5 to 3. The faster rider using the aero helmet encounters a force of 937.3 at 25 MPH and 1014 at 26 mph (a differential of 76.5). If you look at the same fast rider not using the aero helmet, the differential is 127.5. The same is evident for the slower rider with force differentials of 46.5 and 77.5 for the aero helmet and without, respectively. Edited by jgerbodegrant 2011-02-02 1:50 PM |
| 2011-02-02 1:33 PM in reply to: #3335380 |
| Member 221 Lancaster | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 1:18 PM Can you explain how I would do this? Is it just concentrating on a horizontal body position? Not sure how this actually makes you feel like you're going downhill. You push your head down a little causing your hips to rise in the water giving you the sensation of swimming "downhill". It's basically a drill to help with body positioning and get you accustomed to having your hips high and creating better body positioning in the long run I believe. |
| 2011-02-02 1:45 PM in reply to: #3256274 |
| Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! Just a reminder folks to watch what you eat now...so you can enjoy Sunday.  |
| 2011-02-02 1:47 PM in reply to: #3335602 |
| Member 221 Lancaster | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! tri808 - 2011-02-02 2:45 PM Just a reminder folks to watch what you eat now...so you can enjoy Sunday. I'm fasting until Sunday.  |
| 2011-02-02 1:53 PM in reply to: #3335602 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! tri808 - 2011-02-02 1:45 PM Just a reminder folks to watch what you eat now...so you can enjoy Sunday. I may as well get all my Sunday and Monday workouts in before this weekend. Watching the game from a bar across the street from lambeau and then enjoying the celebration as the city shuts down Monday means I won't be making much of any progress this weekend, but hell this might top being in Pamplona for San Fermin a few years back! |
| 2011-02-02 1:56 PM in reply to: #3335576 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! ClydeNewb - 2011-02-02 2:33 PM jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 1:18 PM Can you explain how I would do this? Is it just concentrating on a horizontal body position? Not sure how this actually makes you feel like you're going downhill. You push your head down a little causing your hips to rise in the water giving you the sensation of swimming "downhill". It's basically a drill to help with body positioning and get you accustomed to having your hips high and creating better body positioning in the long run I believe. Ah! Gotcha....thanks! I too am fasting until Sunday. Water and celery only. |
| 2011-02-02 4:00 PM in reply to: #3256274 |
Master 1441 North edge of nowhere | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! Last night (this morning) I said I'd take a rest day today. Apparently I didn't know what I was talking about. 1 hour on the trainer at a half-decent effort. 14 equivalent-miles. Knee is good (little tight, but stretching easily), nose is a little clogged, but not as bad as it would have been pre-surgery. If the local environment wasn't so dry, we'd have all kinds of problems with ice on the roads. A friend north of here said that the snow fell hard, but it's so dry there that the 30+mph winds just blew the snow off the roads quickly. I'd almost prefer some snow here; I would rather this kind of cold be joined with snow, hot chocolate, iced roads, a fire place, and no work. But since I only live 2 miles from the office, I don't expect I'd get away with saying "the roads are too bad, I can't get in safely". |
| 2011-02-02 7:20 PM in reply to: #3256274 |
Veteran 343 PA | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! This caught my eye today-- http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=240766&posts=10&start=1 am I crazy  I am currently riding a fisher cronus.....so I know the weight savings of a carbon fiber bike......the race season for me this year is sprints. I was probably going to look at bikes this fall. |
| 2011-02-02 7:25 PM in reply to: #3336309 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! nakdboardr - 2011-02-02 8:20 PM This caught my eye today-- http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=240766&posts=10&start=1 am I crazy I am currently riding a fisher cronus.....so I know the weight savings of a carbon fiber bike......the race season for me this year is sprints. I was probably going to look at bikes this fall. I did my first tri on that bike. It was a friend's bike at the time and it served me very well...I didn't do that great, but the bike was good to me . He actually sold it for $850 just about four months ago.I have another friend who has the same bike and qualified for kona on the dang thing. It's probably one of the better entry level tri bikes....and compared to the price of other bikes....that gives you a ton of extra room for buying wheels and little upgrades as well. Edited by jgerbodegrant 2011-02-02 7:26 PM |
| 2011-02-02 7:27 PM in reply to: #3256274 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! Hey I figured I would put this up on our forum before I gave it away in the pay-it-forward thread. I have a profile designs aero bar computer mount. it's about 1" long by 1/2" diameter. It won't fit my giant computer. If anyone needs it, shoot me your address and it's yours. |
| 2011-02-02 8:07 PM in reply to: #3256274 |
Regular 459 | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! The math in this thread is making my head hurt. I did extremely well in high school math, but then went on to get a theatre degree. Now just reading this is making smoke come out of my ears. Suffice it to say that I am slow enough that it doesn't matter at all whether I have an aero helmet. Or perhaps I need one more then anyone? I'm currently sitting at home wondering whether I will get my swim in tonight. Lane swim starts in 55 minutes and lasts for an hour. My husband isn't home yet and I can't go unless he gets here in time (somebody has made it illegal to leave a 2 and 3 year old without supervision). A recent promotion has given us some more money in the pocket, but at the cost of him working more overtime... I'm going to have to start getting creative to get some of these workouts in. I guess if I don't get the swim, it means I ride my bike after the kids are in bed. I did get a 5am run in this morning at least. |
| 2011-02-02 9:23 PM in reply to: #3336326 |
| Member 221 Lancaster | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 8:27 PM Hey I figured I would put this up on our forum before I gave it away in the pay-it-forward thread. I have a profile designs aero bar computer mount. it's about 1" long by 1/2" diameter. It won't fit my giant computer. If anyone needs it, shoot me your address and it's yours. Do you need a special mount for aero bars? I got a set of profile designs off ebay but I figured they would mount far enough apart to leave my computer on the handle bars. Is this wrong? |
| 2011-02-03 6:25 AM in reply to: #3336514 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! ClydeNewb - 2011-02-02 10:23 PM jgerbodegrant - 2011-02-02 8:27 PM Hey I figured I would put this up on our forum before I gave it away in the pay-it-forward thread. I have a profile designs aero bar computer mount. it's about 1" long by 1/2" diameter. It won't fit my giant computer. If anyone needs it, shoot me your address and it's yours. Do you need a special mount for aero bars? I got a set of profile designs off ebay but I figured they would mount far enough apart to leave my computer on the handle bars. Is this wrong? No..probably not; the computer will probably fit between the bars. The advantage to this little mount is that you can mount it out farther so you don't have to bend your head down to look at the computer. You're welcome to try it out....if it doesn't work, I just ask that you pay it forward to someone else. It doesn't require any special adapter or tooling. |
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