Experior's Group - CLOSED (Page 39)

SCOUT>>>>>Go for it.  Are you going to go all out right at the start or try to negative split?  Just curious.  When I ran my test 5K I went all out and hung on at the end.  Good luck?

Edited by TriGuyBri 2010-03-10 10:23 PM

Gives a new meaning to 'finding hope in despair'...

Seriously, though, if your goal is to finish not feeling awful, then you can do it.  Your swim is obviously no problem.  Keep your long run around 10 miles (maybe less some weeks) like last week -- there's no need to go longer; it would be better to increase one or more of your other runs than to increase that one.  So really your swim and run are basically there.  You just need to hop on that bike!

I run 5K like you do, Brian, all out and hang on for dear life.  But others follow different strategies.  I think different things work for different people.

There have some threads here on BT about 5K pacing strategy.  They can get a little ugly at times, but they also have some useful thoughts.  Here's one (it has both features...).

I'm going to try and negative split.  I figure I need to be around a 7:45 mile pace, so I'll try and stay around 8 the first mile, 7:45 the second and 7:30 the last.  Hopefully that will work out for me.  I've had a habit in the past of going all out right from the start and not being able to hang on.  In fact, twice I've had to stop about 100 yards from the finish line and hurl, then finish the race.  That's not good.  I prefer to hurl about 10 yards PAST the finish line.   

Thanks for the advice on the run, Michael.  I'd rather get the miles in a more consistent fashion so that suits me just fine.  With daylight savings coming up, evening runs and rides will be back in the picture... yay!  Like you say, gotta get the miles in on the bike.  Hope to start bike commuting soon.  My goal is to finish... feeling awful is likely regardless of my training.  But hopefully I will also feel "awfully" good :-)

Btw, when I read my quote above it sounded kind of wrong... what was encouraging was that they were still planning on doing the HIM despite their lack of training.  So I felt a little more positive when I heard that. 

Good luck in the race Scout... your split approach sounds great.  I still remember my first 5K which I ran with no thought process at all and in tennis shoes... first mile was 7:30, 2nd 10, 3rd 14+.  I was a total idiot.  I still have a tendency to go out fast and try to hang on (sprinter's mentality), but I now focus on smooth in the first mile rather than fast, then follow a goal pace for the 2nd mile (depends on the course), and then push as hard as I can the last mile.  I've been spending alot of my training time working on getting used to how negative splits feel because it isn't how I'm wired.  Still have yet to be able to do it in a race.  One day, one day...

Did my mini-tri random order this morning... my legs still hurt.  DeeDee's class was a killer.  But a good 2+ hour workout with a bike focus.  Looking good for another 7+ week!

Stu

Edited by juneapple 2010-03-11 5:48 PM

Edited by juneapple 2010-03-11 5:46 PM

Very cool.  I love seeing stuff like this on runs.

The other day I was doing loops and saw a dead squirrel three times.  Does that count?  (Sad thing is, it was right in my path and took me by surprise each time.  Sometimes I can be dense that way!)

What cool stuff have others seen on runs/bikes/swims?

When I lived in the country and did my runs along the highway, I've seen deer, fox and coyotes. Do horses and cows count? I've haven't seen much since I moved in the city. I miss the country runs, they were a lot quieter.

Lately lots of manatees.  I think I've seen at least one on every run over the past month.  All my runs are along the water so I'll see the manatees along with lots of fish, cownose and spotted eagle rays, dolphins and the occasional shark.  

Pouring rain here in FL, and for once it co-ordinated with a planned day off.  The bad news I just discovered a leak in the roof  

Sorry that tops my bald eagle.

Phil

I usually just see lots of morons driving their cars while talking on their cell phones not paying attention to anything going on around them.  But my longer bike rides take me out into the farm country.  Lots of cows and horses and other farm animals.  I can usually smell them before I see them though...

Strong run this evening between rain showers.  6.11 miles in about 54 min. 11 sec.  8 X 20 sec. sprints with 40 sec recovery on the way out and a consistent strong pace on the way back.  Felt good at the end still.  Hopefully I can get in an outdoor bike tomorrow toward the end of the day; depends on the rain.  Missed a bike workout earlier in the week and had to do an indoor one yesterday.  Kind of blows my goal for 80% of my rides outside for March.

Scout good luck on our run this weekend.  Get'er dun!!!
 

Ran 9.5 miles this AM at an easy pace.  I feel fine, but this run kinda blew the 10% rule given that I haven't done a run this long in 3 or 4 weeks, and it was my only other run this week aside from a 3 miler.  Was this just dumb?  I feel like my body can handle the distance and I want to start easing my weekly long run in to the 10s, but my training isn't so consistent that I can add exactly 10% volume or mileage per week.  Thoughts?  

Was able to get my afternoon ride in today.  First time this whole week I was able to ride outside.  Long run in the morning and swim tomorrow evening.  Got a flat on my ride this evening after 13 min. into it; first time since I started this journey.  They probably will start coming like gangbusters now that the box has been opened.  Took quite a while to change it.  I am guessing it really doesn't matter how long it will take me to change the flat during a sprint since it is such a short race I'd be out of it anyway; not to say that I was in it (medaling) to begin with.

Spleen...I am not expert on running by any stretch of the imagination;  however, I would always make sure my mileage boosts were about 10% of my total for the week and then on the fourth week I'd would tone down my total mileage (shorter runs by higher intensity) as well for that week; not sure the amt. of the decrease.  Was always worried and concerned about injury.  There were times I think I pushed it too much even with the 10% rule and should have stuck with the same distance or even less.  

Just my two cents for what it is worth...

 

Brian:  Sounds like you got some good workouts this weekend.  I also flatted on my long ride yesterday.  It doesn't hurt to practice changing the tire.  You should be able to get it down to 2 minutes or so.  That'll still kill your bike time in a sprint, but it isn't a total disaster.

Pete:  The 10% rule is 'more what you'd call guidelines'.  It is definitely a good place start, but if you can violate it without hurting yourself, then by all means go for it.  Just listen very carefully to your body.  A few other thoughts: (1) the amount of 'lifetime miles' you have is relevant here -- a brand new runner is truly asking for it by 'violating' the 10% rule, while a very experienced runner who is ramping back up to a volume that he or she has previously done can probably get away with a quicker increase.  (2) Many people can ramp up your long run a little faster than 10%, keeping the total volume increase more like 10% though.  (3) Really, though, it is best to avoid letting your long run get more than about 40% of your total weekly mileage.

Beautiful day here.  I hope you all are having the same.  Alas, I'll be working indoors most of the day.

It all depends on how you feel during and after. Some can handle it others can't. If you felt like you could not go on at any point and you continued then I would err on the dumb side. But if your pace was easy enough that by the end you may have some left in the tank then I would say good for you. The 10% rule is an avg and you are the judge on what your body can handle, that's why it's very important to listen to your body and understand what it's trying to tell you.

Had a really good 10 mile run this morning.  Came in at 1:32+ which, if memory serves me, is my fastest 10mi time and about 4 minutes faster than the last 10mi race I ran.  So, I'm feeling pretty confident that I'll be setting a PB in the Charlottesville 10 miler on April 3rd.  That will my first race of the year and then straight into Tri season.  Hope to get a 5K in there along the way too.

On the animal watch, I did see a cow stranded on a newly made island thanks to the flooding from yesterday.  She didn't seem too happy about that.  2nd time this year already that our road was flooded... it had probably been 10 years since the last time.  What a year for the weather.  Never know what is coming next.

Update those goal results today and I'll be posting the updated chart tomorrow.  Off to High School play - Peter Pan.  Have a great day everyone!

Stu

So a little while ago I got a chance to talk with a swim coach, a young guy who was a pretty successful swimmer and now collegiate coach.  I pestered him with 1000 questions, which he sort of seemed to enjoy (I don't think I'm fooling myself here because he suggested we have lunch again soon!).  Anyway, I learned a lot, but the one thing that sticks out as a 'duh, that was obvious but I never thought of it' moment was his answer to the question "what do you think the #1 training mistake is for triathletes (apart from not swimming enough)?"

His answer was: VO2 intervals.  We don't do them.  Instead, we assume that doing them on the bike and run 'covers' the swim.  Well, it doesn't, for the rather obvious reason that one important effect of VO2 intervals is building the oxygen delivery and use IN the actual muscles that are being used.

By VO2 intervals he means efforts of 2-5 minutes pretty much all-out, with equal rest intervals.  He says start off doing something like 6x2' with 2' rest (or whatever length approximates 2 minutes or a little more, with equal rest).  In his words, 'you should be crying at the end'.  Sounds fun!

Well, I had a great ride on the trainer yesterday. I felt faster and stronger than I have in a long time.
Then, last night, something snapped in my foot. It caused instant pain and swelling. After a very restless night, waking up with the pain, I went to urgent care this AM. No broken bones, but the Dr thinks I ruptured a tendon.
So, I'm on crutches and have a referral to go to ortho this week.
No working out for at least a week for me. I'm already going stir crazy.

Hey folks, just a quick check-in to say hello.

Michael- I'm poised to get back into the pool tomorrow after a long absence.  I don't think I'll be tackling any VO2 workouts just yet, but thanks for the tip.  I'll leave the crying for a few weeks down the road.

Hope everyone has a nice week.

Mike

Oh my.  Really sorry to hear that, Heidi.  Sounds like it might be time for swim-focus...

Best of luck.  Do be sure that your ortho is clear that your goal is not just to walk without pain, but to be able to train consistently.  I think this is very important.  In fact I've had long conversations (admittedly while playing poker...) with a doctor-friend of mine, and with my own ortho, on exactly this issue.  They deal so often with people who just want 'the minimum' (walk from the car to the grocery store entrance without too much pain) that this sort of goal tends to become their baseline.  Make sure that he or she knows that you have other ambitions!

Yeah, I'm not sure that it was meant as an 'introductory' workout. 

At the same time, one nice thing about swimming is that you can introduce this sort of workout much earlier than you can on the bike or run, without too much fear of injury.  (OK, maybe it's wrong to call that 'nice', but you get the point...)  I'm a MUCH less able swimmer than I am a runner, and even a cyclist, but I find there to be very little impact even from sets that leave me gasping for air at the side of the pool.  A run like that leaves me hurting for a while.

Funny story (sorry for the stream-of-consciousness segue; it's late):  One of the first times that I went to the pool at an odd hour (because I often work odd hours) -- after the serious early morning swimmers are gone, and before the serious lunchtime swimmers show up -- I did a set of hard 100s or something like that and at the end I was doubled over at the end of the lane, trying to catch my breath.  It probably looked like I was having a heart attack.  One of the lifeguards came over to check on me.  We got to chatting and she let me know that she only guards during those hours and had never seen someone actually breathing hard after a swim.  I was splitting the lane with someone wearing a poofy flower cap and bouncing up and down in the water (NOTHING wrong with that!!!! -- she was probably 80 and I PRAY that I'm able to bounce up and down in a pool at that age) and the lifeguard said 'see, this is what I'm used to, not people almost puking into the drains'.  She called it right because I felt like puking.

Wow - that REALLY sucks!  I hope that the urgent care doc is wrong and that it's nothing serious.  I had an outstanding run this afternoon while DS was at play practice.  In the time that I had, I managed 12 miles along the Brandywine Creek.  I had to pick up my son at 4, and had I known that there would be no traffic, I could have pushed it out to 13 or 14 miles.  Oh well...

Planning a swim tomorrow morning and a spin on the trainer at lunch time.  I think that I'll be sticking to my binder workouts.  Some of the speed workouts there seem to mimic what the swim coach told Michael about V02 max workouts.  Before starting these workouts, I always swam at the same pace.  Now swimming at different paces, and doing several different kinds of swims (endurance, speed, muscular endurance...)

Have a great week everone, and good luck with the doc Slow Turtle!