Gray Guys/Girls Master's Focus Triathlon Mentor Group--CLOSED (Page 39)

Wow you are all very busy.  I love reading your progress and updates - the good and unfortunately, the bad.

I have to say I find the nutrition information interesting.  I did a big bike ride last weekend, didn't bonk but was close - my quads started cramping and I know I didn't drink near enough.

I was telling my husband about the ensure mixture for the bike - he has done IMCDA 2x and we have never heard of that mixture before - we find it fascinating.  Would you reduce mixture for a 70.3?    We just did a large Hammer order with Perpetuem tabs/mix along with Heed, etc.   I personally like the perpetuem tabs but I am the only one in our group of tri crazies.

We are participating in a sprint tri on Saturday - I usually do this with both my daughters but only the youngest this year.  We will swim in the same lane - I asked her not to lap me too many times.    

Wondering what you are doing for swim yards for 70.3 distances?  My race isn't until late July so I have some time to build but am really only at 12-1700, so I plan to add yards starting next week.

Hey everyone,

Sorry I have been AWOL.  I enjoyed the holiday weekend just a little too much!

Anyway, I see there is a question about how far an athlete should swim to prepare for the swim leg of a triathlon.

We are going to assume that your technique is good.  If it isn't, that is your first order of business - get your technique sorted out.

A very general rule of thumb is, to be a middle of the pack swimmer, you need to work up to swimming 1.5 - 2.0 times the race distance per workout, a minimum of three times a week.  Generally you will have an 8-week build up to the proper distance and then 8-weeks at that distance for a total of 16-weeks.  I would consider that a minimum!  That distance should be broken down into intervals.  You do NOT want to be swimming long steady state swims - that is an absolute waste of time.

Using that formula, here are the ranges for each of the race distances (the race distance is in meters, then I converted to yards as most people train in a short course yards pool.

If you want to be a front of the pack swimmer, you should be swimming 2.0 - 3.0 times the race distance per workout 4-times per week.

The other part of this is how to swim those yards in training.  We have touched on that briefly in the past.  If anyone is interested, I will be happy to revisit threshold pace as well as how and why you should develop your threshold pace.

Hope that helps.

I thought I would make a comment on race day nutrition, especially since triathlon season is nearly upon us.

Scott and Tammy, this is not directed at your nutrition comments per se.  Your comments merely provided an inspiration.

We triathletes are a fickle bunch.  We constantly are trying to find a better way to do something.  Whether that be the latest training fad, the most recent new-wave recovery method, or the latest and greatest nutrition plan.  In the process of finding all those revolutionary new theories so that we can simplify things, we tend to over-complicate them.

Race day nutrition is no exception.  However, when you look at the science, it doesn't have to be complicated.

The simple reality is, depending upon the amount and type of carbohydrate you consume, your body can generally only process approximately 1 gram of carbohydrate per minute during intense exercise - that is 4-calories per minute or 240 calories per hour.  Slightly more if your carbohydrate is from multiple sources such as sucrose and fructose - getting you up to maybe 300 calories per hour.  Anything more than that is a waste and an invitation to GI distress.

I have heard athletes on more than one occasion say something like, "Oh, well, I take my "XYZ" blend, mix it at double the normal concentration, add a pinch of this and a dash of that, shake it up and put it in my bottle.  That gives me 800 calories in each bottle so I just drink one an hour and I am good to go."  NO they are not!  In reality, in that situation, the athlete is probably getting next to nothing per hour.

Bodily fluid osmolality is typically in the range of 270-310 mOsm.  Any fluid ingested should be at an osmolality below 300mOsm/kg.  If you don't know what that means, then you probably shouldn't be trying to come up with your own concoction to use as your nutrition because it is just going to sit there in your gut and cause GI problems - your body will simply not be able to digest it until it is at the proper concentration.  To dilute it, you either need to take in massive amounts of water, which can create problems all by itself, or your body will draw fluid from other parts of your body, such as the blood or muscles, which can also create other problems.

Beyond the concentration of whatever you are taking in, you need to consider electrolyte replacement, especially sodium, as well as protein and/or caffeine intake.  There are numerous studies that show taking in protein along with carbohydrate during longer events like an IM will help minimize muscle catabolism - your body "eating" muscle to produce energy.  Again, if you don't understand the science, you probably shouldn't be mixing your own formula because you are, quite literally, playing with fire.

The simplest solution is to use one of the multitude of products that are currently on the market.  Gels typically have 100-130 calories per dose - depending on the gel, 2-3 per hour and you are good to go.  Most of them don't have protein or electrolytes so you would need to supplement.  There are any number of sports drinks that include carbohydrate, protein, electrolytes and even caffeine and they are designed to put you in that sweet spot of 240-300 calories per hour.  There are also a number of companies that allow you to "custom blend" your sports drink to exactly what you want - number of calories, amount of protein and carbohydrate, whether there is caffeine or not, how strong the flavor is, etc.

Whatever solution you decide upon, make sure you test in in training.  Remember the adage, "Nothing new on race day."  That particularly applies to nutrition.  Just because you can tolerate something sitting on your couch in the living room, doesn't mean you will be able to tolerate it after 5-hours on the bike.

One final thought.  You can precisely calculate your energy requirements for whatever race you plan to do.  Knowing that, you can then accurately plan your caloric intake to meet your energy budget.  While your body can only process 240-300 calories per hour, you may not actually need that much.  An athlete doing a 5-hour bike ride may or may not have the same energy needs as an athlete doing a 7-hour bike ride.  In some ways, the athlete doing the 7-hour bike ride has an advantage because they have two additional hours to take in calories.  An athlete doing a Sprint Triathlon has different energy needs than an athlete doing an Ironman distance.

You don't need to over-complicate your race day nutrition.  Aim to take in 240-300 calories per hour along with 3-5 grams of protein for longer duration races as well as electrolyte replacement.  Calculate your sweat rate so you know how much fluid you need to take in per hour - generally one bottle per hour on the bike.  I encourage the athletes I work with to take in nutrition while still in T1 instead of waiting until you are 15-20 minutes in to the bike because you are coming out of the water at a caloric deficit.  The sooner you get ahead of that, the better.

Happy racing!

Hope that helps.

Hey Scott,

I looked at your log.  I think you are referring to the 5/16 ride where you were on the bike for 5:48.  If that is the correct ride, then yes, you probably could have taken in more nutrition.  Ideally you would have taken in 1,380 - 1,725 calories during that ride.  Without knowing your FTP and some other numbers from the ride I can't really fine tune it any better than that.  Undercutting the caloric intake on the bike typically doesn't impact the bike.  You generally can't take in as many calories while running so the caloric deficit from the bike will carry over and rear it's ugly head during the run.

Just remember, if you find yourself rubbing up against the wall, Coca-Cola in the aid station will become your very best friend!

I doubt this was "hitting the wall."  It was more likely the accumulated fatigue from everything you had done over the course of the camp.

This may well have been the beginning signs of "hitting the wall."  In more advanced cases, not only do your legs not want to move, they simply won't support you.  It can go downhill from there.

If you have never seen it, here is a link to Julie Moss hitting the wall in the 1982 Ironman World Championships.  This went worldwide on ABC's Wide World of Sports and brought many people into triathlon.  This is a very clear example of hitting the wall. It isn't pretty to watch, in fact, as an athlete, it is almost painful, but certainly worth the 3-minutes to watch and take a lesson from - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbWsQMabczM

No, it isn't the carbonation.  When you hit the wall, you need energy RIGHT NOW.  The fastest source of energy is soda pop and most triathlons happen to have Coca-Cola on hand.  Gels will work, sports drink will work, but neither of those will be as fast acting as soda.  If you hit the wall, grab a can of soda pop, immediately follow that with a couple gels.  Significantly lower your pace for the next 10 minutes or so and then you should be back on track - albeit at a huge caloric deficit which you will have to manage as the wall is still looming out there.

Calculating your sweat rate is fairly easy to do, as you will see in just a minute.  There is some debate as to whether you should calculate your sweat rate separately for the bike as well as the run.  They are likely going to be a little bit different.  Some coaches are happy just knowing the sweat rate for the run and using that for everything.  Others want to know the specific sweat rate for each sport.  That choice is obviously up to you.

To do the test -

1)  Strip down to your birthday suit and weigh yourself.  The more accurate your scale, the better.  Write your weight down.

2)  Go for a one-hour bike ride/run at the same approximate intensity you anticipate on race day in similar environmental conditions if possible (time of day, temperature, humidity, etc.).

3) Record exact amount of any fluid taken in during the test (I do this by measuring water into a bottle, then measuring the remaining water after the exercise, the difference is the amount ingested).

4) After your ride/run, strip down to your birthday suit again, dry yourself with a towel (this is important) and again weigh yourself.

5) Subtract the weight in step 4 from the weight in step 1, convert that answer to ounces, then add the amount you drank from step 3.  The result is your hourly fluid loss.

Example:

Let's say you weigh 146.6 pounds before exercise.  You go for a one-hour run, consuming 6 ounces of water during the run.  Afterwards, your weight is 145.5

To determine sweat rate -

146.6 - 145.5 = 1.1 lbs x 16 to convert to ounces = 17.6 ounces + 6 ounces taken in during exercise = 23.6 ounces lost per hour

In this example the athlete would need to consume 23.6 ounces of fluid to replace what was lost.

I use my sweat rate as a guide to hydration.  If I calculate 23.6 ounces I am not going to freak if I only take in 22 ounces, nor is the world going to change it's axis if I drink 25.

Hopefully, knowing how to calculate your sweat rate will give you some insight into race day and training hydration.

Scott - I see by your chart that I too have been undertraining for the swim.  I typically swim 3 times per week but not far enough.  Since I got your info on threshold swimming I have seen some improvements in my swimming.  I've been OWSing in a local lake a nice 18C/64F (perfect temp).  So, how do I break my swims up to intervals in the lake?  It is a small lake 1km by 600m in size and no motors allowed so we can swim without any limitations.  Today I swam about 3800m in 1:30 but in 5# intervals.

I'm afraid I too have been AWOL for a while.

Steve - Glad to hear you're getting going again.  I also see you won't be racing in Chelan either.  Sorry to hear that.  I'll try to remember to watch for you along the bike route.  I'm slow so I'll be near the back of the pack and looking a lot like my profile pic (Papa Smurf).  I'm all signed up and fortunately I was able to reserve a room at the Midtowner in Chelan (Wed to Mon).

Locally, There hasn't been a lot of buzz about the ITU World Championship Festival.  I expect I'll be doing some heavy duty volunteering for the duration of the festival.  And, I'd like to get involved in some of the racing.

EchoLkScott - The Festival should be pretty good.  Hopefully, you will come up and have a good time.  When my friend and I drove to Lake Stevens for our first HIM we went by Hwy 20 in Washington and it was a pretty scenic easy drive.   We have a lot of good swimming lakes and ride/run routes.

Yesterday I rode 5 hours around the Ironman/Challenge bike course.  We climbed 1238m/4062' so my pace was very slow but I made it up all the hills after doing a three hour run on Wednesday.  For the ride I consumed 5 bottles of Perpetuem, 1 bottle of gatorade, 1 bottle of Coke and 1 bottle of recoverite plus one HSwaffle and a Luna bar.  I also included saltstick to my repertoire.  I haven't calculated precisely but my caloric intake was comfortably over 300g of carbs per hour and about 100g of protein total.  I also consumed over 240mg of sodium per hour.  As a diabetic I don't normally drink pop but I figured I earned it on the ride.  According to my Garmin I burned 4238 calories (not sure how accurate it is).

This week I am tapering for my Oliver 1/54/10 race this weekend.  My first event of the season and it is an Oly race with a 54km bike ride.

Steve - Sounds like you are coping really well.  It is hard to ride here without climbing hills which is really bad for me as I am very slow on any climbing.  I had looked at maps of the ChelanMan bike route and they claim 709m of climbing.  Is that inaccurate?  I shouldn't have too much trouble with 709m unless it is a fairly steep gradient.

Over the next few weeks I've got several rides of 1200m of climbing scheduled (but nothing over 10% grade).

Hi George,

Sorry, somehow this slipped by and I didn't see it.

First, the reason for intervals.  Simply stated, using intervals, you can swim fresher, faster, longer with proper technique.  A quick example:  If you are at the point where you are doing "speed work" - this would generally be at a pace around [STP - 3/5 seconds/100] or faster - you would use intervals to allow you to swim a greater distance at that pace.  We know that once you are anaerobic, technique breaks down and you can't maintain the pace for more than a brief period of time.  By using intervals with short recovery times, you are able to stay right at threshold and recover quickly, which allows you to maintain proper form and lets you get the increased distance at the faster pace.

Contrast that with long, steady state swims, such as you typically would get in an open water swim.  Since there are no walls to cling to, you must swim at a reduced pace in order to "last" so you can swim the distance.  This might be a pace around [STP + 5/8 seconds/100] or slower.  However, to increase threshold pace (STP) you need to swim near threshold pace.  To increase speed, you need to swim slightly faster than threshold pace.  Doing either of those things is difficult, if not impossible, to do in a long, steady state, OWS.

In a perfect world, an athlete would have access to a pool in order to do intervals so the "rest" time is truly rest.  However, sometimes, all you have is a lake or other large body of water.  So, as the saying goes, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

There are a couple of options.  You can use what I call "object intervals," count intervals, ladders or pyramids.  The goal of each of these is to allow for swimming at or near race pace for a sufficient amount of time to improve race pace.

I guess I should make the standard disclaimer - have your buddy with you or at least observing your OWS.

Object Intervals - Find an immovable object in the distance that you can see clearly, a buoy, a tree, rock, or maybe a pier.  Swim at race pace (or your STP training pace if you are using STP) to the object, then slowly swim back to the starting point and repeat.

Count Intervals - This is similar to object intervals, however instead of an object, you are counting strokes and going out a set number of strokes.  For example, if you swim "out" 100 strokes, you will likely have swum a bit over 100 meters (most average MOP swimmers are around 18-22 strokes per 25 meters as a general guide).  So swim out 100 strokes at race pace, then swim slowly back to shore, and repeat.

Ladders - You can do ladders a number of different ways.  The idea is to break up a long steady state swim into "intervals."  You might start out by swimming 100 strokes at race pace, followed by 100 strokes at a slow recovery pace.  Then repeat with 200, 300, 400, and 500 strokes.  Or, as an alternative, you could start with 500 and work down.

Pyramids - This is the same as ladders, except you work up and then back down.  Something like 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 400, 300, 200, 100.  You can do it where you do a specific stroke count at race pace, followed by the same stroke count at your recovery pace working through the pyramid.  Or you could do 100 race pace, 200 recovery pace, 300 race pace, 400 recovery, 500 race, 400 recover, 300 race, 200 recovery, 100 race pace.

The variations are limitless.  The idea is to swim at a faster pace, followed by swimming at a lower pace to recover.

Hope that helps.