Seriously - why the mocking of the Co-exist sticker? (Page 4)
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mehaner - 2012-08-09 9:58 AM jgaither - 2012-08-09 10:23 AM scoobysdad - 2012-08-09 7:23 AM Great, so why suppress my beliefs in the name of yours, even if you choose to believe in nothing? If we're embracing the idea of "co-existing" then we and our beliefs should be able to exist side-by-side, right? It's co-exist, not suppress the mainstream. Instead, what we get thanks to the co-exist crowd are bannings of Christmas parties in our public schools and the inability to wear American flag t-shirts in an American school on Cinco de Mayo. That's not respecting each other's beliefs, it's suppressing them. Big difference. First amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Having a holiday party favors no religion. Having a Christmas party segregates those non-Christians and/or forces them to celebrate an occasion they do not believe in. In other words it froces upon those non-Christians, Christian practices and beliefs. Why do you hate america? while i understand what you are getting at, eating cookies and singing about santa claus are not practicing Christian beliefs. No it doesn't, and it never did really. So doesn't "Holiday Party" seem more appropriate anyway? |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bradleyd3 - 2012-08-09 10:25 AM jgaither - 2012-08-09 9:23 AM So a Christmas tree and Santa Claus are now Christian? scoobysdad - 2012-08-09 7:23 AM Great, so why suppress my beliefs in the name of yours, even if you choose to believe in nothing? If we're embracing the idea of "co-existing" then we and our beliefs should be able to exist side-by-side, right? It's co-exist, not suppress the mainstream. Instead, what we get thanks to the co-exist crowd are bannings of Christmas parties in our public schools and the inability to wear American flag t-shirts in an American school on Cinco de Mayo. That's not respecting each other's beliefs, it's suppressing them. Big difference. First amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Having a holiday party favors no religion. Having a Christmas party segregates those non-Christians and/or forces them to celebrate an occasion they do not believe in. In other words it froces upon those non-Christians, Christian practices and beliefs. Why do you hate america? We actually have had a tree almost every year but one. I am the one who gets it, decorates it, and missed it the one year we did not have one. We had "Santa" in our house for our kids. Both are treated as purely secular objects. We do not do a creche, we do not attend any mass (it's not only CHRISTmas, it's also ChristMAS), and there are no religious icons on the tree - just homemade decorations or baubles that represent trips and activities we enjoy over the course of the years (I have water bottle and bike shoe ornaments). And mrs. gearboy spends weeks baking cookies to give to people as a symbol of friendship and love of cookies. To the extent that christmas has become an American holiday as opposed to a purely religious one (remember, the first religious colonies actually banned the celebration of the holiday as being too frivolous), we will continue to have the decorations. On a side note, to those that talk about learning about Hannukah - you do realize that it is not a significant holiday AT ALL? It is pretty much ignored in Israel. Even Purim is a bigger deal as far as religious significance, and I bet your school didn't offer anyone a Purim party with noisemakers and delicious hamentaschen, even though it comes not too long before Easter on the christian calender, when everyone is talking about jelly beans and chocolate bunnies. Hannukah is a celebration of religious fundamentalists defeating more secular Hellenic jews to decide the direction of the ruling classes. But no one talks about that - just how jewish kids get socks and wooden tops while christian kids get mountains of toys and bb guns. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() gearboy - 2012-08-09 11:32 AM bradleyd3 - 2012-08-09 10:25 AM jgaither - 2012-08-09 9:23 AM So a Christmas tree and Santa Claus are now Christian? scoobysdad - 2012-08-09 7:23 AM Great, so why suppress my beliefs in the name of yours, even if you choose to believe in nothing? If we're embracing the idea of "co-existing" then we and our beliefs should be able to exist side-by-side, right? It's co-exist, not suppress the mainstream. Instead, what we get thanks to the co-exist crowd are bannings of Christmas parties in our public schools and the inability to wear American flag t-shirts in an American school on Cinco de Mayo. That's not respecting each other's beliefs, it's suppressing them. Big difference. First amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Having a holiday party favors no religion. Having a Christmas party segregates those non-Christians and/or forces them to celebrate an occasion they do not believe in. In other words it froces upon those non-Christians, Christian practices and beliefs. Why do you hate america? We actually have had a tree almost every year but one. I am the one who gets it, decorates it, and missed it the one year we did not have one. We had "Santa" in our house for our kids. Both are treated as purely secular objects. We do not do a creche, we do not attend any mass (it's not only CHRISTmas, it's also ChristMAS), and there are no religious icons on the tree - just homemade decorations or baubles that represent trips and activities we enjoy over the course of the years (I have water bottle and bike shoe ornaments). And mrs. gearboy spends weeks baking cookies to give to people as a symbol of friendship and love of cookies. To the extent that christmas has become an American holiday as opposed to a purely religious one (remember, the first religious colonies actually banned the celebration of the holiday as being too frivolous), we will continue to have the decorations. On a side note, to those that talk about learning about Hannukah - you do realize that it is not a significant holiday AT ALL? It is pretty much ignored in Israel. Even Purim is a bigger deal as far as religious significance, and I bet your school didn't offer anyone a Purim party with noisemakers and delicious hamentaschen, even though it comes not too long before Easter on the christian calender, when everyone is talking about jelly beans and chocolate bunnies. Hannukah is a celebration of religious fundamentalists defeating more secular Hellenic jews to decide the direction of the ruling classes. But no one talks about that - just how jewish kids get socks and wooden tops while christian kids get mountains of toys and bb guns. likewise, Easter is a far more significant holiday to Christians than Christmas. but the easter bunny is not a christian belief |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() powerman - 2012-08-09 10:23 AM Big Appa - 2012-08-09 9:10 AM powerman - 2012-08-09 8:03 AM Then what is celebrating the birth of Christ? While I understand what you are saying Santa really has nothing to do with the birth of Christ anymore. Saint Nicholas was a Catholic Saint that was know for his gift giving. Let's not get silly about the meaning of Christmas. I have zero problems with it and I am perfectly fine taking a paid holiday if Muslims want a day too. But don't confuse commercialisim with the meaning of the day. Christmas is the celebation of the birth of Christ. Easter is the celebration of his rebirth as the Son of God. No fat man of fuzzy bunny is ever going to change that.
Easter is the celebration of the resurrection of Christ form being on the cross and defeating death... |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jgaither - 2012-08-09 11:29 AM mehaner - 2012-08-09 9:58 AM jgaither - 2012-08-09 10:23 AM scoobysdad - 2012-08-09 7:23 AM Great, so why suppress my beliefs in the name of yours, even if you choose to believe in nothing? If we're embracing the idea of "co-existing" then we and our beliefs should be able to exist side-by-side, right? It's co-exist, not suppress the mainstream. Instead, what we get thanks to the co-exist crowd are bannings of Christmas parties in our public schools and the inability to wear American flag t-shirts in an American school on Cinco de Mayo. That's not respecting each other's beliefs, it's suppressing them. Big difference. First amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Having a holiday party favors no religion. Having a Christmas party segregates those non-Christians and/or forces them to celebrate an occasion they do not believe in. In other words it froces upon those non-Christians, Christian practices and beliefs. Why do you hate america? while i understand what you are getting at, eating cookies and singing about santa claus are not practicing Christian beliefs. No it doesn't, and it never did really. So doesn't "Holiday Party" seem more appropriate anyway? i agree, and i'm not opposed to "holiday parties," i just think calling a christmas party "forcing others to participate in religion" is a huge misnomer. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() uclamatt2007 - 2012-08-09 10:27 AM For those that are offended by a school having Christmas events, does it also bother you that children are given Saturday and Sunday off? The reason that we have the weekend as we know it is that those days are the sabbath for the Jewish and Christian religion. Does this exclude Muslims, for which Friday is their day of prayer? For me personally, I find ability for some people to mangle the concept of separation of church and state to be truly impressive. I have a five year old cousin who has a very large birthmark on his face. It is very noticeable and draws many comments. My grandma was with him the first time he noticed it himself and she explained it to him as that was where he was kissed by an angel. Last month a kid in his kindergarten class asked him what was on his face and that is what he told him. The teacher called in his parents to inform them that he couldn't say that at school because some kids may not believe in angels. Now I am in no way religious myself, but that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. I'd much rather have Wednesday and Saturday or Sunday off personally. You're starting to get into the the evolution of society at this point, as far as explanations for why we do certain things, certain ways. Religion was the first rudimentary form of government. There are hold overs from those roots and some hold overs most have no interest in changing. Why in the world would you want to give up a day off of work? You're a crazy man!!!! Now require everyone to be in church on Sunday morning and you'll have a dust storm on your hands. I agree your example is pure lunacy. Of course I'm sure it relates to prayer in school somehow (which I don't have a problem with student led). I don't know. With it being two students talking, off the top of my head it sounds like that infringes on your cousin's freedom of speech rights. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mehaner - 2012-08-09 11:36 AM ... likewise, Easter is a far more significant holiday to Christians than Christmas. but the easter bunny is not a christian belief Christmas and Easter are the big two, correct? For jews, the big two are Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana. Both occur in the early fall. Hannakuh is a truly minor holiday - maybe on the scale of St. Patrick's day. And I still say that chocolate bunnies and jelly beans beat hamentaschen. Not that I'm bitter... |
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![]() There was a Scottish painter named Smokey MacGregor who was very interested in making a penny where he could, so he often thinned down his paint to make it go a wee bit further. As it happened, he got away with this for some time, but eventually the local church decided to do a big restoration job on the outside of one of their biggest buildings. Smokey put in a bid, and, because his price was so low, he got the job. So he set about erecting the scaffolding and setting up the planks, and buying the paint and, yes, I am sorry to say, thinning it down with turpentine......... Well, Smokey was up on the scaffolding, painting away, the job nearly completed, when suddenly there was a horrendous clap of thunder, the sky opened, and the rain poured down washing the thinned paint from all over the church and knocking Smokey clear off the scaffold to land on the lawn among the gravestones, surrounded by telltale puddles of the thinned and useless paint. Smokey was no fool. He knew this was a judgment from the Almighty, so he got down on his knees and cried: "Oh, God, Oh God, forgive me; what should I do?" And from the thunder, a mighty voice spoke. "Repaint! Repaint! And thin no more!" |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jgaither - 2012-08-09 10:40 AM uclamatt2007 - 2012-08-09 10:27 AM For those that are offended by a school having Christmas events, does it also bother you that children are given Saturday and Sunday off? The reason that we have the weekend as we know it is that those days are the sabbath for the Jewish and Christian religion. Does this exclude Muslims, for which Friday is their day of prayer? For me personally, I find ability for some people to mangle the concept of separation of church and state to be truly impressive. I have a five year old cousin who has a very large birthmark on his face. It is very noticeable and draws many comments. My grandma was with him the first time he noticed it himself and she explained it to him as that was where he was kissed by an angel. Last month a kid in his kindergarten class asked him what was on his face and that is what he told him. The teacher called in his parents to inform them that he couldn't say that at school because some kids may not believe in angels. Now I am in no way religious myself, but that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. I'd much rather have Wednesday and Saturday or Sunday off personally. You're starting to get into the the evolution of society at this point, as far as explanations for why we do certain things, certain ways. Religion was the first rudimentary form of government. There are hold overs from those roots and some hold overs most have no interest in changing. Why in the world would you want to give up a day off of work? You're a crazy man!!!! Now require everyone to be in church on Sunday morning and you'll have a dust storm on your hands. I agree your example is pure lunacy. Of course I'm sure it relates to prayer in school somehow (which I don't have a problem with student led). I don't know. With it being two students talking, off the top of my head it sounds like that infringes on your cousin's freedom of speech rights. When you really pull the covers back it's amazing how much of our society has religious elements/origins interwoven (primarily christian). I personally never put the connection between saturday/sunday off with religion, but it does make sense. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() gearboy - 2012-08-09 10:41 AM maybe on the scale of St. Patrick's day. I am lost on this example as St Patty's day is my most sacred of days........... followed closely by 4th of July. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jgaither - 2012-08-09 8:46 AM And Cinco de Mayogearboy - 2012-08-09 10:41 AM maybe on the scale of St. Patrick's day. I am lost on this example as St Patty's day is my most sacred of days........... followed closely by 4th of July. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jgaither - 2012-08-09 11:46 AM gearboy - 2012-08-09 10:41 AM maybe on the scale of St. Patrick's day. I am lost on this example as St Patty's day is my most sacred of days........... followed closely by 4th of July. any holiday involving barbecue, the beach, and fireworks wins in my book. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() DanielG - 2012-08-09 10:43 AM There was a Scottish painter named Smokey MacGregor who was very interested in making a penny where he could, so he often thinned down his paint to make it go a wee bit further. As it happened, he got away with this for some time, but eventually the local church decided to do a big restoration job on the outside of one of their biggest buildings. Smokey put in a bid, and, because his price was so low, he got the job. So he set about erecting the scaffolding and setting up the planks, and buying the paint and, yes, I am sorry to say, thinning it down with turpentine......... Well, Smokey was up on the scaffolding, painting away, the job nearly completed, when suddenly there was a horrendous clap of thunder, the sky opened, and the rain poured down washing the thinned paint from all over the church and knocking Smokey clear off the scaffold to land on the lawn among the gravestones, surrounded by telltale puddles of the thinned and useless paint. Smokey was no fool. He knew this was a judgment from the Almighty, so he got down on his knees and cried: "Oh, God, Oh God, forgive me; what should I do?" And from the thunder, a mighty voice spoke. "Repaint! Repaint! And thin no more!" lol, ok that was so dumb it made me laugh |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() uclamatt2007 - 2012-08-09 10:48 AM jgaither - 2012-08-09 8:46 AM And Cinco de Mayogearboy - 2012-08-09 10:41 AM maybe on the scale of St. Patrick's day. I am lost on this example as St Patty's day is my most sacred of days........... followed closely by 4th of July. aaaaaah!!! How could I have forgotten Cinco De Mayo!!!! I should be flogged. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() uclamatt2007 - 2012-08-09 11:48 AM jgaither - 2012-08-09 8:46 AM And Cinco de Mayogearboy - 2012-08-09 10:41 AM maybe on the scale of St. Patrick's day. I am lost on this example as St Patty's day is my most sacred of days........... followed closely by 4th of July. which is an incredibly insignificant holiday in mexico... |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jford2309 - 2012-08-09 9:37 AM powerman - 2012-08-09 10:23 AM Big Appa - 2012-08-09 9:10 AM powerman - 2012-08-09 8:03 AM Then what is celebrating the birth of Christ? While I understand what you are saying Santa really has nothing to do with the birth of Christ anymore. Saint Nicholas was a Catholic Saint that was know for his gift giving. Let's not get silly about the meaning of Christmas. I have zero problems with it and I am perfectly fine taking a paid holiday if Muslims want a day too. But don't confuse commercialisim with the meaning of the day. Christmas is the celebation of the birth of Christ. Easter is the celebration of his rebirth as the Son of God. No fat man of fuzzy bunny is ever going to change that.
Easter is the celebration of the resurrection of Christ form being on the cross and defeating death... Ya... I read the book. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jgaither - 2012-08-09 10:46 AM gearboy - 2012-08-09 10:41 AM maybe on the scale of St. Patrick's day. I am lost on this example as St Patty's day is my most sacred of days........... followed closely by 4th of July. My alma mater (Univeristy of Missouri-Rolla) has no classes on the Thursday and Friday of the week of St. Patrick's Day so that this most sacred of holiday can be properly celebrated. Which pretty much consists of copious amounts of green beer, followed by green vomit. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jgaither - 2012-08-09 8:50 AM Do two tequila shots and place $20 in the beer fund and you shall be forgiven my son. uclamatt2007 - 2012-08-09 10:48 AM jgaither - 2012-08-09 8:46 AM And Cinco de Mayogearboy - 2012-08-09 10:41 AM maybe on the scale of St. Patrick's day. I am lost on this example as St Patty's day is my most sacred of days........... followed closely by 4th of July. aaaaaah!!! How could I have forgotten Cinco De Mayo!!!! I should be flogged. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm not black, should I be offended by MLK day? I'm not Irish, should I be offended and ask them to stop it? I'm not Mexican, I'm not Italian, I'm not religious.... so should I be offended? Where is my special caucasian mutt, non religious holiday? Just because somone gets a holiday does not take away from who I am and what I believe. If the majority of this country is Christian and they want to celebrate the birth of Christ... big fat hairy deal. I find something to do with my time. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() powerman - 2012-08-09 12:05 PM
Where is my special caucasian mutt, non religious holiday? superbowl sunday? |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mehaner - 2012-08-09 9:07 AM Festivuspowerman - 2012-08-09 12:05 PM
Where is my special caucasian mutt, non religious holiday? superbowl sunday? |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() mehaner - 2012-08-09 10:07 AM powerman - 2012-08-09 12:05 PM
Where is my special caucasian mutt, non religious holiday? superbowl sunday? That is not a day off... If we recognized the following Monday, then we would be good. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() uclamatt2007 - 2012-08-09 10:08 AM mehaner - 2012-08-09 9:07 AM Festivuspowerman - 2012-08-09 12:05 PM
Where is my special caucasian mutt, non religious holiday? superbowl sunday? I do not need a special day for the airing of grievences. As far as telling everyone how much they have let me down that year... that's Thanksgiving. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() powerman - 2012-08-09 12:09 PM mehaner - 2012-08-09 10:07 AM powerman - 2012-08-09 12:05 PM
Where is my special caucasian mutt, non religious holiday? superbowl sunday? That is not a day off... If we recognized the following Monday, then we would be good. in these parts, a lot of places recognize the first day of deer hunting season. does that work for ya? lots of hairy caucasians participate in that one...and it offends people too! |
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