Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED (Page 4)

Nutritional tip of the day for us snackers.  For the last two months I've been trying various ways to get away from "bad" snack stuff (crunchy salty stuff) to good snack stuff (fruits and veggies).  Well, despite have plenty of good stuff around it wasn't satisfying something in me and my poor willpower got the best of me when stressed.  But I may have stumbled upon something.  Last week bought one of those 6lb bags of frozen fruit from Sam's... somehow the crunchiness (and coolness) of the frozen fruit is working for me and I'm able to pass on the bad stuff more easily now.  

-Stu

You will lose some long-run fitness.  That's the bad news, but it's to be expected -- you can't maintain it forever.  (See 'periodization' above!)  But you can maintain most of it, and refocus on sprint-distance running (basically, 5K), and even get faster at 5K.  If I were you, I'd aim for a goal of biking more than you run.  Right now you are running 5-6 hours per week and biking around 3 hours per week.  I think that swapping those numbers would not be a bad idea.  Probably the best (and logistically easiest) way to do that would be to get rid of the long run on Saturdays and replace it with a long bike.  It wouldn't be awful to tack a short (2-3 mile) run onto the end of that long bike once you get used to the long bike itself (i.e., after a few of them).

A 2+ hour bike ride might seem like overkill for a sprint triathlon, but I don't think it is at all.  Don't make it a 'smelling the flowers' ride.  Do a warm-up then put in some hard efforts then cruise home.  One thing about the bike is that it can be used to 'simulate' putting out a hard effort for the full length of any race apart from IM, and that is great preparation for the race, without the pounding of the running part.

You can also consider putting some higher intensity one of your shorter runs.  You can do this because you will be dropping back your total run distance by quite a lot, so the added stress of a hard run will be compensated by the loss of the long run.  This should help increase your 5K pace.  Start easy!  Maybe in one of your 5 mile runs, you go two miles at your usual pace to warm up, then something like 4x 1/2 mile at a harder pace (not slaying yourself, but noticeably harder), walking to full recovery in between, then EASY jogging home to cool down.  At the end of the last 1/2 harder, you should feel like you could do another (but don't!).

Great tip Stu.  My weakness is the bagel shop around the corner from my office.  Why oh why do the only decent bagels in the entire city have to be within smelling distance of my office window???

First run after the 1/2. Was going to do a 5 mile easy run. Legs felt pretty good except for some periodic "twinges." The one thing I did notice was my 75% HR felt a lot like my 82-85% on Sunday. I listened to what I think my body was trying to tell me. I cut the run short. Got in 3 miles instead.

Stu, I'm REALLY hoping to get back to the pool tommorow!

Phil

27 miles on the bike yesterday, Phil... I'm just saying... ;-)

Phil, good job listening to your body. It's amazing what we can hear from our body when we listen to it's signs. If more people actualy listened to their bodies there would be a lot less illness, and in an athletes case less injuries.

Finaly got a workout in last night, well two (bike and swim). My routine has been wrecked since my dog injured his leg (it's as if I got injured), it's like having a new born again needing help for everything. He's recovering very well, now we have to restrain him so he doesn't re-injure.

For me, this week is Week 1 of 12 for my A race July 4, have B race on June 6 (first TRI). My A race date may change, pending work trip at end of June. Hoping to get a chance to do my first outdoor bike workout tomorrow, weather/work pending.

Sylvain

The tests I have in mind (and the ones that I've started using) are to find velocity at LT and velocity at VO2max.  Note that for running, this number will be fairly robust under varying conditions, provided that you do the test on terrain that is similar to where you run.  On the bike, the results don't carry over as well to outdoors, just because biking is so much more dependent on conditions (hills, wind, road conditions).  I do the test on a trainer, then try to dial in HR and RPE at these efforts on the trainer and this gives me a reasonable measure to take outdoors.

The tests are from Phil SKiba's book Training with Power, which I think is a great book.

Velocity at LT (aka 'Critical Power' on the bike)

For the bike (either on a trainer, or on a flat section of road with very little wind):

1.  Do an all-out 3 minute interval.  Record your distance covered.  Call this D3.
2.  On a different day, do an all-out 20 minute interval.  Record your distance covered.  Call this D20.
3.  Your 'critical velocity' (which is close enough to velocity at LT for gov't work) is

(D20 - D3) / 17

Example:  You covered 1.5 miles in 3 minutes, and 8 miles in 20 minutes.  Your critical velocity is

(8 - 1.5) / 17 = 0.38 (roughly)

This is in miles per minute.  Multiply by 60 to get miles per hour (so in the example, it comes to 22.8mph).

(In the last group, I posted a spreadsheet that does this for you on the bike, and also calculates zones for you based off of the result.  I'll try to find that and repost.)

For the run (preferably on a track, or on terrain similar to where you run)

1.  Run 1000m as if you were racing it (i.e., as fast as you can).  Record the time in seconds.  Call it S1000.
2.  On a different day, do the same for 5K (best to use a race result here).  Record the time in seconds.  Call it S5000.
3.  Your critical velocity in meters per second is

4000 / (S5000 - S1000)

Example:  you cover 1K in 5:00 and 5K in 30:00.  Your critical velocity is

4000 / (1800 - 300) = 2.7 (roughly)

Call this number CVR.  You can convert to minutes per mile by

26.88/CVR

So in our example, your critical PACE (per mile) is 9.96 min/mile or a pace of 9:57.

For the swim

1.  Swim 200m all out.  Record the time in seconds.  Call it S200.
2.  Swim 1K all out.  Record the time in seconds.  Call it S1000.
3.  Your critical velocity in meters per second is

800 / (S1000 - S200)

Example:  you cover 200 in 3:00 and 1K in 17:00.  Your critical velocity is

800 / (1020 - 180) = .95 (roughly)

Call this number CVS.  You can convert to seconds per 100m by

100/CVS

So in our example, your critical PACE (per 100m) is 105 sec/100m or a pace of 1:45.

Alright, I need to get on to meetings now.  I'll post about VO2max later.  (LT is far more important to get right, though.  I'll say why later.)

So how's the bike?

Still waiting for it's first ride, hopefully tomorrow afternoon. I haven't had the chance to adjust seat height yet. I did read through that article you referenced which helped me understand positioning. My first couple of rides will be short, 30 to 45 minutes, so I can get a feel for it. I have one question, currently this bike does not have clipless pedal (I have no shoes either) and no aero bar. I think I know the answer, but I like to hear opinions. Do I get pedals/shoes first or earo bar? Keep in mind I'm only doing sprints this year. I think everyone will say, get the pedals.

Thanks
Sylvain

Yes, I would get the pedals first.  You can still get reasonably aero by riding in the drops.

I second getting pedals first.

And I read that you are already smarter than me and are going to test the bike out with short rides.  I got my first road bike in August last year and promptly took it out for a 1 hour ride, without fitting for it.  Well I had an upper back/shoulder/neck muscle injury that took me out of everything for a week, and biking another 2 weeks.  I couldn't turn my head.  I've got a few other stupid BTer stories like that also.

Enjoy the bike.

Wow - I have never seen these. I will definitely compute my velocity and LT numbers. Right now I am in taper mode for 70.3 NO this weekend.

One of my goals - although not triathlon related is to excel in a pump in run challenge. I got this from a friend a couple of weeks out.



It got me back in the weight room and I have progressed to 50 reps for my 70% body weight (110 LBS). My goal is to have a total time in the negatives – I need 57 reps and a strong run.

Is anyone else interested?

One thing about the tests -- they are basically estimating how fast you can go for 1 hour.  So obviously the most accurate test would be to go all out for an hour.  The problem there is that an hour all-out effort can be pretty disruptive to your training, because it takes a bit of time to recover from it.  Better to reserve those efforts for races.  The tests that I described have been shown to be fairly accurate predictors, certainly good enough for setting your training paces.

As for the pump 'n run challenge, I'm pretty sure I would be laughably bad at it.  I doubt I could press 100 lbs more than a handful of times...   Maybe I could work on getting my 5K time down to 3 minutes?

Hey James... definitely a cool challenge and a neat idea.  I can also say that as a slow 50 year old with little upper body strength it would be a great motivator to improve probably my two weakest fitness elements (along with flexibility - yoga anyone?), lose some weight, and, at the same time improve my humility!  If I were betting, I'd say I'd come in somewhere around 24 min!  Maybe even worse after tonight's pitiful run... grrrrr.

-Stu

Edited by juneapple 2010-04-14 7:51 PM

I may skip a swim workout this week on Friday.  Do you think it will matter much if I did that on a race week?  I had to move my swim this evening to tomorrow morning, but will choose to do the longer work out and also have a 1 hr. bike ride tomorrow night.  I don't want to then turn around and do another swim workout the next day along with a run. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Race on Sunday....I am seeded in the second heat; lane 3 deep end start; third in line out of 5 total in my lane.  I haven't done a pool swim before.  I am guessing staggered starts of some kind swimming in a circle back and forth?

 

It happens.  I agree that swimming is a tough nut to crack.  I certainly haven't done so.

Here's the way I look at it.  The speed I aspire to is the speed that 12 year old girls on swim teams can do.  They started when they were 4.  I started when I was 40.  So I still have several years to catch up.  Basically, I aspire to be a 12 year old girl by the time I am 48....

I think it's fine.  There's little to no recovery cost for swimming.  (That's why swimmers can do 2-a-days for weeks or months on end.)

You could try checking race reports from BTers who did the race in past years, but it sounds to me like yes, you will be circle swimming, perhaps in heats.  The usual protocol there is that if you run up to someone whom you want to pass, tap the person's feet and they are supposed to let you by at the wall.  And vice versa.  Typically someone on deck would count your laps and signal you when to get out, but that's a signal that I suspect would be easy to miss.  I'd try to count my own laps carefully if I were you.

And good luck!  You'll do great.

Hey Guys- Sorry I've been MIA. Super busy week at work and home.

Phil-Congrats on the race. Man, you've come a long way!

I'll catch up on everything else later. Have a great day!

Taxes -- done!  And more than 12 hours to spare.  This might be the earliest I've ever gotten them done. 

Darn, faster than me again... still working on them this morning... but I can see the finish line now :-)

With my training in a bit of a lull at present, I'm happy to report that I managed one PR this week- earliest submission of tax returns, ever.  I'm normally an October 15th kind of guy.

Speaking of taxes, and especially to those of you preparing your own- be sure to take advantage of the Making Work Pay credit (file Schedule M).  $400 for single filers; $800 for joint filers.  It applies to single filers with AGI up to $95K (over $75K and the credit is reduced by 2% of difference of AGI over $75K); joint filers with AGI up to $190K (over $150K and the credit is reduced by 2% of difference of AGI over $150K). 

Michael - thanks for the information on finding LT levels.  Just out of curiosity, how often does one need to reassess those levels?  How often do you do incorporate such testing into your training, and what would be appropriate for a rookie? 

James- good luck this weekend in New Orleans!

I got out for a nice short ride on the bike (15 minutes). It was an eye opener. I felt like a rookie on it. Bike needs some adjustments on derailers and seat placement for proper angles, that will be fun. I definitely need pedals, these ones are broken and foot kept sliding off. Hopefully I can get them in a couple of weeks, that will cost me a lot of feet messages for my wife

Question about gear shifting. What I find odd is when my hands are on the lower bar (can't remember the term) I can only shift to easier gear for rear derailer, but if I want to shift higher I have to move my hand on top to push down with thumb. I would think that I want to stay in lower (aerow) position when shifting higher to get faster Is this the norm on road bikes? Can it be reversed?

Sylvain

Headed to the pool! I hope it's not like starting over.  After pool to the dreadmill for a 5 mile run.

Sorry Stu, did not make it pool the other day. Glad to hear you final got on the bike......er, I mean, uh  ........ got some quality time in on the bike. I'm just sayin.

Phil