BamaDC's mentor group is Closed! (Page 4)

Thanks guys. Good input form both of you. I'm really just trying to figure out how to maximize my training time. I'm 6 months out from my IM (Beach to Battleship) and I also have lots of work and family commitments. I'm starting to increase volume across the board s/b/r, that started this week. I just don't want to train 18 hours weekly if I can train more effectively and get the same results from 14.
As for my IM, yes it will be WS legal, and from what I hear the swim times are crazy fast due to swimming with the incoming current. It's funny how I used to be freaked out by the swim, and now I don't even sweat it. I really look forward to swim workouts now. it's the marathon thats gonna hurt, so I'm gonna cut my swim workouts to 3 weekly with increased distance and focus on the Bike and run. 
I did do a sprint this past Sunday. It was at a place called White Lake. Awesome venue. They do 2 weekends in a row with HIM on saturday, and sprint on sunday. This past weekend it was over 90 both days. Some of my training partners did the half, and the heat just killed em. Just to everyone off the wind was blowing about 20mph on Sat. I did the sprint. I was stuck in the novice division as the RD wouldn't let me switch to my AG. That meant we didn't even start til about 9am. I think about 600 people did the sprint. I wound up 3rd in that div. which i guess I'm ok with. Sorta wanted to win it. The swim was an absolute pleasure. Crystal clear water about 70 degree's. I took it way to easy on the 1/2 mile swim. Don't know why, but I was just holding back. Wound up 8th out of the water in my div. hammered the bike. averaged over 20 for the 14 miles. was 2nd on the bike and came into transition with the other 2 guys in my div. they both got me on the run. Think my 5k was around 25 minutes. hence my running questions. I could see those guys in front of me. I kicked with about 1.5 to go and pulled to within 10 yards of em. Then with about a quarter mile to go, they kicked and I couldn't answer. Really hurt my pride. Anyway, i think I may put the sprints away for a while and just focus on training volume. Their is an oly on june 6th I may do just for longer race experience. wish I could find a HIM close befoe B2B, but not a lot to chose from.

I'm going to answer your question based on you doing B2B.  Sprints and Olympics are a different animal altogether.

IMO! "Ironman is isn't about the bike, but it kinda is."  Bike training is the key!  You have to build up your bike fitness/economy.  Below.

I'm speaking from my experience.  First Ironman 2008, I had a 7:00 bike split and walked the marathon.  14:19

Second Ironman 2009, I biked 5:56 and jogged the whole marathon 4:22.  I believe I could have ran a sub 4 marathon, but I was running with a fellow BTer and had a blast.  My orignal goal was to break 12 hours, so I was arleady on cloud nine.


Whats the difference?  My volume was almost identical for both builds.

2008 I never test my heart rate zones(lab or field).  I did mostly low HR/low intensity riding and 4 100+ mile rides.  Longest run 1.5 hours.

2009 I got tested in a lab, found my true training zones and used a powermeter.  2 100+mile rides and lots of 2.5-4 hour rides and lots of intervals.  Longest training run 1.5 hours.

I remember you post your VO2 max score, did you have any metabolic numbers?

IMO, It's not about the run, until your finishing in the 10.5 hour range or less.  You hear about people doing multiple 2.5-3 hour runs.  IMO that's BS or worthless.

The Base Question.  After I worked with a coach, I started thinking of Base in a different way.  When I think of base, I think of the percentages of Fat/Carb you burn at intensity.   If you have a good base your burning alot of fat as fuel.


November 2008

Heart Rate		Kc/min	Calories per Hour		F/min	Fat	Carbs*
175		17.4	1044		2.8	168	824
165		16.9	1014		2.9	174	789
155		17.1	1026		4.2	252	723
145		14.7	882		5.2	312	526
			0			0	0
145-165		16	960		4.2	252	660
165-175		17.4	1044		3.2	192	800

July 2009

Heart Rate		Kc/min	Calories per Hour		F/min	Fat	Carbs*
175		17.2	1043		3.1	172	816
165		16.7	1002		3.4	194	763
155		16.8	1017		4.9	302	676
145		14.4	871		5.2	580	298
			0			0	0
145-165		16	941		6.2	450	447
165-175		17.4	1027		3.7	212	773

 

What is the take away from this?  The 2009 test was taken a few weeks before IMKY.? 

I averaged 143 bpm HR for the ride at IMKY.  I consumed 325 calories/hour during the ride.  This means because I had a good base/economy I started the IMKY run with a full tank of muscle glycogen.  That's the key to a good IM run. 


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Edited by BamaDC 2010-05-04 9:58 PM

Guys,

I'm prolly gonna get laughed at for this one (and probably deserve it).    There is a charity bike ride coming up this weekend.  I like the charity and was interested in doing the ride - pretty much a spur of the moment thing.  The interesting loop is 80 miles.  I think my long ride to date is 30-35 miles.  That was no issue.

This has stops ever 15 miles or so.  2600 ft. of elevation gain (not too bad for around here - heck one Oak Mountain loop isn't too far off of that).

Given my state of fitness (which is pretty decent right now), any issues with a reasonably easy long ride?

Mark, i got tested on the bike and on the run. VO2 max on the bike was 44.3 and on the run it was 63.1. Here's my bike data:

Heart rate         Kcal/min       KcalCHO/min       KcalFat/min
99                        8.1                 3.2                      4.8
114                      10.0               5.8                      4.2
131                      13.5               10.7                    2.8
146                      16.3               16.3                     0
156                      17.1               17.1                     0


Here's the run:


Heart rate         Kcal/min       KcalCHO/min       KcalFat/min
126                      13.5                10.3                  3.2
137                      14.7                11.4                  3.2
144                      17.4                14.0                  3.4
155                      18.8                17.6                  1.2
164                      20.4                20.4                   0
172                      22.5                22.5                   0
182                      24.3                24.3                   0


As you can see, as soon as I get above zone 1 or 2 I'm burning mostly carbs. They even pointed this out at the lab. How do I fix this? I just took a look at about 6 months worth of data and it looks like I average a HR or 132 on the bike, and 147 on the run. These were averages over 1500 miles on the bike and 300 miles running.

I also understand that the human body can only digest between 30 to 50 grams of carbs per hour, so looking at this data lets say my IM bike is 6 hours and my run is 5 hours. Lets forget the swim for now as I have no idea what my HR is on the swim. On the bike I would burn over 3800 grams of carbs and could only replace about 300 grams of that. On the run, I would burn 4200 grams of carbs and could only replace 250 grams. Looks to me like I'm gonna bonk at some point. Am I looking at this wrong?

Nah, you can do it. I would bet you'll be doing some pacelining as well, so that should help quite a bit. with stops mixed in, I bet you'll have fun and get a nice workout.

4-5 stops in there, which I plan to take full advantage of. 

Has anyone had any back spasms before?  If so what did you do to prevent them from happening again.  I know I have to loose weight, but what else is there that I can be doing?  Thanks.

Jon

A friend of mine was having a lot of back pain and occasional spasms last fall.  He ended up going to a chiropractor who gave him some exercises to do.  He tried self-treating but when he went to the doctor he found out that some of the exercises he was doing were actually counter productive. 

I had actually ask my doctor if a choiropractor would help and he was sure it would not.  I also ask him about phusical therapy and he said no.  He did see it any good with me, now maybe if I was a 75 yr old man with no muscle tone.  He siad I should walk and stretch, oh and loose weight.  I have had this problem since I was 18 yrs old.  I was not over wieght back then.  I am just frustrated, it seems like when I get going on training and weightloss something always happens.

It depends on several factors.

Back Spasms are usually the result of overuse injuries.  One of the main conditions I see causing back spams is facet syndrome.  This happens when your back muscles are strong which causes them to shorten and your ab muscles are weak which causes them to lengthen.  Thus causing an increase in the curve of your Lumbar spine.

So in short do some core work and do some stretches for your back.  Over time the biomechanics of your lumbar spine will change.

This is one of the main conditions I see in practice.  Usually overweight males who don't do any stretching and no core work.  The best part is Manipulation is pretty affective.

So in the case Drew described, the Chiro probably gave the patient some low back exercises.  Which would be counter productive.

Do it.

Edited by BamaDC 2010-05-06 8:21 PM

So to calculate the actual calories per hour burned, do you multiple the numbers by 60?  To get the calories per hour?

Whats you height and weight?

What are your HR zones for the bike and run.

Mark, are you a physical therapist?

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.

Yep, times 60. I'm 5'10" 168lbs.

Bike, Z1=<122
Z2=122-137
Z3=138-143
Z4=>144

Run,

HR/Pace label Range data label 1 - Recovery 110 - 141 2 - Extensive Endurance 142 - 151   3 - Intensive Endurance 152 - 159   4 - Sub-Threshold 160 - 166   5a - SuperThreshold 167 - 170   5b - Anaerobic Endurance 172 - 176   5c - Power 177 - 185

I'm a Chiropractor, but I do alot of rehab in my office.

Your welcome.  Sometimes spasms indicate an underlying condition.  They're the body's mechanism to protect itself, by locking up your range of motion to prevent further damage.   But it could be as simple as dehydration.

I sit a desk all day slowly developing problems that will eventually send me to see someone like you! ;-)

X2

x3

Some days I wish I had a desk job.

Done.  82.55 miles in 4:34 (18mph average).  ~5000 vertical feet of climbing (their estimate was way, way off).  About 50 miles longer than any single ride I had done before this.

Everything hurts.

Edited by sand101 2010-05-08 5:44 PM

Good job!