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politics: what i don't get... (rant) (Page 4)
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 2005-10-13 3:38 PM in reply to: #264000 |
Master  4101   Denver |  Subject: RE: politics: what i don't get... (rant)Interesting excerpt from a WP editorial (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/11/AR2005101101321.html) --------------------------------------- The bickering over the Miers nomination epitomizes the right's refusal to assume the role of a majoritarian governing party. The awkward fact for conservatives is that the American public doesn't agree with them on abortion rights. A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll in late August found 54 percent describing themselves as pro-choice and only 38 percent as pro-life, roughly the same percentages as a decade ago. That's the political reality that Bush has been trying to finesse with his nominations of John Roberts and Miers. That's why he said in the 2000 primary campaign that he wouldn't impose any litmus test (when other Republicans were demanding one) and would instead focus on a nominee's character and judicial philosophy. The realist in Bush understands that he can't easily force a nominee who is openly antiabortion on a country where a solid majority disagrees. |
| 2005-10-13 3:52 PM in reply to: #264865 |
Buttercup 14334  | Subject: RE: politics: what i don't get... (rant) I have heard some question whether Bush truly wants to overturn Roe v Wade. What would happen in this country if it were overturned? What kind of genie would he have let out of the bottle? Would state legislatures start enacting laws outlawing abortion? Politicans would actually have to TAKE A STAND (heaven forfend!) and put their votes where their mouths are. It's easy to pay lip service to fighting windmills - what happens when SCOTUS actually gives the blowhards a Pass Go card? Could a Republican Presidential candidate get elected in a new climate where legislatures would have free-hand to pass laws outlawing abortion? I don't think so. I think abortion makes most people very uncomfortable, and rightly so. I believe it was Hillary Clinton who said abortion should never happen but it should be available when someone makes that difficult choice (never thought I'd quote Hillary). But I also think a large majority of Americans would not want to see abortion outlawed (as your poll numbers show). What I'd like to see is more condom ads, more birth control ads, more accessibility to birth control, more sex education. The rate of occurrence of abortions fell during the Clinton years and have been rising during the Bush years. The Bush administration shit-canned Clinton's sex education campaign and we've seen a rise in abortions. Coincidence or causal outcome? Seems to me that if you have a program whose outcome is the lowering of abortion numbers that you would keep this program alive, not kill it. Stupid policy from stupid politicians pandering to a minority interest. |
| 2005-10-13 4:38 PM in reply to: #264875 |
| Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC | Subject: RE: politics: what i don't get... (rant) Renee - But I also think a large majority of Americans would not want to see abortion outlawed (as your poll numbers show). Well, I guess it depends on the question you ask:
So, according to this question, only 36% of Americans want abortion generally available. I suppose if you're a journalist you could pick and choose the results from the poll to conform with your opinion. There may be something to your thinking that the Republicans are playing with this issue to keep a certain constituency under its wing. On the other hand, pro-life Democrat Bob Casey Jr. is ahead of Rick Santorum in the polls in PA. So if Democrats really are interested in taking back power, perhaps they should allow more pro-life candidates to run. Edited by dontracy 2005-10-13 4:39 PM | |||||
| 2005-10-13 4:50 PM in reply to: #264903 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: politics: what i don't get... (rant) What your cited poll shows is that 24% of people polled do not want abortion at all. It wouldn't be a stretch to say they would like it to be outlawed. Which leaves 74% who do not want it outlawed. You are assuming that the Dem is ahead because he is pro-life and not due to some other reason... like because Santorum is a poopy-head. Edited by Renee 2005-10-13 4:52 PM |
| 2005-10-14 9:16 AM in reply to: #264913 |
Expert 783 South Bend, IN | Subject: RE: politics: what i don't get... (rant) Not that anybody cares what the Stormtrooper thinks, but.... First: don't like abortion, don't have one. Don't get knocked up in the first place. We all know how babies are made. Second, if you can't overturn precedent, then slavery and separate but equal would still be in effect. Third, regardless of whether you are for or against Roe, much (most?) of the legal controversy is how the decision got to that point. In an earlier thread someone pointed out a decision and working backward from there, like a geometry proof. What we have to understand is that there is/was questionable legal explanation/support for Privacy. It is understood as a Constitutional guarantee, but not explicitly stated. That opens the door for different interpretations. It is hard to argue or debate freedom of religion, press, etc as they are explicit. Privacy is different from person to person. |
| 2005-10-14 9:52 AM in reply to: #264913 |
| Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC | Subject: RE: politics: what i don't get... (rant) Renee - 2005-10-13 4:50 PM What your cited poll shows is that 24% of people polled do not want abortion at all. It wouldn't be a stretch to say they would like it to be outlawed. Which leaves 74% who do not want it outlawed. If it's true that a majority of Americans want abortions laws to remain exactly as they are then what's the problem? If Roe is overturned then that majority will vote to keep it legal. So why worry? It's a contentious decision for many reasons, one being that it looks like judicial legislation. That's something you don't like, right? So if it's overturned because it was not a sound decision on legal grounds, the Right to Life side won't have it to kick around anymore. And if, as you believe, the majority wants to keep the laws as they are, then the Pro Choice side will still have it's abortion laws. Plus, the political spectrum will probably move left because of the many swing voters who will not vote Republican because the issue will be off the table. So it seems like a winner for the left, the Democrats and the Pro Choice side. 1. Pro Lifers will not have Roe to kick around 2. The American Pro Choice majority will ensure, through the legislature, that abortion remains legal 3. Many swing voters will move to the left side of the ledger Edited by dontracy 2005-10-14 9:56 AM |
| 2005-10-14 10:06 AM in reply to: #265196 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: politics: what i don't get... (rant) dontracy - 2005-10-14 9:52 AM If it's true that a majority of Americans want abortions laws to remain exactly as they are then what's the problem? If Roe is overturned then that majority will not vote to make it illegal. So why worry? Hang on. What I said is that your poll indicates a majority of Americans do not want abortion laws to be overturned. I'm not really worried. Whatever happens, we're going to be okay. It's a contentious decision for many reasons, one being that it looks like judicial legislation. That's something you don't like, right? Not sure what you are referring to. So if it's overturned because it was not a sound decision on legal grounds, the the Right to Life side won't have it to kick around anymore. But that would hardly solve their problem, would it? The no-abortion crowd's ultimate goal is the criminalization of abortion. Are they really going to say "We won. Roe v Wade is overturned. We still have legal abortion but hey, that wasn't the real issue anyway?" And if, as you believe, the majority wants to keep the laws as they are, then the Pro Choice side will still have it's abortion laws. Let's not attribute your poll numbers to my beliefs (think I covered that). I have no idea what would erupt in this country with the overturning of Roe v Wade. Plus, the political spectrum will probably move left because of the many swing voters who will not vote Republican because the issue will be off the table. Dunno. |
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