Hashers and Mashers - Closed (Page 4)

Thanks, Sarah!  I'm in Fresno, actually, but I spend a lot of time up in Sacramento.  I'm there a couple times a month for work and usually one weekend a month to visit family.

Cool chart!  I haven't been tracking my yards for Masters but I'll do so starting today.

Hi Joe!  I assume you were addressing me in this post.  Let me start by explaining myself a little better and maybe my "end of the list" performance may make more sense.  I've been an avid weight lifter 5 days a week for years.  I've always enjoyed lifting weights, though I'm no body builder by any stretch.  Oddly enough, I lost and have kept off 20 lbs. with very little cardio,  just smaller portions, and lifting weights.  In the past, I've been an avid short distance runner (5 miles or so 3-4 times a week).  I had a bad bout of plantar faciatis (sp?) last year so my running ceased.

Just this month, I've actually decided that this is the year for me to triathlon after 12 years of procrastinating. So here's my plan...bear with me:

Through this month, Jan. 2013, I'm going to continue my lifting schedule of 5 days/week and also add 4 days a week running.   At the beginning of February I'm starting a Masters program which I hope to get in 2-3 workouts a week.  I plan to stop lifting at this point or at least drop off significantly.  My reason for the Masters program is that I haven't swam in a year or so, so rather than get my swimming fitness back before working on technique, I would like some good technique first rather than practicing bad habits.  I haven't been coached in swimming since I was a competitive swimmer as a child so I'm looking forward to the instruction.

The bike:  Well, I don't have one yet!  I want to make absolutely sure I will stick with my short term goals before forking out the money.  Additionally, I don't really know what to buy. Oh I've researched and researched but I'm torn with the pay now or pay later theories.  Buy what will work but maybe not the best or buy the best I can afford and know that I won't be wanting to upgrade in 6 months.  Anyway, my plan is to wait till March to purchase the bike whether $$ or $$$$$.

Joe, I do have a jogging stroller that gets used by my wife quite a bit.  If I start having to spend more and more time away working out, I will take advantage of that stroller as a way to get the boys out and to give my wife some much needed alone time.

If anyone has any suggestions and or criticisms with my "plan", I welcome your thoughts and I appreciate being allowed to participate in this group. 

As promised here is my story

NAME: Charlie Moore (chmoore2)


STORY:   I am 37, 38 in February, happily married with 2 boys 8 and 10 years old.   About three years ago I decided to get serious about trying to get healthy and focused on weight loss with Medical supervision (no surgery, but pretty restrictive diet).  Over the course of about 5 Months or longer I went from 280 down to around 200.  I wanted to make sure I didn't blow it so I started doing tris as a way to keep myself busy.  I 2010 I did two sprint distance tris, and in 2011 I did 4 sprints and a 70.3.   2 of the tris were the same from the previous year and saw huge improvements.   While doing this I maintained my weight around 210 - 215, while still not thin I was pretty happy with the way I looked and felt.  Not many people can do a 70.3 in 95 degree heat, so I was thrilled.

January 2012 I broke my foot playing basketball, and that essentially ended my season.  I wasn't able to run or bike, and didn't get cleared until late September 2012.  This sucked and I don't love swimming so that went away as well.  Well I gained alot of weight back up to 260 and most of it in August - November.  

I have since come down to 235 and plan on doing more tris this season to help keep it off and to take off more.

FAMILY STATUS: Married with two boys 8 and 10


CURRENT TRAINING:  Just started to get into a plan to ramp up slowly for a running race in March and a 10 miler in May.


2012 RACES: None


2013 RACES: TBD


WEIGHTLOSS: yup

GOALS: HIM in October on Long Island.

Welcome to the group!  

I've never been into strength training.  I should but have not.    I have heard many people say that it's actually better for weight loss than cardio!   And yes I believe that.   

  And of course  having added muscle strength, is not a bad thing.   And at 5 days a week you most certainly are avid!   

     However...   you are correct that strength training is only going to get you so far in Tri.   

Since you were a competitive swimmer in your youth, I can imagine that will come back to you.    And since you have the running experience.    So that part you have a good idea on what to expect.

The bike,  ah yes the bike. 

We like to say "it's all about the bike"   not exactly true,  but you do need to start REALLY liking the bike.     And do not over complicate it.        Right now my suggestion is to buy a USED road bike.   Yes USED   get yourself some clip on aero bars and some clipless pedals and a helmet.       Start looking now.   and get on a bike.       THEN you will know exaqctly what you want for your "forever" bike.   

  Seriously  TRI is hard.   Indeed In my opinion,  you need to go into "maintenance mode"  in strength training  and stop thinking about it.     Start dreaming about the bike.     It's all about the bike,  did I say that before?     Sorry if this sounds arrogant or whatever.          

The swim-  While it scares alot of people... really is just a warm up.     The bike  is the trickiest part.   Use too much energy and you cannot run very well.   Don't use enough and you have lost a great deal of time.    The best thing you can do, given what you have stated, is start riding as soon as you can. 

Chrispy,

  Hmmm  I'd go ahead and set up with Aero bars.  No one will think anything when they pass. 

It simply uses less energy.    Feeling silly is optional, but should probably come after wanting to save time/effort on the bike. 

Silly would be putting your aero helmet on backwards.   Or Pinning your bib # to your wetsuit.  LOL   I have seen both of these.      But I have never ever thought any less of a rider who I am passing cause they were are on their aero bars.    

No worries.       Really it's a matter of getting the bars and getting used to them. Use 'em as little or much as you want.  But It's a good idea to start trying to ride with them as soon as you can. 

jmholzman - 2013-01-24 12:31 AM

It's all about the bike

Well that is the opposite of what I was hoping to hear! I can swim and run to my heart's content but it is hard to find time to dedicate to the bike. I'm going to need to focus on this and find a way.

That's right!  focus on your weak link!   While its best to have lots of time on the bike,  quality time matters.   So wear a heart rate monitor and go hard.    I believe a 20 mile effort that takes about an hour to complete is worth more, than a 40 mile effort done at much lower intensity.     Really  I feel the same way about running.  The faster you run, the faster you will get.   Yes its NOT advised to run that hard usually,  as you may find yourself injured without a good base to work from.

 The bike is much more forgiving that way.  You can go hard from the get go, and still come back the next day and be able to go hard again.   So maybe you do not need as much time as you think?     Also if you have a bike trainer, you don;t have all that setting up to do to "go for a ride"   But yes there is cost involved. 

oriolepwr - 2013-01-24 4:19 PM

jmholzman - 2013-01-24 12:31 AM

It's all about the bike

Well that is the opposite of what I was hoping to hear! I can swim and run to my heart's content but it is hard to find time to dedicate to the bike. I'm going to need to focus on this and find a way.

That's right!  focus on your weak link!   While its best to have lots of time on the bike,  quality time matters.   So wear a heart rate monitor and go hard.    I believe a 20 mile effort that takes about an hour to complete is worth more, than a 40 mile effort done at much lower intensity.     Really  I feel the same way about running.  The faster you run, the faster you will get.   Yes its NOT advised to run that hard usually,  as you may find yourself injured without a good base to work from.

 The bike is much more forgiving that way.  You can go hard from the get go, and still come back the next day and be able to go hard again.   So maybe you do not need as much time as you think?     Also if you have a bike trainer, you don;t have all that setting up to do to "go for a ride"   But yes there is cost involved. 

Joe - I second the trainer suggestion. It is a bit of an upfront cost, but well worth it if you use it. I use my treadmill and trainer excessively, and it has allowed me more time with the kids (and babysitting costs). Sometimes my kids even cheer me on and bring me water...sometimes!!

Yeah.  Money is tight in the Holzman house right now.  After already having spent the money on a new bike it is difficult for me to justify money on extras for the bike.  Maybe something I will look at for next season, but for this one I'm going to have to go without.  Also, I have an elliptical in the house and I can't use it because my 1 year old doesn't understand he can't approach it while I'm on it, and if he can see me on it all he wants is to approach me...I think I'd have the same issue with a bike trainer.

Meanwhile I do find myself in the position of having to buy a new tire.  My rear tire kept popping, and today I saw the stock tire (Michelin Dynamic) has a cut.  Not a fan of flats, so at least for training I've ordered a conti gatorskin.  Will get here early next week.

I can find time to bike, just going to have to be creative about it.

Welcome to the group!  

I've never been into strength training.  I should but have not.    I have heard many people say that it's actually better for weight loss than cardio!   And yes I believe that.   

  And of course  having added muscle strength, is not a bad thing.   And at 5 days a week you most certainly are avid!   

     However...   you are correct that strength training is only going to get you so far in Tri.   

Since you were a competitive swimmer in your youth, I can imagine that will come back to you.    And since you have the running experience.    So that part you have a good idea on what to expect.

The bike,  ah yes the bike. 

We like to say "it's all about the bike"   not exactly true,  but you do need to start REALLY liking the bike.     And do not over complicate it.        Right now my suggestion is to buy a USED road bike.   Yes USED   get yourself some clip on aero bars and some clipless pedals and a helmet.       Start looking now.   and get on a bike.       THEN you will know exaqctly what you want for your "forever" bike.   

  Seriously  TRI is hard.   Indeed In my opinion,  you need to go into "maintenance mode"  in strength training  and stop thinking about it.     Start dreaming about the bike.     It's all about the bike,  did I say that before?     Sorry if this sounds arrogant or whatever.          

The swim-  While it scares alot of people... really is just a warm up.     The bike  is the trickiest part.   Use too much energy and you cannot run very well.   Don't use enough and you have lost a great deal of time.    The best thing you can do, given what you have stated, is start riding as soon as you can. 

I swam a 25:20 1500 today.  I am very excited about this, that is a great improvement for me over where I was last year.  I know the pool is not the same as open water, but still.  I'm thrilled with that time.

Of course, after I finished the coach told me that my kick is so inefficient that I'd be better off just doing 1500 pull and keeping my legs straight behind me.  Gave me some pointers, got stuff to work on.

That's great!  My swim is absurdly slow.  I like Dave's philosophy...the swim is just a warm up.    Wow...that coach seems super motivating...haha...

I'm in! Been MIA due to family emergency and having to go back home for a week but all is well now. 

Must get back in the swing of things!

Yvonne

Yeah, her point was that my kick is not just inefficient, it's actually counterproductive.  Hard to describe through written word, but her logic made sense.  She said it's a common issue related to feeling unbalanced in the water and using your legs to balance out.  In the long run I can work on getting a better kick, but I'm perfectly happy keeping my legs straight behind me.  Especially in a wetsuit.  She did note that when I do a strong set for speed my kick is better. 

I completely agree with that philosophy; I'm just trying to stay long and as efficient as possible so that I can exit the swim feeling good.  I know people don't win tri's due to the swim.  An exercise in that: I was analyzing results from the 2012 HITS Napa Olympic in prep for this year, and I put the numbers into Excel and broke it down by percentiles, etc.  What I showed was (for that specific race) the difference between the top 25% and the top 50% in the swim was 6:31, in the bike 12:48, and the run 9:51.  If Person A was top 25% in the swim but 50% in the bike and Person B was 50% in the swim but 25% in the bike, Person B would pass Person A after B had been biking for 39:44, or 12.5 miles, about halfway.  By the time A finished the bike, B would already be almost a mile into the run.

And the coach was much more subtle about it than I put it.  But the meaning was the same.

She's not my normal coach, and I don't think she was aware at the time that I only do Masters to train for tri.  My normal coach knows this and has been focusing on tweaking my stroke from the hips up.  Really in the last month or so I've seen great results, he's an outstanding coach.

And the data you created is for an OLY!     The swim in an olympic distance tri  is proportionally longer than other Tri distances.    So the swim being a "warm up"  is even more true in other distances  like 70.3  140.6   

This being the case, still someone who is a better swimmer should obviously gain as much time as they can.       I mean save time where ever you can get it, just make sure it does not come at a cost elsewhere.     

    I toss the "warm up" thing  out there,   really cause people seem to over-think  the swim portion of Tri.    

   It's not a good thing when that GUN goes off, and you and hundreds of other people hit the water at the same time.   Most of them trying to go out WAYYYYYY too fast, then burn out.    

  If you are thinking  "I'M RACING HERE"  In the swim, and you are not one of the best/better swimmers.     Perhaps with a ton of energy expenditure, you  can save some minutes.

       BUT...   

Then exit the water all disoriented   hit T1  proceed to  lose the time you gained by needing to get your head together before hitting the bike.    (yes I am guilty of doing this...)   

   I find it best to tell myself that yes it's just a warm up.   But you are racing.  So I try to go at a decent clip, but not trying to win anything,  If I feel my heart racing,  I then repeat to myself  "Just warming up"     And I slow down.    Find some good feet to draft off of .   Think save as much energy as I can, but go in a straight line, and draft as much as possible.     Start visualizing towards the end of the swim, what I will do when exiting the water  (strip top down of suit before taking off goggles/cap)   and then on to exactly what I will do  in order during T1   

Sorry to hear it Yvonne!    Hope all is well now!

Yes not the same as open water. BUT you might find with a wetsuit on, and being able to draft off of others that  your time might actually be BETTER in open water.   SO there is some good news there.     Swimming straight  (sighting) is HUGE   There are many times I recall in Tri's where I have been concentrating on great technique, only to look up  to see where I am at, and I'm all off course.   There can be real hilarity with this.   

So to me,   pool time=open water time.     But you do need to practice open water.   The wave action can really throw you off.       Mike  remember that swim warm up we did in Green Bay?   LOL  funny stuff that was.  

I'm off to my Indoor Tri. 

I.

Will.

Not.

Panic.