Swimmer's Group (Olympic Distance Animals) - OPEN (Page 4)

The "listening to your body" thing is critical.  My problem is that this is my first full year of tri (well, at least in about 2 decades, so that previous experience is "stale"), and I'm playing the fatigue feeling a bit by ear.

At least I'm minimally (maximally, actually) going to do a 3:1 block for now.  In looking back at my run training over the winter, that was about what I would do for the 3 months prior to a couple HM's and a 10k (all "A" races with their own training blocks - 3 months each for the HMs and 2 months for the 10k) - with races on the 4th week of increasing length and a mini-rest-taper week leading up to it (but not at all a full race taper until the HM or 10k).  That felt about right.

It's interesting now getting back into the full swing of tri's and going for Oly's in that the overall volume and intensity are up, but the individual sport volume/intensity are not (and are lower for the run, if a bit higher now for riding that we have decent weather).  It will be a learning experience this year to see how that "feels" to the bod as I move through the season.

It'll take a couple seasons to dial in, I'm sure, but hopefully I'm close this year!!

Other folks' perspectives/experience also much appreciated.  Thanks!
Matt

Just woke up and saw this excellent discussion about swimming. FWIW I agree with Jason, and that swimsmooth site is excellence, although I will never be Mr Smooth, my strokes are too fast! The way I see the swim, is to pace yourself, it is all about the the rhythm and the only way to get that right is practice the correct technique, that way you save more energy for the bike and run (which incidentally is my weskness!).

I have been training pretty full on lately, but haven't done a ride outside for a little while, been concentrating on long runs, which for me is 10ks. Now they are feeling only slightly uncomfortable, with first 6ks the worst. I am getting used to this distance trying tombuild endurance.

Unfortunately work is getting very busy and I have Uni assignments due, (for my masters) so needless to say my stress currently is pretty high. Plan on completing this assignment on Quant statistics, which is doing my head in, then try and do the rest ready for May 30th. My Oly is on June 2nd which is coming up very quickly.

When you all count strokes per length, do you push off the wall, or start from a stop?

When I push off the wall, I surface just past the flags.  Usually about 8/16 (one arm/counting both) per 25yards, going from 1:teens to 1:40's per hundred (pretty consistent).

I've read that this is a slow strokes per minute, but also have heard that distance per stroke is a focus...

Any ideas about metrics here?

Thanks!

Matt

Moody1775 - 2013-05-13 7:47 PM Thank you all for the advice! Had a less than stellar swim practice today but will keep working on it Today 4 lanes were full of iron man guys and this gal was too afraid to ask for help but next time I will ask for some advice on my stroke! Very intimidating to ask for advice from a Pack of guys all with iron man tattoos hehe! I strength train 3-4 days and run or bike or swim 6 days, on the weekends I bike then run in the afternoon and swim in the mornings also fit in a swim durring the week so 3 swims a week right now. Also your pin pointed my weak core :/ but I will work on my swim with your tips thank you so much!!!

Don't let the big guys get you down and out. I often saddle up to really experienced swimmers in the pool and I just plow ahaed going back and forth. I have an app with a bunch of swimming drills on it, Stroke Builder. It wasn't free, but it was no more than $10.00. I have tried to use some of the drills, however, I find myself falling into bad technique habits over and over. I have to buckle down and really focus on what I am doing in the water.

Good luck! You will get it :-)

Working on stroke technique and distance is way more important for you right now. Stroke count is a little more advanced and kind of a gauge. If you are taking 25-30 strokes per 25 than obviously something is wrong with your technique and you should focus on that. Do a couple 25s and count your strokes to see where you are at now. Then a month later do it again to see if your improvement in technique is making you more efficient

I have a couple of questions for my up coming olympic race (July 22nd ish?)

What should my target long bike ride be going into the race?

What should my taper look like, one week?

Do I need to plan and test any nutrition for this race?  With sprints I eat before the race and then pack some gatorade on the bike. 

On another note, I would like to get rid of the baskets on my pedals and get some shoes and new pedals.  Any advice, recommendations, thoughts before I make this change on the bike?

Thanks 

Marcus

Matt:
Did you find her stuff useful (Sheila Taormina)? I looked this up because I see it advertsied everywhere and curiousity killed the cat. I can get everything but the tubing system locally, so if you fouund it useful (I won't be able to do the full 16 week program at this point before my tri), I would pick it up. It isn't all taht expensive.

Thanks!

Irene

PS: LOVE all the swimming talk !

Marcus:
My physio (who does Ironmans) told me to do gels or something similar on the bike portion of the Oly. Specifically, eat a gel (or whatever) when you get your comfortable pace and then eat one for every 20 minutes or so you are on the bike to keep your energy up. Then all you should need for the run is a bit of water. Also, hydrate on the bike as well. I hope this helps. I am of the motto (from running half marathon days) that neer try anything on race day that you have not tried before, so I guess incorporate the gel thing into a few workouts before the big day.

RE: Pedals.. I bought entry level clip in pedals. I have not used them on an acutal ride yet as the weather in canada is unpredictable and I only got in 2 actual outside rides before my super sprint last weekend. I have the cages too, but I don't tighten them. I am hoping to switch over to my clip ins and start practicing. I have specialized cycle shoes that were given to me (whoo hoo) and they are not tri specific, they are velcro and require socks (well, I wear socks in them). The pedals are Shimano PD-R450 SPD SL. They were bundled with the cleats for about $70 or $80 at my local bike shop. They are entry level pedals and they are not tight so I can unclip easily. I found them great on my indoor trainer. Just my two bits. I am a new to this crazy sport as well, so the veterans my have more to contribute.

Good luck :-) 

I totally agreee swimmer that I should be worrying /concentrating on distance and technique.  Today I didn't just go for distance.  Today in the pool I used a flutter board and did 200m of just kicking and 200m of using the pool buoy and using just my arms. Then did 600m of freestyle at a slow pace working on breathing rythem and technique.  I am more tired today of just doing that then of straight swimming.

Also I almost bought the Triathletes training bible at my local book store, what is the general feel of this book before I plunk down $30 to buy it?

And another mention on technique, I watched a lot of swimming videos on youtube at work last night and realised I should be rolling my hips more with each stroke.

I bought the book. However, I feel like it is something I could benefit more AFTER I do my first. I prefer the "Your First Triathlon" title by the same author. The Bible was just that. Everything one could possibly know about training. A little overwhelming for me. However, there are some drills and such in there that may be useful. I see some overlap with the Your First Triathlon title, but the Bible title goes above and beyond basics. Some of I don't understand (yet?)....

Marcus hopefully I can give you some good answers to your questions. 

1. Since in Oly is 40k you should be doing AT LEAST 25 miles so you know you can do the distance, but truthfully your long rides should be in the 2 1/2-3 hour range. This way you will get the endurance to ride much longer than 40k and be stronger for the run. 

2. Taper is very hard because everyone responds differently to different things. Typically my Oly taper is 2 weeks, but the first week is tough to tell because my volume only drops slightly from normal training weeks, then the week of the race I will pretty much cut the prior week in half. Volume/training time decreases, but intensity is still there.

3. YES you NEED to test your nutrition! Unless you enjoy having possible issues while on the course! As far as nutrition goes for an OLY, Typically you will want to get something small like a gel in your system 30 minutes before the swim. On the bike you want to consume 200-300 calories, for me I have a mixed bottle between my bars that is roughly 220 calories. I will make sure this is gone before I am done on the bike. On the run I will probably have 1 gel rougly 2 or 3 mile mark depending how I am feeling and then you should not take any more gels after mile 3, at this point it will not help you. 

Thanks Swimmer and Reenie,

That information defiantly helps.

Today I had a swim session and decided to count my strokes per 25 yrds.   I seem to fall between 18-20 strokes.  On a side note my shoulders tend to get tired during my session.  The bizarre thing today was they were tired in the first half and fine in the second half.  I assume this is a result of using too much shoulder during the pull phase and not enough lats, but I can seem to figure out how to change the muscle group doing the work.  Any thoughts or ideas?  

--Marcus

Nicely done Moody!