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Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 (Page 4)
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 2006-08-11 2:52 PM in reply to: #505781 |
Veteran  250  |  Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11What is with the Orange Crush, someone in the Georgia thread had that too and I thought I was going crazy.( italics added for effect) skunk, I checked your log and you have 2 bikes and rode 23 miles last month. Get out there and get some fresh air. Edited by donmck 2006-08-11 2:57 PM |
| 2006-08-11 3:01 PM in reply to: #509161 |
Veteran 159 Seattle | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11
Ahhh...but don't the corporations effectively control our purchases by their methods? only if you choose to buy. sure they make it harder with peer pressure, and sex etc., but no one ever forces you to buy an Xbox or Cup O Noodles. we have not been given choice when it comes to domestic monitoring. We can still vote to change the government officials. It's more difficult (especially nowadays) to force certain changes in corporations. sadly, i would say america is far better at voting with their money than they are with their politics/opinions. something like 40+ percent of the population do not vote for their elected officials, essentially saying they accept any nonsense the gov't throws their way. if enough sony products didn't deliver as promised, sony would go away. sure there's more to it than that, i'm generalizing. people get really mad when they spill hot coffee on themselves because Joe's Coffee didn't tell them it was hot, and sue and yell etc etc. loose a few rights, who cares? only when they find out that yelling at Joe is against the law will they figure it out. i agree that there is a fair amount of work involved with parsing the info the gov't must have access to. they also happen to have super computers (a bunch actually) that can emulate nuclear explosions in real time. i'm sure a 1TB text file going through a key word search is nothing. i'm sure they have fancy algorithms that profile everthing into niftly little categories that get the appropriate attention.
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| 2006-08-11 3:07 PM in reply to: #509173 |
Veteran 159 Seattle | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 donmck - 2006-08-11 12:52 PM What is with the Orange Crush, someone in the Georgia thread had that too and I thought I was going crazy.( italics added for effect) skunk, I checked your log and you have 2 bikes and rode 23 miles last month. Get out there and get some fresh air. Orange crush - August swim/run challenge, Orange is the team I'm on, we went with the avatar for August. yes, it's sad. 2 bikes no miles. this first tri thing has me in the pool when i would have time to ride. next week...
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| 2006-08-11 3:21 PM in reply to: #509190 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 skunkworxz - 2006-08-11 4:01 PM i agree that there is a fair amount of work involved with parsing the info the gov't must have access to. they also happen to have super computers (a bunch actually) that can emulate nuclear explosions in real time. i'm sure a 1TB text file going through a key word search is nothing. i'm sure they have fancy algorithms that profile everthing into niftly little categories that get the appropriate attention.
And that's sorta my point. People have this notion that someone is reading their emails, which is not true. A computer might scan it, maybe even file it, but I doubt 99% go any farther than that. So, does that mean your rights have been intruded upon? Is the government storing your email any different than your ISP storing your email? Sure, in some ways it is. But in others, it's not all that different. What is the level of privacy on electronic communications, anyways? |
| 2006-08-11 3:29 PM in reply to: #509223 |
Veteran 159 Seattle | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 And that's sorta my point. People have this notion that someone is reading their emails, which is not true. A computer might scan it, maybe even file it, but I doubt 99% go any farther than that. So, does that mean your rights have been intruded upon? Is the government storing your email any different than your ISP storing your email? Sure, in some ways it is. But in others, it's not all that different. What is the level of privacy on electronic communications, anyways? OMG - i'm laughing. I just read the first post in this thread and can't get over how many ways the thread has gone. your point is valid, the man is not reading everyone's email. i accept my ISP storing my mail, and if i have an issue with them i'll switch. i don't have that luxury with my gov't. as far as privacy on electronic comunication goes, i'm taking a break :-) define EC. VoIP - is that voice or data? etc etc. i think we are still in the infancy of where this will go.. i'm going to ride now :-)
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| 2006-08-12 8:12 AM in reply to: #509097 |
molto veloce mama 9311  | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 well, if he can find that original statistic. i usually take what bt'ers say at face value. we're honest people, right? i bet he saw that statistic somewhere, but must have taken it out of context (iraqis vs. all middle easterners, palestinians vs. all middle easterns). however, i have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when people overgeneralizing about such a huge number of people who cover a large geographic area, speak multiple languages, practice multiple religions, have vastly different cultures, etc, etc, etc. the middle east is a BIG place. to quote from wikipedia: In the Western world, the Middle East is generally thought of as a predominantly Islamic Arabic community defined by frequent war. However the area encompasses many distinct cultural and ethnic groups, including the Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, Azeris, Berbers, Chaldeans, Druze, Greeks, Jews, Kurds, Maronites, Persians and Turks. The main language groups include: Arabic, Armenian, Assyrian (also known as Aramaic and Syriac), Hebrew, Persian, Kurdish and Turkish. The corresponding adjective is Middle-Eastern and the derived noun is Middle-Easterner. Most Western definitions of the "Middle East" — in both established reference books and common usage — define the region as 'nations in Southwest Asia, from Iran (Persia) to Egypt'. Egypt, with its Sinai Peninsula in Asia, is often considered part of the 'Middle East', although most of the country lies geographically in North Africa. North African nations without Asian links, such as Libya, Tunisia and Morocco, are increasingly being called North African — as opposed to Middle Eastern (Iran (Persia) to Egypt-Asia) — by international media outlets. One widely used definition of "Middle East" is that of the airline industry, maintained by the IATA standards organization. This definition — as of early 2006 — includes Bahrain, Egypt, Iran (Persia), Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Palestinian Territory, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen. Edited by autumn 2006-08-12 8:14 AM |
| 2006-08-12 8:36 AM in reply to: #509112 |
molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 still haven't seen the jordan statistic. i'll give you palestine, which has a population of almost 4 million. so, that's 2 million in support of suicide bombings...against isrealis. there are 190 million people in the middle east. lets subtract the 2 million pro-bombing palestinians. 188 million. no doubt there are isrealis who are in favor of bombing...palestinians. no doubt there are some pro-boming folks in iraq and iran, and maybe jordon, but i bet it would put a small dent in 190 million. again, from your own links, 75% of people in several middle eastern countries believe the opposite, disapproving of suicide bombings and seeing "Islamic extremism as a threat to their countries." Edited by autumn 2006-08-12 8:37 AM |
| 2006-08-13 2:02 PM in reply to: #505781 |
Veteran 250 | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 The Jordan statistic is in the Pew poll I originally linked to. Again, I made no generalization, I said the majority in some countries. But honestly, if the best you can come up with is that only 25% of the population of most countries in the Middle East approve of mass murder, that is still a twisted part of the world. |
| 2006-08-13 2:54 PM in reply to: #505781 |
Member 43 Atlanta, GA | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 Ahhhhh-you have to love the beauty of being an American. So many different opinions, so many different voices, so many different emotions...all spoken freely and without fear. |
| 2006-08-13 7:30 PM in reply to: #510091 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 donmck - 2006-08-13 3:02 PM The Jordan statistic is in the Pew poll I originally linked to. Again, I made no generalization, I said the majority in some countries. But honestly, if the best you can come up with is that only 25% of the population of most countries in the Middle East approve of mass murder, that is still a twisted part of the world. I've made this point before, but the Muslim nations, by and large, don't have the luxury of conventional warfare. Terror tactics are the only options available for futhering their agendas. So if you buy into that line of thinking, is it so surprising that their citizens approve? Here in the US, we have the resources to wage conventional warfare. So that's what we do. So what you have is Muslim nations and western nations using different tactics to accomplish similar goals. And when you poll western citizens, similar numbers are in favor of the actions of their military. And moreso, they are more in favor in support of the foot soldiers. So why is it a huge surprise that the citizens of middle eastern nations are supportive of their foot soldiers? |
| 2006-08-13 8:05 PM in reply to: #510091 |
molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 donmck - 2006-08-13 2:02 PM The Jordan statistic is in the Pew poll I originally linked to. Again, I made no generalization, I said the majority in some countries. But honestly, if the best you can come up with is that only 25% of the population of most countries in the Middle East approve of mass murder, that is still a twisted part of the world. ummm... again, here is the exact quote from the article you linked to: "Nearly three-quarters of Moroccans and roughly half of those in Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia see Islamic extremism as a threat to their countries." how does 3/4 of people disapproving of islamic extremism translate into 25% approving of mass murder? you are making an assumption about the remaining 25%. that's like saying 5% of americans like doing triathlons, and assuming that the remaining 95% who don't race think all triathletes should be killed. Edited by autumn 2006-08-13 8:06 PM |
| 2006-08-13 8:10 PM in reply to: #510301 |
molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: Scripps poll: One-third see U.S. hand in 9/11 i see your point jim, but the 25% approving of mass murder is an imaginary statstic. a statistic that states 75% disapprove of islamic extremism can't be assumed to mean the remaining 25% approve of mass murder. |
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