Baowolf's Gettin It Done Group! (Open) (Page 4)

Yes, that is what I mean by a build cycle. That is to finish happy. I am not in the top 15th percentile, so that might be a bit of a stretch for this upcoming race for you. You have the basic fitness to build up a bit and finish the race nicely. People who are currently doing 5x the distance you are in each sport weekly,..... will race faster. But it is not always about where you place. If I place dead last in July's ironman, but still make the cutoff times I will consider that a win. Then I will rehab the foot and go do a faster race the next time.

Ha - I meant the 85th percentile - beating about 15%, not coming in last. My bad...

Just finished a 110 mile bike ride with 13.5 hours of biking this week (220 miles total). Running, well, not happening. gonna be a long IM for the run/walk/ crawl portion. One more build week then taper to race.

Can you give me some insight on tapering for a HIM in mid august. When to start, what to do etc. there is so much info out there it gets confusing and overwhelming.

Depending on what you want to do after your HIM you can take a 2 or 3 week taper. If it is your big race for the year you can take 3, if you are on the way a bigger race you can take as little as 1 week taper. Most folks do a 2 week taper for a non A race HIM. For an A race HIM 3 ish weeks.

If doing a 3 week taper... you have your long bike 4 weeks out, then 3 weeks out your bike ride is .6 x that length. So for an IM I go 114, 70, 50 race. For a HIM my long bike would be like 70 40 25 race for long bike (or something like that). Long run would be similar 16, 10, 5 race. Long swim 3000, 1800, 1000, race.

If you are running 4 days and biking 4 days a week, your 2nd taper week you might drop 1 of the bikes and 1 of the runs and then in your last taper week you just hit a short bike or 2 (10 miles 7 miles, run 2.5 miles 2 miles and swim 500 yards) Take the day before the race off entirely or just a short 1 mile jog to keep your legs fresh.

Let me know if anything isn't clear about that, I can go into more detail. You could also glance at a few plans and see what those last 2-3 weeks look like.

I am doing a half Iron Man in August. Does anyone have any advice on a carbohydrate powder?

I have used Infinate for years. I use a triple concentration (1100 calories) in one bottle and water in another bottle for a HIM for the bike portion. For an IM, I just have a 2nd bottle in my bike special needs bag. I premix it as it takes a bit of stirring to get all 6 scoops disolved in the 1 bottle. Like with anything, try it before you race with it. People respond differently to different food. In the race I drink 3-4 swallows of the high concentrated Infinite per 15 minutes and chase it with 4-5 swallows of water.

Long 116 mile bike in 101 F temps today. Last long bike before taper for 7/29 IM

I know it is a matter of personal preference but does anyone have any advice regarding what is a more comfortable bike, a cervelo p3 or a Quintana room kilo race edition. I'm 5'11" and both bikes are 56cm. Will that fit me? Again I know it is preference, fit etc. but im looking for loose advice. Both bikes are stock.

Sounds about right, I'm 5 9 on a 54 frame. You kind of have to ride them and see how they feel to get the difference. How much of a price difference? What type of hardware differences. Cervello is a better name in quality, but a bike is pretty much a bike, (given that they are both popular brands) usually the engine is the problem. Probably shoot for 105 or better gears and shifters.

Ironman Tomorrow, santa rosa, bib number 1844.

Hello ... I am excited to join this group (if possible!)

STORY: I am a 41 year old entrepreneur that is a total newbie to triathlons. I have always been an athlete of some sort (still play rec soccer, I am a decent 4.0 club tennis player) and I have toyed with CrossFit and other lifting programs. For those who snowboard, I am also a Level III certified snowboard instructor from AASI

When I turned 40, I had the NYC marathon on my bucket list and so I did it. Woefully undertrained, and injured but hobbled to a 5 hr finish. I was determined to do better and I trained, changed my stride, and logged 800 miles of technical training from a plan from RunnersConnect... all the the tune of only a 11 minute improvement.

I have realized that I am not meant for marathons. Running a half in less than 2 hours happily made me realize that as well. I was happy too after the half vs. feeling totally destroyed by marathon after.

I started triathlons because my wife asked me to do the Mighty Hamptons Tri this September ... She went from total couch potato to doing the NYC tri last month. I have been trying to be supportive of her getting her body back (not my words, hers) since kids and work have crept up on her. I helped coach her a bit for the NYC Tri and it was inspiring. I even ran bandit with her during the run through the park and I am now excited about my first tri.

Like most people, I am nervous about the open water swim, and should be more worried about the bike.

FAMILY STATUS: Married to my college sweetheart for 14 years. Three kids, boy girl boy, 12/10/8.

CURRENT TRAINING: Disorganized, but going to be joining the Olympic 2x 16 week plan mid stream. I have been running about 20 miles/week and still feel I have my base. Biking 40-50 miles/week and swimming 2x week in combination of pool and ocean (I hate waves!). I also still play soccer 2x week, and tennis 1-2x week. Get to do some lifting 1-2x/week.

PAST RACES: NYC Marathon 2015 (5:04), 2016 (4:53). Hook Mountain Half Marathon (1:59)

UPCOMING YEAR'S RACES: Mighty Hamptons Tri - Sept 2017

WEIGHTLOSS: I am 5'9" (5'10" on a good day) and 185 lbs ... I was measured at 13% body fat at my gym. I realized that my body build (athletic) might not really be great for time, but I am ok with that. I have struggled to try and get below 180 even during high volume points for the marathon, and have resigned myself to that. I love food and am a cook. I started running because I love to eat.

WHAT WILL MAKE ME A GOOD GROUP MEMBER: I will be a great group member because I am a nerd. I love data. I love support and frankly I know I know absolutely nothing. Finding a community was so helpful for me in my marathon, and it's awesome that this structure exists for Tris.

Thanks for welcoming me!

Edited by michaelwma 2017-07-29 7:23 AM

Welcome. Feel free to ask lots of questions, there are many things to know, especially if you want to go into longer races.

That said finished my IM in Santa Rosa Yesterday making all pace goals with injuries in place.

It takes a while to get faster in the longer events, like years if you aren't genetically gifted for it. 11 min off a marathon is pretty decent. I did a huge run program to qualify for Boston and took 25 minutes off. I ran about 1200 miles that year peaking at 55 miles per week, intervals, hill repeats, mile repeats, etc. I am happy to talk with you about any of that. If you have enough swim yards in and you practice in open water with decent sighting you should be fine in the swim. Just avoid the high traffic areas if you want to not get bumped too much.

Questions:
Do you have all the gear you need, good shoes, 2 piece tri outfit, bike, wetsuit if swimming in cold water, race number belt, etc.?

Thanks and congrats on the IM!

I am good on shoes. I bought a 1 piece Pearl Izumi tri suit, but could be changed. I ordered a tank 3/4 wet suit with high reviews on amazon. should be coming in a bit. they were out of stock on what I ordered a month ago, but should still be able to get some good yardage in it.

Right now, the open water swim scares me. I did 30 min in the rough ocean waves yesterday and then another easier 30 min in the pool today. I know the plan says to do more, but I am just still working up to it.

I ordered a race number belt as well. I am good on my bike and just did 41 miles on Saturday and it felt great. I installed aerobars and still getting used that technique too.

Do you have equipment recs?

It kind of depends on how long you are going to race. A 1 piece tri suit doesn't really matter if you do not have to use the restroom during a race. But if you are doing an IM and have to use the restroom 3 times or so it takes a while and is awkward to use the toilet if not in a two piece.

Clip in shoes are easier on races once you get used to them for the bike, but take a bit of getting used to the first week or two.

I prefer sleeveless wetsuit to keep arms free, but that is a personal choice.

If you race longer/farther, then having an aerobottle is really helpful, but doesn't matter if you are only going to go through 1 bottle of water in your race.


You don't need a gps watch for races or workouts, but they are fun and help to follow specifically paced workouts.

For races longer than about 1 hour: calorie intake should be 200-300 calories per hour on the bike and 100-200 calories per hour on the run starting around 45 minutes into the race.

For race/rides: extra 2 tubes, CO2 cartridges and valve to fill tire, I also have a hand pump in case that doesn't do it.

Didn't think about the bathroom situation! Good call. I might still get a 2 piece then.


All good here. Have them and have used them already for ~500 miles.



Me too! Tried it on last night (just came).


Whoa! That's a bit overkill for me ... but it looks awesome. Saw this. https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/04/profile-aerobottle-computer.html



Have a Garmin Forerunner 235. No swim functions, but it serves me pretty well.



That's about my calorie intake running marathons, about 200/hr. On my last bike ride of 40 miles (2:50), I only felt the need to fuel about 100/hr, but perhaps I 1) wasn't at race pace, and 2) wasn't thinking about running 10K after. I will be watching that as I log more.



I have 1 tube CO2 valve and hand pump. I will reload before the race and more training too.

Thanks ... this is great.

No problem.

The calorie intake becomes more important the longer the race. You can do a 90 minute race with little impact on your performance taking in no calories. However if you do a 2 hour race and take in no calories you have a big risk of tanking that last 15 to 30 minutes. You have to digest the food, so you actually have to start the calories you need for the 90 minute mark (when you use up all the glucose in your blood) you have to eat it 30 minutes ago (45-60 minutes into the race). In longer races you take in most of your calories on the bike (2/3 of the calories consumed) because you cant eat while swimming (sushi?) and your stomach bounces around more on the run. So you set up the run by being fully fueled from the bike.

This doesn't matter so much for a sprint, it is slightly important for an Oly, but for a HIM or an IM it can make the difference between finishing or ending up in the med tent/DNF.

An IM usually requires 3000 calories intake, HIM 1500, Oly 300-400 calories, sprint 100 (if you are MOP).

Got it ... that makes total sense now

The dreaded HIM race nutrition stress. Doing my first HIM in 7 days. I have been practicing my nutrition for the last several weeks but now I feel so confused as to what to eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner as well as snacks each day for the next 7 days. Also I don't know why but I get so confused about race nutrition. I know I need 200-300 calories per hour on the bike and 100-200 on the run. If anyone could spell out exactly what to eat each day and what to eat/drink during the race that would be greatly appreciated.

holy crap i didn't realize i last posted in feb! sorry guys, quite busy with everything.

anyway, my first IM is 2 weeks away and i'm checking in to tell you how it's been going. my two warmup events went well, both PRs. 2:30:00 flat at rock hall oly distance, and 5:35:55 at rev3 williamsburg half. both went really well, i plan on posting a RR for the half soon.

my goal at the beginning of the year was 13 hours (1:20/6:40/5:00) at IM copenhagen, and I'm confident I can do so. Finished up two organized century rides (hilly ones, 6k+ ft gain each!) this past weekend and 2 weeks ago, and i plan on doing 1 more long run, maybe a 21-miler before i start my taper.

Good luck with your nutrition dr oz, i still have questions about that one but i'm starting to iron out things that i like. i eat the same things race morning. though i'm a bigger guy, 180lb, so i try to get 400-500 calories per hour on the bike/run. my HIM last month that meant 1 Gu every half hour, and 16 oz of gatorade, for the bike and the run. it's boring, my buddies think that's disgusting and too sugary, but it works for me. i also found water doesn't work for me at all. i gotta drink something with electrolytes. at IM though I just plan on taking advantage of whatever they have on course. i hear they even have soups sometimes?!

steve congrats on another solid race. i need to read up on your injuries but i hope you're recovering well.

as far as equipment goes, i wish i had a 2-piece. i'll be racing with a onesie for the IM. i also like sleeveless suits, but since water in denmark will be cold it'll be my first time in a full sleeve. maybe even a neoprene cap! steve, how many bottles of water do you keep on your bike? mine's set up for 4 right now. overkill? do you ever do a full-change after the bike?

attached is my bike! got some new things this year, including the zipp wheels, a pioneer power meter, and that xlab super wing in the back. i brought the handlebars up about 6cm compared to the setup for sprint/oly races to be more comfy during the longer IM ride.





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You are doing a 3 week taper right?
13 hours
Swim 1:20 1:51 mpm swim is doable given your practice paces, don't be disappointed with 1:30 when surrounded by 2700 swimmers.
Bike: 6:40 16.9 mph on the bike, a little hot looking at your long rides, but 7 hours is well within your grasp here.
Run: 5:00 11:30 is a reasonable pace given your training log. First 8 miles at 10:00 mpm, next 8 miles 11 mpm, next 8 miles 12 mpm and try to hold to the finish line.

Ballparking it from your last 2 months of workouts (not knowing how hard you were hitting your workouts) :
Swim + t1 = 1:40, Bike + t2 = 7:05, Run 5 hours = 13:45.
In contrast, your HIM of 5:35 x 2+1:00= 12:10.

Given both calculations methods you can expect a 12:45 to 13:30 IM if you hit everything right (not knowing how hill the course is or what temperature or wind you will face).

Pacing: Don't kill the swim, faster comfortable sustainable pace, come out of the water with something left in the tank. Bike: try to keep the first 25 miles at no faster than a 17.5 mph pace and then ease it up .1 mph per 10 miles after that if you are feeling really strong, hold at 18 mph over a 10 mile stretch. Run: start at 10 mpm pace, don't drop into the low 9s in the first 5 miles. If you are feeling solid at 10:00 mpm pace, just hold it there all day. There will be some slower drift on the 2nd half for most humans, especially for the first couple IMs.

I really can't recommend more than 300-350 calories per hour on the bike or more than 200-250 calories per hour on the run. Your stomach just can't digest more than that, no matter how much you put in. Gateraid and Gels is fine. If hot, however, you might want a 2nd bottle with some straight water in it to keep your mouth fresh and for a little extra hydration (if over 85F).

I find sleeveless wetsuit fine in water temp of 55F or higher. I would add neopreme cap and neopreem booties (if allowed) for 60F or colder swim before going full sleeved, but a personal choice.

There is no need to do a 21 mile run ever in IM training. Your longest run should be around 18 miles or 2:30:00. At this point you are trained, get to the starting line healthy, execute your pace and nutrition/hydration and you will be under 14 hours. Lets say you blow up, you can still walk it in under 15 hours.

In sum, you got this, learn a lot, remmeber to get suntan loation, chapstick, bodyglide.

I never change during an IM, trisuit all the way. Two piece is easier to hit the restroom during the race. I usually pee before race, 1x after swim, 1x on the bike maybe 2 depending, 1 time on run maybe 2 depending.

Water intake for a 65F race is way less than for an 85F race which is way less than a 95F + race.

Cooling strats in hot race include water over back on bike every stop, water over back/down front on run, ice down front for hot 95F+ race especially if high humidity.

Ask any questions if any part of this doesn't make sense.

If this were your 5th IM and I knew your training better, and you weren't afraid of blowing up....you could hit a 12:30. For this you would hit your swim and bike paces, but hold a faster run pace. The first one is to get it done without blowing up so you learn what to do on the next one.

This is all awesome info, thanks Steve! Regarding my long rides, they were both hilly centuries, and I had 2 or 3 buddies I was riding with so I think my most recent half is a bit more indicative (and similar profiles): I held 19mph is really low Z2 (141bpm avg), so I’m confident in my bike. The run will be my biggest challenge. I take it very easy on the swim. I’ll take your advice and start the bike around 17.5 mph.

I’m on a 2 week taper plan. Maybe I will skip that last long run. Thanks.

Regarding nutrition, I mentioned I was following Don Fink’s be iron fit plan, and his book mentioned 500 cal/hr on the bike and run. BUT my math was wrong; I took 2 gu's per hours (once every 30 mins) and 16 oz gatorade, which is 160 cals, so that's 360 cals/hr. that was my recipe for success for HIM distances, and my plans for long bikes and runs

This race will be likely 60-70 deg, about 60 deg water. My buddies are thinking about a neoprene cap as well. I might get one, but worried the chin strap might chafe. Any neoprene cap recommendations?

Thanks again for the vote of confidence!

my rev3 RR is ready: https://racing.phifatech.com/rev3wburg/


Edited by phifatech 2017-08-08 12:31 PM

Just wanted to offer thanks to those that provided me with answers to my questions regarding equipment, nutrition etc. Just completed my first HIM and was very pleased with how everything went. The swim was in Lake Michigan with 3 to 4 foot waves and I did my swim in 38 minutes. The bike was on rolling hills with a handful of killer Hills and I did 2 hours 38 minutes. Not trying to sound like I'm bragging. I'm just giving those times because those are great times for a very first HIM and this forum helped me achieve this goal. Thanks again.

dr oz congrats on the HIM, those are great times, you should be proud!

did my first IM and it went awesome. didn't hit my goals but i came close enough to be proud of myself. i wanted a 1:20 swim, did it in 1:11. i was hoping for a 6:40 bike and ended up at 7:09. i was battling strong winds, hills (5000+ft gain), and some downpouring rain during the bike and run, so i did what i could. marathon was in 5:03, my goal was 5:00. total time was 13:45 (goal was 13:00) but i had such a blast, can't wait for the next one. rr soon!