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Gray Guys/Girls Master's Focus Triathlon Mentor Group--CLOSED (Page 40)
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 2015-06-03 3:45 PM in reply to: EchoLkScott |
 270  |  Subject: Nice complement from OWS coach...I did an open water swim clinic last Thursday. The coach was the same as we had at the 8-week OWS class last summer. He said he was "amazed by how much my swimming has improved". I was staying with the front pack of swimmers whereas, last summer, I was mostly in the back pack - or swimming alone behind the back pack. It was nice to get complemented on my swimming. I'm still, for the most part, the slowest swimmer on my masters team. I know that I've gotten faster, but the gap between me and most of the team is so large that it can be depressing at times. Nearly everyone on the masters team was a collegiate swimmer. Most members of the tri-team are adult-onset swimmers like myself. Big difference! |
| 2015-06-03 5:22 PM in reply to: 0 |
Regular 1126  East Wenatchee, Washington | Subject: RE: How Far Should I Swim in Training for My Triathlon? Originally posted by EchoLkScott Originally posted by k9car363 Hey everyone, Sorry I have been AWOL. You do NOT want to be swimming long steady state swims - that is an absolute waste of time. Using that formula, here are the ranges for each of the race distances (the race distance is in meters, then I converted to yards as most people train in a short course yards pool.
If you want to be a front of the pack swimmer, you should be swimming 2.0 - 3.0 times the race distance per workout 4-times per week. Dang, I didn't notice this before. I need to up my workout distances. I've been averaging in the low 2000's per workout. That's close to the lower end of the Olympic range Thanks! Scott No doubt Scott will have solid swim advice. However, I fully appreciate your situation. I had exactly the same challenge last year in training for my HIM. The pool didn't open until 5:30 a.m., which meant I had to hustle to be in the water at 5:35. I had to be to work at 7:00 which put a fixed limit on my pool time. Allowing for post-workout shower and commute time, my swim was one hour max. For me that meant a hard 2500-2800 yards was about all a slow swimmer like me could complete in that limited time. I could usually opt for a longer swim on Saturday, but not always. Weekends were the days I put in long runs/rides...so I wasn't really motivated to go long in the water as well. With this level of training, I could still manage to stay in the top 20-25% of my 55-59 AG field. I was certainly not FOP, but my swim was acceptable given the available pool time. I'm definitely not suggesting that the workout levels suggested by Scott aren't preferable--they are--it just wasn't an option for me given my schedule and the available pool hours. How much time could be saved with more pool work? For me I was in the 37-39 minute range on the HIM swim. Best in the 55-59 AG was around 29-30, with most toward the FOP AG swimmers at 32-33 or so. So, I concluded my under-training on the swim had a total opportunity cost of around 5-8 minutes. Given that I'm a crappy swimmer, I believe with better swim training I would be no worse than 34-35. So, with better swim workouts I probably would have had a time handicap of about 2-3 minutes max (on all but the best). I rationalized that I had a reasonable shot of making up lost swim time on the bike and run legs. In those areas I had more training flexibility and have more natural ability. Realistically, I can't make up any time on the superior athletes as they beat me in the swim, the bike and the run. But against the vast majority of the pack, its' not an unreasonable strategy to know that one can train to offset a swim deficit and still be reasonably successful. Unfortunately, this is not likely to be a a podium strategy but I concluded I could still finish well. At the Florida 70.3 I was 14/64 overall. At Boise I was in 5th at mile 52...until crashing. In that event I truly was finished, just not very well. Good luck! Steve Edited by lutzman 2015-06-03 5:25 PM |
| 2015-06-03 6:57 PM in reply to: EchoLkScott |
| 238 Farmington, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Nice complement from OWS coach... Scott, Congrats on your swim improvement. Its great to hear that you've had so much success. As a second year swimmer, I"m facing a similar challenge. I've just added a 4th swim each week, because while I'm confident in my HIM bike and run training, I think about that (darn) swim EVERY SINGLE DAY.  Dave |
| 2015-06-03 8:55 PM in reply to: DJP_19 |
| 270 | Subject: RE: Nice complement from OWS coach... Originally posted by DJP_19 Scott, Congrats on your swim improvement. Its great to hear that you've had so much success. Thanks Dave! As a second year swimmer, I"m facing a similar challenge. I've just added a 4th swim each week, because while I'm confident in my HIM bike and run training, I think about that (darn) swim EVERY SINGLE DAY. Dave In a little over a week, I'll get a better feel for how my HIM swim will go. I've entered a 1.2 mile OWS race (Lake Meridian Friday Night Swim Race). It should be fun! |
| 2015-06-03 9:10 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 1704 Penticton, BC | Subject: RE: start up your training plans...
Scott - I don't know how I missed this message. That is quite a coincidence we're at the same place. My workout buddy and I will be there 4 nights (Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun). If they need more volunteers I may help out on Sunday. Usually my wife comes along but unfortunately not this time. Won't be long now. Edited by wenceslasz 2015-06-03 9:37 PM |
| 2015-06-03 9:32 PM in reply to: EchoLkScott |
Official BT Coach 18500  Indianapolis, Indiana Gold member | Subject: RE: How Far Should I Swim in Training for My Triathlon? Originally posted by EchoLkScott Dang, I didn't notice this before. I need to up my workout distances. I've been averaging in the low 2000's per workout. That's close to the lower end of the Olympic range (doing Oly's this summer) but substantially below the HIM range (first HIM is September). I can't really increase the yardage during the hour Masters workout, so I'll need to stay an extra 30 to 45 minutes. That's going to be tough - I'm usually pretty wiped-out by the end of the masters workout. Scott, how much benefit do you lose by doing the additional yardage in a second workout the same day? Or, in doing more workouts per week? Thanks! Scott, There is nothing lost by doing two swim workouts a day. Back when I was swimming, I would put in about 5,000 meters in the A.M., then about 8,000 meters in the evening. I got the benefit of 13,000 meters, but didn't have to be in the pool for five continuous hours. You can do multiple workouts per day or add additional workouts per week. The important thing is the total yardage. |
| 2015-06-03 9:36 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Extreme Veteran 1704 Penticton, BC | Subject: RE: How Far Should I Swim in Training for My Triathlon? Steve - I'm getting pretty excited about Chelan. It should be a fun weekend. I'm hoping it won't be too hot. Last year (July 13th) I rode our local GranFondo in 112degF heat. It wasn't as bad as a death march but it was pretty bad. I also wouldn't mind if it is overcast and calm winds but I hope I'm not asking too much.
Scott - I started doing intervals in the pool as soon as you told me about them in May and I felt it made improvements almost immediately. I really enjoy them and I'd like to think they make me feel stronger in the water. Not to suggest I'm anything more than average but I do feel good in the water. Just now I am swimming in Tuc el Nuit Lake which is 1km (1016m) north to south and 600m east to west so I have been breaking it up to approx 600m intervals which may be a bit too long but next swim I'll try the count intervals aiming for 100 left arm strokes then rest. Soon, I will be able to swim in Okanagan lake which is considerably bigger than Tuc (and nicer in every way). At Okanagan we have a line of 30# buoys spaced approx 30m apart so once I get into the lake I figure I can swim 4 buoys then slow swim/rest for 2 buoys. We usually swim from "The Peach" to "The Sicamous" and back again for an almost perfect 1900m swim. It won't be hard at all to do the intervals and I might even improve my siting. Thanks for the great help. |
| 2015-06-03 11:07 PM in reply to: wenceslasz |
Regular 1126 East Wenatchee, Washington | Subject: RE: How Far Should I Swim in Training for My Triathlon? Originally posted by wenceslasz Steve - I'm getting pretty excited about Chelan. It should be a fun weekend. I'm hoping it won't be too hot. Last year (July 13th) I rode our local GranFondo in 112degF heat. It wasn't as bad as a death march but it was pretty bad. I also wouldn't mind if it is overcast and calm winds but I hope I'm not asking too much. George--hopefully it will be a great day. Most of the time in the summer the Lake Chelan is glass smooth in the morning. You can look down 20 feet and see the cable running along the swim course. You never have to lift your head to sight,...just look down and follow the cable. It's fabulous. Steve |
| 2015-06-04 9:46 AM in reply to: lutzman |
| 270 | Subject: RE: How Far Should I Swim in Training for My Triathlon? Originally posted by lutzman Scott No doubt Scott will have solid swim advice. However, I fully appreciate your situation. I had exactly the same challenge last year in training for my HIM. The pool didn't open until 5:30 a.m., which meant I had to hustle to be in the water at 5:35. I had to be to work at 7:00 which put a fixed limit on my pool time. Allowing for post-workout shower and commute time, my swim was one hour max. For me that meant a hard 2500-2800 yards was about all a slow swimmer like me could complete in that limited time. I could usually opt for a longer swim on Saturday, but not always. Weekends were the days I put in long runs/rides...so I wasn't really motivated to go long in the water as well. With this level of training, I could still manage to stay in the top 20-25% of my 55-59 AG field. I was certainly not FOP, but my swim was acceptable given the available pool time. I'm definitely not suggesting that the workout levels suggested by Scott aren't preferable--they are--it just wasn't an option for me given my schedule and the available pool hours. How much time could be saved with more pool work? For me I was in the 37-39 minute range on the HIM swim. Best in the 55-59 AG was around 29-30, with most toward the FOP AG swimmers at 32-33 or so. So, I concluded my under-training on the swim had a total opportunity cost of around 5-8 minutes. Given that I'm a crappy swimmer, I believe with better swim training I would be no worse than 34-35. So, with better swim workouts I probably would have had a time handicap of about 2-3 minutes max (on all but the best). I rationalized that I had a reasonable shot of making up lost swim time on the bike and run legs. In those areas I had more training flexibility and have more natural ability. Realistically, I can't make up any time on the superior athletes as they beat me in the swim, the bike and the run. But against the vast majority of the pack, its' not an unreasonable strategy to know that one can train to offset a swim deficit and still be reasonably successful. Unfortunately, this is not likely to be a a podium strategy but I concluded I could still finish well. At the Florida 70.3 I was 14/64 overall. At Boise I was in 5th at mile 52...until crashing. In that event I truly was finished, just not very well. Good luck! Steve Thanks Steve! That's good to know. My goal for the September HIM is to have nice steady swim (MOP would be great) and have plenty of energy left for the bike and run. I'll work on getting fast after I complete my first HIM. Thanks! |
| 2015-06-04 9:52 AM in reply to: k9car363 |
| 270 | Subject: RE: How Far Should I Swim in Training for My Triathlon? Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by EchoLkScott Dang, I didn't notice this before. I need to up my workout distances. I've been averaging in the low 2000's per workout. That's close to the lower end of the Olympic range (doing Oly's this summer) but substantially below the HIM range (first HIM is September). I can't really increase the yardage during the hour Masters workout, so I'll need to stay an extra 30 to 45 minutes. That's going to be tough - I'm usually pretty wiped-out by the end of the masters workout. Scott, how much benefit do you lose by doing the additional yardage in a second workout the same day? Or, in doing more workouts per week? Thanks! Scott, There is nothing lost by doing two swim workouts a day. Back when I was swimming, I would put in about 5,000 meters in the A.M., then about 8,000 meters in the evening. I got the benefit of 13,000 meters, but didn't have to be in the pool for five continuous hours. You can do multiple workouts per day or add additional workouts per week. The important thing is the total yardage. So 9,600 to 12,600 yards per week. I can get into that range with either 5 workouts a week or 4 extended workouts a week. That's doable! Thanks Scott! |
| 2015-06-05 7:48 AM in reply to: EchoLkScott |
| 238 Farmington, Connecticut | Subject: Weekend plans Hi all, Getting an early start to the weekend by taking today off. A couple of us are heading out to do an OWS at the lake where my Oly race will be held on the 20th. Should be a good chance to gauge my swim progress. Its going to be chilly, though, with a water temp of about 58-60 degrees. Happy training. Dave |
| 2015-06-05 8:42 AM in reply to: DJP_19 |
| 270 | Subject: RE: Weekend plans My first triathlon of the year is tomorrow: the Lake Wilderness Olympic Distance. I'm feeling pretty good - just a tiny-bit of Achilles tendonitis - and I'm excited to get the season started! |
| 2015-06-05 12:42 PM in reply to: EchoLkScott |
| 344 Spencer, New York | Subject: RE: Weekend plans I'll be doing Keuka Lake Tri on Sunday, sprint distance. I did it 2 years ago and got so off course on the swim the kayaks had to come chase me back. My time has to be considerably better this time. (I was just focusing on good form, and relaxing; forgot all about sighting!) All alone in my AG. In fact, there's only 1 woman in the next younger AG, 60-64. I would rather have competition, though, and the camaraderie. Deb |
| 2015-06-05 4:42 PM in reply to: ok2try |
| 238 Farmington, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Weekend plans Good luck, Scott and Deb. Looking forward to hearing your reports. |
| 2015-06-05 8:39 PM in reply to: DJP_19 |
Regular 1126 East Wenatchee, Washington | Subject: RE: Weekend plans |
| 2015-06-05 9:17 PM in reply to: lutzman |
Veteran 612 Kennebunkport, Qatar | Subject: RE: Weekend plans Hi Everyone, sounds like all of you are busy racing or preparing for races. Finally had a decent week of workouts although still just trying to get something in each day. Hopefully Monday will be nice enough to go for a swim with my club, I haven;t been in the water since last fall! should be interesting. i hope to get outside on my bike one day this weekend, but we'll have to see how much time i end up with. Still no plans for any races this year, I will just have to see if I can squeeze something in between the rest of life. Finally getting some decent weather up here in Maine, although it's still not very warm, but still early in the year. Good luck to everyone racing this weekend! Enjoy the journey Dan |
| 2015-06-06 8:01 AM in reply to: Mountaindan |
| 344 Spencer, New York | Subject: RE: Weekend plans Originally posted by Mountaindan Hi Everyone, sounds like all of you are busy racing or preparing for races. Finally had a decent week of workouts although still just trying to get something in each day. Hopefully Monday will be nice enough to go for a swim with my club, I haven;t been in the water since last fall! should be interesting. i hope to get outside on my bike one day this weekend, but we'll have to see how much time i end up with. Still no plans for any races this year, I will just have to see if I can squeeze something in between the rest of life. Finally getting some decent weather up here in Maine, although it's still not very warm, but still early in the year. Good luck to everyone racing this weekend! Enjoy the journey Dan Good to hear from you Dan. You can only do what you can do. Kudos for hanging in there. Deb |
| 2015-06-06 11:48 AM in reply to: ok2try |
| 90 | Subject: Coming back after break Hey everyone, It's been a rough few months. My 89 year old father's cancer came back and my family and I were caretaking around the clock. He peacefully passed away and am grateful for my family for all their support during this time. It made me realized how difficult this end of life stuff is and how important it is to have people to count on :-) So here I am, feeling like I am starting at ground zero. I gained 17lbs and wasn't consistent working out. Trying to get back on track. I started training for a triathlon in August to give myself something to focus on. Donna |
| 2015-06-06 1:27 PM in reply to: 0 |
Regular 1126 East Wenatchee, Washington | Subject: RE: Coming back after break--one year anniversary Sorry for your loss, Donna. Welcome back. Today is my one year anniversary since biting the pavement last year at Boise. I celebrated this morning with my FIRST outdoors ride on my bike since the crash. It was a little shaky, but not too bad. As expected, my fitness kind of sucks and pedaling up hills with an extra 20 lbs. doesn't help. But all things considered, it was OK. Stats are below. A lot of training ahead to get back my fitness! Edited by lutzman 2015-06-06 1:29 PM (6-6-15.png) Attachments ---------------- 6-6-15.png (215KB - 26 downloads) |
| 2015-06-06 7:20 PM in reply to: #5075155 |
| 33 | Subject: Anniversary ride @lutzman Congratulations on your ride. I am not sure the details but must of been substantial. .. we had a friend crash on that course a few years ago when my hubby was there participating. Either way, congratulations on your return to the pavement!! |
| 2015-06-06 11:28 PM in reply to: lutzman |
Extreme Veteran 1704 Penticton, BC | Subject: RE: Coming back after break--one year anniversary I volunteered at a Sprint and Oly race today - Body Marking and wetsuit stripping. The body marking at 6:30am was fun but the water was too warm so the races were "No Wetsuits". After the athletes panicked they all settled down and it went pretty well for them. I'm just now finally ready for my race tomorrow. Got my bike in to the Transition area overnight and all my gear is ready to go. I thought I was finished until I suddenly noticed my running shoes. I completely forgot them. I imagine it would be hard to run in flip flops or bike shoes. The Officials said they would take the lake temp at 6:00am and maybe it will be wetsuit legal but then they also said, "Don't want to bet on it." I'm slower without the wetsuit but I'm pretty confident I can manage without my wetsuit. Not really any different from a long-ish pool swim or 1000m TT. I'll post a race report tomorrow or Monday. The temperature reached 35C/95F today and it will be hotter tomorrow. I'm hoping to be finished before noon.
Dan - Glad to hear you're getting back on track again. Donna - Sorry for your loss. You are right about how important it is to have people you can count on. Now it is important to take care of yourself. Steve - Congrats on your 1st ride. Sounds like you've been through a lot over the last year. Might you know the policy on wetsuits and water temps at Chelan Man? |
| 2015-06-07 8:51 AM in reply to: wenceslasz |
Regular 1126 East Wenatchee, Washington | Subject: RE: Coming back after break--one year anniversary Originally posted by wenceslasz . Steve - Congrats on your 1st ride. Sounds like you've been through a lot over the last year. Might you know the policy on wetsuits and water temps at Chelan Man? Chelan is a very deep lake. It's rare for the water temp to get above the mid-60's. I've never heard a hint that any race would drop wetsuits. I guess it could happen, but I would bet you 10-1 you'll be in a wetsuit. Steve |
| 2015-06-07 3:46 PM in reply to: lutzman |
| 80 | Subject: RE: Coming |
| 2015-06-07 3:46 PM in reply to: lutzman |
| 80 | Subject: RE: Coming |
| 2015-06-07 3:59 PM in reply to: lutzman |
| 80 | Subject: RE: Sprint I did a sprint tri today that had the craziest swim. The water was just too shallow, the whole way, about mid thigh. The majority of the swim was standing up walking, with attempts to dolphin dive and Breast or freestyle stroke, but it was just too shallow to stroke. My heart rate was probably higher than if I had swam it all. The ride was fine but the run was short of 3 miles. I'm still waiting on official results, since I left before they posted any. One lady in my wave stepped on a sting ray and said she was stung. Sorry for my absence, as I'm still here, following, but had nothing to post. I start my 70.3 BT plan in 2 weeks. I wondering if I should take a few days off before that(to prevent burnout), or just do my usual training. I'm starting to have heel discomfort and I'm hoping it's not Plantar fasciitis, so I've started ibuprofen and ice. Donna, sorry to hear of your loss. Kristen |
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