kenj - motivated triathletes in training - CLOSED (Page 43)

Meulen - 2012-02-03 10:21 AM

CarlaLThompson - 2012-02-03 9:06 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 8:47 AMI guess I should man up and post some goals for February. 1. Get weight below 170 and break that plateu2. Add at least 2 swims a week for the rest of the month3. Get acclimated to doing 2x20's at FTP on the bike so I quit blowing up during my FTP tests and finally break the plateu I've been at on the bike

I just got a Power Meter and I have been too afraid to do my 2.X 20 FTP Test for fear of blowing up! I have done some power intervals for 2 min up to (3 x 6min) ... almost blew up on the 3rd interval of 6 min!What are your plans to build into 2 x 20?

I had computrainer class on Tuesday. We had our FTP test after 8 weeks of class. We did a 30 minute max out test. I started concervatively and built to a number slightly higher than my previous test. I ended up blowing up 22 minutes in and saved a number 7 watts lower than my previous test. To make things worse this number is below where I was at 2 years ago!! So I started last night with a 2x15' at threshold and blew up again. I didn't expect to hold it because I just tested a couple days ago. I'll do some another regular CT workout on the trainer saturday and CT class on tuesday and try the 2x20 thursday next week. Personally, I think this is 95% mental. My FTP was 256 8 weeks ago. I tested at 249 tuesday. I hit 280 over the summer!!!! I honestly think I've got a mental block. If I use 270-280 as a baseline number in CT class I can still do the work outs. I noticed my HR was only at 150 last night when I failed on the second 15' interval. I just think I need to get past a mental block. If you guys have any suggestions I'm all ears.

I agree that a lot of these tests are mental challenges as much as physical.  For Carla's sake as a new athlete to power, I think testing too soon is a recipe for failure unless being directly (as in person) supervised by a coach.  Until you have a good couple of weeks, or more of 3 or 4 sessions per week to understand your about what your capabilities are the odds are you will either over estimate or under estimate what you can sustain for that time period.  I would suggest some sessions at shorter intervals, maybe 3 X 4' or even 5 X 2' to start out and build up to longer intervals.    If my memory is correct, I beleive it was either week 3 or 4 before we tested using the cycling with power program that is available here.  He also uses a 20 minute and 5 minute protocal for testing. 

I also believe if you want a solid test, you almost need to treat the event like a race.  In other words you need to make sure you are reasonbly rested, didn't have hard workouts in the couple of days pryor and have a good nutrition plan before testing.

Iceman can chime in on this and maybe Brian too, but I beleive if you use power from a PT and also occasionally on a computrainer, the numbers are probably going to be different. 

Meulen - 2012-02-03 9:21 AM

CarlaLThompson - 2012-02-03 9:06 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 8:47 AMI guess I should man up and post some goals for February. 1. Get weight below 170 and break that plateu2. Add at least 2 swims a week for the rest of the month3. Get acclimated to doing 2x20's at FTP on the bike so I quit blowing up during my FTP tests and finally break the plateu I've been at on the bike

I just got a Power Meter and I have been too afraid to do my 2.X 20 FTP Test for fear of blowing up! I have done some power intervals for 2 min up to (3 x 6min) ... almost blew up on the 3rd interval of 6 min!What are your plans to build into 2 x 20?

I had computrainer class on Tuesday. We had our FTP test after 8 weeks of class. We did a 30 minute max out test. I started concervatively and built to a number slightly higher than my previous test. I ended up blowing up 22 minutes in and saved a number 7 watts lower than my previous test. To make things worse this number is below where I was at 2 years ago!! So I started last night with a 2x15' at threshold and blew up again. I didn't expect to hold it because I just tested a couple days ago. I'll do some another regular CT workout on the trainer saturday and CT class on tuesday and try the 2x20 thursday next week. Personally, I think this is 95% mental. My FTP was 256 8 weeks ago. I tested at 249 tuesday. I hit 280 over the summer!!!! I honestly think I've got a mental block. If I use 270-280 as a baseline number in CT class I can still do the work outs. I noticed my HR was only at 150 last night when I failed on the second 15' interval. I just think I need to get past a mental block. If you guys have any suggestions I'm all ears.

Mental could be part of it...Mark Allen suggests focusing on the space between thoughts.  Quiet the mind.  That works for me a lot.  When it doesn't I shift to loud positive simple self talk.  I can, I can. 

But isn't this more about fitness?  I mean it's one thing to have the muscle to reach certain wattages.  But it's another to have the aerobic transfer to hold those watts over time.  Repeated VO2 exercises help me.  Heavy short exertions of 30 secs building to 2 mins and more and repeated overt the course of a workout.  And them tempo rides, longer efforts at 80% to LT.  5 mins on, 5 off three times or so during the workout....then 10 mins...then 15...then 20.   Muscular people who strength train are strong, but don't ask them to run around the block.      

What's the purpose of blowing up during workouts?  

IceManScott - 2012-02-03 11:41 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 9:21 AM

CarlaLThompson - 2012-02-03 9:06 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 8:47 AMI guess I should man up and post some goals for February. 1. Get weight below 170 and break that plateu2. Add at least 2 swims a week for the rest of the month3. Get acclimated to doing 2x20's at FTP on the bike so I quit blowing up during my FTP tests and finally break the plateu I've been at on the bike

I just got a Power Meter and I have been too afraid to do my 2.X 20 FTP Test for fear of blowing up! I have done some power intervals for 2 min up to (3 x 6min) ... almost blew up on the 3rd interval of 6 min!What are your plans to build into 2 x 20?

I had computrainer class on Tuesday. We had our FTP test after 8 weeks of class. We did a 30 minute max out test. I started concervatively and built to a number slightly higher than my previous test. I ended up blowing up 22 minutes in and saved a number 7 watts lower than my previous test. To make things worse this number is below where I was at 2 years ago!! So I started last night with a 2x15' at threshold and blew up again. I didn't expect to hold it because I just tested a couple days ago. I'll do some another regular CT workout on the trainer saturday and CT class on tuesday and try the 2x20 thursday next week. Personally, I think this is 95% mental. My FTP was 256 8 weeks ago. I tested at 249 tuesday. I hit 280 over the summer!!!! I honestly think I've got a mental block. If I use 270-280 as a baseline number in CT class I can still do the work outs. I noticed my HR was only at 150 last night when I failed on the second 15' interval. I just think I need to get past a mental block. If you guys have any suggestions I'm all ears.

Mental could be part of it...Mark Allen suggests focusing on the space between thoughts.  Quiet the mind.  That works for me a lot.  When it doesn't I shift to loud positive simple self talk.  I can, I can. 

But isn't this more about fitness?  I mean it's one thing to have the muscle to reach certain wattages.  But it's another to have the aerobic transfer to hold those watts over time.  Repeated VO2 exercises help me.  Heavy short exertions of 30 secs building to 2 mins and more and repeated overt the course of a workout.  And them tempo rides, longer efforts at 80% to LT.  5 mins on, 5 off three times or so during the workout....then 10 mins...then 15...then 20.   Muscular people who strength train are strong, but don't ask them to run around the block.      

What's the purpose of blowing up during workouts?  

There was a lot of 30 sec on, 30 sec off at max effort during the pre-testing weeks.  As many as 20 times towards the end.  Currentlty, the short stuff is a small part of the warm up, but I havent looked ahead (it scares me ) to see if it will be coming back.  I know when I used the Endurance Nation off season program a couple of years ago the also used the 30 seconds at 110 - 120% of FTP in the later weeks of the program.  It is my understanding that they have changed this to 2:30 on and 2:30 off at 110 - 120% in their current program.  Apparently there findings were that this duration was more effective.

recipe for baked kale chips: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/baked-kale-chips/detail.aspx

again I haven't tried this so can't personally comment.

Weigh in Friday: 151 (down overall 5.2 pounds). I have lost almost a pound in the last couple days, since I have been resting my foot - I am afraid this is probably muscle loss. Feb weight goal: I would like to be consistently under 150 by the end of February.

Sorry to hear....have you tried ART? Sounds like your back aren't stretched out enough/ low flexibility.  Yoga will help.

Not racing, but I will be joining a friend in the pool for some swim filming. Now I can laugh at my strokes and my floating legs.  I'm always curious how I look like when I swim and hopefully find out why I haven't been able to hit under 2:00. 

Putting in some runs with my new shoes, maybe a long run on Saturday.  Ride on Sunday called the Flatlanders (NO it's NOT flat ride...bunch of liars...but it is a bit of a flattish route compared to what I'm used to. :-D ), then of course, Superbowl!!   Hard to root for a team...I've liked the Patriots for a while, but I'm from NJ, so NY Giants as well.  I'm not into football...just for the food. LOL!

Speaking of food, I made Homemade Applesauce with the Foley Mill I got for Christmas (It was on my Amazon wishlist for 4 years, and I had forgotten about it...Mom bought everything that was on the Amazon wishlist!! LOL...so I have to use it!).   DELICIOUS!!!!    Trick is, using SEVERAL different types of Apples.  I tried Gala, Pink Lady, Red Delicious, and Fuji apples. Sprinkled with a little Cinnamon and nutmeg. My Grandmother (RIP) make applesauce ALL the time, when I did it yesterday I was flooded with fond memories of Grandma. The only difference is she puts in red hots to give it a punch.

Yo Carla!

    I did the trainer workout (slightly modified) for 55 minutes (only difference was I did 10 min warm up instead of 15). I was HURTING by the time I got the last :30 intervals!! I LOOOOOVED it! :-)  I need to get a fan...my shirt was soaked. 

I thought it was an easy workout...but NO...I was wrong. LOL! 

I'm going to do a couple CT sessions at a CompuTrainer store in town (interesting concept...you bring your own bike, and you ride with other folks using the CT for certain sessions, or do it to do a TT on your own).  I'm always curious how much watts I do.

Thanks again!

I haven't had a problem improving, but when you start pretty low up is about the only direction.  What training with power has taught me is the ability to work on the bike.  Before I would just pedal and pedal but never really push myself like I would running. 

My biggest problem with the longer intervals once I get up in or above 90% is my ability to stay focused.  My mind will wander and think about issues or what ever it is that crosses my mind and the power will drop down.  I will have to try some of what Ice suggested to help stay focus.  I will say though, when testing I am better at it just knowing the implications.

canola oil on it.  bake 330 for 10-12 mins

Sprinkle with salt when done...

I think that's it?

Hi all,

Sorry, I have been absent from the group for a while.  I was out of town on vacation during the middle of January then returned and had an inguinal hernia surgically repaired this past Monday.  All is going well, except "OUCH!" is I word I find myself using frequently. I am off work for another week.  I am allowed to slowly ease back into my training.  I can walk this week, tentatively swim a smidge next week, maybe gently cycle the following week, and possibly gently run the week after that.  Doc advised me I cannot train hard until Marh 1 and the my strength training is severely restricted on weight for a while longer.  Doing nothing other than some walks, and these are Tim Conway type walks, is driving me crazy!

I see folks are posting January training #s and February goals.

My February goals are to follow the doctor's orders, follow the mild, easy, downright wimpy easing back into training direction provided by my doc (he is a runner and cyclist), and not let my weight get above 235.

January's totals:
Bike: 11h 08m 05s  - 158.99 Mi
Run: 2h 00m 34s  - 7.16 Mi
Swim: 3h 17m 30s  - 6500 Yd
Strength: 5h 50m
Hiking: 2h 00m - 4 mi

It is great to be caught up on this thread and seeing the motivation and information being exchanged here! You are all doing incredible in your training!

OMG that is soooooooooooo awesome!!!  You GO GURRL!!! 

Yes, this workout is misleading... it's a sneaky workout where you start out thinking, "Oh... piece of cake"... until you are WHIMPERING on the last interval... PRAYING for the final 30 seconds to be up!!!!

There were actually two sets of the 30 second intervals but I could only complete one because I was literally crying out loud! 

Nice work CyborgQueen!  Way to go!!!!!!!!

gator - I "lock up" usually when I am not use to doing a particular exercise.  I would say commit to running 2 x per week for 2 - 3 weeks and see if you are still getting that response.  Also, I take a VERY VERY VERY long time to warm up.  

Q.  Are you giving yourself a reasonable warm up before your workout?

Glad to have you back Mikeylee... so sorry you had the hernia!  Wishing you speedy recovery and a gentle re-entry to your training!  --  Nice visual of "Tim Conway" walking!!!!

Meulen - 2012-02-03 11:54 AM

kenj - 2012-02-03 10:57 AM

IceManScott - 2012-02-03 11:41 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 9:21 AM

CarlaLThompson - 2012-02-03 9:06 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 8:47 AMI guess I should man up and post some goals for February. 1. Get weight below 170 and break that plateu2. Add at least 2 swims a week for the rest of the month3. Get acclimated to doing 2x20's at FTP on the bike so I quit blowing up during my FTP tests and finally break the plateu I've been at on the bike

I just got a Power Meter and I have been too afraid to do my 2.X 20 FTP Test for fear of blowing up! I have done some power intervals for 2 min up to (3 x 6min) ... almost blew up on the 3rd interval of 6 min!What are your plans to build into 2 x 20?

I had computrainer class on Tuesday. We had our FTP test after 8 weeks of class. We did a 30 minute max out test. I started concervatively and built to a number slightly higher than my previous test. I ended up blowing up 22 minutes in and saved a number 7 watts lower than my previous test. To make things worse this number is below where I was at 2 years ago!! So I started last night with a 2x15' at threshold and blew up again. I didn't expect to hold it because I just tested a couple days ago. I'll do some another regular CT workout on the trainer saturday and CT class on tuesday and try the 2x20 thursday next week. Personally, I think this is 95% mental. My FTP was 256 8 weeks ago. I tested at 249 tuesday. I hit 280 over the summer!!!! I honestly think I've got a mental block. If I use 270-280 as a baseline number in CT class I can still do the work outs. I noticed my HR was only at 150 last night when I failed on the second 15' interval. I just think I need to get past a mental block. If you guys have any suggestions I'm all ears.

Mental could be part of it...Mark Allen suggests focusing on the space between thoughts.  Quiet the mind.  That works for me a lot.  When it doesn't I shift to loud positive simple self talk.  I can, I can. 

But isn't this more about fitness?  I mean it's one thing to have the muscle to reach certain wattages.  But it's another to have the aerobic transfer to hold those watts over time.  Repeated VO2 exercises help me.  Heavy short exertions of 30 secs building to 2 mins and more and repeated overt the course of a workout.  And them tempo rides, longer efforts at 80% to LT.  5 mins on, 5 off three times or so during the workout....then 10 mins...then 15...then 20.   Muscular people who strength train are strong, but don't ask them to run around the block.      

What's the purpose of blowing up during workouts?  

There was a lot of 30 sec on, 30 sec off at max effort during the pre-testing weeks.  As many as 20 times towards the end.  Currentlty, the short stuff is a small part of the warm up, but I havent looked ahead (it scares me ) to see if it will be coming back.  I know when I used the Endurance Nation off season program a couple of years ago the also used the 30 seconds at 110 - 120% of FTP in the later weeks of the program.  It is my understanding that they have changed this to 2:30 on and 2:30 off at 110 - 120% in their current program.  Apparently there findings were that this duration was more effective.

this was our workout the class before testing WU 10x3' (2'@AT/1'RI) 10x1' (20"@130%/40"RI) CD

Meulen, KenJ & IceMan - Many thanks for your insights related to "Power Newbies". 

KenJ - One coach thought it would be a good idea for me to just test and get a baseline power reading and work from there.  -- This week has been the first week that I have had a Power focus on the Bike and Run (Leg Speed Intervals). 

I've been doing my sessions as hard as I can and looking at the data after the fact to see what my "general power readings are".  I record which gearing I use for a particular interval... it's different for a 2 min interval than a 6 min interval... and I can't even imagine a 20 min interval (let alone 2 x 20 min).

This week my legs are so "broke down"... it started with a hilly 8 mile run last Sunday followed by daily cycling and running power intervals.  I haven't hurt this bad in well over a  year.  I know the body will adapt and I probably won't hurt quite this bad... but man, right now I am what I call "Smashed Crab!" 

Meulen - I have heard about the gains of using power to train over the course of a year.  I am less than 20 weeks out from my race and trusting that I will make some headway before having to face Ironman Coeur d'Alene.  Hang in there with your consistent training.  3 CT Classes a week, one would want to see some gains. Are you going for Endurance or Speed?  Triathlon or straight cycling?  Those answers could be the start of how to approach this plateau.

Sorry to hear about your set backs and surgery, I hope you get feeling better quickly.  I think following the doc's recovery orders is a very good goal for February Mike!  Take it easy!

If it is just a starting out running again after a lay off issue, I would suggest a lot of walking with some running thrown in and slowly build the running part.  But I would also suggest discussing with a doctor or a chiro to make sure it isn't something more. 

I hope it is something simple!

ETA:  Stretching good everyday is a very good idea too.  Gentle thought!

CarlaLThompson - 2012-02-04 12:24 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 11:54 AM

kenj - 2012-02-03 10:57 AM

IceManScott - 2012-02-03 11:41 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 9:21 AM

CarlaLThompson - 2012-02-03 9:06 AM

Meulen - 2012-02-03 8:47 AMI guess I should man up and post some goals for February. 1. Get weight below 170 and break that plateu2. Add at least 2 swims a week for the rest of the month3. Get acclimated to doing 2x20's at FTP on the bike so I quit blowing up during my FTP tests and finally break the plateu I've been at on the bike

I just got a Power Meter and I have been too afraid to do my 2.X 20 FTP Test for fear of blowing up! I have done some power intervals for 2 min up to (3 x 6min) ... almost blew up on the 3rd interval of 6 min!What are your plans to build into 2 x 20?

I had computrainer class on Tuesday. We had our FTP test after 8 weeks of class. We did a 30 minute max out test. I started concervatively and built to a number slightly higher than my previous test. I ended up blowing up 22 minutes in and saved a number 7 watts lower than my previous test. To make things worse this number is below where I was at 2 years ago!! So I started last night with a 2x15' at threshold and blew up again. I didn't expect to hold it because I just tested a couple days ago. I'll do some another regular CT workout on the trainer saturday and CT class on tuesday and try the 2x20 thursday next week. Personally, I think this is 95% mental. My FTP was 256 8 weeks ago. I tested at 249 tuesday. I hit 280 over the summer!!!! I honestly think I've got a mental block. If I use 270-280 as a baseline number in CT class I can still do the work outs. I noticed my HR was only at 150 last night when I failed on the second 15' interval. I just think I need to get past a mental block. If you guys have any suggestions I'm all ears.

Mental could be part of it...Mark Allen suggests focusing on the space between thoughts.  Quiet the mind.  That works for me a lot.  When it doesn't I shift to loud positive simple self talk.  I can, I can. 

But isn't this more about fitness?  I mean it's one thing to have the muscle to reach certain wattages.  But it's another to have the aerobic transfer to hold those watts over time.  Repeated VO2 exercises help me.  Heavy short exertions of 30 secs building to 2 mins and more and repeated overt the course of a workout.  And them tempo rides, longer efforts at 80% to LT.  5 mins on, 5 off three times or so during the workout....then 10 mins...then 15...then 20.   Muscular people who strength train are strong, but don't ask them to run around the block.      

What's the purpose of blowing up during workouts?  

There was a lot of 30 sec on, 30 sec off at max effort during the pre-testing weeks.  As many as 20 times towards the end.  Currentlty, the short stuff is a small part of the warm up, but I havent looked ahead (it scares me ) to see if it will be coming back.  I know when I used the Endurance Nation off season program a couple of years ago the also used the 30 seconds at 110 - 120% of FTP in the later weeks of the program.  It is my understanding that they have changed this to 2:30 on and 2:30 off at 110 - 120% in their current program.  Apparently there findings were that this duration was more effective.

this was our workout the class before testing WU 10x3' (2'@AT/1'RI) 10x1' (20"@130%/40"RI) CD

Meulen, KenJ & IceMan - Many thanks for your insights related to "Power Newbies". 

KenJ - One coach thought it would be a good idea for me to just test and get a baseline power reading and work from there.  -- This week has been the first week that I have had a Power focus on the Bike and Run (Leg Speed Intervals). 

I've been doing my sessions as hard as I can and looking at the data after the fact to see what my "general power readings are".  I record which gearing I use for a particular interval... it's different for a 2 min interval than a 6 min interval... and I can't even imagine a 20 min interval (let alone 2 x 20 min).

This week my legs are so "broke down"... it started with a hilly 8 mile run last Sunday followed by daily cycling and running power intervals.  I haven't hurt this bad in well over a  year.  I know the body will adapt and I probably won't hurt quite this bad... but man, right now I am what I call "Smashed Crab!" 

Meulen - I have heard about the gains of using power to train over the course of a year.  I am less than 20 weeks out from my race and trusting that I will make some headway before having to face Ironman Coeur d'Alene.  Hang in there with your consistent training.  3 CT Classes a week, one would want to see some gains. Are you going for Endurance or Speed?  Triathlon or straight cycling?  Those answers could be the start of how to approach this plateau.

 

Good work Carla!

I only suggest waiting on the test to avoid frustration.  If you can do it and get a baseline it would have value.  But getting frustrated may turn you off to it and I would hate to see that.  Sounds like you have a handle on what you want to do, so keep doing what you are. 

Let the legs recover a little too.  I like to use a swim for that!

Thanks Kenj... I have some frustrations for sure... but it's just with respect to the reality of my current power output.  I don't have to do a test to know that it's "low" and "not enough to ride most of the North American Ironman Courses in under 08:15:00 at my body weight 93.2kg.

I rode today for 02:15:00... Real Course Video for Ironman St. George... my power was suboptimal because I get so bogged down with 2 - 5% Gradient Changes.  That coupled with tired legs is not a winning combination.

Garmin Link:  http://connect.garmin.com/activity/147083137

I'm trying to keep things in perspective... trying to keep my "chin up" since it is technically "early season"... I know there are gains to be had... just wonder if I can really do this.  I am feeling inadequate in the moment.  It's hard to escape the feeling, so I'm verbalizing it so that I can hopefully move on after writing about it.

Q.  Does anyone know of a formula to take the elevation data from Ironman Coeur d'Alene, a person's current mass (ie. 93.2kg) and a time (ie. 08:15:00) and calculate the average Watts the rider must produce to accomplish this course in the given time?

OMG...that'll be a great challenge for next time.  When I was doing the last two 30 sec intervals, I was swearing so bad, it helps!    I'll totally do this next week if you're game. *winks*

Nice to have you back again, Mike. Sorry to hear about your hernia surgery. At least you are having it done early in the year, and will be able to get back in action soon for this season. I had the same surgery about 18-19 years ago and had a pretty quick recovery. That's a great sign that you are already up and walking around. Best of luck!