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2010-09-19 5:02 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
tmoran80 - 2010-09-19 2:26 PM

Finished in 6:35:52 (520 out of 1350)  Race went great a little slower than I wanted I was shooting for 6:15 but with the weather I am extremely happy.  I just looked and the Real Feel when I was finishing the run was 100 degrees!  My nutritin plan worked out great and got me through the race.  BIG THANKS to all you guys for your support ove rthe past few months.  It means more than you will ever know.  It gives you that extra little push knowing you guys are going to be checking up on me during and after -haha.

Once the nerves went away and I settled in I just told myself to trust in my training and I had a really good time.

Over all I feel great! Did not cramp once during the whole race.  I did have a goggle issue early in the swim.  I'll go into more detail in my race report. 

Once again thanks to all you guys!!!



Really glad you had a great race, I didn't envy you racing in that heat so kudo's to you for doing so great on your first half, I stand in awe. 


2010-09-19 5:11 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
tmoran80 - 2010-09-19 4:26 PM

Finished in 6:35:52 (520 out of 1350)  Race went great a little slower than I wanted I was shooting for 6:15 but with the weather I am extremely happy.  I just looked and the Real Feel when I was finishing the run was 100 degrees!  My nutritin plan worked out great and got me through the race.  BIG THANKS to all you guys for your support ove rthe past few months.  It means more than you will ever know.  It gives you that extra little push knowing you guys are going to be checking up on me during and after -haha.

Once the nerves went away and I settled in I just told myself to trust in my training and I had a really good time.

Over all I feel great! Did not cramp once during the whole race.  I did have a goggle issue early in the swim.  I'll go into more detail in my race report. 

Once again thanks to all you guys!!!



HOORAY! CONGRATS! 

I was tracking you during the race and cheering for you from Wisconsin! That is NOT an easy course, so kudos to you for doing so well on such a hot day!  I'm proud and jealous of you all at the same time!

Now go get some rest!
2010-09-19 9:27 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
Way to go Tim!!  Truly amazing.  I was keeping an eye on the tracker.  Wife and I went for a run this morning and when we got back is when I checked.  We then went and ran some errands then came home and checked again and the race is still going on.  Just blew me away that here I was doing all this stuff and the entire time you're out there humping your butt off for that many hours. 

So what is on the training schedule for tomorrow?!    take a break, you deserve it!
2010-09-20 8:19 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
tmoran80 - 2010-09-19 5:26 PM

Finished in 6:35:52 (520 out of 1350)  Race went great a little slower than I wanted I was shooting for 6:15 but with the weather I am extremely happy.  I just looked and the Real Feel when I was finishing the run was 100 degrees!  My nutritin plan worked out great and got me through the race.  BIG THANKS to all you guys for your support ove rthe past few months.  It means more than you will ever know.  It gives you that extra little push knowing you guys are going to be checking up on me during and after -haha.

Once the nerves went away and I settled in I just told myself to trust in my training and I had a really good time.

Over all I feel great! Did not cramp once during the whole race.  I did have a goggle issue early in the swim.  I'll go into more detail in my race report. 

Once again thanks to all you guys!!!



Tim, WTF were you doing on BT last night and not either sleeping, eating, or celebrating?  :P  

Amazing job, and I can't wait to read the race report.  Reading over a few, I really, really want to do an IM (or HIM) soon...  They look like so much fun, and the stories are all so motivational!  Glad it went so well, and the nutrition held up, despite the weather!  I can't imagine how happy you were that you didn't cramp up!

So today starts the new season with my tri club...  Missed out on this morning's spin class, since I am not a member of the gym yet, but I'll sign up tonight and go to the swim practice.  It's open house week, so it'll probably be pretty busy.  I'm interested to see how the season gets laid out for us by Cliff English.  Hopefully with his guidance, this winter will really help out!  I am NOT looking forward to the runs, though.  Apparently we run outside throughout the winter, so that will be less than fun.  I really have to get some cold weather run wear.   
2010-09-20 10:27 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
T2-Congratulations!!!!!  That is awesome....you are so inspiring and you did it in some brutal heat!  WAY TO GO!!

Had a great weekend in Chicago.  DMB was fantastic as always and Saturday nights show has to go down in the books as one of my absolute favorites.  I have never seen them end a tour before and they rocked Wrigley!!! 

Did not get to excercise as I had planned but I am back on the bandwagon this morning.  I am finally feeling better, voice is still a little hoarse, but returning back to normal.  Have to go back to the dr. this week to check in, but hopefully everything is good! 
2010-09-20 10:48 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
debbiereid06 - 2010-09-20 10:27 AM T2-Congratulations!!!!!  That is awesome....you are so inspiring and you did it in some brutal heat!  WAY TO GO!!

Had a great weekend in Chicago.  DMB was fantastic as always and Saturday nights show has to go down in the books as one of my absolute favorites.  I have never seen them end a tour before and they rocked Wrigley!!! 

Did not get to excercise as I had planned but I am back on the bandwagon this morning.  I am finally feeling better, voice is still a little hoarse, but returning back to normal.  Have to go back to the dr. this week to check in, but hopefully everything is good! 


Glad you had a great weekend!!


2010-09-21 7:42 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
So if anyone interested I have finally completed my race report from the weekend. 
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=227732

I also uploaded a bunch of pics to Picasa if you want ot check them out
http://picasaweb.google.com/107251508845075535003/Ironman?authkey=Gv1sRgCIiK1aO_x_yq9wE#

Also check out this album of the hills on the bike ride.  We drove them the next day do my wife could actually see what I accomplished.  The pictures somewhat represent how they were but you really have to see them.  The scenery during the bike was amazing and made it very enjoyable.
http://picasaweb.google.com/107251508845075535003/Hills?authkey=Gv1sRgCLW45-ydsIOQ8gE#
2010-09-21 10:51 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
Great pictures!  Looked like you had a great day and you have a very good looking family.  Congrats on your accomplishment once again!
2010-09-22 9:18 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
tmoran80 - 2010-09-21 7:42 PM So if anyone interested I have finally completed my race report from the weekend. 
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=227732

I also uploaded a bunch of pics to Picasa if you want ot check them out
http://picasaweb.google.com/107251508845075535003/Ironman?authkey=Gv1sRgCIiK1aO_x_yq9wE#

Also check out this album of the hills on the bike ride.  We drove them the next day do my wife could actually see what I accomplished.  The pictures somewhat represent how they were but you really have to see them.  The scenery during the bike was amazing and made it very enjoyable.
http://picasaweb.google.com/107251508845075535003/Hills?authkey=Gv1sRgCLW45-ydsIOQ8gE#


Those pictures are AWESOME!  And scary...  After reading some of the reports on HIM Branson, I look up to you even more for doing it!  It looks rough.  And that's an understatement.

Congrats again!  You've motivated me a TON to do my own soon!
2010-09-22 9:23 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
Mrschach - 2010-09-18 7:53 PM
SoccerGK - 2010-09-18 2:47 PM I ran today!!! Yay!  And I will tomorrow, too.  Feels good!

Ryan and I were talking today, and I'm thinking I'm going to start out with 4 days/week of working out for now, until I can get into the swing of things.  I want to run on Saturday/Sunday, then bike on Monday/Wednesday mornings (since I don't have to leave until 8 on those mornings).  I will up that in the next couple weeks if I feel like I can.  If I get a treadmill, I can improve on that as well.  I'm going to try to make my runs longer.  Today was 4.7 miles, and since those are on the weekends, I can pretty much make them as long as I want.  It would be nice to get up to 10, at least, by the end of the school year.  Bikes will pretty much be maintained at around an hour-1.5 for now, in the hopes that when I start hitting it hard again, it will come back somewhat easily.

Swimming, I suppose, will wait for now.

How does that sound?


Sounds like a good plan!  Are you still thinking of a half next year?


If we do, we're looking seriously at Benton Harbor, since it's a bit later in the season, or Door County since it's supposed to be a lot more laid back.  I really want to do one though!  We're waiting to set anything in stone until I get my schedule back for next semester (should be a bit less hectic) and see what I'm doing for a job next summer.  The plan right now is just to train as much as I can and figure things out in a couple months when we're less busy!Laughing
2010-09-22 10:19 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
Great pictures Tim.  Those are some cute kids (must get it from mom Innocent).  Those are some long slow hills, my worst enemy. 


2010-09-22 10:24 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
Haha, zing!

Great pics, Tim.  I won't lie, you look nervous in a lot of the pics.  And until I read that you had gone into the fountain after your race, I was worried about how much you were sweating after the race.  I expect a lot of sweat, but it looked like you had been swimming!   
2010-09-23 11:39 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
Pete - There really was no difference from before and after the fountain in how drenched I looked.  I was downing water/gatorade at every aid station which averaged about every .8 miles and I was sweating like crazy.  The thing that saved me was over hydrating on the bike portion.  I could not keep enough ice and water on me with the temperatures.

Tim- Yes I also agree that my kids get their looks from their mother -haha  We have some old neighbors that everyday tell us to have more kids because they claim we have good genes -haha

LockOut - 2010-09-22 10:24 AM Haha, zing!

Great pics, Tim.  I won't lie, you look nervous in a lot of the pics.  And until I read that you had gone into the fountain after your race, I was worried about how much you were sweating after the race.  I expect a lot of sweat, but it looked like you had been swimming!   
2010-09-23 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
Erica - Have you checked out the Racine 70.3? - I think it is actually the same weekend as Door County.  I am looking at that for next year as a bunch of people I train with did it.  I like it because it is much closer for me from Chicago.

SoccerGK - 2010-09-22 9:23 AM
Mrschach - 2010-09-18 7:53 PM
SoccerGK - 2010-09-18 2:47 PM I ran today!!! Yay!  And I will tomorrow, too.  Feels good!

Ryan and I were talking today, and I'm thinking I'm going to start out with 4 days/week of working out for now, until I can get into the swing of things.  I want to run on Saturday/Sunday, then bike on Monday/Wednesday mornings (since I don't have to leave until 8 on those mornings).  I will up that in the next couple weeks if I feel like I can.  If I get a treadmill, I can improve on that as well.  I'm going to try to make my runs longer.  Today was 4.7 miles, and since those are on the weekends, I can pretty much make them as long as I want.  It would be nice to get up to 10, at least, by the end of the school year.  Bikes will pretty much be maintained at around an hour-1.5 for now, in the hopes that when I start hitting it hard again, it will come back somewhat easily.

Swimming, I suppose, will wait for now.

How does that sound?


Sounds like a good plan!  Are you still thinking of a half next year?


If we do, we're looking seriously at Benton Harbor, since it's a bit later in the season, or Door County since it's supposed to be a lot more laid back.  I really want to do one though!  We're waiting to set anything in stone until I get my schedule back for next semester (should be a bit less hectic) and see what I'm doing for a job next summer.  The plan right now is just to train as much as I can and figure things out in a couple months when we're less busy!Laughing
2010-09-23 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
So, unless I missed someone I think the tri season is done for us all.  There are a few tri's still down here that are in Oct but not many and none that I will be doing.  This is the time for people to generally transition into the bike/run season. 

I really want to commend you all for doing a great job with the training this year and helping to motivate each other.  I got dragged into doing this mentor group (you know who you are! ) but have loved it and really enjoyed seeing you all progress and improve. 

So, athletics-wise...what would you say is your biggest accomplishment this year? 

I would say that it was my last tri where I smashed my times and was the best race I've ever had...but, I am not going to say that.  I feel that just learning to be much more consistent with my training has made the biggest impact.  If you look at my past years I would work out for a few weeks then totally slack off for weeks at a time.  This year I made every effort to just stay as consistent as possible and learn to enjoy the workouts and realize that my goal is to get/stay healthy, not win an event.  It sounds funny but I look forward to the workouts, and don't enjoy the races nearly as much. 
2010-09-23 12:06 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
chichitao - 2010-09-23 1:00 PM So, unless I missed someone I think the tri season is done for us all.  There are a few tri's still down here that are in Oct but not many and none that I will be doing.  This is the time for people to generally transition into the bike/run season. 

I really want to commend you all for doing a great job with the training this year and helping to motivate each other.  I got dragged into doing this mentor group (you know who you are! ) but have loved it and really enjoyed seeing you all progress and improve. 

So, athletics-wise...what would you say is your biggest accomplishment this year? 

I would say that it was my last tri where I smashed my times and was the best race I've ever had...but, I am not going to say that.  I feel that just learning to be much more consistent with my training has made the biggest impact.  If you look at my past years I would work out for a few weeks then totally slack off for weeks at a time.  This year I made every effort to just stay as consistent as possible and learn to enjoy the workouts and realize that my goal is to get/stay healthy, not win an event.  It sounds funny but I look forward to the workouts, and don't enjoy the races nearly as much. 


Tim, you did an awesome job as a mentor for all of us (well, for me, at least, I can't speak for everyone else   ).  Thanks for putting in the time and effort for us.  I know I greatly appreciate it!

Greatest accomplishment, well, was to finish.  Forget time and placing, as is the goal for everyone's first race, finishing just felt amazing.  You guys made a huge difference, and really helped push me through a lot of tough training sessions, but also during my race.  I'm a proud man, and I wanted to impress you guys, so that helped me push just that extra little bit that I needed.  And crossing that finish line for the first time (and the second time...), it was the greatest feeling of my life.  Felt like such a huge accomplishment, I couldn't stop beaming.  Definitely helped reel me into this cult culture just a little bit more. 


2010-09-23 12:45 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
chichitao - 2010-09-23 10:00 AM So, unless I missed someone I think the tri season is done for us all.  There are a few tri's still down here that are in Oct but not many and none that I will be doing.  This is the time for people to generally transition into the bike/run season. 

I really want to commend you all for doing a great job with the training this year and helping to motivate each other.  I got dragged into doing this mentor group (you know who you are! ) but have loved it and really enjoyed seeing you all progress and improve. 

So, athletics-wise...what would you say is your biggest accomplishment this year? 

I would say that it was my last tri where I smashed my times and was the best race I've ever had...but, I am not going to say that.  I feel that just learning to be much more consistent with my training has made the biggest impact.  If you look at my past years I would work out for a few weeks then totally slack off for weeks at a time.  This year I made every effort to just stay as consistent as possible and learn to enjoy the workouts and realize that my goal is to get/stay healthy, not win an event.  It sounds funny but I look forward to the workouts, and don't enjoy the races nearly as much. 


It's been a great year and this group has really kept me going.  I've learned not to schedule back to back races, early in the season and porta-potties are my friend and I know that next year is going to look a lot different for me.  I have a half marathon coming up in a couple of weeks and that will be my season ender,  even though I will be doing a leg on an ultra relay in November, that is purely for fun with some of my running friends (we have 2 teams "Running for the Martini's 1 & 2). 

My winter training plan is going to include Jorge's bike program and keeping up my running until January when I start focusing my training towards the full marathon in the spring. Next year, I will complete at most a couple of sprint tri's aside from the marathon in the spring, I have 2 in mind that are local, so the cost will only be the entry.  2011's focus and resources  in my household will be on my husband and his training for IM Canada, he's all signed up and we have our hotel booked. 

Tim, you have been a great sport on keeping this group going and providing really good feedback, and training suggestions.  I'd love it if we continued on through the winter:-)
2010-09-23 12:47 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
2X on Pete's comments.  Tim - you did a great job as a mentor and really helped everyone get through this season.  I also think that everyone helped each person in some way this season - be it training, work or life.  It was a very interesting group to see how each person had different goals throughout the year.  Like Pete said - I definitely pushed myself a little harder know that i had someone looking over my logs and keeping tabs on me.  On top of that - last weekend was a great feeling know that each time I crossed that timing mat on the course someone was tracking me and rooting me on to get through the race.  Its funny as I look back but I didn't really know who it was but I just knew that someone was checking and in reality some of you guys were -lol  That is huge. 

I was trying to explain to my wife this weekend how much I really enjoy the triathlon community as a whole and you guys are all a huge part of that.

Are you guys going to continue into the winter session?   I know I will.

chichitao - 2010-09-23 12:00 PM So, unless I missed someone I think the tri season is done for us all.  There are a few tri's still down here that are in Oct but not many and none that I will be doing.  This is the time for people to generally transition into the bike/run season. 

I really want to commend you all for doing a great job with the training this year and helping to motivate each other.  I got dragged into doing this mentor group (you know who you are! ) but have loved it and really enjoyed seeing you all progress and improve. 

So, athletics-wise...what would you say is your biggest accomplishment this year? 

I would say that it was my last tri where I smashed my times and was the best race I've ever had...but, I am not going to say that.  I feel that just learning to be much more consistent with my training has made the biggest impact.  If you look at my past years I would work out for a few weeks then totally slack off for weeks at a time.  This year I made every effort to just stay as consistent as possible and learn to enjoy the workouts and realize that my goal is to get/stay healthy, not win an event.  It sounds funny but I look forward to the workouts, and don't enjoy the races nearly as much. 
2010-09-23 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
So some of you guys were asking about the whole clipping in thing on the bike from last weekend.  I think that the rule is becoming more and more common in Ironman events.  Has to do with safety and possible bike accidents out of transition.  I would assume if it is becoming a common thing from Ironman it will eventaully be picked up by USAT and applied to all triathlons?
2010-09-23 1:00 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
chichitao - 2010-09-23 12:00 PM

So, athletics-wise...what would you say is your biggest accomplishment this year?  

 


Thanks Tim for succumbing to peer pressure from me and Sandra!!

What did I learn this year?  I can't stop exercising!  It really does keep me a happy and sane mama!  I really can continue to get up at 4:30 and workout.  I can somehow manage to juggle family, work, house stuff, and training.  I can't do many races right now while the boys are little.  I really can run a 5k and not worry about not being fast. 

For my biggest accomplishment?  You can ask me that in 2 months.  Not gonna throw the horns on it!!
2010-09-23 1:10 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
chichitao - 2010-09-23 12:00 PM So, unless I missed someone I think the tri season is done for us all.  There are a few tri's still down here that are in Oct but not many and none that I will be doing.  This is the time for people to generally transition into the bike/run season. 

I really want to commend you all for doing a great job with the training this year and helping to motivate each other.  I got dragged into doing this mentor group (you know who you are! ) but have loved it and really enjoyed seeing you all progress and improve. 

So, athletics-wise...what would you say is your biggest accomplishment this year? 

I would say that it was my last tri where I smashed my times and was the best race I've ever had...but, I am not going to say that.  I feel that just learning to be much more consistent with my training has made the biggest impact.  If you look at my past years I would work out for a few weeks then totally slack off for weeks at a time.  This year I made every effort to just stay as consistent as possible and learn to enjoy the workouts and realize that my goal is to get/stay healthy, not win an event.  It sounds funny but I look forward to the workouts, and don't enjoy the races nearly as much. 


Yay T1!  You are awesome!  You've helped me a ton this season, so I'm glad they dragged you into it!

Biggest athletic accomplishment this year was busting through the "3 mile" barrier.  For so long, it was so hard for me to run any more than that.  Now, my short runs are 3 miles!  That's a great feeling, knowing I can go from a sprint athlete to a long distance athlete because I always thought I couldn't do it!  I'm just hoping by next year, my short runs are like 6-7 miles!


2010-09-23 1:14 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
tmoran80 - 2010-09-23 11:42 AM Erica - Have you checked out the Racine 70.3? - I think it is actually the same weekend as Door County.  I am looking at that for next year as a bunch of people I train with did it.  I like it because it is much closer for me from Chicago.

SoccerGK - 2010-09-22 9:23 AM
Mrschach - 2010-09-18 7:53 PM
SoccerGK - 2010-09-18 2:47 PM I ran today!!! Yay!  And I will tomorrow, too.  Feels good!

Ryan and I were talking today, and I'm thinking I'm going to start out with 4 days/week of working out for now, until I can get into the swing of things.  I want to run on Saturday/Sunday, then bike on Monday/Wednesday mornings (since I don't have to leave until 8 on those mornings).  I will up that in the next couple weeks if I feel like I can.  If I get a treadmill, I can improve on that as well.  I'm going to try to make my runs longer.  Today was 4.7 miles, and since those are on the weekends, I can pretty much make them as long as I want.  It would be nice to get up to 10, at least, by the end of the school year.  Bikes will pretty much be maintained at around an hour-1.5 for now, in the hopes that when I start hitting it hard again, it will come back somewhat easily.

Swimming, I suppose, will wait for now.

How does that sound?


Sounds like a good plan!  Are you still thinking of a half next year?


If we do, we're looking seriously at Benton Harbor, since it's a bit later in the season, or Door County since it's supposed to be a lot more laid back.  I really want to do one though!  We're waiting to set anything in stone until I get my schedule back for next semester (should be a bit less hectic) and see what I'm doing for a job next summer.  The plan right now is just to train as much as I can and figure things out in a couple months when we're less busy!Laughing


I actually really want to do Racine, it was my number one choice for HIM.  I'm just hesitant since it's earlier in the season than Benton Harbor, and I want to be able to really train hard up to it.  We can't commit to anything until I know what I have in the way of a summer job and classes next semester though, but I'm hoping really that Racine fits in.   It would be cool to do the same race though!  Though, you'd be far far ahead of me on the course, so I probably wouldn't see you at all!
2010-09-23 4:54 PM
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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
So I had to really think about what my biggest athletic accomplishment this past year was.  I think it would be easy to say the Ironman 70.3 but I don't think I would have been able to do that if I couldn't swim.  Coming from ZERO swimming background -In January I was barely able to swim 1000 yards in a workout and was only able to swim 1:55/100Y  repeats and no more than 4 of them. 

I actually remember my first swim session two weeks after the Chicago Marathon where I thought "hey - I just ran a marathon of course I can swim a couple hundred yards".  I then proceeded to swim 300 yards and almost fell over when I got out of the pool-lol

I am now able to swim qty. 12 -100Y repeats at 1:31 average and still feel ok.

As I look back at my logs for 2010 I realized that I spent almost as much time in the pool as I have on the bike - over 70 hours and 163,475 yards swam.  And as I think about last weekend and the fact that I swam 1.2 miles then continued on for 6 more hours - it makes me very proud of myself.  So I am going to say that learning how to swim and really working on improving my stroke has been my biggest accomplishment. 

Great question Tim!
2010-09-25 4:48 PM
in reply to: #2776397

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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
Fun weekend so far!  Ryan and I went to a Brewers game last night with some friends, and it was our first "date" night in forever.  Then I got to run with Nadie again this morning, and it felt really good.  Then we caught up on our Biggest Loser and Parenthood shows, and now I'm getting some school work done.  Fun! 

I have a question for everybody, too.  Do you have a race (or a couple of races) that you just REALLY want to do? 

Mine is Escape from Alcatraz.  I WILL do that race within the next 10 years.  It just looks AWESOME.  Anybody else?
2010-09-25 6:56 PM
in reply to: #3117576

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Subject: RE: chichitao's group - FULL!
SoccerGK - 2010-09-25 2:48 PM Fun weekend so far!  Ryan and I went to a Brewers game last night with some friends, and it was our first "date" night in forever.  Then I got to run with Nadie again this morning, and it felt really good.  Then we caught up on our Biggest Loser and Parenthood shows, and now I'm getting some school work done.  Fun! 

I have a question for everybody, too.  Do you have a race (or a couple of races) that you just REALLY want to do? 

Mine is Escape from Alcatraz.  I WILL do that race within the next 10 years.  It just looks AWESOME.  Anybody else?


I'd love to do a big foreign destination run, sometime, Europe, South America, Australia, anywhere really not in North America.  In North America I would consider the Goofy run a real accomplishment, one for the bucket list.  The Escape from Alcatraz sounds fun and scary too, what all does it involve?  Is it just a swim or is there more to it?
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