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Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED (Page 45)
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 2012-01-12 9:34 AM in reply to: #3984838 |
Master  2238    Dallas |  Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSEDsteelfin - 2012-01-11 5:04 PM Hey Ernesto/Group-I need your opinion: I seem to have tweaked my back. It started about about 2 weeks ago, but felt like it was getting better this past weekend. Well last night at my son's b-ball practice I felt like I could do sprints with them. A big mistake, it is now twice as bad. Before today it only bothered me after swimming, I could run or bike no problem. I skipped swimming last night but need to ride tonight, but don't want to make it worse. I figure I can lay off the swimming until this weekend and be fine for my sprint on Feb 18th. Should I lay off completely for a few days (I really don't won't to) but also don't want to lose any conditioning. How do you fix back sprains? I am guessing it is a sprain. The pain is in my lower back about 4 inches about the waist line. Any thoughts, tricks to heal faster are appreciated. Thanks-William William, go see a specialist. It's hard even for yourself to assess the damage, even tougher for me to guess. I don't know the extent of your injury but I'll tell you this, giving up on a race or more to get healthy is worth it. People that continues on with training while injured only perpetuates the issue even to the point of making it chronic. It is a lifetime sport so losing a month, two or even six is better than having to give it all up.Just my two cents... |
| 2012-01-12 9:53 AM in reply to: #3985906 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED JBacarella - 2012-01-12 9:17 AM Jim,I have been listening to the on going discussions about Maffletone, and read a couple of acticles, and I have a few questions. -Does this training method apply to all three disciplines? If so, then how? -I read how to do the intitial running test in a Mark Allen article, so, what is the test for the bike and swim? -I have seen some run tests posted that show minimal improvement after the first month, is that typical, or is that just the result of consistant training? -How does hydration affect heart rate when using this method? -I saw a criticism that compared Maffletone to BMI, basically,stating it is good if you are just starting, but it is overgeneralized, especially if you already have a strong heart rate. How do you address that? -I also, saw that in the 3 week tests the people had a consistant time for miles 1-5, do others get similiar results (I tend to rabbit and then fade and I would like to make that go away)? -How does it compare to the run walk method for distance and time?
Are those all the questions you have? Sure there's no more? hehe. - It applies to all three, but it is really hard to assess the HR while swimming, and perception in the water is always that you're going harder than what you actually are. The way to measure is by heart rate and RPE (rate of perceived exertion) being the HR the most accurate. - For the bike, you choose a flat course with no stop lights or signs, set your Garmin to give you splits every mile (autolap feature) and after a 15 minute WU you get your heart rate up to (180-age) and keep steady at it for 30 minutes. For swims, there's no way to test unless you get a swimming heart rate monitor. I wouldn't worry about it. - Anything that has to do with endurance will give you slow results, nothing happens overnight. However many folks in this thread will swear by quick results applying this method. That includes me. - Hydration (the lack of) will increase your heart rate dramatically, even to the point of giving you health issues. The electrolyte balance (also addressed in the book) is crucial to good training and racing performance. - Some of that is true, it is generalized in some ways. It is a fact that there's more fine tuning and testing to be done if you want to nail exact paces, heart rates, lactate thresholds, etc. However we are not pros, I guess it depends on how bad you want a podium spot. - When you read the book you will see that at MAF (maximum aerobic force) your first mile will be the fastest and then decrease. The fitter you are, the less your HR and pace will decouple. If your first mile is not the fastest, your warm up was not done properly. - I never compared Galloway's walk/run method to Maffetone's, but I don't think they're contradictory simply because both methods look for a low HR. Walk/run is a race strategy in Ironman races, if you don't walk the aid stations you're guaranteed to bonk in the marathon, so I would say that walking becomes proportionally more necessary as the race gets longer. I would never use the walk/run strategy while racing anything under a half marathon. Good questions, piece of cake, dude.
Edited by ernestov 2012-01-12 9:55 AM |
| 2012-01-12 10:26 AM in reply to: #3986022 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Ernestov Are those all the questions you have? Sure there's no more? hehe. Ok, so here are my follow up questions: -The track is currently being covered in 3-5 inches of snow ( winter came back -If so to have a good base do I always have to test on a treadmill and trainer? -Or can a do an initial test on the treadmill and trainer, test every 3 weeks, until Spring comes, then change it so I am testing on the track and on the road with my bike. -Or would the solution be go into normal winter mode of running in trail shoes and Yaks Trax, and then when the weather breaks switch to normal running shoes and and biking outside. -or am I thinking about this too much and I just need to get off my backside, buy the book, do the initial test (If I am convinced to make the change), and DO IT. Edited by JBacarella 2012-01-12 10:28 AM |
), I do have available an indoor track, but 17.25 times around the track = a mile and I am dodging walkers. It is difficult to get a consistant time on this track. I won't be able to ride my bike outside until April. So can the tests be performed on a treadmill and a bike trainer?| 2012-01-12 10:45 AM in reply to: #3986118 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED JBacarella - 2012-01-12 10:26 AM Jim,Ernestov Are those all the questions you have? Sure there's no more? hehe. Ok, so here are my follow up questions: -The track is currently being covered in 3-5 inches of snow ( winter came back -If so to have a good base do I always have to test on a treadmill and trainer? -Or can a do an initial test on the treadmill and trainer, test every 3 weeks, until Spring comes, then change it so I am testing on the track and on the road with my bike. -Or would the solution be go into normal winter mode of running in trail shoes and Yaks Trax, and then when the weather breaks switch to normal running shoes and and biking outside. -or am I thinking about this too much and I just need to get off my backside, buy the book, do the initial test (If I am convinced to make the change), and DO IT. First of all, I never thought you would have any more questions, you're tough to please! - Do your testing on the treadmill and the trainer. It is actually better because the conditions can be repeated almost to perfection. - Retest in the same conditions: temperature, level of rest, and place. - GO BUY THE BOOK, AND DRINK THE KOOL AID!
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| 2012-01-12 10:49 AM in reply to: #3942748 |
| Veteran 306 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED I agree generally with Maffetone's principles, i.e. go mostly slow. And I think that there is a huge benefit to spending lots of time at a low heartrate. However, I also have a problem with his 180-age formula and use my LTHR (that I've tested for) instead. He admitted in this post (he's actually posted on BT! very cool) that there is no scientific backing for the 180 number. His 180-age number and my heart rate zones happen to correspond closely but the lack of scientific backing bothers me. It seems that people generally perform well when they spend time at low heartrates but not necessarily at 180-age. "The number 180 in itself has no meaning, nor does 180-age, which is just a means to an end. (The number 180 came to me in the shower one day after a long run, one of those “ah ha” moments.) The important part of the formula is the adjustment (choosing category a, b, c, or d). With this, my attempt was to convert ones chronological age (in years) to physiological age (how healthy we are)." You can see the whole thread here: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-post.asp... |
| 2012-01-12 11:09 AM in reply to: #3986196 |
Veteran 149 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Blew it yesterday. Work is starting to get really intense again. Tried waking up very early today and then I saw it raining and went back to sleep. Not going to miss another day. Im going to try and log an hour on the trainer tonight. I wish I had more time. |
| 2012-01-12 11:11 AM in reply to: #3986196 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Just a heads up. The Kindle version of The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing by Phil Maffetone is available for the low low price of ZERO DOLLARS for Amazon Prime members. Note you don't need a Kindle to read the Kindle version. You only need a computer, an iPad, an iPhone or any Android device. The Kindle app for these is free. Amazon Prime is, I think, $100 a year, but I love it. Free two-day shipping on almost anything at Amazon and a ton of free streaming movies, and a bunch of kindle books for free. The free shipping easily pays for the $100 a year for me. Finally, I think you can get 30 days free if you sign up. You can then cancel after 29 days and pay nothing. (Although you may lose access to the free books after that. Not sure.) Edited by chris2533 2012-01-12 11:11 AM |
| 2012-01-12 11:31 AM in reply to: #3942748 |
Master 1780 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED 11.98 miles on the bike (If I had known, I would have ride another 0.02 miles). Working on cadence, avg. 92, max. 99, avg. speed 17.3 mph (best avg. speed so far). Actually planned a 10.5 mile ride but took a wrong turn , so to compensate I had to go a little longer. Longest ride for me yet. - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" |
| 2012-01-12 11:34 AM in reply to: #3986264 |
Expert 1109 Guatemala | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED chris2533 - 2012-01-12 11:11 AM Just a heads up. The Kindle version of The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing by Phil Maffetone is available for the low low price of ZERO DOLLARS for Amazon Prime members. Note you don't need a Kindle to read the Kindle version. You only need a computer, an iPad, an iPhone or any Android device. The Kindle app for these is free. Amazon Prime is, I think, $100 a year, but I love it. Free two-day shipping on almost anything at Amazon and a ton of free streaming movies, and a bunch of kindle books for free. The free shipping easily pays for the $100 a year for me. Finally, I think you can get 30 days free if you sign up. You can then cancel after 29 days and pay nothing. (Although you may lose access to the free books after that. Not sure.)
Thanks for posting Chris, this is great for those that don't have the book yet. Amazon Prime is actually $72 a year and like you, I also love it! I do believe you get to keep the books even if you decide to cancel after the free 30 day trial period. Someone had posted that in the UK they could not get access to the book yet. Being also international here in Guatemala, hotspot shield is a good free software that actually masks your IP address, therefore allowing you to surf the web as if you were in the US!
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| 2012-01-12 11:38 AM in reply to: #3942748 |
Expert 1109 Guatemala | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Today, morning long run targeting MAF HR (avg was a little higher at 141, but we have a lot of hills here and I refuse to walk): 2:01:25, 12.38 Mi - Gabe 11 days 25:47:50" - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" |
| 2012-01-12 12:03 PM in reply to: #3942748 |
Expert 1109 Guatemala | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED OK gang, here is the group's race calendar so that we can keep track of everyone's January races and their progress/results. Anyone else racing and wishing to add their data, just go ahead and repost it.
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| 2012-01-12 12:30 PM in reply to: #3986345 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Another run to forget at lunchtime, my body is rebeling the sugar starvation. - Gabe 11 days 25:47:50" - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" ------------------------------ |
| 2012-01-12 12:30 PM in reply to: #3986179 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED JBacarella - 2012-01-12 10:26 AM Jim,Ernestov Are those all the questions you have? Sure there's no more? hehe. Ok, so here are my follow up questions: -The track is currently being covered in 3-5 inches of snow ( winter came back -If so to have a good base do I always have to test on a treadmill and trainer? -Or can a do an initial test on the treadmill and trainer, test every 3 weeks, until Spring comes, then change it so I am testing on the track and on the road with my bike. -Or would the solution be go into normal winter mode of running in trail shoes and Yaks Trax, and then when the weather breaks switch to normal running shoes and and biking outside. -or am I thinking about this too much and I just need to get off my backside, buy the book, do the initial test (If I am convinced to make the change), and DO IT.
First of all, I never thought you would have any more questions, you're tough to please! - Do your testing on the treadmill and the trainer. It is actually better because the conditions can be repeated almost to perfection. - Retest in the same conditions: temperature, level of rest, and place. - GO BUY THE BOOK, AND DRINK THE KOOL AID! I will sit in the back pew but I'm not ready to come to the alter. |
| 2012-01-12 12:34 PM in reply to: #3986512 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Only had 45 minutes to give to the sufferfest today. I decided to let the snow do its thing tonight and run tomorrow - Gabe 12 days 25:47:50" - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" - Jim 12 days 10:03'23" ------------------------------ Edited by JBacarella 2012-01-12 12:43 PM |
| 2012-01-12 12:36 PM in reply to: #3942748 |
Expert 1109 Guatemala | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Correcting my # of days - Gabe 12 days 25:47:50" - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" - Jim 12 days 10:03'23" ------------------------------ |
| 2012-01-12 12:37 PM in reply to: #3986264 |
Expert 1480 Somewhere in the Swamps of Philly | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED chris2533 - 2012-01-12 12:11 PMJust a heads up. The Kindle version of The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing by Phil Maffetone is available for the low low price of ZERO DOLLARS for Amazon Prime members. Note you don't need a Kindle to read the Kindle version. You only need a computer, an iPad, an iPhone or any Android device. The Kindle app for these is free. Amazon Prime is, I think, $100 a year, but I love it. Free two-day shipping on almost anything at Amazon and a ton of free streaming movies, and a bunch of kindle books for free. The free shipping easily pays for the $100 a year for me. Finally, I think you can get 30 days free if you sign up. You can then cancel after 29 days and pay nothing. (Although you may lose access to the free books after that. Not sure.) FWIW. I bought the book for $1.99 on my iPad using the Kindle app. |
| 2012-01-12 12:42 PM in reply to: #3942748 |
| New user 19 Houston, TX | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Avoiding work and updating my times. - Gabe 12 days 25:47:50" - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" - Jim 12 days 10:03'23" ------------------------------ - William 6 days 5:01'15" |
| 2012-01-12 12:47 PM in reply to: #3986545 |
Expert 2811 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED I was double posted just cleaing things up. - Gabe 12 days 25:47:50" - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" - Jim 12 days 10:03'23" ------------------------------ - William 6 days 5:01'15" |
| 2012-01-12 12:58 PM in reply to: #3942748 |
Expert 1608 Grapevine, Texas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Swim and spin class today. Finally getting some swim coaching, so the pool sessions are very short to rebuild my stroke the right way this time - Gabe 12 days 25:47:50" - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" - Carol 12 days 15:33'00" - Jim 12 days 10:03'23" ------------------------------ - William 6 days 5:01'15" Edited by squirt 2012-01-12 12:59 PM |
. Not doing the weight challenge per se, but weighed in under 120 lbs for the first time since I was in my 20's today! Down 28 lbs since Nov 2010, yay!| 2012-01-12 1:07 PM in reply to: #3942748 |
Expert 1608 Grapevine, Texas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Thanks for putting together a grid for this Gabe! I hesitate to put down the goal I did. Had to take some time off training to let an ankle sprain recover, so hasn't been ideal. I was going to put off my goal of a sub 2:00 half until Cowtown. But I'm feeling good as of now, so ready or not I'm going for it.
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| 2012-01-12 1:35 PM in reply to: #3986621 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED I'm putting down what the running calculators extrapolate from my Thanksgiving 10k.
Edited by chris2533 2012-01-12 2:52 PM |
| 2012-01-12 2:48 PM in reply to: #3942748 |
Veteran 452 Colorado Springs | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED Jumping on the Amazon Prime bandwagon... It pays for itself with the shipping. Also, I've found that I can order our Heed, and Endurox (yes I use a recovery shake) cheaper and with Prime I get fast shipping. Even if it's not free it is cheap. The Book if free but you are "borrowing" it. You don't have to return it though until you want another book. It's great. Plus there are a good about of kindle version books you can get free not to mention the streaming video and games (our son saved and bought the kindle fire). For today I wimped out and went to the gym. Temps around 28 but wind chill still brutal with 15mph winds. I didn't want to wait till it warmed up to the 30's. Easy controlled run at 1hr with HR of 150 pace of 13:38. I just went on auto pilot... - Gabe 12 days 25:47:50" - Mitch 12 days 16:15'00" - Carol 12 days 15:33'00" - Jen 12 days 13:59'24" - Joe P 12 days 12:02'34" - Jim 12 days 10:03'23" ------------------------------ - William 6 days 5:01'15" |
| 2012-01-12 3:11 PM in reply to: #3942748 |
Expert 1109 Guatemala | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED I'm updating my race post with my target time which is what I did last year (back then it was my new PR). I'm shooting to equal or even improve my time for this race, since it is a tough HM with over 1000 ft of climbing. It will be great to see how all the IM/smarter training comes into play compared to my performance last year.
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| 2012-01-12 3:24 PM in reply to: #3942748 |
Veteran 452 Colorado Springs | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED The 5k is scheduled for this weekend but to be honest, I'm a bit scared to do it. I need to run it so that I have a fresh accurate gauge as to where I'm at with speed work starting. It would give me a good idea of the pace I should be doing. On the other hand I haven't really raced since LA and the Turkey Run here, I stopped with about a mile to go to walk with my daughter. hmmmm... Can't believe I'm scared!!! |
| 2012-01-12 3:27 PM in reply to: #3986970 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group (third season) - CLOSED sirgab - 2012-01-12 3:11 PM Gabe, make sure to use your race credits to take a day off before and a day off after. You need it.I'm updating my race post with my target time which is what I did last year (back then it was my new PR). I'm shooting to equal or even improve my time for this race, since it is a tough HM with over 1000 ft of climbing. It will be great to see how all the IM/smarter training comes into play compared to my performance last year.
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