GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 47)

stevebradley - 2010-01-26 4:57 AM STEVE - As usual with your posts, there is a lot to respond to! For your run, that length and pace sound great. Clicking off 8:30 miles for 90 minutes is excellent, and it seems as if your run conditioning is building very nicely to where you want it to be in three months. Your leg problem MIGHT be shin splints, but better that than a stress-fracture, which is a deal-breaker. The fact that you are not feeling anything while running is a good sign, at least in terms of a s.f. If it's shin splints, ice will help a lot -- as should new shoes, I am sure. But shin splints -- a deceptive term, it turns out. I can't give you the gospel on this, but the term is used broadly to describe tenderness or soreness along about 2-6 inches of the tibia (shin). But there are several muscle/temdon groups there, including the posterior muscle and tendon, the anterior muscle and tendon, and the peroneus muscles and tendons. I think it's correct to say that most people who have "shin splints" feel it on the medial side, which would be the posterior group. In general, anterior shin pain is the result of tight calf muscles, while posterior tibial shin pain can be brought on by overpronation or shoes that are overworn. So if your problem is on the inside of your leg, going for new shoes might be an almost instant cure. What shoes are you currently wearing? You've probably told me, but I've forgotten. It turns out that many people who suffer shin splints need some medial posting in their shoes to help control foot movement. In my experience, here are some telltale signs to look for, beyond the broad problem areas mentioned above: (1) Is you discomfort somewhat diffuse, that is, spread out along a few inches of the shin? (2) Is the discomfort very localized, about dime size? (3) Does your shin pain start around or under your ankle bone, and then exyend up from there? If (2), then a stress fracture might be a concern; it sure was for me! If (3), then it might be posterior tibial tendonitis. I get this periodically, and Anne had it recently. For me it is a botheration, not a deal-breaker If (1), then it might be the general notion of "shin splints" with the muscles and tendons being affected, or it could be that the periosteum has been pulled away from the tibia. The periosteum is a membrane of some type, but I cannot tell you what its fubction is. I think, however, that periosteum problems are at the tale end of more conventional muscle and tendon strains, so I wouldn't worry about that one yet. Again, going back to my experience, a tibial stress fracture meant I couldn't run four steps before the pain was unbearable. "Shin splints", as I remember them hurt at the starts of runs but got better as the run progressed. They would then hurt for a while after stopping, and icing really helped a lot. I have a vague recollection of periodic "throbs" of aching at night, but I might be confusing that with somehting else. And posterior tibial tendonitis, for me, is unpredictable. Most actual runs are okay, but the soreness can persist at a low level for quite some time when I'm not running. It also responds well to ice. Shoes! Shoes! Get new shoes! (And remember to tell me what make and model you are wearing, okay?) I'll send this, then return in a while.

stevebradley - 2010-01-26 7:30 AM ARTHUR - Okay, it's 48+ hours after that hilly 17, and I'm wondering if DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) has set in yet. I mean, above and beyond the leg soreness from the hills? If your legs feel OVERALL awful, it is probably DOMS and it will go away in a day or two. Hang in there! As for tactics for doing downhills, I'll try to tell you what works for me. On moderate hills, I just try to maintain my stride while leaning into it just a bit more. But while doing this, i am not trying to overstride, although lots of people do this and succeed at it. I am certain my stride is lengthening, but I'm trying not to allow it to too much. I am also trying not to get my weight too far forwrd, or to land further up on my toes. It is a controlled lean I am employing, and still aiming for a midfoot+ strike. For steeper hills, I will consciously lean back some -- but not enough to make it so that I have to absorb the impact of my hills. At least for me, the "braking" affect can cause problems in three different places -- knees, quads, hips. Hips has never been a problem for me, really, but I have found in the past that if I adjust my footfall to minimize knee impact, I feel it in my quads. As much as possible on steeeper hills, I try to maintain my same stride. I may lean back some.....but I am also trying to allow gravity to assist me. That is definitely a goal with more moderate hills, but it is also one for steep hills -- just not as attainable. Two other aspects are being loose, and going with the flow. The latter really means to allow gravity to do its thing on my behalf, and the former just means to get tense up as the descent steepens. Getting tense (shoulders, arms) is easy for me to do on steep hills, but once I become aware of it and loosen up, everything gets easier. It's like the looseness just swarms down to my legs and feet, and I have a better sense of the slope and how I am navigating it. I know that probably sounds airy-fairy, but simply relaxing on a downhill works for me. In general I strive to run relaxed, but on hills the benefits of doing so are acutely noticeable. I hope some of the above helps!

thall0672 - 2010-01-26 8:56 AM Hello all. Back from Vail, CO. It was totally fabulous! We had a constant stream of fresh powder. Skiing was great, but I'm hurting now! This was my first time out this season so the muscles are still pretty sore. I took a pretty bad fall on my last day. Did a couple somersaults then whacked the back of my head really good. Ouch... thank goodness I wear a helmet. My neck is still really feeling it though. On top of that I have a new cold! So I'm taking it easy for a few days and getting started on my reading, which I'm excited about! Here are the books I got: Triathlon Swimming Made Easy (the TI book by Terry Laughlin) Idiot's Guide to Triathlon Training The Triathlete's Training Bible Hope everyone is doing great. Tracey

stevebradley - 2010-01-27 7:57 AM ANNE - I've been told that the name for the neuroma between the 2nd and 3rd toes is Heuter's --- which may or may not be the right name, and may or may not be the right spelling! I'm pretty sure it's the right name, and is pronounced HOY-turz. As it goiters. That's the one that eventually brought me to surgery in January '06 (can it be that long ago??), which turned out to be a good move. It's kind of hard to imagine a bundle of nerves creating so much discomfort, but there you have it. I had some success with compression pads marketed under the name of Metatarsal Lift, from Pro-Tec Athletics (www.injurybegone.com), but it wasn't enough to keep me away from the surgeon. But that was me, and they might work for you. It's certainly a good first-line of attack, if you haven't tried it before. But if your own orthotics have a built-it pad or ridge, then that might be enough. Keep me posted on how the neuroma is acting. And you're off on the run program! Ta-da! Well done, and especially good that the tibial tendon settled down. When mine ails me, it is very much hit-and-run. Stealth attacks. Zip, zap. Here today, gone tomorrow. There is nothing obvious that gets it going*, so it's a bit tough to manage. *(Probably didn't need the asterisk, as this closely follows it.) I used to use stability shoes, and one of the hints I had that they were too much shoe for me was the posterior tibial tendon. At the time my shoes were Asics 2000-series for trianing, Asics DS Trainer for racing -- except I used the DS more than the 20xx. It came to pass that whenever I would use the 20xx, the pos. tib. ten. would act up, so for me the culprit was too much medial posting; the D.S. Trainer has less posting, so it didn't affcet my p.t.t. That eventually led me to neutral shoes, and those work great for just about everything -- p.t.t. included. It can act up on me occasionally, and I think that is when the outside of my shoe gets worn down too much, putting me in essentailly the same position that medial posting does. (I under-pronate quite dramatically.) And the p.t.t. is only a problem on the left foot.

stevebradley - 2010-01-27 5:33 AM STEVE again - "......the real course should be a cinch! LOL" Well, I'm hoping that the LOL part isn't necessary. I'm not saying that the course will be easy, to be sure, but I'm a big believer in the benefits of controlled, methodical spinning up hills, especially when they are accompanied by a sense of mental calm. For me and tough race climbs, I get a lot of mileage out of just steadying myself and bearing down -- actually, it's almost "easing down". I try not to get tense at all, and simply work at clicking off those circles. This probably sounds Zen-like, and it might be -- I'm not Zennish at all, except maybe on hills in races! I do not view myself as a good climber, and I don't have hills close by to train on, and ~175 pounds doesn't help much.......but in most hilly races i easily pass most people that are on the hill with me. I just see them as "fighting" the hill, trying to muscle their way over it, and so my approach seems to work quite well be comparison. So if you can keep working at at climbing those canyons, that should help a LOT at SG. Have you switched out cassettes yet? Good to hear the shin is better, and also that if anything the discomfort is diffuse rather than tightly localized. Whew! I mean, no shin pain is the obvious goal, but in my experience if there must be shin pain, better that it be diffused! Your training for the SG run sounds great. Relentless ups and doens are not ideal, so as long as you have a feel for that from your training, that'll make those 26.2 miles in Utah that much more tolerable. I have no earthly idea how I could manage to effectively train for that SG run, so you are very fortunate to have a few places near you that to some degree mimic the topography of SG.