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2009-07-08 9:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
GordoByrn - 2009-07-07 9:48 PM
junthank - 2009-07-06 8:32 AM G,

Did the Poker Pacing Run earlier today on a 85 minute run.  Not easy.  Question regarding what I set as  HR's targets for each 3rd of the workout.... <135, < 140, <145.  Is the 5 bpm difference too small.  Should the spread be larger?  I'm not totally certain but when I start to hit the low 150's on the run I know that I'm going to start to fade on the run.  I feel pretty good in the low 140's and can sustain for a long distance.

Notes for my run workout this morning below.

Thanks.

------------------------
Plan was EC-R3_Poker Pacing Run (28 min <135, 28<140, 28<145). Did OK with regard to HR the 1st 1/2 of the run. During the last 1/3 it was difficult to keep the HR below 145 (kept creeping up into the low 150's). 10:1 run/walk for 1st hour. Then went to 9:1 the last intervals. Did the workout based solely upon HR - not pace per se. This drill was not easy (a la the swim descending drill the 1st couple times I attempted it). Perhaps my HR ranges are to close to one another (only 5 bpm difference at each threshold level). Also, I didn't take water with me and it was hot so that could account for some of the drift. Just need to keep practicing and get more accustomed to my physiology.

I think the goal of this workout is of course to finish strong. However, for me the broader lesson at my stage is mental control. Can I have a plan and mentally execute it (and that means holding back!!) for 90 minutes on the run. Not easy the 1st time. Need to get better at this.a
------------------------


Any idea how pace changed across this workout?

Not 100% certain how the pace changed.  I do know that I picked up the pace a little at the start of the 2nd interval but I can't quantify (just based upon perception).  I also do know that by the end of the run I was slowing down a bit.  Next time I'll take note of the actual time/pace of each interval.  My pace for the entire run was a bit slower than what I would normally run as a result of starting slower at the beginning. 

What happens to pace if you hold in low 140s?  What's "long distance" in terms of duration for you?

I probably should not have used the term "long distance".  This was one of my run endurance build days.  So the run (a little over 8 miles - 85 minutes) was pretty long for me at this stage.  I guess what I should of said was that when running at a 135-140 HR range I feel pretty comfortable.  When I get up into the 150's on my "longer" runs I know that I'm starting to tire.

The spread should be tight in terms of pace, to achieve this you'll likely have to start easy (in HR terms) -- you never want to have to "race" to hold pace at the end.  You're looking for comfortable aerobic effort.

I really didn't note the intervals in terms of pace - I'll pay more attention to that detail in the future.  I just tried to adjust my pace according to HR.  So the 5 bpm spread in HR thresholds for each interval was probably appropriate?  Perhaps I just need to start out easier - although I thought I was going pretty slow initially.  Like I said, this is all new to me and I just have to get use to my pace/HR in different conditions (treadmill vs. outdoor) while increasing my endurance.

Some other tips...

Then Dr. J's article on how he developed the PP workout:
http://www.gordoworld.com/alternativeperspectives/2007/08/poker-pacing.html

I'll check this out.
++

Also read Running Well to understand how/why to build your run endurance from the bottom up:
http://xtri.com/coaches_display.aspx?riIDReport=5685&CAT=48&xref=xx


This is actually the article I read that induced me to do this particular run. 
++

So what you want to build (first) is your capacity to hold "easy pace" without having to crank effort up at the end.

In fact, the concepts that you detailed in "Building World Class Endurance" are my training "mantra" now (AeT of 150% race duration in a single day, 300% in a week).  My next big goal is an HIM - so I've got some work to do.  I'll get there!!

g 


Edited by junthank 2009-07-08 4:14 PM

2009-07-08 10:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
GordoByrn - 2009-07-07 9:48 PM
junthank - 2009-07-06 8:32 AM G,

Then Dr. J's article on how he developed the PP workout:
http://www.gordoworld.com/alternativeperspectives/2007/08/poker-pacing.html

"If my elevated heart rate in final 1/3 results in a faster pace, I think it is safe to say I have the appropriate fitness to run that pace AND that I’ve chosen a pace that is reasonable for that fitness. On the other hand, when my extra effort at the end doesn’t result in a faster pace, then I’ve chosen too fast of a pace".

Got it!!  I guess I should use this benchmark to determine appropriate pacing levels for particular distances.  Going forward I'll use this as a means of measuring my fitness level over time.  By "extra effort" I take that to mean higher HR/higher RPE".

As you have been saying since day one.... "Leave room to lift your effort in the 2nd half."  I'm slowly starting to get it - it has taken about 8 months now!!!
g 



Edited by junthank 2009-07-08 4:12 PM
2009-07-08 5:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
junthank - 2009-07-08 9:54 AM
GordoByrn - 2009-07-07 9:48 PM
junthank - 2009-07-06 8:32 AM G,

Then Dr. J's article on how he developed the PP workout:
http://www.gordoworld.com/alternativeperspectives/2007/08/poker-pacing.html

"If my elevated heart rate in final 1/3 results in a faster pace, I think it is safe to say I have the appropriate fitness to run that pace AND that I’ve chosen a pace that is reasonable for that fitness. On the other hand, when my extra effort at the end doesn’t result in a faster pace, then I’ve chosen too fast of a pace".

Got it!!  I guess I should use this benchmark to determine appropriate pacing levels for particular distances.  Going forward I'll use this as a means of measuring my fitness level over time.  By "extra effort" I take that to mean higher HR/higher RPE".

As you have been saying since day one.... "Leave room to lift your effort in the 2nd half."  I'm slowly starting to get it - it has taken about 8 months now!!!
g 



8 mths is quick - there can be a lot of mental resistance to these concepts.  

Here's an example of pacing from my bike ride today.  Lifted a touch too high at the back end but reasonable.  Note that HR is not very meaningful early due to cool temps and feeling comfortable.  You'll see a similar thing with your running.  So don't push HR early as it will result in material pace fade later...

196 watts for 4:03 @ 119 bpm
Key aerobic benchmarking session
Segment analysis:
Warm-up was very eay to Hwy 52 then:
46:00 194w, 111 bpm to Dacono
54:31, 209w, 120 bpm to Hudson
43:49, 216w, 128 bpm back to Dacono
33:36, 220w, 134 bpm to finish back to IBM
196 watts for 4:03 @ 119 bpm
Key aerobic benchmarking session
Segment analysis:
Warm-up was very eay to Hwy 52 then:
46:00 194w, 111 bpm to Dacono
54:31, 209w, 120 bpm to Hudson
43:49, 216w, 128 bpm back to Dacono
33:36, 220w, 134 bpm to finish back to IBM

If I had capped myself ~215w then I probably would have been able to have a slightly tighter HR zone, still, I didn't blow way out and was able to keep the entire session comfortably aerobic with slightly increasing output.

Very few people are willing to train this "easy" -- what this type of training does is build your capacity to "do work" -- so when it is time to do more intense training you will have the capacity to absorb it.

g 
2009-07-09 9:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
GordoByrn - 2009-07-08 6:57 PM
junthank - 2009-07-08 9:54 AM
GordoByrn - 2009-07-07 9:48 PM
junthank - 2009-07-06 8:32 AM G,

HR/higher RPE".

As you have been saying since day one.... "Leave room to lift your effort in the 2nd half."  I'm slowly starting to get it - it has taken about 8 months now!!!
g 



196 watts for 4:03 @ 119 bpm
Key aerobic benchmarking session
Segment analysis:
Warm-up was very eay to Hwy 52 then:
46:00 194w, 111 bpm to Dacono
54:31, 209w, 120 bpm to Hudson
43:49, 216w, 128 bpm back to Dacono
33:36, 220w, 134 bpm to finish back to IBM
196 watts for 4:03 @ 119 bpm
Key aerobic benchmarking session
Segment analysis:
Warm-up was very eay to Hwy 52 then:
46:00 194w, 111 bpm to Dacono
54:31, 209w, 120 bpm to Hudson
43:49, 216w, 128 bpm back to Dacono
33:36, 220w, 134 bpm to finish back to IBM

If I had capped myself ~215w then I probably would have been able to have a slightly tighter HR zone, still, I didn't blow way out and was able to keep the entire session comfortably aerobic with slightly increasing output.

Very few people are willing to train this "easy" -- what this type of training does is build your capacity to "do work" -- so when it is time to do more intense training you will have the capacity to absorb it.

g 


Thanks for the information.  I can clearly see from your workout that your HR was increasing along with your power/watts which is what you want to achieve.  I think what I saw in my run workout was an increase in HR but a leveling or slight reduction in pace.  I understand the concept now and know what I'm trying to achieve.  I'll just have to play with the variables (pace, water, heat) to get the desired results. 
2009-07-12 10:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
G,

I read your your blog that was posted this weekend and I thought of a question regarding my specific training.  One of the things you mentioned was shooting for the following benchmark:
  • Running - hold fresh AeT pace for 40/80/120 minutes

Obviously your training plan and my training plan are quite different.  However, with regard to holding fresh AeT pace for 3 intervals (i.e. somewhat similar to Poker Pace Run) is it better to achieve this benchmark before increasing the distance of one's run (building endurance)?  This question kind of relates to my recent questions regarding run workouts where I experienced some fade during the last third of the run.  Obviously I have some experimenting to do with pace and HR levels per your suggestions.  Should I NOT increase the time of my run build days until I have successfully completed the Poker Pace Run (where the last 1/3 of a run at a particular HR results in a faster pace).  Up until today I have done the following with regard to my run build day:

Week 1 - Run Distance
Week 2 - Run Distance Week 1 + 5 minutes
Week 3 - Recovery Week - scale back run
Week 4 - Run Distance of Week 2
Week 5 - Run Distance of Week 4 + 5 minutes
Etc......

I build this up to 120 minutes (I'm, currently at 85 minutes).

Hope this makes sense!!!
 

2009-07-13 9:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
junthank - 2009-07-12 9:01 PM G,

I read your your blog that was posted this weekend and I thought of a question regarding my specific training.  One of the things you mentioned was shooting for the following benchmark:
  • Running - hold fresh AeT pace for 40/80/120 minutes

Obviously your training plan and my training plan are quite different.  However, with regard to holding fresh AeT pace for 3 intervals (i.e. somewhat similar to Poker Pace Run) is it better to achieve this benchmark before increasing the distance of one's run (building endurance)?  This question kind of relates to my recent questions regarding run workouts where I experienced some fade during the last third of the run.  Obviously I have some experimenting to do with pace and HR levels per your suggestions.  Should I NOT increase the time of my run build days until I have successfully completed the Poker Pace Run (where the last 1/3 of a run at a particular HR results in a faster pace).  Up until today I have done the following with regard to my run build day:

Week 1 - Run Distance
Week 2 - Run Distance Week 1 + 5 minutes
Week 3 - Recovery Week - scale back run
Week 4 - Run Distance of Week 2
Week 5 - Run Distance of Week 4 + 5 minutes
Etc......

I build this up to 120 minutes (I'm, currently at 85 minutes).

Hope this makes sense!!!
 



What I have been doing is reducing my early pace to give myself a better shot at holding pace at the end without having to crank up effort/HR.

I can't get past 80 minutes right now without decoupling (pace down/HR up) so I'm not forcing it.  I'm using the bike for my long endurance and that seems to be going OK for me.

For you, my advice would be to not worry about speeding up until you have built the capacity hold easy pace.   In other words, if you try to speed up at the end on the long run, without the endurance to hold pace... then it is going to be very taxing and you'll have to lift effort considerably.  

In my first long run (five weeks ago) I tried to speed up but I was running a Threshold effort by the end.  I made a decision that sort of effort was risking my consistency and adjusted the session goal downwards.  I don't yet have the capacity to do those Poker Paced runs for my long sessions.

g 

2009-07-20 12:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
Gordo,

      Took your advice awhile ago about focusing on relaxing on my swims and it has been working out great.  I can swim almost 400 meters without my breathing falling apart.  I did a sprint tri this weekend and did the 750 in 14 mins.  I still need alot of work but i feel alot better about my swimming.  I also place 2nd in Clyde and 28th overall out of 199.  Just thought i'd update you.  Thanks.

Hooah,

Boom
2009-07-20 1:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
Boom808 - 2009-07-20 11:27 AM Gordo,

      Took your advice awhile ago about focusing on relaxing on my swims and it has been working out great.  I can swim almost 400 meters without my breathing falling apart.  I did a sprint tri this weekend and did the 750 in 14 mins.  I still need alot of work but i feel alot better about my swimming.  I also place 2nd in Clyde and 28th overall out of 199.  Just thought i'd update you.  Thanks.

Hooah,

Boom


Boom,

Saw your name, you from the 808-state?  or is the reference to something else?

Great to hear that your swimming continues to improve.

g

 
2009-07-20 2:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
yup from Oahu! 
2009-07-20 3:03 PM
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Haven't posted much lately. Been busy on the bike and run. And a bit of swimming too

One question though - I've run this by several people (including the doc and Mike Ricci on the coaching forum) and nobody can really explain it.

Over the last 2-3 weeks on almost every workout my pace at a given heart rate is slower. Sometimes significantly (1 min\mile run, 1.5 mph on bike, 15-20 secs per 100 swim). Perceived effort matches the pace, I feel like I'm going easy, slow and I am but my heart rate is elevated. When I stop it recovers back to my normal resting range quickly - just like normal.

Morning heart rates are good (43-45 bpm every morning). No changes to diet or hydration. No abnormal 'life' stress.  Added an hour of sleep a night (now 9) with no change. Working out early morning and evening to avoid heat - no effect. Dropped all caffeine from my diet.  Supplemented salt and gone without.  I feel fantastic even when working out but can't make sense out of this.

Went to the doc, had a full workup including EKG. Nothing wrong with me that they can find. I am sticking with the HR ranges to gauge effort and I'm comfortable with it. 

The ONLY difference I can find is an increase in average cadence on the bike and run. Got my foot turnover up to 87-88 and have a bike cadence about the same. Not sure if that would account for these differences - nothing I've run across would suggest it but I'm grasping here...

BTW - My big race (Oly) is in 2 weeks. I learned a lot with the first event and I'm confident that I can finish within the time allowance at a comfortable pace. I'm capping my effort this time at my mod-hard rate (142) for the run. Swim and run will be my steady pace (130). Only goal is to finish with a smile on my face. Anything else is a bonus!

2009-07-20 5:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
gtkelly - 2009-07-20 4:03 PM

Haven't posted much lately. Been busy on the bike and run. And a bit of swimming too

One question though - I've run this by several people (including the doc and Mike Ricci on the coaching forum) and nobody can really explain it.

Over the last 2-3 weeks on almost every workout my pace at a given heart rate is slower. Sometimes significantly (1 min\mile run, 1.5 mph on bike, 15-20 secs per 100 swim). Perceived effort matches the pace, I feel like I'm going easy, slow and I am but my heart rate is elevated. When I stop it recovers back to my normal resting range quickly - just like normal.

Morning heart rates are good (43-45 bpm every morning). No changes to diet or hydration. No abnormal 'life' stress.  Added an hour of sleep a night (now 9) with no change. Working out early morning and evening to avoid heat - no effect. Dropped all caffeine from my diet.  Supplemented salt and gone without.  I feel fantastic even when working out but can't make sense out of this.

Went to the doc, had a full workup including EKG. Nothing wrong with me that they can find. I am sticking with the HR ranges to gauge effort and I'm comfortable with it. 

The ONLY difference I can find is an increase in average cadence on the bike and run. Got my foot turnover up to 87-88 and have a bike cadence about the same. Not sure if that would account for these differences - nothing I've run across would suggest it but I'm grasping here...

BTW - My big race (Oly) is in 2 weeks. I learned a lot with the first event and I'm confident that I can finish within the time allowance at a comfortable pace. I'm capping my effort this time at my mod-hard rate (142) for the run. Swim and run will be my steady pace (130). Only goal is to finish with a smile on my face. Anything else is a bonus!



I'm really interested in seeing what G says about this.  For me I have discovered that heat/humidity make a huge difference in my HR on my long runs.  I can have a 10-15 bpm difference at the same pace at the same distance from running indoors on a treadmill vs. outdoors (summertime Florida) even early in the morning.   I know you mentioned you kind of eliminated that as a factor.

Anyway, good luck with your upcoming race.

2009-07-21 8:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
gtkelly - 2009-07-20 3:03 PM

Haven't posted much lately. Been busy on the bike and run. And a bit of swimming too

One question though - I've run this by several people (including the doc and Mike Ricci on the coaching forum) and nobody can really explain it.

Over the last 2-3 weeks on almost every workout my pace at a given heart rate is slower. Sometimes significantly (1 min\mile run, 1.5 mph on bike, 15-20 secs per 100 swim). Perceived effort matches the pace, I feel like I'm going easy, slow and I am but my heart rate is elevated. When I stop it recovers back to my normal resting range quickly - just like normal.

Morning heart rates are good (43-45 bpm every morning). No changes to diet or hydration. No abnormal 'life' stress.  Added an hour of sleep a night (now 9) with no change. Working out early morning and evening to avoid heat - no effect. Dropped all caffeine from my diet.  Supplemented salt and gone without.  I feel fantastic even when working out but can't make sense out of this.

Went to the doc, had a full workup including EKG. Nothing wrong with me that they can find. I am sticking with the HR ranges to gauge effort and I'm comfortable with it. 

The ONLY difference I can find is an increase in average cadence on the bike and run. Got my foot turnover up to 87-88 and have a bike cadence about the same. Not sure if that would account for these differences - nothing I've run across would suggest it but I'm grasping here...

BTW - My big race (Oly) is in 2 weeks. I learned a lot with the first event and I'm confident that I can finish within the time allowance at a comfortable pace. I'm capping my effort this time at my mod-hard rate (142) for the run. Swim and run will be my steady pace (130). Only goal is to finish with a smile on my face. Anything else is a bonus!




Could be external factors as mentioned, such as heat/humidity.  Could be hydration on longer runs/bikes.  Very likely, especially with the training volume you have put in for this upcoming race, that you have a touch of over-training syndrome.  Probably early stages, but your HR is a good indicator of stress.  This will improve as you taper for this race, and make sure you get a good rest period after this race and see what happens.  I would bet you will be fine.

BB
2009-07-21 9:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
gtkelly - 2009-07-20 2:03 PM

Haven't posted much lately. Been busy on the bike and run. And a bit of swimming too

One question though - I've run this by several people (including the doc and Mike Ricci on the coaching forum) and nobody can really explain it.

Over the last 2-3 weeks on almost every workout my pace at a given heart rate is slower. Sometimes significantly (1 min\mile run, 1.5 mph on bike, 15-20 secs per 100 swim). Perceived effort matches the pace, I feel like I'm going easy, slow and I am but my heart rate is elevated. When I stop it recovers back to my normal resting range quickly - just like normal.

Morning heart rates are good (43-45 bpm every morning). No changes to diet or hydration. No abnormal 'life' stress.  Added an hour of sleep a night (now 9) with no change. Working out early morning and evening to avoid heat - no effect. Dropped all caffeine from my diet.  Supplemented salt and gone without.  I feel fantastic even when working out but can't make sense out of this.

Went to the doc, had a full workup including EKG. Nothing wrong with me that they can find. I am sticking with the HR ranges to gauge effort and I'm comfortable with it. 

The ONLY difference I can find is an increase in average cadence on the bike and run. Got my foot turnover up to 87-88 and have a bike cadence about the same. Not sure if that would account for these differences - nothing I've run across would suggest it but I'm grasping here...

BTW - My big race (Oly) is in 2 weeks. I learned a lot with the first event and I'm confident that I can finish within the time allowance at a comfortable pace. I'm capping my effort this time at my mod-hard rate (142) for the run. Swim and run will be my steady pace (130). Only goal is to finish with a smile on my face. Anything else is a bonus!



I would continue to monitor -- increased cadence, increase heat stress (in the mornings), even being a bit nervous can create a feedback loop where HR elevates. 

I would not adjust effort zones upwards and would accept the lower training speeds while things settle.

g 
2009-07-23 8:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
Thanks for the info. I'm a big believer in 'fast enough', so my heart rate dictates my pace all the time...

After my big race I'm taking a couple of weeks off. I've been going pretty hard the last 4 months, so it's unstructured time for me. Taking my boys on a 2-3 day trip on the Appalachian trail, mountain biking, and possibly learning to whitewater kayak will keep me active for one week (vacation). Second week in San Francisco on business. Will be nice to take a short break from the grind!

PS - August 22nd is my one year anniversary of getting off the couch, quitting smoking, and starting to exercise. I couldn't even think about doing any of the above activities one year ago. Lost too many years being sedentary - time to make up for lost time!!!
2009-07-24 3:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL


PS - August 22nd is my one year anniversary of getting off the couch, quitting smoking, and starting to exercise. I couldn't even think about doing any of the above activities one year ago. Lost too many years being sedentary - time to make up for lost time!!!


Happy Anniversary!  It's a good feeling to make the change.

g 
2009-07-24 9:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
PS - August 22nd is my one year anniversary of getting off the couch, quitting smoking, and starting to exercise. I couldn't even think about doing any of the above activities one year ago. Lost too many years being sedentary - time to make up for lost time!!!


Happy Anniversary!  You have done a great job this year.

2009-08-02 6:28 PM
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Hey all. Nice to be able to come back this time and report a completely POSITIVE race experience.

Did the Lake Logan Oly yesterday. Only goal was to make the time cutoff. Beat that by about 30 minutes - finished in 3:30.

Swim was great, bike was great (except for couple minutes lost when I dropped my chain), run was about normal for me - a slugfest - but I got through it. Did a walk\run.

Most amazing part was the way the training I learned prepared me for this. Honestly felt awesome the day after - probably could have gone harder. Actually considered a last minute sign up for the Sprint today! But decided to call it a weekend.

Not sure if it's the way the stars aligned or what, but I definitely like the longer events better. I'm not 'fast' and never will be. But I didn't slow down throughout the bike or run. In both cases the last miles were at the same pace as the first...

Pretty cool. Hope everybody had an awesome weekend.

2009-08-03 9:57 AM
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gtkelly - 2009-08-02 7:28 PM Hey all. Nice to be able to come back this time and report a completely POSITIVE race experience.

Did the Lake Logan Oly yesterday. Only goal was to make the time cutoff. Beat that by about 30 minutes - finished in 3:30.

Swim was great, bike was great (except for couple minutes lost when I dropped my chain), run was about normal for me - a slugfest - but I got through it. Did a walk\run.

Most amazing part was the way the training I learned prepared me for this. Honestly felt awesome the day after - probably could have gone harder. Actually considered a last minute sign up for the Sprint today! But decided to call it a weekend.

Not sure if it's the way the stars aligned or what, but I definitely like the longer events better. I'm not 'fast' and never will be. But I didn't slow down throughout the bike or run. In both cases the last miles were at the same pace as the first...

Pretty cool. Hope everybody had an awesome weekend.



Greg,

Read your race report and it sounded like it was a totally different experience from your last race where I believe you mentioned that you almost thru in the towel during the swim.  Like you I'm not "fast" by many peoples standard and perhaps never will be "fast".  However, I'm getting "faster" and "longer" by my standards and that's what really matters.  Congrat's on the accomplishment.

Edited by junthank 2009-08-03 10:01 AM
2009-08-03 11:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
gtkelly - 2009-08-02 6:28 PM Hey all. Nice to be able to come back this time and report a completely POSITIVE race experience.

Did the Lake Logan Oly yesterday. Only goal was to make the time cutoff. Beat that by about 30 minutes - finished in 3:30.

Swim was great, bike was great (except for couple minutes lost when I dropped my chain), run was about normal for me - a slugfest - but I got through it. Did a walk\run.

Most amazing part was the way the training I learned prepared me for this. Honestly felt awesome the day after - probably could have gone harder. Actually considered a last minute sign up for the Sprint today! But decided to call it a weekend.

Not sure if it's the way the stars aligned or what, but I definitely like the longer events better. I'm not 'fast' and never will be. But I didn't slow down throughout the bike or run. In both cases the last miles were at the same pace as the first...

Pretty cool. Hope everybody had an awesome weekend.



Congrats!  That is a great accomplishment.
2009-08-03 2:58 PM
in reply to: #2322736

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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
Nice race Greg!

g 
2009-08-04 2:40 AM
in reply to: #2324822

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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
Hey Greg excellent result for the Oly.
Got my first one on 16th and will be pleased to go round in your time and to avoid the cutoff. training has not gone to plan this last couple of months, not enough distance on either the bike or run so I think getting round will be the goal. 3'30 would be a good time for me.

Sounds like you had a great time

2009-08-06 9:02 AM
in reply to: #1856890

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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
G,

In your training log yesterday your mentioned that "HR drops much faster now and recovery is quicker when I dial down effort."  Interesting.... My assumption here is that this is a indication of fitness improvement.  I never have thought of measuring this....  Is this something that we should note during our training sessions?  If so, using my runs for example, when would one take HR measurements (at the beginning and end of the walking segment of Run/Walk)?
2009-08-09 12:48 PM
in reply to: #2331360

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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
junthank - 2009-08-06 8:02 AMG,

In your training log yesterday your mentioned that "HR drops much faster now and recovery is quicker when I dial down effort."  Interesting.... My assumption here is that this is a indication of fitness improvement.  I never have thought of measuring this....  Is this something that we should note during our training sessions?  If so, using my runs for example, when would one take HR measurements (at the beginning and end of the walking segment of Run/Walk)?
This is a HUGE measure of fitness -- it is related to what Joe Friel calls decoupling. When we lack a depth of fitness external shocks have disproportionate impact on us -- power spike, swim legs, hills, duration, heat, altitude...Now that my fitness is improving I have better fitness over time and am building reserves to cope with pace/power changes. Fast tri racing is built around the ability to tolerate pace/power changes (caused by terrain as well as optimal race strategy).I pay attention to recovery speed -- if you follow along in my workout notes then you'll see how I do it. It's easiest on the bike with my power meter -- I look for power break points that will cause me to decouple. I also insert periods of mod-hard to see what happens when I shift back to steady watts.g
2009-08-10 9:25 AM
in reply to: #2336837

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Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
GordoByrn - 2009-08-09 1:48 PM
junthank - 2009-08-06 8:02 AMG,

In your training log yesterday your mentioned that "HR drops much faster now and recovery is quicker when I dial down effort."  Interesting.... My assumption here is that this is a indication of fitness improvement.  I never have thought of measuring this....  Is this something that we should note during our training sessions?  If so, using my runs for example, when would one take HR measurements (at the beginning and end of the walking segment of Run/Walk)?
This is a HUGE measure of fitness -- it is related to what Joe Friel calls decoupling. When we lack a depth of fitness external shocks have disproportionate impact on us -- power spike, swim legs, hills, duration, heat, altitude...Now that my fitness is improving I have better fitness over time and am building reserves to cope with pace/power changes. Fast tri racing is built around the ability to tolerate pace/power changes (caused by terrain as well as optimal race strategy).I pay attention to recovery speed -- if you follow along in my workout notes then you'll see how I do it. It's easiest on the bike with my power meter -- I look for power break points that will cause me to decouple. I also insert periods of mod-hard to see what happens when I shift back to steady watts.g


Thanks.  Will continue following your workouts on Training Peaks to see how you do this.  Learning how to take/interpret information from workouts has proved to be quite fascinating.

BTW:  I listened to a couple of IMTalk podcasts this weekend when you were the guest on the show.  Lots of great stuff discussed during those interviews. 
2009-08-10 11:02 AM
in reply to: #1856890

Illinois
Subject: RE: Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL
Hey guys,
I had a pretty good race yesterday.  I got over a huge hurdle in that I was able to freestyle the entire swim protion comfortably.  I actually drafted for a bit.  I had very good transitions.  I broke the 20 mph avg on the bike.  Finished top 1/4 overall and top 1/3 AG.  Thanks for all the help so far this season.  I know I still need more consistency, volume, and experience, but I am starting to piece it together.  I am also starting to enjoy racing.  It used to be that I loved training and hated redlining during races.  That is starting to change.  Again, thanks for the knowledge and support.

Brian
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