BE the BALL Group - OPEN (Page 5)

Great work on the swim and congratulations on the new bike!!

If you were working hills on the bike you probably had a high heart rate and were working pretty hard. Your body will push blood to where it needs it and basically shut down your digestion. This is probably why you got nauseous.

So, nutrition is such an individual thing. As such you really have to experiment with things and find what works for you. Your body has enough stored energy to go for about 60-90 minutes without any additional fuel. I have even followed some people who have become fat adapted and can go for much longer. You would need fluids and electrolytes during that time. If you are planning a longer workout you have to fuel that workout appropriately. It really does not take much (you do not need a 1:1 replacement). Also, some of nutrition is training your gut to handle whatever you are going to give it on race day. That said, you should train as you plan to race.

All that said here is what I do when training for a HIM. I do not eat anything real close to a workout. If I have not eaten in a while I may eat a banana or a powerbar before a workout, especially before a swim, but I usually just get started and fuel as I go. I typically will drink 1.5 to 2 bike bottles (24 oz.) of gatorade endurance per hour on the bike. Of course that amount depends on the temperature and how much I am sweating. I add to that about a half powerbar per hour and that gets me pretty close to the calories and electrolytes that I need. On the run, I drink gatorade endurance as I feel like I need it. I have found that I really cannot take very much in on the run as this is where I am typically carrying a lot of accumulated heat because of my weight. I will try to take in about 100 calories per hour on the run in addition to the gatorade. I used to think I had a tough stomach but this triathlon thing has really put that to the test. Even in the shorter races because in those you are typically going a little harder which makes it difficult for the body to handle the whole blood to the muscles/blood to digestion equation.

My suggestion is to experiment and see what works for you. Start with as little as you can and and see how things go. Keep adding until you find that sweet spot. it really is a procees of working to find what works for you.

I agree on this point 100%. There is no one nutritional plan that will work for everyone. You have to do it in training. I did quite a bit of research looking at numerous articles to try to come up with a fueling plan for my half Ironman. I'm not sure what distance you are planning, but as Bill pointed out, most anything beyond an hour or so and you should be thinking about nutrition. Anyway, I must have read at least 8-10 articles and also solicited advice from the BT forum I was in at the time. I pooled all of that information and targeted something in the middle as my starting point. From there, I tried that formula in my training and adjusted depending on how I felt. In the end, I found that I needed to supplement with a salt lick to make sure I didn't cramp, especially on the bike.I had two episodes where my legs severely cramped at the tail end of a long bike ride. In fact, one time I had to call my wife to come get me because I was sitting on the side of the road and I wasn't even sure I'd be able to stand up without cramping. I knew I clearly didn't have my fueling strategy right and needed to make changes.

In terms of eating before a workout, I should have mentioned that I only worried about fueling training sessions over an hour. For a typical 10K run or a 16-18 mile bike ride, I don't worry about having had something to eat. But again, it all depends on your body. If you do a workout like a 10K run and find that you don't feel properly fueled, then maybe your body needs those calories. I think it is definitely important to practice your fueling during training so that you have that ironed out before race day.

I'd love to hear what Chris does since I know he is a longer tenured triathlete than I am and I know he races at a higher level of performance than I do, as well. Also, I'd be interested to hear Scott's take as well.

Short read:

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Triathlon/News/Blogs/Multisport-Lab/2018...

Been researching (again) my issues with my achilles. Some interesting articles below.


1. http://www.running-physio.com/achilles-tendinopathy/

2. http://www.running-physio.com/tendon-staging/

3. http://www.running-physio.com/insertional-achilles-tendinopathy/

. I'd love to hear what Chris does since I know he is a longer tenured triathlete than I am and I know he races at a higher level of performance than I do, as well. Also, I'd be interested to hear Scott's take as well.

I use a mix of the Gu gels and Clif Bloks on my bike. I put a very small plastic tupperware type container in the bento box on my bike and toss maybe 8-12 chews in there. I like them because I can just grab a couple quick and toss them in my mouth. With the gels, you have to get the stuff out of the pouch and then store the used pouch when you're done. The chews are easier, less messy, and no pouch to deal with. But on the run I usually just stick to the gels since I can toss the spent pouch at an aid station.

I'm curious about the Infinit. How do you know how to adjust the formula? Or are you using one of their "standard" formulas without trying to personalize it?

Just glanced at the training logs. Looks like some good work going on! Keep it up!

I have been struggling with my achilles a little and have not done any run training for about 2.5 weeks. Only one swim session as well and that just is not enough. Been doing a lot of cycling though.

On the cycling side, was feeling good on Wednesday and ended up doing an unplanned FTP (Function Threshold Power) test. You have to have a power meter to do this. Basically ride really hard for 20 minutes and get your normalized power (NP) for that 20 minutes. Multiply that by 0.95 to get your FTP. You can use your FTP to set what average power you want to race at depending on what length the race is. It really helps me to keep from over cooking things on the bike leg and having something left for the run. Anyway, my last test was in August and had a NP of 228 Watts with an FTP of 217 Watts. Wednesday had a NP of 236 Watts with an FTP of 224. Not a big jump but it is progress. When I started this power thing back in January of 2015 my NP was 122 Watts with an FTP of 116 Watts. The increases were quick at first but after about 180 Watts it has been a slow process. Just glad to see it going up.

If you don't have power you can do a heart rate test that will help set some zones to stay in while racing so that you have something left for the run. This stuff is not so critical for sprint races but is pretty important for longer races where it becomes more about how you drive you fitness vehicle around the course.

On the swim side, I am looking into getting some one on one coaching for my swim. I am just stuck at the pace that I am at and I really believe that it is more about technique at this point than it is fitness. I had not swim since last October and when I did my recent swim, I swam the same pace that I swam in training back then and I did not feel any real difference in the effort. I will let ya'll know how that goes.

On the run, I am thinking now that I have bursitis on the heel where the achilles attaches. When I got sick at the beginning of the month I thought it might be a good opportunity to rest things a little and see if it helped. I have tried resting this multiple times in the past and it never gets better. Same thing happened again. I think it has been caused by some weakness and tightness in the calf. Stretches really don't help because they just seem to aggravate things even more. Over the last few days, I have really been working on doing some calf raises for strength and foam rolling the calf to help break up some of the adhesions and tightness. I have also been taking some ibuprofen to help reduce the inflammation. It seems to be working. I am going to continue this and try to start working back in some running next week and see how things go. I know I could get a cortisone shot to help but I just really don't like to do those kinds of things.

For this weekend I have some cycling planned and that is about it.

Does anyone have any races planned for this weekend?

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Another solid week of training for me. I have a run scheduled for later tonight and then a long run tomorrow and a ride of some sort Sunday. No racing for me until March 18th for the 8k & 5k back to back road races. Sunday I drive over to Wisconsin for a weeks worth of training. Hoping to continue following my plan with a little extra time to myself since the family’s not gonna be with me. There is a gym relatively close by that has a pool, so i’m Planning on getting 2 swims in while i’m away. I’m debating on whether I should haul my bike and trainer with me or just use a stationary bike at the gym. Any thoughts on taking the triainer or using the stationary bikes? Have a great weekend everyone!

Scott

A pretty good week of training for me, too. On Monday I did the progressive treadmill workout Chris suggested. I started at 7.9 mph and increased by 0.1 mph every 3:00. I finished the first 21:00 on that schedule, then increased by 0.1 every 0.05 mile until I reached 3.1, finishing the workout in 22:30. That's a brand new PR! I took Tuesday off to rest/recover and had planned to ride my bike outside since the forecast was for temps approaching 70! Too bad I didn't look at my calendar for work because I had almost non-stop conference calls from 9:00 until 2:30! The day was a complete wash because I didn't emerge from my son's room until 9:15 at night. So I got 2 days of rest/recovery.

It must have paid off because Thursday I had my absolute best trainer workout. I put the hammer down for a half hour, finishing with an average pace of 18.82 mph. My previous best was 17.99, so I crushed it by nearly a full MPH! I jumped on the treadmill for a 1.25 mile brick run. Friday was a 10K run outside. I'll jump on the trainer at some point today for 40-50 minutes of easy riding and tomorrow will be my usual Sunday morning swim.

So a good week setting some milestones. But I didn't like having 2 straight days without doing anything. In the end, I will still have logged a workout on 5 out of 7 days, which is pretty much my target, but I prefer to take only a single day off in between workouts. This relatively warm February weather has me hoping that I'll be able to start getting some outdoor rides in during the month of March!

My n=1 thoughts. Think about how much riding you are actually planning for the week. 3 days, 30-45 minutes each day. Is that really worth dragging the stuff with you? Could you possibly get in a reasonable workout on the hotel stationary bike? I am with you though, as much as I dislike the trainer, I dislike the hotel stationary bike even more. I have taken my bike and trainer with me a couple of times and they never made it to the room. Ended up just running on the treadmill or on local routes that seemed safe. Did not even use the hotel bike. Those are my thoughts. Let us know what you decide and how the trip goes.

Work Works!!

@Scott - Nice run. Always fun to change things up a little.

Training has been good this week. I got in a short run (2.5 miles) yesterday. Things seem okay with the achilles/bursitis. Making sure to keep up the rolling and strengthening routine. Swam today, 10 x 100 intervals to work on some speed. Starting the swim coaching in the next week or so. Got in a small group masters swimming class where the coach does some one on one time to work on form and technique. Bike is good. Biking every day for an hour or so. Got in 71.8 miles so far this week.

Hope everyone is moving along and having a good week in their training.

Swim: 2h 33m 50s - 6900 M
Bike: 5h 22m - 86.77 Mi
Run: 5h 16m 11s - 36.88 Mi

That was a solid month of training for me. I logged a workout on 19/28 days (67.9%). My swim (+2624m) and bike (+1h 33m, +24.15 mi) were up, but I sacrificed a little of my running (-1h 29m, -9.02 mi).

I'd say all of those changes were according to plan. My swim was up partly due to longer workouts and partly due to the fact that I didn't miss a workout like I did in January. My bike training was up mostly due to extending the length of my workouts. I increase my average workout from a little less than 33 minutes to a little over 40 minutes. I'd like to keep up that trend and get that average up closer to 50 in March. My running would have been closer if not for only having 28 days in Feb. Also, I sacrificed a little time and distance when I started to mix in the higher intensity treadmill intervals to work on my speed.

Overall, really happy with the work I did in February. My swimming is starting to show signs of life, I set a personal best for average speed during a bike trainer session, and I dropped my treadmill 5K time down to 22:17! While I haven't tried to bike outside yet, I have started going my non-interval runs outside.

I only have 10 days until my 5K, so the rest of my runs will be lower intensity and will be done outside to add some up/down hills, maybe adding a few fartleks just for fun. I don't think I can expect to match my treadmill time, even though the course doesn't have any hard hills. Plus, I will be wearing a ridiculous costume (pics after the race)! But I'm hoping I can at least get down to the low 23s, possibly shaving up to a full minute off my current PR (24:17).

Hope everyone else's training is going well!

Randy

@ strombo1:
It's a bearcat, isn't it? Winston Churchill called it the Black Dog - you just can't relax and turn your back on it. I agree - my self treatment definitely includes ice cream. Dogs like ice cream, right?
A long ride/run always feels great.
Thank you for the kind post! I don't have much accountability at this juncture. I was looking for some here at the very least on the exercise front and I should check in about even just logging my food.



BIKE SEATS! My local bike shop doesn't have much of a selection... I definitely need something more ergonomic. My bum is my limiter by far. I've been able to find some great articles on line and have a direction to run with for selection. My plan is to order 1-2 online and return accordingly... hoping that's not taboo or anything?

Also: aero bars. I'm on a road bike and I'm reading I'm going to very likely need to move my seat if I go with aero bars? Kind of connected to the bike seat discussion because of tilt/support angles changing pressures and such. I wouldn't mind getting used to aero bars sooner than later. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts.
***
My training has been awful. Work has put a mountain on me and I've been pulling long hours. Hoping to get on top of things, get momentum moving forward at work to ease evening workouts (and not taking even more time from the little ones.) Just got to get back in the saddle. Still eyeing the June 9th tri.

Question #2: Swimming

I've swam all my life, but I've never been on a swim team. Plunking down "1100yd" for a workout on the calendar leaves me a bit confused. Is that including warm up and cool down? Main set only? I understand the custom creator tends to be pretty liberal to get you through on race day... would love some insight as to how to break that yardage up.

Thanks!

Swim: 3h 54m 07s - 10900 Yd
Bike: 6h 47m 33s - 135.9 Mi
Run: 13h 10m 27s - 89.36 M

Increased in all 3 disciplines last month. Kinda slacking off already in March. This training i’m at leaves me absolutely beat at the end of the day. No motivation or energy to do anything after class. Tomorrow I have half a day of class followed by a days drive home. So nothing will happen tomorrow either. Hopefully Saturday I can get a long run in and jump back on the wagon. A little rest like this might turn out to be a good thing.

March I have my 8k 5k Irish double race on the 18th. Likely take it somewhat easy the week before the race. Expect my numbers to be about the same, maybe slightly lower this month just because of my slow start to the month.

Scott

@Scott, @ Randy - February numbers look great!

For me:
January
Swim - 0
Bike - 405.1 miles
Run - 86.2 miles

February
Swim -2250 m
Bike - 358 miles
Run - 11.7 miles

Between getting sick at the beginning of the month and trying to give my achilles issues some time to rest I really slacked on running. Swim was definitely a lot less than planned but getting back into the groove on it.

March Goals
Swim - 5000m per week (minimum 3000m per week)
Bike - 120 miles per week
Run - 15 miles per week

70.3 Florida is coming up on April 8th. I am no where close to where I should be on the run but that is about all I can handle and still keep the achilles issues in check. Just staying focused on doing what I can and getting to race day healthy.


Edited by billeckert 2018-03-02 5:18 PM

Keep working on that training. June 9th will sneak up on you faster than you think. I have a general plan but I I like to plan my week on Sunday nights. I look at my work schedule and try to figure out how to best work my training for that week. Then Monday happens and everything changes, but at least I have a plan and can make adjustments on a daily basis if needed. Just keep trying to get something done every day, even it is a 30 minute walk. It's all work that adds up over time.

Bike saddle: Always an issue trying to find comfort on the bike. I will say that a lot of that really comes down to spending time in the saddle. You just gotta put in some time to toughen up your butt and get it used to being on that seat. I always struggle as I start to go longer each year with getting used to it. As I build up the butt endurance, it always amazes me how much longer it takes before I get really uncomfortable.

I have been riding on an ISM Road saddle. It has worked great for me. I really like the shorter nose on this saddle. I bought an ISM PR 3.0 saddle at the end of last year. It has a little more cushion than the road saddle. I really like it. I also have heard a lot of good things about Cobb saddles. This really comes down to finding something that fits you and that you are comfortable with. There are a lot of great videos on youtube about saddle selection. This is one of my favorites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEIg6Pv-0Vw&t=354s

Aero Bars: I have a road bike with aero bars. They definitely take some getting used to. For me, I basically use them to give me a different position to ride in. I got pretty comfortable on them last year and was glad I did for IM Louisville. Had a lot of head winds that day and was glad to be able to tuck in a little more. In reality, they put me in just about the same position as riding on the drops. The only real difference is that my elbows are more tucked in on the aerobars.

I would say that you may not necessarily need aero bars. It really depends on how you ride and what your goals are. I had a couple of friends that got some thinking they would use them and they took them back off pretty quick. You have to remember that you have no brakes on the aero bars and that can make some people very uncomfortable. I also cannot shift on mine. This is really more inconvenient than uncomfortable. I have worked out my technique to change gears so it really does not bother me any more. Like I said I use them more as a place to rest my body in a little different position. You will have to adjust your seat some if you do get them. I spent a lot of time making small adjustments to find a position that works for me.

What type of seat is everyone else riding?
Does anyone else use clip on aero bars on a road bike?
How do you like the aero position, especially for extended lengths of time?
If you have a tri bike, how do you like it vs. a road bike?

I would be focused on whatever your distance is for your races this year. If you can swim continuously that distance comfortably that is great. Then work on speed. If not then work on just building up the distance that you can swim continuously. You can also work swim speed when increasing distance. For speed, do repeats of 25's, 50's or 100's with a short rest interval in between. You should be able to do the interval with good form. In other words, it is better to do 20 x 25 with good form as opposed to 10 x 50 where your form falls apart. The rest interval should be just long enough so that you can do the next repeat with good form. So your rest interval may need to be longer as you first start training with intervals and then get shorter as you build fitness.

So here is how I would interpret "1100yd" workout:

Warmup 100 yds. (I typically warm up with 200 now)
MS - 1000yds, either continuous swim or intervals
Cool down 100 yds. (Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't)

Anyone else have thoughts or input?


Edited by billeckert 2018-03-02 11:46 AM

Had a good ride and run today. Looking forward to this weekend.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Made it back home Friday night. Saturday I planned on getting a bike ride in of some sort, but it turned out to be a family day which is fine. Also had a case of the didn’t feel like its, but kinda felt that family was a bit more important that a workout. I did get out for a nice long run today. Made it 10 miles and somehow the second 5 miles faster than the first 5. Didn’t feel like I was running faster but i’ll Take it. Will do something rather light tomorrow to recover from todays run. Hope everyone had a great weekend

Scott