Team No DNF - FULL (Page 5)

w00t!!! now THAT's what I'm talking about!! Nicely done!!

Oh, and thanks for the kind words everyone. I'm a bit nervous about this as it's my first time mentoring. :D

You guys just work out, and let me blather on, and it'll all be good.

John

Ok, I hemmed and I hawed, and then I bit the bullet and ordered an Xterra Vortex3 sleeveless wetsuit online. I figured for $99, I couldn't go wrong. Hopefully it will all be good!

Let us know how it works for you!

John

Just took a quick scan through all your logs, and you guys are doing great!! I see a few people have gotten some workouts in already that they may have skipped otherwise, great job!

A couple of you have races coming up, we expect race reports when you get finished!!

John

Personally I use a 3-4 beat kick, about one kick per arm pull. It's not very wide, it's mostly to keep me elevated and stable in the water. Experiment with it to see what feels best for you (Good advice in almost any sport)

One of the drills I use is to have swimmers sit on the steps leading into the pool, so that the tops of the legs are a couple of inches below the surface. Kick, keeping toes pointed and legs fairly straight. (There will be a little natural knee bend, you don't want to "lock" your knees). Kick comes from the hip flexors.

What you want to achieve is a "boiling" motion without bubbles in the area of the top of your foot. Bubbles mean your foot is breaking the surface of the water, which isn't great in the drill. Do this for 1-3 minutes, 3-5 times with some rest in between.

One thing to look at is the toes. The toes and the top of the foot should ideally form one plane extending from the shin, so that if you lifted your leg straight up, they would all break the surface together. If your toes come up first, you may need some work on ankle flexibility.

John

Edited by tkd.teacher 2009-04-15 2:34 PM

I was kind of under the impression that you wanted to keep your kicking to a minimum or very little at all, and that most of the swim propulsion was from the arms.  Only kick to keep your balance in the water.  All of my swimming I've done to this point, I've tried not to kick, or at least minimize it.  I understand that there is no need for full kicks like if swimming the 100 in a race because this would zap your energy and overwork the legs.

Kevin

True, but there is a vast difference between the kicking for a 100m sprint and not kicking at all. Most high level distance swimmers will utilize a 2-6 beat kick for the majority of the distance. The problem with not kicking at all, is that it's easy to get off balance, and/or start to lose body position as the arms tire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3IWUwFE_20

That is a BEAUTIFUL example of the kicks and what they should look like. In that clip, the swimmer closer to the top is using pretty much a 4 beat kick (4 kicks per 2 arm pulls), and the lower (smaller) swimmer in the vid is using a 2 beat crossover (named because his ankles come together and cross). (It's Prulokov and Davies, (sp?) just for reference)

You tube is an absolutely stupendous reference, especially if you search for "1500m Olympic Swimming" "Ian Thorpe", "Grant Hackett", etc. because you have underwater cameras that travel with the swimmers, and you can get some absolutely gorgeous slow motion vids of what a high elbow catch looks like, swimming over your anchored hand, body position, etc etc. I wish we had had something like that when I was swimming competitively, or even when I was coaching. There's even quite a few vids for teaching purposes as well.

edited to add: Here's a bit of an oddity, with Kieran Perkins. He kicks into and out of the walls, and the middle portion just lets his legs drag. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_26oohYp96c

John

Edited by tkd.teacher 2009-04-15 3:46 PM

Started reading The Triathletes Training Bible yesterday. Really good so far.

John, thanks for the links to the swimming. I used to love watching those guys in Australia.

Fi

John,

Thanks for the links.  I spent some time on You Tube last night watching various videos.  That one with Kieran Perkins was truly impressive.  They make it look so effortless.

Sports in general, it's really really easy to overdo it. Listen to your body, and if it tells you that you need a day off, take it! Especially in endurance sports, the tendency is to do too much too fast, which eventually leads to burnout, injury or both.

One of the best analogies I ever got was from Mr. Friedman, my 6th grade science teacher. GREAT guy, funny as all get out!

Everything you do can be compared to a wall. Every bit of homework, or workout, or whatever is a brick. As you learn more and more, the wall of bricks gets higher. But, if you neglect some of the basics, that section of the wall is weaker, and will eventually fall down some because those base bricks are missing.

Since most of you are new to triathlon, and possibly new to endurance training in general, this concept also applies. It's MUCH better to get in 15-20 minutes a day, 5 or 6 days a week and slowly increase time (5-10% volume a month is a good rate), until you have a pretty solid base.

You hear people talking about interval training, hill repeats, speed session, etc. If you are new to endurance sports, a sig line I've seen sums it up pretty well - "Speed training is the icing on the cake, and you ain't got a cake yet." Spend the time, build your base for a while THEN you can add the bigger bricks of speed training, interval, single legged cycling, all of that.

You might look at some logs and see some fairly prodigious times and sessions being put in, but with very few exceptions, most of those people have years of base and experience. Just as an example, I put in some decent amount of time, and I've been doing doubles almost every day this month. But, I was a competitive swimmer for 17 years, ran x-country from jr. high through college, raced bikes in college and used to do 2-3 week tours (80-100 miles/day) cycling with my dad. All of that base allows me to get to a higher mileage and intensity total rather fast.

You will get there, too! If this is your first season, take the time to have fun, enjoy the race, learn HOW to race and what it feels like, and keep building your base. Pretty soon you'll be throwing down bricks like they were nothing, and getting ready to rock the podium! Keep it steady, build in a reasonable progression, and enjoy every step of the journey while you build your walls!

John

Great question. Interested to hear the answer.

I went to buy shoes today (bike) and the one store I could get to before closing only had one pair to try and they were a bit too roomy. So will go to another store tomorrow night and try there.
Did get some Tri shorts - now that's a motivation to loose weight. Strongly recommend it.
And some googles - I think I was wearing my kids before - they really leaked and this morning was the last straw.
Had a good swim this morning though and yoga tonight. Will get a run in in the morning. Spin Sat and another run Sunday.

I don't know if there is a correct technique or not. What I usually do is when I get to the point where the downhill is starting to level out, I'll either shift to the largest cog in the back, or shift to the small in the front, and shift the rear to compensate. I usually end up kind of "spinning" to match speed, and then try to maintain cadence going up the hill.

Most modern groups will handle shifting under load, so don't be afraid to shift down as needed going up the hill.

you can also do a quick shift from the BCR to the SCR and shift a lot of gears in the back, indexed shifting is a great thing. :D

John

I've been getting a lot of gear online and just hoping that the sizing charts are accurate! In addition to my wetsuit, I have some cycling shoes and a trisuit coming in the mail. I wish I could get out to stores myself to browse and try things on, but it's way too hard with a 2 year old and almost 4 month old. I could go when hubby come home from work, but that's when I train.

I am going to Bikesport Michigan when my wetsuit comes in though! I had it shipped to a UPS Store in Dearborn just so I would have to cross the border and have an excuse to do some more shopping.

I have plans for a solo bike ride tonight in the beautiful sunshine. Maybe with my new shoes, if they come today! I hope everyone else is getting a lot great training weather too.

I have a question for the runners in the group.  Can someone let me know what types of stretches to do, when to do them (before running, after warm up, after run, etc.) and any other info on stretching? 

I've noticed that a day or two after running, I have some slight discomfort behind my knee caps.  I know this has been discussed earlier, but I would like to make sure it isn't from lack of stretching on my part.

While you're there, see if you can get a chance to pick Tom Demerly's brain. (He's the owner and a very regular poster on ST). He's got a LOT of knowledge about triathlons and cycling! Wish I could go!

John

Day before, pretty much your normal routine. Some people like a day of complete rest, some like to do a light workout. I do best when I really tone down and do minimal workouts for a week or two before a big event.

As far as doing races, the more the better! As long as you don't have a really hard race in the last few weeks before your A race, it's all good. The more races you do, the more familiar everything is, and the less energy you have to spend thinking about various things other than the race. I highly encourage people to do as many races as possible.

As far as what to eat, when to eat (I know you didn't ask, but...), that is a highly personal thing, and you need to experiment with what works for you. If you have a big breakfast and give it back later, you know you can't chow huge on race day. The more you can nail everything down about prerace stuff and the race experience, the better your big races will go because you already know what works and what doesn't.

do be careful not to stack races on top of really hard workout weeks, or stack races too close together would be the only caveat.

John

Stretching is a great thing, and probably one of the most misunderstood. (Oh, and see the PS at the end for the knee discomfort)

Ballistic stretching - The old "bounce" stretching. HORRIBLE. HORRIBLE. NONONONONO!! Every muscle has what is called a "stretch reflex", that causes the muscle to clench up (fire) when stretch receptors in the tendon are activated. When the doc whacks your knee with a hammer and your leg jumps, that's the stretch reflex. The problem with ballistic stretching is you can stretch a little too far, activate that reflex, and now your muscle is trying to clench up and stretch at the same time. REALLY easy to tear a muscle that way. DON'T DO BALLISTIC!!

Dynamic stretching - Active motion stretching. This is done before a workout usually. Swinging your arms in progressively wider circles, knee kicks that get progressively higher, etc. These are all done to get the muscles warm and more blood flowing through them before you start a workout, so that you aren't starting "cold", which is another good way to tear something.

Static stretching - This is the traditional "stretching" that everyone thinks of. This should be done right after any warmdown you do for a workout. Your muscles are still loose and warm, and pliable. I'll detail this below. Generally you hold each stretch for 15-30 seconds, relax, and repeat.

PNF (Proprioceptive Neuromuscular Facilitation) stretching - very strenuous, advanced stretching. Usually done once, MAYBE twice a week, as it is very strenuous. Unless you're trying to get side splits or something for another requirement (Such as martial arts), don't even worry about this.

Ok, now to static stretching. I am a firm believer in stretching, and not just because I was in martial arts. Loose, flexible muscles are less prone to injury and (imho) can produce better quality workouts. I stretch after every run and bike, sometimes after swimming.

Hamstrings - Feet together, bend at the waist, keep your back flat, touch your toes. As you get more advance, you can let your back start to round and bring your chin to your knees. You should feel this stretch in the mid to low back of your thigh area. I also alternate by putting my right foot in front and then my left foot in front (feet crossed) and stretching it again.

Quads - Hold on to something with one hand. Use the other hand to pick your foot up and pull it "behind" you, so that your heel comes up to your butt. Your upper leg should be pointing pretty much straight up and down, like you were standing on it. You'll feel this across the front of your leg. As you get more flexible, you may need to start pulling your entire upper leg back a bit.

Hurdlers stretch - Again, this has changed. Sit on the ground with your feet in front of you. Bring one leg in, and plant the sole of your foot against the inner thigh of your other leg. Lean out (looking up, back straight), and try to grab your toes. Then lean out over the bent knee. The old hurdlers stretch places a lot of strain on the knee.

Calf stretch - You'll feel this through the calf, and the back of the knee. Stand a couple feet from a wall. Plant one foot, let the other foot just kind of touch for balance. Keeping the leg straight and the planted foot flat on the ground, lean into the wall. If you can't feel a stretch, relax and move your plant foot a bit further away from the wall. For a slightly more intense stretch, you can kind of "push" your knee on the same leg towards the wall a little bit.

Shin stretch - This will help IMMENSELY if you have a poor kick, as it makes your foot more flexible and able to point. Get on all fours, with the tops of your feet flat on the floor. Start to sit back on your feet, until you feel the stretch through the top of the foot/ankle. If you get to the point where you're completely flat and no stretch, you can start to put a towel, small pillow, etc. under your knees to get more stretch.

Inner hamstrings - Move your feet out wide, but keep them still pointing forward. Lean forward, keeping the back straight. You'll feel this through the inner groin area. If you need more stretch, move your legs wider, cross your arms, and try to get your elbows to touch. If you can do side splits already, I hate you.

Abs stretch - Lay on your stomach. Put your hands in a pushup position, and push just your upper body up (arch your back), keeping your pelvis on the floor. Be careful with this if you have any back problems.

Spinal extensors stretch (Lower back) - In the shin stretch position, bend forward and curl your hands around your knees, then kind of "push" your lower back out.

I won't go into any upper body/arm stretching, as I need to do some research. All of my swim stretches for the upper body I guess are now "bad" for you, so I need to find some alternatives.

If you want a ton of stretches with pics, etc. just google "martial arts stretches" and you get some great pics.

One final precaution - Stretching done badly, or too aggressively, can cause just as much injury as falling off your bike, rolling your ankle, etc. Take the stretch to where you "feel" the stretch a bit, then just a teensy bit further. It shouldn't hurt, but it shouldn't feel comfortable either.

Sorry if this was a long post, but it was a great question!

John

PS. The tendons for the hamstrings, as well as the calf muscles, both cross the area behind the knee. If you put your hand on the back of your knee while sitting, and then go to stand up, the two "ropy" things you feel tense up are some of the tendons attaching the hamstrings. The calf tendons are a little deeper. What you are probably feeling is a bit of inflammation in the area from the tendons "rubbing" a bit more than they are used to in their protective covering. If the pain doesn't feel like it's "buried" in the middle, inside part of the knee, then it's either muscular or tendon, and can be treated with cold packs and anti inflammatories (ibuprofen, etc.). Stretching will also help. If the pain DOES feel like it's in the "middle" of the knee, that's where the ligaments are, and should be treated more cautiously, as in get a doc to check them out if it persists.

Edited to add: I just saw you said the pain was behind the kneecap. The tendon that surround the kneecap is the one that anchors a lot of the quads. If you are getting knee pain there, you may have a bad setup on the bike that is placing stress on the knee, or your shoes may need replacing. Ice, ibuprofen, stretching will all help.

One final note - Ligaments are used in the body to connect bone to bone. Tendons connect muscle to bone. Tendons are somewhat elastic, ligaments are not.

Edited by tkd.teacher 2009-04-17 10:50 AM

Ok, my first real newb mistake became obvious today when my brand new Shimano carbon bike shoes came in the mail.

My grandfather had given and installed for me some dual-sided pedals for my bike. One side is for regular shoes and the other side has SPD clips. He told me that SPD was the standard clip now, etc, etc, the 'S' actually stood for Shimano, yadda yadda. So when I ordered my shoes, I assumed that since they were Shimano, they would be compatible.

Well, they are three-bolt cleats and I spent a good five minutes just staring at them and trying to make them clip into the SPDs before I realized they were just wrong. I bought the shoes online and returning them would be a giant pain in the . I like the dual-sided pedals, plus I like that they were free. Is there some sort of plate I can install on the SPD pedals to make the three-bolt cleats work? Or do I have to choose between my shoes and my pedals?

I agree with John's advice on stretching. The only thing I would add is to consider making stretching a regular and integral part of your training. I practice yoga, but even your own routine at home will see huge improvements in flexibility and endurance if you make it a habit and not just something you do before/after runs.

I'm not familiar with SPD, and there are a few different versions.

http://www.bikepro.com/products/pedals/shimspd.html

Which of those look like your pedals?

John