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Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL (Page 5)
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 2010-01-18 12:16 PM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran  253   Sarasota FL |  Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULLThe swim, my favorite part, will be fun to dissect here in our forum. |
| 2010-01-18 7:48 PM in reply to: #2558725 |
| Regular 51 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Steve, did my swim today... to be honest this is the first time I have ever timed myself swimming. Last year just starting out I was focused on just completing the races. With that said the information you requested follows.. 1. Go swim 100y as fast as you can. Record that time. 2.05 2. After panting for 30sec or less, swim another 100y at a pace you think you could go all day with. Record that time. swam several hundred yards average approx 2.40, fastest 2.34 longest 2.43 3. Are you going to train once or twice per week? Will swim twice per week 4. What is your strength in swimming? 5. (You knew it was coming...) What is your weakness/hardest part of swimming for you? sighting and I only breath on right side. I got the TI swim DVD Easy Freestyle and I've been trying to use it some. Thanks again for you help! |
| 2010-01-19 6:20 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran 253 Sarasota FL | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Jack- Man, I love this stuff. OK, so we're looking at a worst case scenario of swimming 1640y @ 2:30min/100y = 41min of continuous swimming. But if we get you to 2min/100y, it's 33min. Your race is May 15th. Estimating training Feb, March, Apr at 4 weeks each = 12 week plan. You'll have a 2-4 weeks after this to fine tune pre-race. Of the twelve weeks, I'd recommend the first 8 focused on form, and the last 4 on endurance/speed. And slowly throughout, build length from 400y to 1600y. I'm also recommending doing the same basic workout both days each week, so if you miss one, you still accomplish the lesson for the week. Rough Outline (Where you do the same workout twice per week): Technique 1 800y Bilateral Breathing 200 x 4 Bilateral Breathing, 2 800y 4th stroke breathing 200y Bilateral Breathing, 200y x 3 4th Stroke Breathing 3 1000y Arm Path 200y Swim, 400y x 2 Arm Path focus 4 1000y Leg Path 200y Swim, 400y x 2 Leg Path focus 5 1200y Gliding 400y Swim, 200y Gliding, 200y Swim, 400y Gliding 6 1200y Sighting 400y Gliding, 100y x 4 Sighting, 200y Swim 7 1200y Gliding 400y Swim, 800y Gliding 8 1200y Wrap Up 100y Gliding, 400y x 2 Swim, 100y Sighting, 200y Swim Speed 9 1200y 800y Swim, 400y Swim 10 1400y 600y Swim, 400y x 2 Swim 11 1600y 800y x 2 Swim 12 2000y 1000y x 2 Swim Drill Philosophy/Description next up. Edited by EvenOlder 2010-01-19 6:58 PM |
| 2010-01-19 6:31 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran 253 Sarasota FL | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Jack: Philosophy Train Like You Race/Race Like You Train In triathlons, you need to swim efficiently and steadily while preserving your legs for the bike and run. They are long, continuous swims, so I recommend training with long, continuous swimming. Until the speed portion of your training, you should simply go at a comfortable slow pace, focusing on the skill you're trying to improve. In fact, focus on slowing down, for the first month or two. Try to not splash water. I've set you up where you complete the full listed workout once per week. The other workout should probably be a shorter version, just listen to your body, you'll know what to focus on. OK, drill info to follow when I get time tonight. Oh, and anyone who has other ideas to contribute/critique mine - jump in now! Edited by EvenOlder 2010-01-19 6:34 AM |
| 2010-01-19 7:37 AM in reply to: #2621059 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Wow, that looks great. My only comment would be that 400y is a very short swim session. Jack, if you are comfortable enough to do it, I would extend the early ones with easy laps so that you feel like you got a workout. Aside from that, I think the progression is OK. In general, I am a firm believer that you have to get in a base of fitness using regular steady training before you start working on sprinting and more advanced techniques. I think you can vary from this if you have a coach, but for self coaching, slow and easy seems to work and then you can get fancy. |
| 2010-01-19 7:42 AM in reply to: #2621059 |
Expert 617 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Hmm... I would say to throw in some interval stuff (25's, 50's, 75's, 100's, you can keep it simple by using timed rest vs. timed intervals). That really helps improve endurance (probably more so than straight, slow swimming). The interval stuff is also easier to get started with and can break up the monotony. Maybe set up the second workout each week to be interval based. Also, while you will race with minimal kicking, it isn't a bad idea to train with some kicking (not all the time as you need to get used to swimming with minimal kicking, which is what those long swims are good for) as kicking saps your energy faster and, again, can help you improve your endurance while training. |
| 2010-01-19 9:45 AM in reply to: #2621147 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Do they have to be fast intervals??? Nopthing like panting in the pool. Brings back memories of swim team as a child. Did I mention I hate kickboards? Probably becuase, as Katie said, kicking saps my energy. |
| 2010-01-19 10:24 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran 253 Sarasota FL | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Eli's suggestion of adding laps- All training must be modified by who is doing it. In this case, Jack is a 56y/o man running somewhere around 240lbs, dealing with diabetes. He shouldn't push himself too crazy hard, but focus on small steady gains. If he ever finishes a workout and feels like it wasn't enough, of course he'll add to it, but shouldn't feel like it wasn't a good workout if he doesn't. Katie's suggestion of intervals- I'd say intervals make sense once Jack can hold a steady 2:00min/100y pace. Until then, he needs to be feeling his form and learning how to glide through the water. Otherwise, short distances favor strength, and can prevent that learning process. I would guess Jack will be ready, as Katie suggests, for intervals at the second workout per week after his 6th week, but we'll see. EDIT: So Jack apparently is starting with the endurance for the 1600y continuous, so intervals ARE the thing for developing the strength to go faster. Time to start over with the plan. Edited by EvenOlder 2010-01-19 11:47 AM |
| 2010-01-19 10:33 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran 253 Sarasota FL | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL OK, Bilateral Breathing! Breathing on both sides is a great way to introduce good form to swimmers. It helps someone learn the hip snap, helps them swim straight, enables someone to deal with waves or nearby swimmers. There are many ways to breathe on both sides when training. Everyone develops a preference, so figure out what works for you. When Breathing every stroke: 1. Simple alternating: Take a breath on one side, then the other, etc. Hardest to start with, but helps with form the most. 2. Alternate sides per lap: Breathe left for one lap, breath right the next lap, repeat. Easiest to learn bilateral breathing, helps for counting laps (left side=odd numbers, right side=even numbers). There are other patterns once you get to breathing less, but that comes later. Don't forget to exhale when your face is in the water, so you can immediately inhale when it's out. Steve |
| 2010-01-19 11:13 AM in reply to: #2621636 |
| Regular 51 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL You Guys are great, just getting a chance today to catch up on the replies. I can swim the 1600 yds now at the pace I posted yesterday approx 2.40 but an improvement to around 2 min would be great. I did count my strokes in the pool yesterday and it was 13 no pushing off at turn arounds and no flip turns. I guess I will start with the breathing first? I will still need some help understanding the work outs but I'm sure that will come. Thanks again all, Man this is great I'm ending up with 3 personal coaches. Katie, My wife and I were up your way yesterday.. I visted all 3 sports, performance bike, and REI. First time to performance and all 3 sports but nice stores, I go to REI as often as possibe I do several backpacking trips a year. |
| 2010-01-19 11:43 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran 253 Sarasota FL | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Wow, that stroke count is great. I'm 12-13 myself in a 25y pool. So maybe I completely misunderstood your starting place. Is your pool a 25yard or 25meter or something else? Lets catch up after a week of bilateral breathing practice. Edited by EvenOlder 2010-01-19 11:44 AM |
| 2010-01-19 2:15 PM in reply to: #2621837 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL 13 strokes? What am I doing wrong? I swim 1:45/100 for long distances and can eke our a 1:10/100 for a 100 alone. I seem to do 17 or more. I think I would drown if I tried 13. |
| 2010-01-19 3:10 PM in reply to: #2622350 |
Expert 617 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL It's in the glide. Have you ever done the swimming drill where you take one stroke, kick 6 times ( I think it is six but don't really remember), and then take another stroke? The drill sucks because it feels super odd but that is what that drill is supposed to help with. You should be taking your stroke, turning your hips and reaching a little bit further (that is where the glide comes in). People with heavy legs sometimes have a hard time with this as it is hard to "hesitate" when you feel like you are sinking. But, if you use that swimming drill it may help you get over that sinking feeling and at least work a little glide into it. |
| 2010-01-19 4:54 PM in reply to: #2558725 |
| Regular 51 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL My scheduled has me swimming tomorrow. I will start rotating my breathing then. Yes... the pool I'm in now is 25yds. will start swimming in the outdoor pool when spring gets here it's 50 meters. |
| 2010-01-19 6:11 PM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran 253 Sarasota FL | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Jack- Lucky to have a 50m pool. I was counting every arm stroke, not just one side. Which makes sense considering our time differences. I'll redo the rough plan now that I know your endurance is already good. I think you should simply focus on getting smooth form, great that you're gonna commit to learning to breathe bilaterally. The lesson progression will build on itself- you'll breath bilaterally from here on in. steve |
| 2010-01-19 6:17 PM in reply to: #2558725 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Heavy Legs...that would describe me. I look like a fireplug on bottom and pipe cleaner arms on top. OK, I will try to glide more next time I swim. I do drills where I try to extend reach, as well as the one where you wait almost till the other arm is going in before you pull. I count each arm entering the water. Is that right? Do you think that gliding more would make me faster? I do tend to "muscle" through the water, but don't feel like I am windmilling too much. And I have pretty good endurance. I can swim a couple of miles without a problem. |
| 2010-01-19 7:00 PM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran 253 Sarasota FL | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Just follow along with Jack, Katie will keep me in line, and we'll get everyone flying in the water. You have to start at the beginning, and build one skill on the other. It took me all this past year to get right, and I'm still developing my head position. Katie, how many years did it take before your pretty stroke was fully developed? |
| 2010-01-20 7:51 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL So, speaking of swimming, I watched some of the total immersion videos and read some of the threads about it. I have to say, I like the idea of spending less energy in the pool. I am sure I am going to look funny, but I am going to try some of the techniques, especially the ones relating to body position and relaxing the arms. I am thinking this might be how I can excuse a purchase of an camera that can go underwater. Which of course leads to the idea that triathlon is probably the best sport around for rationalizing purchases. |
| 2010-01-20 8:08 AM in reply to: #2623556 |
Expert 617 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Seriously, triathlons can justify just about any purchase. Everything I asked for at Christmas was something somehow related to triathlons. |
| 2010-01-20 8:44 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
Expert 617 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL So I just had a pretty significant change in goals for this season. I will still be trying to accomplish the former goals but now have a new one. Finish Ironman Louisville (August 29th) I finally gave into peer pressure since I know about 8 people that are competing in it this year. It is a hilly and hot course so I probably could have picked an easier one but misery loves company. |
| 2010-01-20 9:21 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
Veteran 253 Sarasota FL | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Katie- That is FREAKIN' AWESOME! 7 months of training till the end of august - I'll be watching your logs. steve Edited by EvenOlder 2010-01-20 9:22 AM |
| 2010-01-20 10:55 AM in reply to: #2623691 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL crazyalaskian - Finish Ironman Louisville (August 29th) I finally gave into peer pressure since I know about 8 people that are competing in it this year. It is a hilly and hot course so I probably could have picked an easier one but misery loves company. NICE!! I was thinking about signing up, but I am going to wait and focus on Cozumel. Need to stay focused...must not register....give me strength.....sell my kidneys for money...... |
| 2010-01-20 11:08 AM in reply to: #2558725 |
| Regular 51 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Katie that's great!!! I'll be interested to see how that goes as well!! |
| 2010-01-20 12:07 PM in reply to: #2624110 |
Member 57 Kings Mountain, NC | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL All this swimming talk has convienced me to learn how to breath bilaterially. I have put it off for a long time but with all the great support in this group this seems like the perfect time!!!!!! |
| 2010-01-20 12:45 PM in reply to: #2558725 |
Expert 617 | Subject: RE: Eliwashere's Group-Ready to GO!-FULL Eli, No reason to suffer through more than one full Ironman in the same year. Cozumel sounds nice. I needed one I could drive to so the costs wouldn't get out of control too quickly. The training program for the full is 20 weeks long and since I have a couple of races planned, I'm going to extend it out a little to make up for those "rest" weeks. It is going to be a mess to personalize a plan as much as I will need to but I think mapping everything out will be kind of fun....like a puzzle. Oh and on the bilateral breathing, I actually don't do but if the course necessitates it at any point, I can do it. It is kind of funny that in practice I probably only breathe on my left side twice per lap (my second stroke off of the wall because you aren't supposed to take a breath on your first stroke when you are swimming competitively). However, I still practiced it enough over the years to be comfortable with it. And during triathlons, there are definitely plenty of times when it is necessary to breathe on the other side. It helps in being able to prevent a breath of water. |
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